Would you support ArenaNet if they implemented an optional subscription?

[Swoo.5079]

Subscriptions aren't used to develop games.If that was the case games would never be released in the first place. In fact, when Guild Wars 2 was being developed Arenant had basically 0 revenue (it had some, but not enough to pay the bills).The publisher-developer business model: the publisher invests in the developer in the hopes of reaping the reward when the product releases.

Now, obviously the more money Arenanet generates, the more money, time and freedom NCSoft will give them.One could even say that the original success of GW2 gemstore led to some decisions that many didn't enjoy and that the revenue decline led to decisions many seem to agree with.

[Shirlias.8104]

I don't get some proposals...If currently gems are worth X, why should anet release an optional subscription which gives X+Y gems for less money, and also additional benefits?A normal sub would be "less gems" + "boosts", that you'll get if you play, for an instance:

10 Eur monthly sub

1. 500 gems
2. 10% Karma/Magic Find/Golds/Reward Track bonus/Exp
3. Lesser discount on gemstore ( like a 10% discount, which could induce you to buy more gems ).

If you don't play the game, then the subscription will be meaningless ( you could instead buy gems ) because the 10% benefit would be "lost".

But still i don't get the point of that.If players want to support anet, the can buy gems and premium versions of the game ( and expansions ).What i read is not about supporting anet, but wanting something in exchange ( and many ideas, imagine it as "a way to get gems and other stuff for less bucks", which makes me disappointed ).

I don't want to underline the fact that some proposals are surreal ( if you think about em, you will realize that they would be wonderful for the players, but not for ANET ), but the fact that the behavior is deviated ( maybe through years of mmo, but this is not the problem ).

[wheelz.5461]

@Carighan.6758 said:Assuming that paying a sub fee would also come with the development quality and care of say, WoW, sure, all for it. But I doubt that this late in the game's life even the most rigorous rework spree could fix the deep-seated issues the combat and character systems have, nevermind the outdated engine.

I love how everyone refers to WoW eventually...However, I'd just like to say this. Do you get quality out of WoW? probably after massive bug fixes that they go through like three patches after the latest XPac comes out! And then, some of those fixes for the patches then need fixes. And then is the game playable after that? sure. but paying the subscription for wow....after awhile just wasn't worth it to me anymore.

I got tired of trying to do things in pvp where it would just arbitrarily boot me out of an arena because the developers didn't have time to fix a bug (and this consistently happened to me for a week every time I tried to play just before peak hours or just before an xpac came out). I got tired of similar happenings in dungeons from some random glitch (before LFG or LFR mind you, was implemented....and then I just got kicked from random groups because I was either a warlock or a hunter what have you). I've never raided faithfully (thank god) but I've also heard of glitches in raids that cause so much trouble.

I just finally got tired of playing a broken game or a game I couldn't even play because "We're sorry, server is full, please wait in queue...You are number 334!" every time a patch came out. And then on top of all that? if I wanted to do a server transfer (because god knows leveling that game is complicated enough as it is it isn't worth it to start from scratch because of however many levels they have now), I'd have to put MORE money into it. I got tired.

Optional subscription bases are okay with me, because if I can still play things like story lines (which is what I often do) or just pvp or wvw without having to pay for it if I can't some months, that's one thing. or even just add an automatic monthly gem store payment plan like one or two other users here have suggested! I've said before that I don't believe that the "optional subscription" model would bring in more than just being able to pay the developers and techs some overtime money or a pay raise (which I firmly believe they deserve), but to overhaul and bring things up to current and future standards of gaming are already costly enough! Not only would they need subscritption bases, but they'd also need more money from investors to help bring everything up from (now outdated) standards.

But WoW has never been an optional subscription based game and will never be. I'd rather play some of the other games from that developer than go back to that particular game...Besides, I like the looks of GW2 better than most others I've tried. Would I use the subscription bases? Sure, when I can afford and when it is in my own best interests to help support Anet further to continue to play new content!

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Nubsauce.9821 said:

@Conncept.7638 said:No, subscription models invariably lead to filler content, grinding, gating, and design around addiction instead of enjoyment. A purchase to play model is healthier for everyone involved.

And you have never grinded levels or mastery here....?

I've never experienced leveling as grind, nor the accumulation of experience for Masteries. By definition, getting Mastery Points cannot be grind. There's no repetition.

ANet has certainly put repetition-driven rewards into the game. Some players find pursuing those to be grind. Some players feel such to be necessary. The history of MMO's suggests that MMO's cannot survive without at least some repetition-driven stuff.

ANet has done pretty well in making the grind-like stuff optional. For me, every reward that requires repetition, gating, etc, are things I can choose to do or not, and not feel like I am missing out on something essential to playing the parts of the game I care to play. Ommv.

[wheelz.5461]

@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

@Nubsauce.9821 said:

@Conncept.7638 said:No, subscription models invariably lead to filler content, grinding, gating, and design around addiction instead of enjoyment. A purchase to play model is healthier for everyone involved.

And you have never grinded levels or mastery here....?

