Please give Renegade the Firebrand treatment. Huge AoE covering a point isn't fun to fight

[mrauls.6519]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@mes.4607 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:i would tinker with hp before aoe radius imo

1k hp every spirit

nah dude thats nothing, i'd do 2.5k armor 3k hp. 1k hp is 1 auto from a paladin build and they should be stronger then a mes clone. btw where is the info on the current renegade summons stats? can't find it on wiki.

2.5k-3k i can agree on. maybe prevent them from receiving boons or healing in pvp

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Avatar.3568 said:The problem on renegade is more sevenshot or/and dwarf.You can run celestial while sevenshot does 10k, and with dwarf you are literally immune to cc

Kalla is not the big problem

This is kind of the point of Jalis though, he's slow and meant to be sturdy and hard to move while also being pretty energy hungry. It means you actually have to time your approach with CC unlike Shiro or Glint that break and blind, invert damage, or dodge away. Also, pulsing corruption on the road is free consecutive fear.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@mes.4607 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:i would tinker with hp before aoe radius imo

1k hp every spirit

Drastically reduce energy costs and CD and MAYBE.

[Vancho.8750]

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@mes.4607 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:i would tinker with hp before aoe radius imo

1k hp every spirit

Drastically reduce energy costs and CD and MAYBE.Weapons should get no energy costs while bumping their cooldowns to match other professions, utilities get higher costs to match the shift from weapon energy requirements so Rev gets reverse thief mechanic.@Kuma.1503 The light show on Kalla is not well made, we have fought for years to make people not stand in the fire and now you are telling them that developed instinct is wrong on some cases but not all, big lightshow circles bad don't stay in them is a fine muscle memory to develop.

[Garret.1965]

Nerf Dwarven Battle Training and a lot of our renegade complaints will disappear. The current weakness application this build is capable of is busted.

[mrauls.6519]

It's funny how with every comment we have a new strength of Renegade listed XD

[Kuma.1503]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@mes.4607 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:i would tinker with hp before aoe radius imo

1k hp every spirit

Drastically reduce energy costs and CD and MAYBE.Weapons should get no energy costs while bumping their cooldowns to match other professions, utilities get higher costs to match the shift from weapon energy requirements so Rev gets reverse thief mechanic.@Kuma.1503 The light show on Kalla is not well made, we have fought for years to make people not stand in the fire and now you are telling them that developed instinct is wrong on some cases but not all, big lightshow circles bad don't stay in them is a fine muscle memory to develop.

I agree 100%. I was thinking of putting my graphics tablet to good use and doodling up a particle effect rework for renegade spirits. Giving every spirit a circle is misleading as all heck, and it doesn't help that 3/5 spirits are the exact same shade of orange.

[Dahkeus.8243]

I don't think the size of the AoE is as much the issue as the frequency of the daze is, personally.

[Dark.8093]

I believe that renegade is better to make an affix on pvp. you Go like this on Thursday, and there is an affix of renegade and you understand that the number of tears will be doubled. Are you guys seriously having an exorbitant time getting out of the fire for 8 seconds? You can't capture the point while it's still alive)

[Vancho.8750]

@Dark.8093 said:I believe that renegade is better to make an affix on pvp. you Go like this on Thursday, and there is an affix of renegade and you understand that the number of tears will be doubled. Are you guys seriously having an exorbitant time getting out of the fire for 8 seconds? You can't capture the point while it's still alive)You are not helping your situation 8 seconds is really long time for PVP especially for for fire and forget AoE, the ability to perform action while there is another already running attack is tremendous. To me it is not actually is big of a deal since i play some builds that rely on having more targets to hit, but not many classes have option to

deal with that and the game is not supposed to have 5 team fighters on one team.

[Quadox.7834]

i said it years ago, as soon as renegade is good it will be aids, and here we are. the design of this espec is just bad, along with deadeye.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Quadox.7834 said:i said it years ago, as soon as renegade is good it will be aids, and here we are. the design of this espec is just bad, along with deadeye.In this game, as soon as anything is good, it is aids tbh. Name one good build which isn't/wasn't aids.

