Don't like the POF expansion area's very much.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:This video isnt even showing a very fast kill btw. It is a

trailblazer

condi weaver. Some other builds can melt it in half that time. Thats why experienced players just roll their eyes when somebody on forum calls story bosses hp sponges.Dire, if I am not mistaken.... but close enough.Much cheaper to gear.

No, he's correct. Although I have used dire with balthazar runes in the past, you gain more armor, condition damage, and bleed duration using trailblazer with undead runes. I recommend the dire setup if you just want to build on the cheap. It still works great, but trailblazer is objectively better!

You would technically be better off in this fight using Viper, as the phases are very short and you should be able to push them without really having to deal with much in the way of counter-attacks from the boss. The last phase is questionable, however. I don't think I would have gotten the achievement using Viper, but that could also be because I sort of played that phase like a potato, not really knowing the strategy (it's been forever since I did this fight!).

[mindcircus.1506]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Nephalem.8921" said:This video isnt even showing a very fast kill btw. It is a

trailblazer

condi weaver. Some other builds can melt it in half that time. Thats why experienced players just roll their eyes when somebody on forum calls story bosses hp sponges.Dire, if I am not mistaken.... but close enough.Much cheaper to gear.

No, he's correct. Although I have used dire with balthazar runes in the past, you gain more armor, condition damage, and bleed duration using trailblazer with undead runes. I recommend the dire setup if you just want to build on the cheap. It still works great, but trailblazer is objectively better!

You would technically be better off in this fight using Viper, as the phases are very short and you should be able to push them without really having to deal with much in the way of counter-attacks from the boss. The last phase is questionable, however. I don't think I would have gotten the achievement using Viper, but that could also be because I sort of played that phase like a potato, not really knowing the strategy (it's been forever since I did this fight!).Interesting... how much different were the ARC/Golem numbers for you? Because I found the numbers about the same and the high raw condi numbers against trash mobs in OW to benefit speedily clearing trash. That said I mainly camp fire, but I am running the Dire/Balth armor and then viper's weapons with Busrting/ Smoldering.Anyways... not a huge difference either and 8k unbuffed against the story champ is way more than enough.It should serve to show there many ways to achieve a decent setup even if it's something as decidedly off-meta and specific as "Condi Tempest", You may favor Focus, me? you take my warhorn away from my cold dead hand.Also for those moments like this boss fight were you want a fair bit higher numbers I keep a set of Viper's Trinkets in my second gear loadout and swap to them.Pretty sure this is not news to you, but newer players reading may consider this. Your second gear loadout can use any and all elements of your first.

[Joote.4081]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"Joote.4081" said:Yeah, I've spent the morning playing with build templates and testing them. They are a great little feature.It's hard to pull myself away from sword + focus. I have near enough perfected fighting with these weapons. I soloed my way right into the heart of one of the Branded fortresses and picked up the hero points there. It was virtually constant fighting as what I killed soon respawned, but it was a proud moment. :)

Hey! Sword/focus! My favorite weapon set! Although I play elementalist and not guardian, obviously. I've never really played a "warrior-mage" or "spellsword" type that plays anything like this, but it feels great! Glad you seem to be finding your thing with guardian as well.

Keep practicing and trying different things and eventually you may find that challenges you never even considered possible are within your reach!

The first thing I need to set in stone is not to panic and spam the keyboard. This gets me killed every time against higher enemy's. It's hard not to and I have to keep on telling my self to calm down and remember my rotation while dodging, jumping and dancing around the target.

Ever noticed whenever you take your eye's of your health bubble, it's gone? :)

[AliamRationem.5172]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Nephalem.8921" said:This video isnt even showing a very fast kill btw. It is a

trailblazer

condi weaver. Some other builds can melt it in half that time. Thats why experienced players just roll their eyes when somebody on forum calls story bosses hp sponges.Dire, if I am not mistaken.... but close enough.Much cheaper to gear.

No, he's correct. Although I have used dire with balthazar runes in the past, you gain more armor, condition damage, and bleed duration using trailblazer with undead runes. I recommend the dire setup if you just want to build on the cheap. It still works great, but trailblazer is objectively better!

