This profession is such a garbage...

[Jski.6180]

@"Infusion.7149" said:Elementalist is basically a mage class aka magician / wizard or magic using spellcaster. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.The only projectile attacks tend to be the autos which are magical in nature (i.e. stone shards, stoning). Even on a physical weapon such as dagger or sword it will use elemental attacks such as lightning whip or vapor blade. The instant damage in this game just hasn't been split between "actualized physical damage" and "actualized magical damage" and conditions and frankly it doesn't need to because damage is damage and it isn't specified as physical.

That not magic at all though magic is using elemental attks that often are weekend aimed of your target. I think GW2 is the only one that dose not have that in there magic system (there could be others but the main point is even in games like Pokemon you have elemental attks types for weakness and strs.)

Its an Elementalist not a ray gun or laze beam. Its kind of silly that the elemental type of the attks it self seems to have nothing to do with what your attking.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Jski.6180" said:Ele not realty a mages though there no magic dmg in this game condis are about as close as you can get but other then that every thing that is power dmg is physical dmg. At best ele has the animation of an mage but that it the ele class is more of an ranger class.

Maybe if they gave ele self quickness and alacrity for an "mages" dps boon but it mostly just has the stander boons that every class has.

What is a mage for you exactly? Do the damage have to be categorized as "magic" damage for a skill to be "magic"?I personally would say that all professions in this game are "mages" in a way or another and that it's easier to doubt that a profession isn't using "magic". (I mean, even warriors create banners out of nothing, if it's not magic, what is it?)

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:Elementalist is basically a mage class aka magician / wizard or magic using spellcaster. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.The only projectile attacks tend to be the autos which are magical in nature (i.e. stone shards, stoning). Even on a physical weapon such as dagger or sword it will use elemental attacks such as lightning whip or vapor blade. The instant damage in this game just hasn't been split between "actualized physical damage" and "actualized magical damage" and conditions and frankly it doesn't need to because damage is damage and it isn't specified as physical.

That not magic at all though magic is using elemental attks that often are weekend aimed of your target. I think GW2 is the only one that dose not have that in there magic system (there could be others but the main point is even in games like Pokemon you have elemental attks types for weakness and strs.)

Its an Elementalist not a ray gun or laze beam. Its kind of silly that the elemental type of the attks it self seems to have nothing to do with what your attking.

I gather you're suggesting more than just a change to the combat log here. What you want are elemental damage types complete with vulnerabilities, resistances, and immunities. Do you know WoW ran with that idea originally? They scrapped it pretty quickly because it was pointless and annoying. What you're asking for truly would make this class into garbage because you'd have to be a different flavor of "mage" for every stupid encounter thanks to arbitrary immunities, vulnerabilities, and resists. Depending how far you want to run with it, it might even require extra sets of equipment just to handle the baseline damage of an elemental attack type designed with resistances in mind (that's ultimately what killed the whole idea for WoW, in fact).

[Jijimuge.4675]

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:snipI gather you're suggesting more than just a change to the combat log here. What you want are elemental damage types complete with vulnerabilities, resistances, and immunities. Do you know WoW ran with that idea originally? They scrapped it pretty quickly because it was pointless and annoying. What you're asking for truly would make this class into garbage because you'd have to be a different flavor of "mage" for every stupid encounter thanks to arbitrary immunities, vulnerabilities, and resists. Depending how far you want to run with it, it might even require extra sets of equipment just to handle the baseline damage of an elemental attack type designed with resistances in mind (that's ultimately what killed the whole idea for WoW, in fact).

For what it's worth, the original Guild Wars had different damage types, and some mechanics played with it.

e.g. to boost one's damage with Conjure Flame one needed to be wielding a fire damage weapon, and Mantra of Flame would reduce fire damage taken and also grant energy when hit with it. One could also do some fairly interesting things with the spirit "Winter" to transform all elemental damage to cold and then abuse that (e.g. with Mantra of Frost)

But of course what this means is that deciding not to go with damage types was a deliberate choice by Anet. (Other than the cosmetic effects of damage types for enemy fatalities in GW2)

[Jski.6180]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:Elementalist is basically a mage class aka magician / wizard or magic using spellcaster. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.The only projectile attacks tend to be the autos which are magical in nature (i.e. stone shards, stoning). Even on a physical weapon such as dagger or sword it will use elemental attacks such as lightning whip or vapor blade. The instant damage in this game just hasn't been split between "actualized physical damage" and "actualized magical damage" and conditions and frankly it doesn't need to because damage is damage and it isn't specified as physical.

That not magic at all though magic is using elemental attks that often are weekend aimed of your target. I think GW2 is the only one that dose not have that in there magic system (there could be others but the main point is even in games like Pokemon you have elemental attks types for weakness and strs.)

Its an Elementalist not a ray gun or laze beam. Its kind of silly that the elemental type of the attks it self seems to have nothing to do with what your attking.