[mrauls.6519]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:i said it years ago, as soon as renegade is good it will be aids, and here we are. the design of this espec is just bad, along with deadeye.In this game, as soon as anything is good, it is aids tbh. Name one good build which isn't/wasn't aids.

Every class should be as balanced as dragonhunter ECKS DEE`

[Quadox.7834]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@"Quadox.7834" said:i said it years ago, as soon as renegade is good it will be aids, and here we are. the design of this espec is just bad, along with deadeye.In this game, as soon as anything is good, it is aids tbh. Name one good build which isn't/wasn't aids.

Nah the design of certain especs is just not that conducive to a good pvp experience (probably because they were designed mostly with pve or just "coolness" in mind). For instance, scourge is worse and less fun than reaper even when the latter is stronger (like right now). Deadeye is not meta yet its constant resets are still dumb as fuck. Mirage is not currently meta but being able to dodge in immob and stun is still a terrible idea. Renegade kalla being based around these big glowing persistent aoes that badly clutter up teamfights in a conquest gamemode is another example of this - a bad idea in terms of design.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@mes.4607 said:It's funny how with every comment we have a new strength of Renegade listed XD

I feel like Renegade's problem is mainly too easy of energy management. Either the energy cost needs to go up on some of these skills, or the CDs need to be increased a bit. Right now it cycles through both its offensive & defensive skills too easily and too frequently. I don't believe the skills themselves are inherently too powerful, it's just that they can be constantly spammed with little to no regard for energy management.

[ollbirtan.2915]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@mes.4607 said:It's funny how with every comment we have a new strength of Renegade listed XD

I feel like Renegade's problem is mainly too easy of energy management. Either the energy cost needs to go up on some of these skills, or the CDs need to be increased a bit. Right now it cycles through both its offensive & defensive skills too easily and too frequently. I don't believe the skills themselves are inherently too powerful, it's just that they can be constantly spammed with little to no regard for energy management.

Mmmm....easy energy management? Dude, have you played Renegade seriously in pvp / mats? The energy cost for skills has already been increased greatly. 40 energy for a stunbreak on Jalis / Shiro? Suuuuure that's fine. Which leaves you with 10 energy - enough to AA. Also, you are forced to trait for Charged Mists to give you that extra 25 energy on legend swap when your current energy is below 10%. And lets be honest, this trait is not that easy to proc 100% of the time.So please, stop spreading misinformation and suggesting nerfs based on false claims.

[xXxNikiGoesWildxXx.3678]

As renegade main nowdays, i can say that class is literal turret. I like the way drain works on it, it has its counters and many good players can beat good renegade. However i have to confirm that renegade needs some rework in gameplay. Trait synergy and stuff are really good, i love the way you need to connect multiple spells to do better effect, idea is awesome.Problem is that class is all about sitting in place and that's it(khalla at least).
Shortbow is purely focused over steroid mixed damage, it provides no utility.Also i feel sometime F2,F3,F4 are not fitting the theme.I don't know what to say about summons, from one way i like how those work and from another i feel like it could be done better. Many people complain here about summons having very high hp, they can't consider summons costs energy and can be cced, also summons to work, you have to drop multiple on the ground and that costs all energy you got, so imagine 1 aoe cc hitting those summons... disaster. There is jalis stability field that persists in khalla, which allows summons to not get cced.

I can say from my perspective that renegade is punching bag, if you go tanky on it, it cannot deal massive damage if opponent is smart and if you go for damage you just get bursted by condis or by w/e. I tried multiple variations of stats and effects and i still die to good players.

I just think people have 0 knowledge about renegade and how it works, about its weaknesses...when they face it. I don't think class is OP, can say it is good in current meta. Problem with class is its poor mechanic being literal turret and nothing else.

[Vancho.8750]

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:i said it years ago, as soon as renegade is good it will be aids, and here we are. the design of this espec is just bad, along with deadeye.In this game, as soon as anything is good, it is aids tbh. Name one good build which isn't/wasn't aids.