You would technically be better off in this fight using Viper, as the phases are very short and you should be able to push them without really having to deal with much in the way of counter-attacks from the boss. The last phase is questionable, however. I don't think I would have gotten the achievement using Viper, but that could also be because I sort of played that phase like a potato, not really knowing the strategy (it's been forever since I did this fight!).Interesting... how much different were the ARC/Golem numbers for you? Because I found the numbers about the same and the high raw condi numbers against trash mobs in OW to benefit speedily clearing trash. That said I mainly camp fire, but I am running the Dire/Balth armor and then viper's weapons with Busrting/ Smoldering.Anyways... not a huge difference either and 8k unbuffed against the story champ is way more than enough.It should serve to show there many ways to achieve a decent setup even if it's something as decidedly off-meta and specific as "Condi Tempest", You may favor Focus, me? you take my warhorn away from my cold dead hand.Also for those moments like this boss fight were you want a fair bit higher numbers I keep a set of Viper's Trinkets in my second gear loadout and swap to them.Pretty sure this is not news to you, but newer players reading may consider this. Your second gear loadout can use any and all elements of your first.

I think golem benchmark is something like 30k-ish? Honestly, I only go to the golem when I'm helping someone else and I don't memorize the exact rotation I'm supposed to use, though I do look at sites like snowcrows, metabattle, and discretize to have some idea of it. I'm casual. I don't raid or really do any group content except maybe a T4 daily pickup or maybe a strike mission or DRM now and then, so it never seemed necessary to spend time practicing on a golem. But as you say, it doesn't matter if you have a decent build with some synergy and know how to get what you need out of it.

That's really the takeaway from all of this. Casual does not equate to potato, so there's no reason to limit yourself to playing like one. The game is only as impossible as you make it!

[BlueJin.4127]

@"Joote.4081" said:My views have changed a lot over the period of this conversation, which is why I am in favour of discussing something that bothers you.If you bottle it up nothing really changes in fact it gets worse. Airing out your feeling about the game on the forums is what it's all about. When people discuss and not bash it really works.For instance: over the period of this post I have grown to love HOT's and have gained enough information to at least tolerate POF (stuck at it). :)Just like when in the game, we revive each other when down.

Good to hear you're enjoying HoT. HoT is amazing, IMO. The maps are confusing at first, but very interesting and fun to navigate with mounts once you get used to them. I still get lost in TD, but really love the uniqueness of the map.

Personally, I still cannot enjoy PoF. I think it may come down to personalities. I can solo almost all HoT HP's without using specialized builds or gears, so dealing with a bunch of PoF enemies isn't a problem. But when I simply want to gather a node and go on my way, the constant disruptions can be really aggravating. So many times, I tried to convince myself to not let the chain of aggroes bother me. I'd play the game for like 5 minutes without dealing with the aggro range, and I'd really enjoy PoF. Then, I'd have to put up with a chain of aggroes all because I want to gather that one orichalcum node. I'd tell myself, "It's fine. Just kill them and go. I'm in no rush, no need to be annoyed." It works... for a while. 10 minutes later, I run into another chain of aggroes, then I'd think, "OK, this is getting annoying. It's fine. Just don't let it bother you." I'd play for another 10 minutes or so, having fun, then run into another chain of aggroes. At this point, I'd just be seriously irritated and be like, "Screw this kitten! Do I really need to kill like a half dozen enemies, one after another, just to gather 1 freaking node? Really?!"

Despite trying for almost 3 years to be OK with the long PoF aggro range, I just cannot not let it bother me. When I do go to PoF, I rarely do any gathering. I also stopped map completing PoF because some vistas are surrounded by enemies (though I guess the mount stealth skill will likely come in handy).

[Joote.4081]

@BlueJin.4127 said:

@"Joote.4081" said:My views have changed a lot over the period of this conversation, which is why I am in favour of discussing something that bothers you.If you bottle it up nothing really changes in fact it gets worse. Airing out your feeling about the game on the forums is what it's all about. When people discuss and not bash it really works.For instance: over the period of this post I have grown to love HOT's and have gained enough information to at least tolerate POF (stuck at it). :)Just like when in the game, we revive each other when down.