I've never experienced leveling as grind, nor the accumulation of experience for Masteries. By definition, getting Mastery Points cannot be grind. There's no repetition.

ANet has certainly put repetition-driven rewards into the game. Some players find pursuing those to be grind. Some players feel such to be necessary. The history of MMO's suggests that MMO's cannot survive without at least some repetition-driven stuff.

ANet has done pretty well in making the grind-like stuff optional. For me, every reward that requires repetition, gating, etc, are things I can choose to do or not, and not feel like I am missing out on something essential to playing the parts of the game I care to play. Ommv.

Sorry to just jump in on your conversation like this, but I honestly never feel like I have ever grinded anything in this game. Well, if you consider making alts a perpetual grind...then yeah I have. But it never felt like it! I don't have to run Dungeons over a hundred times in this game just to get that one piece of gear that I desperately needed like in some games....where that is your only option if you can't use a trading post or what have you to purchase for an astronomical amount of in game cash if it isn't soul/account bound....And the areas with repeated quests I love, because just sometimes....I want to go back and do a specific heart over again, not for any rewards, but for the simple fact that it was challenging and engaging enough for me to want to do so. The only time levels or masteries are considered a grind though, is if you're an alt-o-holic like I can be when I'm in the mood. The only thing I really ever saw as grinding was materiel collecting, which has it's own name (farming). I think there was only a handful of times I've ever spawn camped, and that was with other massive groups who were also preparing for a world boss (which has timers). GW2 already has more than enough content that I don't think it will fall into the pits that "Filler Content, Grinding, Grating, or Spawn Camping" fall into if you do add optional subscriptions.

[OumaShu.4502]

Nah, I'd drop the game immediately if they introduced an optional subscription.

[Celtic Lady.3729]

If they had an optional subscription, they would most likely need to give those subbers some kind of reward for doing so, and that would divide people into another category of haves and have-nots. I don't think I'd like that, so I voted no.

[Evono.4971]

i would buy a sub for sure in the kind of lets say 12,99 ? or 9,99 ? and we get some stuff out of the store ? like 1 free skin / pack per month and 1 free Upgrade and some gems or something ?

or a box worth of 15-20 € of random shop items

this would grant them more Reliable source of money that they can work with

[RoastedBloop.9817]

Does anyone remember the Chinese client leak, where it had a VIP sub?. It didn't go down too well with the forum, in fact the whole place went in to a total meltdown. So no, I don't think it would be a good idea if they had an optional subscription. As many would say that Anet are going back on their word. Some having the excuse to throw junk at them even.

[Super Hayes.6890]

I absolutely love the idea of supporting this game but I feel that adding an optional subscription would give the company an unintended "money grab" image. I might be wrong in that opinion but it just doesn't feel like it would have the intended effect.

[Substance E.4852]

@wheelz.5461 said:

@Carighan.6758 said:

I love how everyone refers to WoW eventually...However, I'd just like to say this. Do you get quality out of WoW?

The only thing more likely than a discussion of sub fee's to feature the mention of WoW, is a GW2 player insisting that WoW is trash tier game that does everything wrong.

[STIHL.2489]

I'll chime in on this. The main problem with the gem store, is that it's circular in funding, the store sells stuff so they make stuff to sell in the store. And while the store does fund the game, it does not give Anet any idea what players want from the game itself in regards to content. The same problem would hold true for a subscription. Anet would still be in the dark as to where to direct development to please their players.

[TheRandomGuy.7246]

If sub means that they will release 1 episode a month and triple the release speed of instanced stuff then sure.

[Substance E.4852]

Either go whole hog and have a full sub or go full cash shop. Not both.

Going half in the bag with an optional sub means there's an extremely high chance that sub fee money will simply be spent on funding more cash shop items to buy. Like a chain spending extra profits to open new locations instead of spending it on higher salaries to afford more competent workers thus providing a better customer experience. (chicken* fil a vs mcdonalds)

Games that technically have both like ff14 or WoW can mostly get around this by requiring a sub which forces them to spend most of their money on game dev and support via making it a gate to game access in the first place. Not prioritizing the game over the store presents a "game" where you pay an entry fee to be able to spend even more money.

Not a good look.

A f2p game with an optional fee isn't beholden to spending the money on actually making the game better because you don't have to pay. Any complaints about how the sub money is being allocated will be met with "well, it's not like you HAVE to pay, right?"

While I certainly can see the benefit of having a better selection on the back of someone else naively funding it, it still seems kind of sleazy and not something I would ever endorse.

*The word for an immature chicken is censored because reasons.

[Majirah.5089]

I wouldn't go for a sub model. I did that on swtor off an on for 5 years. This game is so much better even without that for a couple reasons (in my opinion):

I think the devs were smart to sell gold. I honestly don't know why other devs haven't done that. Gold farmers do it for a reason. So devs get revenue through people buying gems for gold. Not sure how much, but I bet it is a reasonable amount.

Also, when I subbed in swtor I felt that it should include everything I wanted in the game because I was subbed. Unreasonable and entitled, I know, but humans are often both. When I subbed I felt like it should be the end all be all.