I gather you're suggesting more than just a change to the combat log here. What you want are elemental damage types complete with vulnerabilities, resistances, and immunities. Do you know WoW ran with that idea originally? They scrapped it pretty quickly because it was pointless and annoying. What you're asking for truly would make this class into garbage because you'd have to be a different flavor of "mage" for every stupid encounter thanks to arbitrary immunities, vulnerabilities, and resists. Depending how far you want to run with it, it might even require extra sets of equipment just to handle the baseline damage of an elemental attack type designed with resistances in mind (that's ultimately what killed the whole idea for WoW, in fact).

You still have magic dmg vs physical dmg and as long as you dont have a means for magic dmg some how going ignoring armor at some level its just all for show and its has nothing to do with magic. An arrow is the same as an fire ball.

[ScottBroChill.3254]

i tend to agree that the lack of physical and magic damage types sorta screws the elementalist in terms of it's role. The glass canon role usually succeeds not just because it has large numbers, but the damage type is more effective against a larger array of enemies. Without the unique damage type then the elementalist doesn't really have a true competitive advantage, or uniqueness. Every other class has some kinda unique effect or role that other classes don't have, so even those that are less optimal in their specific roles tend to be more useful. Ele's weakness isn't just its difficult rotations to achieve the highest benchmark, it's weakness is that it's not much of a team player, doesn't bring a sufficient amount of boons which are the center focus of the games combat, and it doesn't have access to the rare boons like alacrity and quickness, and can't really stack might... and doesn't have special trait effects for the team. Couple that with ele's high benchmark not being necessary and it's 10x more practical to take something simplier like a necro or guardian who also provide a lot of support. Now I'll continue to keep playing ele because it's fun and satisfying to play piano succesfully, but it literally sorta sucks on effectiveness and is missing a lot of tools that are easily accesible to most other classes. The only other class that feels as out of place as ele is probably thief because instead of being an in-and-out spiker, it's an in-and-out tickle me elmo because "spike damage=no fun" for pvp aspects so the pve aspects get a little screwed on this. But thief provides barely any utility, and seeing as this game is designed around self sufficency, both ele and thief needing to rely so hard on team mates providing support, they feel like a handicap that take more than they give.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:Elementalist is basically a mage class aka magician / wizard or magic using spellcaster. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.The only projectile attacks tend to be the autos which are magical in nature (i.e. stone shards, stoning). Even on a physical weapon such as dagger or sword it will use elemental attacks such as lightning whip or vapor blade. The instant damage in this game just hasn't been split between "actualized physical damage" and "actualized magical damage" and conditions and frankly it doesn't need to because damage is damage and it isn't specified as physical.

That not magic at all though magic is using elemental attks that often are weekend aimed of your target. I think GW2 is the only one that dose not have that in there magic system (there could be others but the main point is even in games like Pokemon you have elemental attks types for weakness and strs.)

Its an Elementalist not a ray gun or laze beam. Its kind of silly that the elemental type of the attks it self seems to have nothing to do with what your attking.

I gather you're suggesting more than just a change to the combat log here. What you want are elemental damage types complete with vulnerabilities, resistances, and immunities. Do you know WoW ran with that idea originally? They scrapped it pretty quickly because it was pointless and annoying. What you're asking for truly would make this class into garbage because you'd have to be a different flavor of "mage" for every stupid encounter thanks to arbitrary immunities, vulnerabilities, and resists. Depending how far you want to run with it, it might even require extra sets of equipment just to handle the baseline damage of an elemental attack type designed with resistances in mind (that's ultimately what killed the whole idea for WoW, in fact).

You still have magic dmg vs physical dmg and as long as you dont have a means for magic dmg some how going ignoring armor at some level its just all for show and its has nothing to do with magic. An arrow is the same as an fire ball.

Damage is damage unless the system handles it differently. We have such a system already when comparing conditions to power. You're just asking for strawberry in place of chocolate or vanilla. Change for the sake of change? No, thanks.

[Jski.6180]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:Elementalist is basically a mage class aka magician / wizard or magic using spellcaster. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.The only projectile attacks tend to be the autos which are magical in nature (i.e. stone shards, stoning). Even on a physical weapon such as dagger or sword it will use elemental attacks such as lightning whip or vapor blade. The instant damage in this game just hasn't been split between "actualized physical damage" and "actualized magical damage" and conditions and frankly it doesn't need to because damage is damage and it isn't specified as physical.

That not magic at all though magic is using elemental attks that often are weekend aimed of your target. I think GW2 is the only one that dose not have that in there magic system (there could be others but the main point is even in games like Pokemon you have elemental attks types for weakness and strs.)

Its an Elementalist not a ray gun or laze beam. Its kind of silly that the elemental type of the attks it self seems to have nothing to do with what your attking.