Good to hear you're enjoying HoT. HoT is amazing, IMO. The maps are confusing at first, but very interesting and fun to navigate with mounts once you get used to them. I still get lost in TD, but really love the uniqueness of the map.

Personally, I still cannot enjoy PoF. I think it may come down to personalities. I can solo almost all HoT HP's without using specialized builds or gears, so dealing with a bunch of PoF enemies isn't a problem. But when I simply want to gather a node and go on my way, the constant disruptions can be really aggravating. So many times, I tried to convince myself to not let the chain of aggroes bother me. I'd play the game for like 5 minutes without dealing with the aggro range, and I'd really enjoy PoF. Then, I'd have to put up with a chain of aggroes all because I want to gather that one orichalcum node. I'd tell myself, "It's fine. Just kill them and go. I'm in no rush, no need to be annoyed." It works... for a while. 10 minutes later, I run into another chain of aggroes, then I'd think, "OK, this is getting annoying. It's fine. Just don't let it bother you." I'd play for another 10 minutes or so, having fun, then run into another chain of aggroes. At this point, I'd just be seriously irritated and be like, "Screw this kitten! Do I really need to kill like a half dozen enemies, one after another, just to gather 1 freaking node? Really?!"

Despite trying for almost 3 years to be OK with the long PoF aggro range, I just cannot not let it bother me. When I do go to PoF, I rarely do any gathering. I also stopped map completing PoF because some vistas are surrounded by enemies (though I guess the mount stealth skill will likely come in handy).

I didn't like HOT's when it first released but they seemed to have balanced it out well over the years. And you can always find a place to take a breather as well as explore.I'm like you with POF, there is only so much I can take before I switch over characters and go somewhere less populated by things wanting to eat me. You literally can't do anything without some creature trolling you. Oh great it's only one worm, then out of the clouds come his mates, and they bring there mates, and then a squad of branded come to see what all the commotions about. 2 hours later you finally get to pick that onion .

[battledrone.8315]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@BlueJin.4127 said:

@brgmns.9235 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

You may well be having trouble with the game, but that doesn't necessarily make a game hard core. If you don't agree, you can make a post on the forums and ask for the communities opinions on whether this game is hard core or not, difficult or not. My guess is only a small percentage of people will say it's hard core.

From my point of view this is a casual MMO that has become slightly less casual due to more grinding to get specific rewards. But most of that grinding is something that you don't need to do quickly and can be done over time.

Asking the hardcore base (people that post on forums aren’t the majority and by naitire are rarely casual even if they call themselves that) what they think the difficulty is doesn’t really work well lol.

Having played EQ at launch, we can probably agree it was hardcore, and most any MMO thats launched since then I’d say in today’s MMO this game is fairly hardcore for a newer player.

Veteran players don’t realize that because you have everything unlocked, fly around, have a great friend base to do what you need so honestly your opinion is so far obscured it’s basically useless. A brain surgeon telling a resident removing an appendix is trivial didn’t make it so.

The core game was fairly simple, easier than that honestly. HoT is a pain for new players. Constant events where your story takes you, half the time no one there to help you so you can barely get to the green marker. Veteran mobs are kind of tough and everywhere. It’s a maze on a massive scale up, down and underground so just knowing where to go is a pain. (green quest marker doesn’t say it’s up or down from current location like hero points do). Overall this isn’t casual by today’s standards at all.

Just running events with crowds isn’t casual. The mechanics aren’t hard, but aren’t simple either, it’s really fast paced because 90% of the people know what they are doing and the rest us are basically along for the ride so learning exactly what to do isn’t easy playing from behind most of the time. That’s not casual, that’s like joking a boss fight in a raid without any concept of what to do.

I’m not basing the game, it is what it is and I’m still playing it and like it a lot, but saying it’s causal and not hardcore by today’s standards isn’t accurate, at least to a new player.

