Nades need AoE markers

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

Like Cluster Bomb for thief. Engineer grenades travel way too fast to react to such tiny projectiles without an AoE marker. Since they're basically uncounterable with blinds/aegis because there are multiple projectiles, AoE markers are desperately needed.

[Vancho.8750]

Would be nice if all the attacks didn't look the same, maybe I would like to dodge the chill grenades but im willing to tank the basic attack, too bad there is no fucking large difference between them.

[Avatar.3568]

@Vancho.8750 said:Would be nice if all the attacks didn't look the same, maybe I would like to dodge the chill grenades but im willing to tank the basic attack, too bad there is no kitten large difference between them.

They are white, poison is green, look at the hands than you see it

[Garret.1965]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Like Cluster Bomb for thief. Engineer grenades travel way too fast to react to such tiny projectiles without an AoE marker. Since they're basically uncounterable with blinds/aegis because there are multiple projectiles, AoE markers are desperately needed.Wait... Cluster Bomb is too fast? Is Arcing Arrow from warrior also an issue? Grenades are hardly unavoidable, my dude, and they are in-fact negated by blinds—for whatever reason. Not that I'm directly against giving nades AoE markers, however, but desperately needed? Definitely not.

[anduriell.6280]

Rapid Fire from Ranger could use some kind of marker too, like brighter projectiles. Something like equipping Pharus does so you do not eat the full RF because there are many things going on in the screen and RF does not have any indicator (just the noise)

[Vancho.8750]

@Avatar.3568 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Would be nice if all the attacks didn't look the same, maybe I would like to dodge the chill grenades but im willing to tank the basic attack, too bad there is no kitten large difference between them.

They are white, poison is green, look at the hands than you see itLook at the hands lol, animations on hands on fucking ranged attack is pointless like it is pointless on all other ranged attacks in the game, notice the LARGE DIFFERENCE wording. Minimal Visual indication on strong attacks is stupid, when you have long telegraph attacks in the game that do less then fucking grenades you have an issue. Visibility in the fucking game is terrible for ranged attacks. Hand waving is not good telegraph, having the animation on the attacked area or person is way better.

[Widmo.3186]

@Avatar.3568 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Would be nice if all the attacks didn't look the same, maybe I would like to dodge the chill grenades but im willing to tank the basic attack, too bad there is no kitten large difference between them.

They are white, poison is green, look at the hands than you see it

Elite skill, Prime Light Beam - > super turbo light is gathering, big circle, over 1s cast time (atm 3dmg btw).Utility, Nades - > instant cast, just look at hands loooool.

[Jables.4659]

@Vancho.8750 said:having the animation on the attacked area or person is way better.

Id be in favor of nades being a bit more telegraphed, but I'm generally against an animation on the player due to these animations bugging and staying on the player permanently. A good example of this is the full counter animation on spellbreakers. When it bugs they become far more difficult to fight.

[Swagg.9236]

Could just give them all a 0.5-0.75s delay on the AoE attack. Omit the delay for the flashbang perhaps.

[Vancho.8750]

@Jables.4659 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:having the animation on the attacked area or person is way better.

Id be in favor of nades being a bit more telegraphed, but I'm generally against an animation on the player due to these animations bugging and staying on the player permanently. A good example of this is the full counter animation on spellbreakers. When it bugs they become far more difficult to fight.

How do you get that from what I wrote. Area marker for AoE on the ground.

[phokus.8934]

This is the best idea that has been posted on the pvp forum in quite some time.

[Tharan.9085]

@Vancho.8750 said:Would be nice if all the attacks didn't look the same, maybe I would like to dodge the chill grenades but im willing to tank the basic attack, too bad there is no kitten large difference between them.

It's quite easy to see which one they are throwing

[Vancho.8750]

@Tharan.9085 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:Would be nice if all the attacks didn't look the same, maybe I would like to dodge the chill grenades but im willing to tank the basic attack, too bad there is no kitten large difference between them.

It's quite easy to see which one they are throwingRandom video from youtube how is that a good telegraph at all

, same attack with little bit different paint on it. If it was low impact skill ok, but it isn't.

[Kodama.6453]

I get the feeling that it might be too much clutter. Consider that every skill is throwing 3 grenades at the same time which are randomly distributed in the chosen area. Each grenade would have to get it's own AoE circle.Even worse in case of the grenade barrage, which creates 6 grenades with a single skill.

Also I personally think that it is quite easy to tell what kind of grenade is thrown, especially the chill and poison grenades are really obvious.