I gather you're suggesting more than just a change to the combat log here. What you want are elemental damage types complete with vulnerabilities, resistances, and immunities. Do you know WoW ran with that idea originally? They scrapped it pretty quickly because it was pointless and annoying. What you're asking for truly would make this class into garbage because you'd have to be a different flavor of "mage" for every stupid encounter thanks to arbitrary immunities, vulnerabilities, and resists. Depending how far you want to run with it, it might even require extra sets of equipment just to handle the baseline damage of an elemental attack type designed with resistances in mind (that's ultimately what killed the whole idea for WoW, in fact).

You still have magic dmg vs physical dmg and as long as you dont have a means for magic dmg some how going ignoring armor at some level its just all for show and its has nothing to do with magic. An arrow is the same as an fire ball.

Damage is damage unless the system handles it differently. We have such a system already when comparing conditions to power. You're just asking for strawberry in place of chocolate or vanilla. Change for the sake of change? No, thanks.

I am more talking about giving ele a means of going ignoring armor and dmg -% with out uping it max dmg. Ele is a class that cant deal with boons on other ppl by striping them so why not have "magic" hit there targets that are bunkering up?

Its back to an old soldiers assassin mages balancing ideal.

A soldiers can deal with assassin as the assassin cant kill something as tankly as a soldier fast enofe but a soldier cant deal with a mages as the mages hits in such a way that the soldiers cant def vs but to make it all balanced the assassin can do enofe dmg and be evasiveness enofe to take out the mage.

Right now the balancing is messed up and ele is not a true mages its more of an assassin.

[ugrakarma.9416]

im using the condition weaver from metabattle and is survinging well, i didnt know how.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:Elementalist is basically a mage class aka magician / wizard or magic using spellcaster. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.The only projectile attacks tend to be the autos which are magical in nature (i.e. stone shards, stoning). Even on a physical weapon such as dagger or sword it will use elemental attacks such as lightning whip or vapor blade. The instant damage in this game just hasn't been split between "actualized physical damage" and "actualized magical damage" and conditions and frankly it doesn't need to because damage is damage and it isn't specified as physical.

That not magic at all though magic is using elemental attks that often are weekend aimed of your target. I think GW2 is the only one that dose not have that in there magic system (there could be others but the main point is even in games like Pokemon you have elemental attks types for weakness and strs.)

Its an Elementalist not a ray gun or laze beam. Its kind of silly that the elemental type of the attks it self seems to have nothing to do with what your attking.

I gather you're suggesting more than just a change to the combat log here. What you want are elemental damage types complete with vulnerabilities, resistances, and immunities. Do you know WoW ran with that idea originally? They scrapped it pretty quickly because it was pointless and annoying. What you're asking for truly would make this class into garbage because you'd have to be a different flavor of "mage" for every stupid encounter thanks to arbitrary immunities, vulnerabilities, and resists. Depending how far you want to run with it, it might even require extra sets of equipment just to handle the baseline damage of an elemental attack type designed with resistances in mind (that's ultimately what killed the whole idea for WoW, in fact).

You still have magic dmg vs physical dmg and as long as you dont have a means for magic dmg some how going ignoring armor at some level its just all for show and its has nothing to do with magic. An arrow is the same as an fire ball.

Damage is damage unless the system handles it differently. We have such a system already when comparing conditions to power. You're just asking for strawberry in place of chocolate or vanilla. Change for the sake of change? No, thanks.

I am more talking about giving ele a means of going ignoring armor and dmg -% with out uping it max dmg. Ele is a class that cant deal with boons on other ppl by striping them so why not have "magic" hit there targets that are bunkering up?

Its back to an old soldiers assassin mages balancing ideal.

A soldiers can deal with assassin as the assassin cant kill something as tankly as a soldier fast enofe but a soldier cant deal with a mages as the mages hits in such a way that the soldiers cant def vs but to make it all balanced the assassin can do enofe dmg and be evasiveness enofe to take out the mage.

Right now the balancing is messed up and ele is not a true mages its more of an assassin.

Why not just go play the game you've taken these ideas from? They don't fit here. How can they? Elementalist (or any other class) is designed to be more than just one thing. Maybe backline staff weaver is a "mage"? What is tanky condi sword weaver? What is scepter FA tempest? Dagger support tempest? How do you make a GW2 class fit any one of these roles you envision? It doesn't even make sense here.

[Obtena.7952]

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:Elementalist is basically a mage class aka magician / wizard or magic using spellcaster. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.The only projectile attacks tend to be the autos which are magical in nature (i.e. stone shards, stoning). Even on a physical weapon such as dagger or sword it will use elemental attacks such as lightning whip or vapor blade. The instant damage in this game just hasn't been split between "actualized physical damage" and "actualized magical damage" and conditions and frankly it doesn't need to because damage is damage and it isn't specified as physical.