Nah the design of certain especs is just not that conducive to a good pvp experience (probably because they were designed mostly with pve or just "coolness" in mind). For instance, scourge is worse and less fun than reaper even when the latter is stronger (like right now). Deadeye is not meta yet its constant resets are still dumb as kitten. Mirage is not currently meta but being able to dodge in immob and stun is still a terrible idea. Renegade kalla being based around these big glowing persistent aoes that badly clutter up teamfights in a conquest gamemode is another example of this - a bad idea in terms of design.I think almost all of the PoF specks are terrible for PVP, there wasn't any thought given how they will function in there, just PVE rotation specks with the rule of cool. The specks that came from PoF that work for PVP are Soulbeast and Spellbreaker, both of which seem to be slapped together last minute with old skills. They were OP but they just needed number tuning, the issue with the other specs is that mechanics will always be broken if they are not changed and no amount of number crunching will help. Also it seems that Spellbreaker was designed only with PVP in mind since it doesn't function very well in 'high tier' PVE .

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@mes.4607 said:It's funny how with every comment we have a new strength of Renegade listed XD

I feel like Renegade's problem is mainly too easy of energy management. Either the energy cost needs to go up on some of these skills, or the CDs need to be increased a bit. Right now it cycles through both its offensive & defensive skills too easily and too frequently. I don't believe the skills themselves are inherently too powerful, it's just that they can be constantly spammed with little to no regard for energy management.

Mmmm....easy energy management? Dude, have you played Renegade seriously in pvp / mats? The energy cost for skills has already been increased greatly. 40 energy for a stunbreak on Jalis / Shiro? Suuuuure that's fine. Which leaves you with 10 energy - enough to AA. Also, you are forced to trait for Charged Mists to give you that extra 25 energy on legend swap when your current energy is below 10%. And lets be honest, this trait is not that easy to proc 100% of the time.So please, stop spreading misinformation and suggesting nerfs based on false claims.

Yeah I was play testing it the other day actually.

The energy cycling is twice as lenient and twice as easy as running Power Shiro as example.

And being able to toss a little bit of alacrity in team fights is pretty serious business. Alacrity just by itself as a boon is pretty much worth heals / cleanses / quick buffs / everything as a support function, because it allows your team fight to cycle through their own skills more often.

Renegade has too much man. Holosmith right along with it. They both need to be on the chopping block. I'm starting to see teams in ATs now that look like: Ren / Ren / Holo / Holo / Healbreaker, and that makes me cringe at the game's current state of balance.

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:The energy cycling is twice as lenient and twice as easy as running Power Shiro as example.If by power shiro, you mean power herald then LMAO. HERALD DOESN T HAVE ENERGY MANAGEMENT. This is one of the reasons why it's better than core. You can use all your energy for weapon skills and only double-tap utility when needed. So much for management. With core and renegade at least you need to choose between weapon skills and utility skills. Please don't ever bring herald when talking about energy management on rev.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:And being able to toss a little bit of alacrity in team fights is pretty serious business. Alacrity just by itself as a boon is pretty much worth heals / cleanses / quick buffs / everything as a support function, because it allows your team fight to cycle through their own skills more often.You re making it sound like it s good lol. 6 secs of alacrity is ~1 secs "gained". You have to anticipate 6 seconds ahead if having a skill 1 second earlier is worth it. JUST LMAO.I was playing a build based around alacrity on diviner amulet before feb patch and I could reach ~60% alacrity uptime which is a "gain" of perma ~3 secs ahead. THAT WAS WORTH IT. But 1 sec? Hell no, not even close.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:The energy cycling is twice as lenient and twice as easy as running Power Shiro as example.If by power shiro, you mean power herald then LMAO. HERALD DOESN T HAVE ENERGY MANAGEMENT. This is one of the reasons why it's better than core. You can use all your energy for weapon skills and only double-tap utility when needed. So much for management. With core and renegade at least you need to choose between weapon skills and utility skills. Please don't ever bring herald when talking about energy management on rev.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:And being able to toss a little bit of alacrity in team fights is pretty serious business. Alacrity just by itself as a boon is pretty much worth heals / cleanses / quick buffs / everything as a support function, because it allows your team fight to cycle through their own skills more often.You re making it sound like it s good lol. 6 secs of alacrity is ~1 secs "gained". You have to anticipate 6 seconds ahead if having a skill 1 second earlier is worth it. JUST LMAO.I was playing a build based around alacrity on diviner amulet before feb patch and I could reach ~60% alacrity uptime which is a "gain" of perma ~3 secs ahead. THAT WAS WORTH IT. But 1 sec? Hell no, not even close.