[Vancho.8750]

@Kodama.6453 said:I get the feeling that it might be too much clutter. Consider that every skill is throwing 3 grenades at the same time which are randomly distributed in the chosen area. Each grenade would have to get it's own AoE circle.Even worse in case of the grenade barrage, which creates 6 grenades with a single skill.

Also I personally think that it is quite easy to tell what kind of grenade is thrown, especially the chill and poison grenades are really obvious.Well when I play necro I think Spinal shivers is a fine skill with its cast time and sound effects and all, but when someone does it to me I kinda wonder the fuck where that damage came from. Same deal here. Holo is a light show by default and nades get lost in the blaze since they are minimalistic, and being that was OK before, since engi didn't have multiple sources of high damage and people had to worry about one or two things.

[Kodama.6453]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:I get the feeling that it might be too much clutter. Consider that every skill is throwing 3 grenades at the same time which are randomly distributed in the chosen area. Each grenade would have to get it's own AoE circle.Even worse in case of the grenade barrage, which creates 6 grenades with a single skill.

Also I personally think that it is quite easy to tell what kind of grenade is thrown, especially the chill and poison grenades are really obvious.Well when I play necro I think Spinal shivers is a fine skill with its cast time and sound effects and all, but when someone does it to me I kinda wonder the kitten where that damage came from. Same deal here. Holo is a light show by default and nades get lost in the blaze since they are minimalistic, and being that was OK before, since engi didn't have multiple sources of high damage and people had to worry about one or two things.

To be fair, I think the grenades are easier to notice. If there are 3 grenades thrown at me with a bright white animation, then I know what is going on. I think this animation (at least if used at range) is way better than really solely having to rely on the hands animation of spinal shivers, especially since that skill doesn't even create a projectile you can react to to begin with.

[Vancho.8750]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:I get the feeling that it might be too much clutter. Consider that every skill is throwing 3 grenades at the same time which are randomly distributed in the chosen area. Each grenade would have to get it's own AoE circle.Even worse in case of the grenade barrage, which creates 6 grenades with a single skill.

Also I personally think that it is quite easy to tell what kind of grenade is thrown, especially the chill and poison grenades are really obvious.Well when I play necro I think Spinal shivers is a fine skill with its cast time and sound effects and all, but when someone does it to me I kinda wonder the kitten where that damage came from. Same deal here. Holo is a light show by default and nades get lost in the blaze since they are minimalistic, and being that was OK before, since engi didn't have multiple sources of high damage and people had to worry about one or two things.

To be fair, I think the grenades are easier to notice. If there are 3 grenades thrown at me with a bright white animation, then I know what is going on. I think this animation (at least if used at range) is way better than really solely having to rely on the hands animation of spinal shivers, especially since that skill doesn't even create a projectile you can react to to begin with.As I said play something different and you can notice that some stuff is kinda bullshit even though it seems fair, my personal favorite bullshit currently is Lich 1 1 1 .

[Stand The Wall.6987]

just make nade barrage more noticeable with visuals and a noise. no need to clutter the ground with more circles.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@Garret.1965 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Like Cluster Bomb for thief. Engineer grenades travel way too fast to react to such tiny projectiles without an AoE marker. Since they're basically uncounterable with blinds/aegis because there are multiple projectiles, AoE markers are desperately needed.Wait... Cluster Bomb is too fast? Is Arcing Arrow from warrior also an issue? Grenades are hardly unavoidable, my dude, and they

are

in-fact negated by blinds—for whatever reason. Not that I'm directly against giving nades AoE markers, however, but desperately needed? Definitely not.

I never said Cluster Bomb was too fast. I meant grenades should have AoE markers on the ground like they added to Cluster Bomb a while back.

Grenades are not blindable in my experience... I'll shadow shot towards and engineer that nades their feet and I'll still take damage (and be blinded myself because of Flashbang...)

[Kodama.6453]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Garret.1965 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Like Cluster Bomb for thief. Engineer grenades travel way too fast to react to such tiny projectiles without an AoE marker. Since they're basically uncounterable with blinds/aegis because there are multiple projectiles, AoE markers are desperately needed.Wait... Cluster Bomb is too fast? Is Arcing Arrow from warrior also an issue? Grenades are hardly unavoidable, my dude, and they

are

in-fact negated by blinds—for whatever reason. Not that I'm directly against giving nades AoE markers, however, but desperately needed? Definitely not.