That not magic at all though magic is using elemental attks that often are weekend aimed of your target. I think GW2 is the only one that dose not have that in there magic system (there could be others but the main point is even in games like Pokemon you have elemental attks types for weakness and strs.)

Its an Elementalist not a ray gun or laze beam. Its kind of silly that the elemental type of the attks it self seems to have nothing to do with what your attking.

I gather you're suggesting more than just a change to the combat log here. What you want are elemental damage types complete with vulnerabilities, resistances, and immunities. Do you know WoW ran with that idea originally? They scrapped it pretty quickly because it was pointless and annoying. What you're asking for truly would make this class into garbage because you'd have to be a different flavor of "mage" for every stupid encounter thanks to arbitrary immunities, vulnerabilities, and resists. Depending how far you want to run with it, it might even require extra sets of equipment just to handle the baseline damage of an elemental attack type designed with resistances in mind (that's ultimately what killed the whole idea for WoW, in fact).

You still have magic dmg vs physical dmg and as long as you dont have a means for magic dmg some how going ignoring armor at some level its just all for show and its has nothing to do with magic. An arrow is the same as an fire ball.

Damage is damage unless the system handles it differently. We have such a system already when comparing conditions to power. You're just asking for strawberry in place of chocolate or vanilla. Change for the sake of change? No, thanks.

I am more talking about giving ele a means of going ignoring armor and dmg -% with out uping it max dmg. Ele is a class that cant deal with boons on other ppl by striping them so why not have "magic" hit there targets that are bunkering up?

Its back to an old soldiers assassin mages balancing ideal.

A soldiers can deal with assassin as the assassin cant kill something as tankly as a soldier fast enofe but a soldier cant deal with a mages as the mages hits in such a way that the soldiers cant def vs but to make it all balanced the assassin can do enofe dmg and be evasiveness enofe to take out the mage.

Right now the balancing is messed up and ele is not a true mages its more of an assassin.

This is a bad case of someone thinking the game should work how they envision it, not how Anet implements it. You're just playing the wrong game if you think Ele not working how you like is a problem because Anet can't make the game cater to how you want things to work. The bottomline here is that the OP just needs to choose his class in a way that suits how he plays if that's his criteria for choosing a class because Anet isn't going to change the class for him ... and the same goes for anyone else that feels there is something 'wrong' with the class because it doesn't work how they think it should either.

[Jski.6180]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:Elementalist is basically a mage class aka magician / wizard or magic using spellcaster. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.The only projectile attacks tend to be the autos which are magical in nature (i.e. stone shards, stoning). Even on a physical weapon such as dagger or sword it will use elemental attacks such as lightning whip or vapor blade. The instant damage in this game just hasn't been split between "actualized physical damage" and "actualized magical damage" and conditions and frankly it doesn't need to because damage is damage and it isn't specified as physical.

That not magic at all though magic is using elemental attks that often are weekend aimed of your target. I think GW2 is the only one that dose not have that in there magic system (there could be others but the main point is even in games like Pokemon you have elemental attks types for weakness and strs.)

Its an Elementalist not a ray gun or laze beam. Its kind of silly that the elemental type of the attks it self seems to have nothing to do with what your attking.

I gather you're suggesting more than just a change to the combat log here. What you want are elemental damage types complete with vulnerabilities, resistances, and immunities. Do you know WoW ran with that idea originally? They scrapped it pretty quickly because it was pointless and annoying. What you're asking for truly would make this class into garbage because you'd have to be a different flavor of "mage" for every stupid encounter thanks to arbitrary immunities, vulnerabilities, and resists. Depending how far you want to run with it, it might even require extra sets of equipment just to handle the baseline damage of an elemental attack type designed with resistances in mind (that's ultimately what killed the whole idea for WoW, in fact).

You still have magic dmg vs physical dmg and as long as you dont have a means for magic dmg some how going ignoring armor at some level its just all for show and its has nothing to do with magic. An arrow is the same as an fire ball.

Damage is damage unless the system handles it differently. We have such a system already when comparing conditions to power. You're just asking for strawberry in place of chocolate or vanilla. Change for the sake of change? No, thanks.

I am more talking about giving ele a means of going ignoring armor and dmg -% with out uping it max dmg. Ele is a class that cant deal with boons on other ppl by striping them so why not have "magic" hit there targets that are bunkering up?

Its back to an old soldiers assassin mages balancing ideal.

A soldiers can deal with assassin as the assassin cant kill something as tankly as a soldier fast enofe but a soldier cant deal with a mages as the mages hits in such a way that the soldiers cant def vs but to make it all balanced the assassin can do enofe dmg and be evasiveness enofe to take out the mage.

Right now the balancing is messed up and ele is not a true mages its more of an assassin.

