Let us rest from map wide metas

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Substance E.4852 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:I don't want a whole map that depends on a meta to remain relevant.Why do people go to Dragon's Stand? For the meta, not much else.Will people abandon Drizzlewood with the new chapter or when a new expansion is released?

How else would you make a map remain relevant and not be mostly abandoned like all of the other maps without metas?

If Anet stopped designing Overworld content that required large groups to complete then it wouldn't be an issue. All these meta maps have their own currencies and yet Anet put them either in harvest nodes or behind group content.

Please read the post I had quoted. This isn't about meta completion. Reducing the number of players needed for metas wouldn't make older maps any more relevant once players have already obtained the rewards.

People will do mini dungeons like the raven puzzles in Bjora or Grothmar events if you make them fun and give them decent rewards for completion. ESPECIALLY if you tune said rewards to the difficulty of doing content that requires personal effort instead of being carried by a map zerg

Which is what I had said in a previous post. You can make something fun but players won't generally do it enough times compared to if it were rewarding. The moment you make something rewarding to be worth doing, players farm the kitten out of it until it's no longer worth doing.

You only even think of "abandoned map" a framing because meta maps are unplayable without a certain number of people while vanilla launch maps have events, JP's, mini dungeons, and the occasional instant spawn world boss to kill and they're still enjoyable for what they are years later

Meta maps are maps with a series of events. Kind of like how the Orr metas are as well as those on some of the other core maps. You also do not know how much the events scale down. You're not the only one as I'm fairly sure the majority of the playerbase is like this too because all they're used to is zerging content. They don't know any different so believe that they must have the same numbers.

[kharmin.7683]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Substance E.4852" said:People will do mini dungeons like the raven puzzles in Bjora or Grothmar events if you make them fun and give them decent rewards for completion. ESPECIALLY if you tune said rewards to the difficulty of doing content that requires personal effort instead of being carried by a map zerg

Which is what I had said in a previous post. You can make something fun but players won't generally do it enough times compared to if it were rewarding. The moment you make something rewarding to be worth doing, players farm the kitten out of it until it's no longer worth doing.One also has to consider what rewards are "decent". This is highly subjective. Not everyone will agree on what makes a reward decent.

[Svarty.8019]

Come on PvE players. You're getting over 99% of developer attention. Make up your minds what you want so they can split some time onto other aspects of the game.

[coso.9173]

@Svarty.8019 said:Come on PvE players. You're getting over 99% of developer attention. Make up your minds what you want so they can split some time onto other aspects of the game.

Mainly because 99% are playing pve probably.

[keenedge.9675]

@Bast.7253 said:Drizzlewood is exhausting but one issue for me is the champion train awkwardly in the middle, and that's mainly because it's just not exciting and rather annoying in general. You have to port and speed to these champions, but half the time you're midair on a skyscale and have to land to be able to port. You get there and fight this bounty boss, loot some chests, and then have to speed to the next one.... like 15 times?

Of course you can choose to just forgo them and wait for the next part of the meta to start. The first part of the meta also still feels like it takes forever to me and still feels like there's a lot of downtime in between capturing bases.

Nice summary.

Down side to the top-half of DW, the trash mobs are pure trash, no experience and no loot. (remember kourna?)

As said elsewhere, no one is asking for content to be removed or changed. Just a map with a little less continuous participation required.

BTW, Grothmar was too laid back. Bjorra was nice because of the split and you could do the 2nd half without doing the 1st half in the same session.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Substance E.4852" said:People will do mini dungeons like the raven puzzles in Bjora or Grothmar events if you make them fun and give them decent rewards for completion. ESPECIALLY if you tune said rewards to the difficulty of doing content that requires personal effort instead of being carried by a map zerg

Which is what I had said in a previous post. You can make something fun but players won't generally do it enough times compared to if it were rewarding. The moment you make something rewarding to be worth doing, players farm the kitten out of it until it's no longer worth doing.One also has to consider what rewards are "decent". This is highly subjective. Not everyone will agree on what makes a reward decent.

True but do you see any players consistently doing non-rewarding metas because they find it fun? Decent rewards would be something that has a monetary value.

[aspirine.6852]

I would rather see some maps without map meta's. I know boring but I am getting a bit tired of them. Is that meta on the first frost map in the saga even done anymore?

[HotDelirium.7984]

@coso.9173 said:Full map metas are fun to do, but sometimes it's fun to have some maps that have separate events so you can go and travel around doing them in a more relaxed mood.After doing the metas of the newer maps (or any map with a big one) I get really tired, and I'd like to have some more variety. Seeing all those characters at once doing skills and animation is visually exhausting.Since grothmar we've only got maps with a big meta. Bjora 1 has the blizzard, bjora 2 has a world boss, drizzle wood 1 and 2 have a huge meta too.I don't want to be left with my heart beating fast and hands shaking Everytime I play. Sometimes I miss the simpler events of older maps.I hope in the future we have some more variety of the kind of events we get in maps. Maybe for next episode, since we come from a really huge meta event maps now.

I agree in them changing it up, maybe just a minor meta or even a minor boss and then just a ton of map events. That way the equivalent of a meta is spread out continuously through the events.

[Ayrilana.1396]

What’s the difference between doing a meta map and a map with a bunch of events? You’re still doing events regardless. The former leads to something with more purpose and potentially better rewards.

[coso.9173]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:What’s the difference between doing a meta map and a map with a bunch of events? You’re still doing events regardless. The former leads to something with more purpose and potentially better rewards.