I never said Cluster Bomb was too fast. I meant grenades should have AoE markers on the ground like they added to Cluster Bomb a while back.

Grenades are not blindable in my experience... I'll shadow shot towards and engineer that nades their feet and I'll still take damage (and be blinded myself because of Flashbang...)

Cluster Bomb is just one single explosion, meanwhile all grenade skills generate 3 seperated grenades which most likely would have to get their own AoE circles respectively.

That would clutter the ground quite alot, especially since the cast time for them is quite short. Grenade barrage goes even further by creating 6 grenades at once.People are already complaining about too much AoE spam and that it is hard to tell what is going on with so many AoE circles on the ground. Adding circles to grenades would make this so much worse.

[Vancho.8750]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Garret.1965 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Like Cluster Bomb for thief. Engineer grenades travel way too fast to react to such tiny projectiles without an AoE marker. Since they're basically uncounterable with blinds/aegis because there are multiple projectiles, AoE markers are desperately needed.Wait... Cluster Bomb is too fast? Is Arcing Arrow from warrior also an issue? Grenades are hardly unavoidable, my dude, and they

are

in-fact negated by blinds—for whatever reason. Not that I'm directly against giving nades AoE markers, however, but desperately needed? Definitely not.

I never said Cluster Bomb was too fast. I meant grenades should have AoE markers on the ground like they added to Cluster Bomb a while back.

Grenades are not blindable in my experience... I'll shadow shot towards and engineer that nades their feet and I'll still take damage (and be blinded myself because of Flashbang...)

Cluster Bomb is just one single explosion, meanwhile all grenade skills generate 3 seperated grenades which most likely would have to get their own AoE circles respectively.

That would clutter the ground quite alot, especially since the cast time for them is quite short. Grenade barrage goes even further by creating 6 grenades at once.People are already complaining about too much AoE spam and that it is hard to tell what is going on with so many AoE circles on the ground. Adding circles to grenades would make this so much worse.Pretty sure people complain about fire and forget AoE spam that linger on one spot like a puddle of piss that covers everything in a circle , basically whatever guard, scourge and renegade do. Some flashy skills don't deserve their animation and some skills need better tells.

[Quadox.7834]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Garret.1965 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Like Cluster Bomb for thief. Engineer grenades travel way too fast to react to such tiny projectiles without an AoE marker. Since they're basically uncounterable with blinds/aegis because there are multiple projectiles, AoE markers are desperately needed.Wait... Cluster Bomb is too fast? Is Arcing Arrow from warrior also an issue? Grenades are hardly unavoidable, my dude, and they

are

in-fact negated by blinds—for whatever reason. Not that I'm directly against giving nades AoE markers, however, but desperately needed? Definitely not.

I never said Cluster Bomb was too fast. I meant grenades should have AoE markers on the ground like they added to Cluster Bomb a while back.

Grenades are not blindable in my experience... I'll shadow shot towards and engineer that nades their feet and I'll still take damage (and be blinded myself because of Flashbang...)

Cluster Bomb is just one single explosion, meanwhile all grenade skills generate 3 seperated grenades which most likely would have to get their own AoE circles respectively.

That would clutter the ground quite alot, especially since the cast time for them is quite short. Grenade barrage goes even further by creating 6 grenades at once.People are already complaining about too much AoE spam and that it is hard to tell what is going on with so many AoE circles on the ground. Adding circles to grenades would make this so much worse.

hahhahahsha "people are already complaining about too much aoe spam" yes as if the existance or nonexistance of circles is what people mean by aoe spam and not the damage/effect itself. in fact, a big part of why people want circles for nades is precisely because of the aoe spam, if there was more clarity and fewer aoe effects im the game then skills wouldnt need circles as much bcs it would already be easy to spot them.

the problem of lack aof visual clarity and aoe spam are a result of the skill design in this game (where aoes dont have weaker effects than single target, see nades or burn dh), exacerbated by the expansions. if it were up to me i would reduce the effectiveness of aoes in general and redesign some animations (ex corona burst), but as this wont happen, they should indeed add circles to nades (at least nade barrage).

[NotFound.7813]

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:Would be nice if all the attacks didn't look the same, maybe I would like to dodge the chill grenades but im willing to tank the basic attack, too bad there is no kitten large difference between them.