Why not just go play the game you've taken these ideas from? They don't fit here. How can they? Elementalist (or any other class) is designed to be more than just one thing. Maybe backline staff weaver is a "mage"? What is tanky condi sword weaver? What is scepter FA tempest? Dagger support tempest? How do you make a GW2 class fit any one of these roles you envision? It doesn't even make sense here.

They do call the classes that way when it first came out and its the stander paper rock scissors system that is by far the best balancing system every made by humans.

The problem right now is every class is being balanced as rock and just rock and you can ball up paper to look like a rock there is no way it can ever be used as a rock.

Ele as its core is a mages class but its not playing like a mages class.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:Elementalist is basically a mage class aka magician / wizard or magic using spellcaster. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.The only projectile attacks tend to be the autos which are magical in nature (i.e. stone shards, stoning). Even on a physical weapon such as dagger or sword it will use elemental attacks such as lightning whip or vapor blade. The instant damage in this game just hasn't been split between "actualized physical damage" and "actualized magical damage" and conditions and frankly it doesn't need to because damage is damage and it isn't specified as physical.

That not magic at all though magic is using elemental attks that often are weekend aimed of your target. I think GW2 is the only one that dose not have that in there magic system (there could be others but the main point is even in games like Pokemon you have elemental attks types for weakness and strs.)

Its an Elementalist not a ray gun or laze beam. Its kind of silly that the elemental type of the attks it self seems to have nothing to do with what your attking.

I gather you're suggesting more than just a change to the combat log here. What you want are elemental damage types complete with vulnerabilities, resistances, and immunities. Do you know WoW ran with that idea originally? They scrapped it pretty quickly because it was pointless and annoying. What you're asking for truly would make this class into garbage because you'd have to be a different flavor of "mage" for every stupid encounter thanks to arbitrary immunities, vulnerabilities, and resists. Depending how far you want to run with it, it might even require extra sets of equipment just to handle the baseline damage of an elemental attack type designed with resistances in mind (that's ultimately what killed the whole idea for WoW, in fact).

You still have magic dmg vs physical dmg and as long as you dont have a means for magic dmg some how going ignoring armor at some level its just all for show and its has nothing to do with magic. An arrow is the same as an fire ball.

Damage is damage unless the system handles it differently. We have such a system already when comparing conditions to power. You're just asking for strawberry in place of chocolate or vanilla. Change for the sake of change? No, thanks.

I am more talking about giving ele a means of going ignoring armor and dmg -% with out uping it max dmg. Ele is a class that cant deal with boons on other ppl by striping them so why not have "magic" hit there targets that are bunkering up?

Its back to an old soldiers assassin mages balancing ideal.

A soldiers can deal with assassin as the assassin cant kill something as tankly as a soldier fast enofe but a soldier cant deal with a mages as the mages hits in such a way that the soldiers cant def vs but to make it all balanced the assassin can do enofe dmg and be evasiveness enofe to take out the mage.

Right now the balancing is messed up and ele is not a true mages its more of an assassin.

Why not just go play the game you've taken these ideas from? They don't fit here. How can they? Elementalist (or any other class) is designed to be more than just one thing. Maybe backline staff weaver is a "mage"? What is tanky condi sword weaver? What is scepter FA tempest? Dagger support tempest? How do you make a GW2 class fit any one of these roles you envision? It doesn't even make sense here.

They do call the classes that way when it first came out and its the stander paper rock scissors system that is by far the best balancing system every made by humans.

The problem right now is every class is being balanced as rock and just rock and you can ball up paper to look like a rock there is no way it can ever be used as a rock.

Ele as its core is a mages class but its not playing like a mages class.

Rock/Paper/Scissors falls apart when any one can be either of the other two. Again, that is how this game is designed. It's a central feature and it will never go away. Just move on from that idea. Complaining about it endlessly will not change anything. You want elementalist to be something very specific. That is not how GW2 works. Instead, just suggest improvements to staff/scepter. That's something I think most ele players could get behind and it doesn't require turning GW2 into a standard trinity MMO.

[Jski.6180]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:Elementalist is basically a mage class aka magician / wizard or magic using spellcaster. I don't know why anyone would think otherwise.The only projectile attacks tend to be the autos which are magical in nature (i.e. stone shards, stoning). Even on a physical weapon such as dagger or sword it will use elemental attacks such as lightning whip or vapor blade. The instant damage in this game just hasn't been split between "actualized physical damage" and "actualized magical damage" and conditions and frankly it doesn't need to because damage is damage and it isn't specified as physical.

That not magic at all though magic is using elemental attks that often are weekend aimed of your target. I think GW2 is the only one that dose not have that in there magic system (there could be others but the main point is even in games like Pokemon you have elemental attks types for weakness and strs.)

Its an Elementalist not a ray gun or laze beam. Its kind of silly that the elemental type of the attks it self seems to have nothing to do with what your attking.