The thing is that in map with metas, as soon as an event finishes, another one starts. And you're basically letting others down and missing a chance for another new reward.In maps with random events it's much easier to chose what events you want to participate or not. And no one is affected by it.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@coso.9173 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:What’s the difference between doing a meta map and a map with a bunch of events? You’re still doing events regardless. The former leads to something with more purpose and potentially better rewards.

The thing is that in map with metas, as soon as an event finishes, another one starts. And you're basically letting others down and missing a chance for another new reward.In maps with random events it's much easier to chose what events you want to participate or not. And no one is affected by it.

You can still do all of that with the new map. You can go to either side and do whatever events that are available at any of the claimed regions. The events also don’t require a large number of players so do them for the most part. You choosing to go off and do something else will have minimal impact.

[coso.9173]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@coso.9173 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:What’s the difference between doing a meta map and a map with a bunch of events? You’re still doing events regardless. The former leads to something with more purpose and potentially better rewards.

The thing is that in map with metas, as soon as an event finishes, another one starts. And you're basically letting others down and missing a chance for another new reward.In maps with random events it's much easier to chose what events you want to participate or not. And no one is affected by it.

You can still do all of that with the new map. You can go to either side and do whatever events that are available at any of the claimed regions. The events also don’t require a large number of players so do them for the most part. You choosing to go off and do something else will have minimal impact.

Also the northern part of the map has zero events till the southern meta is cleared. Which is another issue.

[Game of Bones.8975]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:

Each of these maps have Dailies that help keep them populated. Map Dailies could be added to the rotation when additional maps are introduced.

These maps already have dailies.

Exactly! Those maps have small events that keep people coming back on a regular basis regardless whether there is a meta on the map or not.

Add Drizzlewood (and the rest of LS4 maps)to the Dailies. By adding things in that Daily rotation (farming, JPs, activities Vista Viewers, etc) it would entice players who may have not done the map meta in a while back to that area. "Come for the Daily, stay for the Meta."

It's the same marketing technique restaurants use; get free drinks, desert, or kids under 10 eat free knowing that the caveat is that an adult meal (or two) is also sold.

[jokke.6239]

@Cronospere.8143 said:We asked. They delivered.. Now that they did, you want to change it back.It is never good hehe

Joke aside.Dragon's Stand, Dragonfall and drizzlewood coast are the only full-map meta's where you actually need to participate.. Other than those it doesnt really matter. People have been asking for a map like dragon's stand for ages. So they made dragonfall and now drizzelwood coast.

Some asked .. Even if most, not all did.I'm a returning player from PoF launch, so i'm not all caught up.But I've been asking for non fractal Dungeons and World bosses, and was happy with PoF not being like HoT.Was happy to see we got a new world boss though :D Strike missions look cool too

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Game of Bones.8975 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Game of Bones.8975 said:

Each of these maps have Dailies that help keep them populated. Map Dailies could be added to the rotation when additional maps are introduced.

These maps already have dailies.

Exactly! Those maps have small events that keep people coming back on a regular basis regardless whether there is a meta on the map or not.

Add Drizzlewood (and the rest of LS4 maps)to the Dailies. By adding things in that Daily rotation (farming, JPs, activities Vista Viewers, etc) it would entice players who may have not done the map meta in a while back to that area. "Come for the Daily, stay for the Meta."

It's the same marketing technique restaurants use; get free drinks, desert, or kids under 10 eat free knowing that the caveat is that an adult meal (or two) is also sold.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daily_Living_World_Season_3

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daily_Living_World_Season_4

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daily_Grothmar_Valley

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daily_Bjora_Marches

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daily_Drizzlewood_Coast

[Atomos.7593]

I enjoy doing map metas but I don't like the way the events are designed in Drizzlewood. The events themselves are pretty fun but for most of them to start there must be at least 1 base captured. So if you are in a dead map where no bases have been captured and few players then there are almost no events going on. This makes the map really boring in this situation.

[Substance E.4852]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Meta maps are maps with a series of events. Kind of like how the Orr metas are as well as those on some of the other core maps. You also do not know how much the events scale down. You're not the only one as I'm fairly sure the majority of the playerbase is like this too because all they're used to is zerging content. They don't know any different so believe that they must have the same numbers.

Many of those events are scaled to assume a certain amount of people playing and are thus nearly impossible to complete within the timer, or take so long that people simply don't bother

The only time Ive ever consistently seen group content that was measurably easier/faster to do with fewer people was back when WvW tower/keep lord HP scaling was totally off the rails and 5 people could kill SMC lord faster than 50 which was eventually patched out

[Substance E.4852]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Substance E.4852" said:People will do mini dungeons like the raven puzzles in Bjora or Grothmar events if you make them fun and give them decent rewards for completion. ESPECIALLY if you tune said rewards to the difficulty of doing content that requires personal effort instead of being carried by a map zerg

Which is what I had said in a previous post. You can make something fun but players won't generally do it enough times compared to if it were rewarding. The moment you make something rewarding to be worth doing, players farm the kitten out of it until it's no longer worth doing.One also has to consider what rewards are "decent". This is highly subjective. Not everyone will agree on what makes a reward decent.

Depends on how it's presented. Stuff that can be TP'd will always have a standard gold value that can be measured. Stuff that can't is harder to gauge and also shouldn't be the main focus of content you want people repeating long term.

Fractals and their loot is a good format to follow. It's content specific loot but also done in such a way that there's always a demand for it and can be sold for gold if the player doesn't need to use it.

Even dungeon tokens could be turned into forge fodder weapons if you had no other use for them.