They are white, poison is green, look at the hands than you see itLook at the hands lol, animations on hands on kitten ranged attack is pointless like it is pointless on all other ranged attacks in the game, notice the LARGE DIFFERENCE wording. Minimal Visual indication on strong attacks is stupid, when you have long telegraph attacks in the game that do less then kitten grenades you have an issue. Visibility in the kitten game is terrible for ranged attacks. Hand waving is not good telegraph, having the animation on the attacked area or person is way better.

Both engineer hand and nades have a specific colour without auto attack and nade barrage

[Widmo.3186]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Garret.1965 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Like Cluster Bomb for thief. Engineer grenades travel way too fast to react to such tiny projectiles without an AoE marker. Since they're basically uncounterable with blinds/aegis because there are multiple projectiles, AoE markers are desperately needed.Wait... Cluster Bomb is too fast? Is Arcing Arrow from warrior also an issue? Grenades are hardly unavoidable, my dude, and they

are

in-fact negated by blinds—for whatever reason. Not that I'm directly against giving nades AoE markers, however, but desperately needed? Definitely not.

I never said Cluster Bomb was too fast. I meant grenades should have AoE markers on the ground like they added to Cluster Bomb a while back.

Grenades are not blindable in my experience... I'll shadow shot towards and engineer that nades their feet and I'll still take damage (and be blinded myself because of Flashbang...)

Cluster Bomb is just one single explosion, meanwhile all grenade skills generate 3 seperated grenades which most likely would have to get their own AoE circles respectively.

That would clutter the ground quite alot, especially since the cast time for them is quite short. Grenade barrage goes even further by creating 6 grenades at once.People are already complaining about too much AoE spam and that it is hard to tell what is going on with so many AoE circles on the ground. Adding circles to grenades would make this so much worse.

Ye, so going this way - in order to prevent further AoE spam now we should disable some skill indicators so they still work the same way, you just dont see red circles. Have you thought about joining balance team? I think you would match their thinking style xDIm sorry, but if something deals e.g. 6k damage I want to see this. Even if its instant cast, theres a higher chance you dodge fast appearing red circle than bunch of small projectiles in middle of the fight

[Kodama.6453]

@Widmo.3186 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Garret.1965 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:Like Cluster Bomb for thief. Engineer grenades travel way too fast to react to such tiny projectiles without an AoE marker. Since they're basically uncounterable with blinds/aegis because there are multiple projectiles, AoE markers are desperately needed.Wait... Cluster Bomb is too fast? Is Arcing Arrow from warrior also an issue? Grenades are hardly unavoidable, my dude, and they

are

in-fact negated by blinds—for whatever reason. Not that I'm directly against giving nades AoE markers, however, but desperately needed? Definitely not.

I never said Cluster Bomb was too fast. I meant grenades should have AoE markers on the ground like they added to Cluster Bomb a while back.

Grenades are not blindable in my experience... I'll shadow shot towards and engineer that nades their feet and I'll still take damage (and be blinded myself because of Flashbang...)

Cluster Bomb is just one single explosion, meanwhile all grenade skills generate 3 seperated grenades which most likely would have to get their own AoE circles respectively.

That would clutter the ground quite alot, especially since the cast time for them is quite short. Grenade barrage goes even further by creating 6 grenades at once.People are already complaining about too much AoE spam and that it is hard to tell what is going on with so many AoE circles on the ground. Adding circles to grenades would make this so much worse.

Ye, so going this way - in order to prevent further AoE spam now we should disable some skill indicators so they still work the same way, you just dont see red circles. Have you thought about joining balance team? I think you would match their thinking style xDIm sorry, but if something deals e.g. 6k damage I want to see this. Even if its instant cast, theres a higher chance you dodge fast appearing red circle than bunch of small projectiles in middle of the fight

I can ridicule your statement in the other direction as well, you know?

"Oh fine, then if we need indication is so important that we need it on literally all skills, then we should also add red indicators for all other attacks. Cleaving sword attacks? Add a red cone to show what area the guy is hitting! Bow arrows, for example from rapid fire? Add red lines showing the exact area the arrows will travel! Let's see how useful your indicators will be if the entire ground is literally glowing in bright red because every single fart in this game will create a red indicator now!"

For Grenade Barrage, I think you could add this since it is a pretty hard hitting skill. But I still think that adding this to all grenade skills is just going way overboard, considering how spammable these are. Imagine how the ground would look like if an engineer just keeps spamming grenades over the place while being buffed with quickness.

Cluttering can have the opposite effect when it comes to clarity. If you are adding too much information, then the truly important information just goes unnoticed in the chaos.