I gather you're suggesting more than just a change to the combat log here. What you want are elemental damage types complete with vulnerabilities, resistances, and immunities. Do you know WoW ran with that idea originally? They scrapped it pretty quickly because it was pointless and annoying. What you're asking for truly would make this class into garbage because you'd have to be a different flavor of "mage" for every stupid encounter thanks to arbitrary immunities, vulnerabilities, and resists. Depending how far you want to run with it, it might even require extra sets of equipment just to handle the baseline damage of an elemental attack type designed with resistances in mind (that's ultimately what killed the whole idea for WoW, in fact).

You still have magic dmg vs physical dmg and as long as you dont have a means for magic dmg some how going ignoring armor at some level its just all for show and its has nothing to do with magic. An arrow is the same as an fire ball.

Damage is damage unless the system handles it differently. We have such a system already when comparing conditions to power. You're just asking for strawberry in place of chocolate or vanilla. Change for the sake of change? No, thanks.

I am more talking about giving ele a means of going ignoring armor and dmg -% with out uping it max dmg. Ele is a class that cant deal with boons on other ppl by striping them so why not have "magic" hit there targets that are bunkering up?

Its back to an old soldiers assassin mages balancing ideal.

A soldiers can deal with assassin as the assassin cant kill something as tankly as a soldier fast enofe but a soldier cant deal with a mages as the mages hits in such a way that the soldiers cant def vs but to make it all balanced the assassin can do enofe dmg and be evasiveness enofe to take out the mage.

Right now the balancing is messed up and ele is not a true mages its more of an assassin.

Why not just go play the game you've taken these ideas from? They don't fit here. How can they? Elementalist (or any other class) is designed to be more than just one thing. Maybe backline staff weaver is a "mage"? What is tanky condi sword weaver? What is scepter FA tempest? Dagger support tempest? How do you make a GW2 class fit any one of these roles you envision? It doesn't even make sense here.

They do call the classes that way when it first came out and its the stander paper rock scissors system that is by far the best balancing system every made by humans.

The problem right now is every class is being balanced as rock and just rock and you can ball up paper to look like a rock there is no way it can ever be used as a rock.

Ele as its core is a mages class but its not playing like a mages class.

Rock/Paper/Scissors falls apart when any one can be either of the other two. Again, that is how this game is designed. It's a central feature and it will never go away. Just move on from that idea. Complaining about it endlessly will not change anything. You want elementalist to be something very specific. That is not how GW2 works. Instead, just suggest improvements to staff/scepter. That's something I think most ele players could get behind and it doesn't require turning GW2 into a standard trinity MMO.

That is my point lol or at least that classes are being balanced in a gen. way that MAKES them into a class type they are not. It is the only way to fix some massive problem to the ele class.

I want ele to be a mages (or paper) but right now every thing is being balanced as an soldiers (or rock) and it only means that the ele class is become less of an mages over time. The weaver is only meta because it dose not play like a mages at all. Anet has messed up with simple balancing and class ideals.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Jski.6180" said:That is my point lol or at least that classes are being balanced in a gen. way that MAKES them into a class type they are not. It is the only way to fix some massive problem to the ele class.

I want ele to be a mages (or paper) but right now every thing is being balanced as an soldiers (or rock) and it only means that the ele class is become less of an mages over time. The weaver is only meta because it dose not play like a mages at all. Anet has messed up with simple balancing and class ideals.

How exactly do you expect the "rock/paper/scisor" philosophy to come back in GW2 when the sPvP population try it's best to be left with only glass canons (scisor)? I mean, I've seen someone claim that a profession playing decap (basically rock) shouldn't even be allowed in sPvP, justifying this claim by "fights should be quick, nobody should be allowed to prevent the fight by pushing or restraining it's enemy out of the point".

NB.: Mage aren't necessarily "paper". A mage that use it's magic to increase it's defense can very well be a rock.

[Jobber.6348]

@"Jski.6180" said:That is my point lol or at least that classes are being balanced in a gen. way that MAKES them into a class type they are not. It is the only way to fix some massive problem to the ele class.

I want ele to be a mages (or paper) but right now every thing is being balanced as an soldiers (or rock) and it only means that the ele class is become less of an mages over time. The weaver is only meta because it dose not play like a mages at all. Anet has messed up with simple balancing and class ideals.

That logic does not work at all in Gw2 period.Gw2 already breaks traditional role based archetypes usually featured in fantasy games, which is why Gw2 does not have a Tank/Mage/Cleric role designation to Professions.All Professions can perform any role to some capacity, while some does it better than others.

And that is where yur logic fails : Eles are in fact one of the tankiest and hardest Professions to kill by rotating their defensive cooldowns properly, and this is without sacrificing damage.

"Mage" in Gw2 is more or less just an aesthetic.Ever heard of Battle Mages?They have been a staple of fantasy games like DnD and in some mainstream games like Elder Scroll for a long time.