Alac whole number benefit is based on how large the CD is.

1s of Alac isn't doing much for an 8s CD skill. 1s of Alac is doing a lot for say Lich.

[felix.2386]

problem with kalla is that, most AoE doesn't do shit. except the stunbreak that also CC you and cost a lot of energy and elite which has to combine with other skillsalso their AoE is CC able

u have to play it to know that it's not the aoes that's keeping him alive

most skills look like AoE big circle, but it's no where different then utility banner and kalla is rather squishy

[Eugchriss.2046]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:The energy cycling is twice as lenient and twice as easy as running Power Shiro as example.If by power shiro, you mean power herald then LMAO. HERALD DOESN T HAVE ENERGY MANAGEMENT. This is one of the reasons why it's better than core. You can use all your energy for weapon skills and only double-tap utility when needed. So much for management. With core and renegade at least you need to choose between weapon skills and utility skills. Please don't ever bring herald when talking about energy management on rev.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:And being able to toss a little bit of alacrity in team fights is pretty serious business. Alacrity just by itself as a boon is pretty much worth heals / cleanses / quick buffs / everything as a support function, because it allows your team fight to cycle through their own skills more often.You re making it sound like it s good lol. 6 secs of alacrity is ~1 secs "gained". You have to anticipate 6 seconds ahead if having a skill 1 second earlier is worth it. JUST LMAO.I was playing a build based around alacrity on diviner amulet before feb patch and I could reach ~60% alacrity uptime which is a "gain" of perma ~3 secs ahead. THAT WAS WORTH IT. But 1 sec? Hell no, not even close.

Alac whole number benefit is based on how large the CD is.

1s of Alac isn't doing much for an 8s CD skill. 1s of Alac is doing a lot for say Lich.It's quite actually the opposite.1s alacrity on a 8s cd skill is a 12.5% boost. 1s alacrity on a 180s cd skill is a not even 1% boost.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Eugchriss.2046 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:The energy cycling is twice as lenient and twice as easy as running Power Shiro as example.If by power shiro, you mean power herald then LMAO. HERALD DOESN T HAVE ENERGY MANAGEMENT. This is one of the reasons why it's better than core. You can use all your energy for weapon skills and only double-tap utility when needed. So much for management. With core and renegade at least you need to choose between weapon skills and utility skills. Please don't ever bring herald when talking about energy management on rev.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:And being able to toss a little bit of alacrity in team fights is pretty serious business. Alacrity just by itself as a boon is pretty much worth heals / cleanses / quick buffs / everything as a support function, because it allows your team fight to cycle through their own skills more often.You re making it sound like it s good lol. 6 secs of alacrity is ~1 secs "gained". You have to anticipate 6 seconds ahead if having a skill 1 second earlier is worth it. JUST LMAO.I was playing a build based around alacrity on diviner amulet before feb patch and I could reach ~60% alacrity uptime which is a "gain" of perma ~3 secs ahead. THAT WAS WORTH IT. But 1 sec? Hell no, not even close.

Alac whole number benefit is based on how large the CD is.

1s of Alac isn't doing much for an 8s CD skill. 1s of Alac is doing a lot for say Lich.It's quite actually the opposite.1s alacrity on a 8s cd skill is a 12.5% boost. 1s alacrity on a 180s cd skill is a not even 1% boost.

Ah you're right. I didn't realize it worked that way.

Well in that case, a small boost of alac here and there is rather OP for general weapon skills and utilities. It's like having a 10% to 20% reduction in CDs on weapon skills every time a Ren tosses alac to you.

[Clownmug.8357]

Shouldn't the treatment be to make Kalla skills have smaller radius but become ammo-based, untargetable, invincible and not require terrain pathfinding like guardian spirit weapons?