When I was free to play on the other hand I didn't feel like I should get anything because I'm already lucky enough to play a fun game without any monthly fee. So when I had some extra cash I bought things from the cash shop. I'm sure it's not a surprise that I usually spent more money during the times that I didn't sub than when I did sub.

I think gw2 should stay as is. Get a small bit of revenue by selling expansions and get the majority of it off gem sales. Circumvent entitlement by not even offering a sub. I guarantee it would lead to entitlement issues.

I honestly think their model is great as is. Anyway, that is my two cents.

[wheelz.5461]

@Substance E.4852 said:

@wheelz.5461 said:

@Carighan.6758 said:

I love how everyone refers to WoW eventually...However, I'd just like to say this. Do you get quality out of WoW?

The only thing more likely than a discussion of sub fee's to feature the mention of WoW, is a GW2 player insisting that WoW is trash tier game that does everything wrong.

Okay, maybe I went a tad over board in my litany. And maybe not everyone experienced the same things with wow that I did. I should have made the one point at the end a bit more clear. You can't really compare wows subscription to play with those that are OPTIONAL. WOW is a MANDATORY SUBSCRIPTION if you want to play it. You have to pay to play that one. Sure, the give you options of how to get subscribed...or you can choose to buy the token on their auction house which some else has paid real cash for and you have to dump a lot of in game gold for...either way, they still get their $15 - $20, whether it's from you or someone else. And when you're bored or can't afford it, you just cancel subscription with no penalty. The only way to play, though is paid.

Other games that have started that way eventually found that optional was a decent way to go. They got a bit of a bigger player Base who tended to want to do the subscription because of the perks with a played account. Or they just stayed freebie mode, but word of mouth still brought in new players who may also subscribe or not as they chose.

Granted I played wow for quite a few years and did put up with a lot of the issues they had. During those times, it was fun despite the issues, but as I also said, I got tired of it. Plus, there came a time that I just couldn't afford to keep going with it.

[NoMaDhOoK.2958]

What if you don't call it a subscription, but instead a recurring gem contract or something. Where you can choose to pay per month (for x number of months) and get gems per month of a slightly higher value. So this way you are rewarded for committing to monthly payments (by getting more gems for your money) and ANet gets to see that at any time they will have x amount of gem revenue coming in the future.

[MikeyGrey.2496]

One of the biggest reasons this game was sold on is the business model. Regardless of the benefits offered, just the idea of implementing subscription is likely to turn away a lot of players. And considering the impending launch of 2nd xpac, this would be a bad idea.

[Midnight.7526]

I really don't care for content being locked behind subscriptions I have to maintain to use. I much prefer the current system.

[Midnight.7526]

@Substance E.4852 said:

@wheelz.5461 said:

@Carighan.6758 said:

I love how everyone refers to WoW eventually...However, I'd just like to say this. Do you get quality out of WoW?

The only thing more likely than a discussion of sub fee's to feature the mention of WoW, is a GW2 player insisting that WoW is trash tier game that does everything wrong.

Actually, I did enjoy WoW for a while, but the substandard graphics, rooted skills, and grindy quests got to me after eventually.

[Draehl.2681]

I'd pay a sub if the new engine had options to make the game looks less... glitzy. The overly glossy and plastic looking textures, tone down the the bright annoying legendary skins/wings/effects/ etc. Ideally resembling an updated GW1 more than the currently exaggerated look.

[Zaron.1987]

@Draehl.2681 said:I'd pay a sub if the new engine had options to make the game looks less... glitzy. The overly glossy and plastic looking textures, tone down the the bright annoying legendary skins/wings/effects/ etc. Ideally resembling an updated GW1 more than the currently exaggerated look.

Its already there and allowed.

Its called shader overlay. Just Look Out reshade, mastereffect, hook for darker look and so on

[Teratus.2859]

I buy the expansions and often buy gems for items in the store when I want them..

An optional subscription is entirely pointless.

If you want to support the developers then buy gems every month.. I know people who already do this and have been doing it since gw2 released.

The Guildwars franchise has always been against the subscription model.. which is something I greatly respect and is the sole reason I first picked up Gw1 all those years ago.

I personally despise the very concept of a subscription fee and am 100% against using anything that forces me to pay one.PSN.. XBL.. Nintendo Network.. World of Warcraft.. Netflix.. the list goes on and on.

If Guildwars became a subscription based game.. no matter how much I love this franchise I would never touch it again so long as it used a subscription model.. not even if it was as cheap as 10 cents a month..On principle I'd walk away.

[Charrbeque.8729]

Hell no. I usually spend $50 or more a month on gems. The average MMO subscription price is around $15. I'm already paying a lot to support the company (and happy to do it too).

[titje.2745]

ofc not. when i played wow i nearly never played other games because of the sub, i paid for it so i have to use it, if i didnt i felt bad bacause i wasted my money.i missed so much in other games because of this. i am happy i quit wow xD now i can play everygame wich i have sence to play without to think i lose money for not playing. this game is awesome as it is. only gems cost much gold. but when i want to keep my hard earned gold i sometimes buy gems :D maybe 3 times a year.