In fact, if Anet tries to shoehorn classes into stereotypical archetype, it will bring the overall powerlevel of the class down, because if yu relegate Eles to only be "Mages" which either spells DPS or Support, their amount of effective roles decrease and their build options become stifled.

And this will lead to the entire Profession to die if their damage or support capabilities do not match equal power levels with another Profession which can do more.

That's the entire problem with Profession balance in the game right now :Guardians, more specifically Firebrands, do way too much.Other Professions like Thief and Necro have strangulated build options.Revenants and Eles have 1 or 2 niche builds.

If we want Eles to become better, we need to either directly increase the amount of things it can achieve which will lead to Power creep, or we nerf the overperformers like Firebrand which will lead to people just slapping on more Firebrands, because Anet has historically never balanced with foresight and just do numbers stamping to keep things "tame".

If there is anything Ele needs, it's more fluidity between Elements, and overall DPS of all 4 Elements roughly the same, which may mean lowering Fire and Air a little and increasing Water and Earth.

Eles usually dip DPS when attuning to Water and Earth, so they should have, for example, stronger Auto attacks to compensate for their heal/protection based Attunement.

[Sobx.1758]

@Yasai.3549 said:Eles usually dip DPS when attuning to Water and Earth, so they should have, for example, stronger Auto attacks to compensate for their heal/protection based Attunement.

...ele needs dps boost?

And I don't see why it needs overall dps of all 4 elements to be roughtly the same, when their utility isn't -which also, pretty sure, is the reason for the dps differences between them.

[Jobber.6348]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Eles usually dip DPS when attuning to Water and Earth, so they should have, for example, stronger Auto attacks to compensate for their heal/protection based Attunement.

...ele needs dps boost?

No no no, Eles don't need an overall DPS boost.They need a DPS balancing across their 4 different Elements.That means dropping Fire and Air DPS in favour of boosting Water and Earth.

I was just suggesting Auto Attacks as they don't eat into the other 4 weapon skills which are usually healing and protection based utility. (usually)

Read my full post.

[Sobx.1758]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Eles usually dip DPS when attuning to Water and Earth, so they should have, for example, stronger Auto attacks to compensate for their heal/protection based Attunement.

...ele needs dps boost?

No no no, Eles don't need an overall DPS boost.They need a DPS balancing across their 4 different Elements.That means dropping Fire and Air DPS in favour of boosting Water and Earth.

I was just suggesting Auto Attacks as they don't eat into the other 4 weapon skills which are usually healing and protection based utility. (usually)

Read my full post.

If you make the dps more even throughout the ettunements then people might just sit in water/earth much more than the others that were supposed to be more dps oriented. Putting it into aa is also kind of weird to me, because then you keep the whole utility nature of those skills, so you can use it when needed without losing anything and still deeps with just AA. That's a weird idea to me.

And why would it need to be done anyways?

[Jobber.6348]

@Sobx.1758 said:

If you make the dps more even throughout the ettunements then people might just sit in water/earth much more than the others that were supposed to be more dps oriented. Putting it into aa is also kind of weird to me, because then you keep the whole utility nature of those skills, so you can use it when needed without losing anything and still deeps with just AA. That's a weird idea to me.

And why would it need to be done anyways?

If people sit in Water and Earth, they lose all the damage from Fire and Air, as well as the benefits from attuning to Fire and Air.Why would anyone wanna do that if they are achieving highest possible DPS?

I'm talking about PvE and Weaver performance in general where dps dips if they attune to Water or Earth.

If yu are talking about PvP then this doesn't matter : Water and Earth basically do 0 damage anyway after the coefficient nerfs, so camp it all yu like.

[The Boz.2038]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Eles usually dip DPS when attuning to Water and Earth, so they should have, for example, stronger Auto attacks to compensate for their heal/protection based Attunement.

...ele needs dps boost?

No no no, Eles don't need an overall DPS boost.They need a DPS balancing across their 4 different Elements.That means dropping Fire and Air DPS in favour of boosting Water and Earth.

I was just suggesting Auto Attacks as they don't eat into the other 4 weapon skills which are usually healing and protection based utility. (usually)

Read my full post.

Why?Fire does DPS and DPS. Air does DPS and some CC. Earth does DPS, CC, tank. Water does DPS, CC, heal.Why use Fire and Air if Earth and Water can clock in the same deeps, while also shoving down heals and tanks and tons of CC?

[Tsakhi.8124]

What is with people saying such and such class is garbage because they personally are not good at it? I mean, I am absolute trash-tier with Warrior, but think it's a really good class if that's your playstyle. And if it's such a trash class, then why can I absolutely melt anything that gets in my way in the open-world? I think we've established that I am mediocre at best and yet Elementalist isn't really hard for me. If we're speaking PvP or WvW, well, I don't know much about that. (I use my Firebrand/DH/Guardian) in WvW.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

If you make the dps more even throughout the ettunements then people might just sit in water/earth much more than the others that were supposed to be more dps oriented. Putting it into aa is also kind of weird to me, because then you keep the whole utility nature of those skills, so you can use it

when needed

without losing anything and still deeps with just AA. That's a weird idea to me.

And why would it need to be done anyways?

If people sit in Water and Earth, they lose all the damage from Fire and Air, as well as the benefits from attuning to Fire and Air.Why would anyone wanna do that if they are achieving highest possible DPS?

I think what Sobx try to point out is that buffing water/earth damage can easily get out of hand. In many way, the benefits from attuning to fire aren't that great. Based on the weaponset you use, water/earth can offer you more benefits (I mean water scepter's AA isn't far from outdpsing fire AA already, it's also true for earth dagger's AA). On another side, staff show high damage variations between AA and your arguments might stand true for this weapon (That is if we ignore the aoe heal of water AA and the weakness of earth AA). Well, staff's balance is a whole subject on it's own.

[Axl.8924]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:That is my point lol or at least that classes are being balanced in a gen. way that MAKES them into a class type they are not. It is the only way to fix some massive problem to the ele class.

I want ele to be a mages (or paper) but right now every thing is being balanced as an soldiers (or rock) and it only means that the ele class is become less of an mages over time. The weaver is only meta because it dose not play like a mages at all. Anet has messed up with simple balancing and class ideals.

That logic does not work at all in Gw2 period.Gw2 already breaks traditional role based archetypes usually featured in fantasy games, which is why Gw2 does not have a Tank/Mage/Cleric role designation to Professions.All Professions can perform any role to some capacity, while some does it better than others.

And that is where yur logic fails : Eles are in fact one of the tankiest and hardest Professions to kill by rotating their defensive cooldowns properly, and this is without sacrificing damage.

"Mage" in Gw2 is more or less just an aesthetic.Ever heard of Battle Mages?They have been a staple of fantasy games like DnD and in some mainstream games like Elder Scroll for a long time.

In fact, if Anet tries to shoehorn classes into stereotypical archetype, it will bring the overall powerlevel of the class down, because if yu relegate Eles to only be "Mages" which either spells DPS or Support, their amount of effective roles decrease and their build options become stifled.

And this will lead to the entire Profession to die if their damage or support capabilities do not match equal power levels with another Profession which can do more.

That's the entire problem with Profession balance in the game right now :Guardians, more specifically Firebrands, do way too much.Other Professions like Thief and Necro have strangulated build options.Revenants and Eles have 1 or 2 niche builds.

If we want Eles to become better, we need to either directly increase the amount of things it can achieve which will lead to Power creep, or we nerf the overperformers like Firebrand which will lead to people just slapping on more Firebrands, because Anet has historically never balanced with foresight and just do numbers stamping to keep things "tame".

If there is anything Ele needs, it's more fluidity between Elements, and overall DPS of all 4 Elements roughly the same, which may mean lowering Fire and Air a little and increasing Water and Earth.

Eles usually dip DPS when attuning to Water and Earth, so they should have, for example, stronger Auto attacks to compensate for their heal/protection based Attunement.

Would be nice if anet focused on mechanical overhaul.

Some of the classes have mechanisms that aren't built for raids and fractals.

Some QOL might help ele feel better.

[Emberheart.8426]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

If you make the dps more even throughout the ettunements then people might just sit in water/earth much more than the others that were supposed to be more dps oriented. Putting it into aa is also kind of weird to me, because then you keep the whole utility nature of those skills, so you can use it

when needed

without losing anything and still deeps with just AA. That's a weird idea to me.

And why would it need to be done anyways?

If people sit in Water and Earth, they lose all the damage from Fire and Air, as well as the benefits from attuning to Fire and Air.Why would anyone wanna do that if they are achieving highest possible DPS?

I think what Sobx try to point out is that buffing water/earth damage can easily get out of hand. In many way, the benefits from attuning to fire aren't that great. Based on the weaponset you use, water/earth can offer you more benefits (I mean water scepter's AA isn't far from outdpsing fire AA already, it's also true for earth dagger's AA). On another side, staff show high damage variations between AA and your arguments might stand true for this weapon (That is if we ignore the aoe heal of water AA and the weakness of earth AA). Well, staff's balance is a whole subject on it's own.

For staff specifically I would argue that water AA needs to no longer splash heal and get its damage buffed. It's a weird and clunky mechanic, and on top of that encourages camping water too much on support builds. While on the subject of camping attunements, lava font needs a higher cd with higher damage so swapping into other attunements is not as punishing.

Of course staff needs many more changes than these, but these 2 specific skills are the main ones that encourage attunement camping. The abysmal damage of the the non-fire attunements also discourages switching from fire. The rest of the weapons are much more balanced between attunements though.