No veteran was born good at this game. Veterans didn't have all mounts and masteries magically unlocked from the beginning of the game. They started from scratch just like any player that starts playing from today. Players improve over time. If a player is having trouble with HoT, it's not because they're casual; it's because they didn't improve enough since they started. Plenty of new and casual players have no trouble integrating into HoT. I never felt that HoT was too hard when I first stepped in and I was a casual barely a month into the game at the time. There is definitely a jump in difficulty curve, but nothing that can't be overcome by casually upgrading gears, builds, and learning to play a profession. Being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

I also cannot say that running events with crowds isn't casual. I was no veteran when I started playing HoT. When I returned to the game from a break, I had no idea what Drizzlewood was like. And I only recently got into fractals. Everybody already knew what they were doing, and I was just following them around clueless. After a couple of runs of just mindlessly following them, I learned the "mechanics" while not even trying to learn. I'd say that is very much casual. Again, being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

"plenty and casual" . AFAIK, hot usually has less than a 1000 players there. we know that it sold over a million at launch, prolly double that now.1000 may seem like a lot, bit it really isnt, when they have sold 2000 times as many copies. thats an approval rate of 0,2 %

So much implied misinformation here. It did sell 4 million PRE launch because no one had really played it and no one knew there wouldn't be much end game. It also lost a tremendous amount of players after a few months, because there was nothing to do for people who didn't want to either run dungeons or do event chains in Orr.

I had guild back then too and I watched them fall. Anet didn't introduce Fractals and ascended gear early on because those 4 million people were playing. They introduced harder, grindier stuff because so many people were leaving.

You really believe all 4 million of those people made it six months, because I was there and I can assure that that's not the case. I watched my two sons stop playing after they got their BIS gear. I watched others in my guild walk away and some of them later came back. But let's not pretend that you know why those 4 million people were playing or anyone knows what they wanted or even what a majority of them wanted..

Anet introduced harder content because people were leaving. If what they were doing was working they'd never have changed it. Why would they?

so THE MAJORITY of players left , because there was only HARDCORE content left to do in a CASUAL game...what a shockerand the harder content didnt bring the majority back either. do we need to discuss this further?

[battledrone.8315]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@keenedge.9675 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:The grenade issue is: how vines can have the intelligence to target you and throw you attacks? Like every kitten living being wants to kill you, its very annoying. Next step will be the grass will poison you.

People said ( and still say) about Orr too. It's an end-game map, you can't just run from mobs. Fight or die.

or simply uninstall and find another game. why does endgame have to be so different from the rest of it?

The endgame of Gw2 is raids, not open world, and this game has always been labeled as casual friendly.

most of base game is casual, the expansions certainly arent. and if they launch on steam in this state, the reviews are gonna tare them to pieces.

If you keep complaining about the current game's state (that has been in that state for many years now) and keep writing about quitting the game instead of learning it (

most recent one

), then why are you still here, playing the game? I can't imagine the game reverting its difficulty levels to the starting maps, it would be pretty stupid and boring.

i havent played for over 6 months now.

Lurking on the forum of the game you don't enjoy or even play (at least that's what you claim) for past 6 months just to keep complaining that you don't like it is pretty unhealthy and to be honest completely pointless.

and people still claim that this is a casual game, when only the start of it is .there is a name for that: BAIT AND SWITCH!!. have fun with the next round of DRMs.

Nah, it's still pretty casual, meaning you don't need to chase the level cap and catch up with gear treadmill after every addition to the game. Nobody said the game will not utilize its mechanics, which is apparently what you're complaining about. Like it or not, it's still an action mmorpg and leaving it at "starting zone level" would be just way too stagnant/boring.(and what is this random throw in with drms? What do you mean? What's the relevance here?)

video games has you sitting on a chair and pushing buttons, how is that healthy in any way? each click i give one of these threads makes it grow in size andrelevance, so its not pointless either. in fact , YOU are helping my side, by coming here to argue. if its only a couple of weirdos, then the thread will die in a couple of days.note, how many times we have had this kind of topic coming back. always started by different people. and the same handful of people come back to defend it.

Oh, I was talking about the mental health (and this is not supposed to be some cheap jab at you, this just seems like some unhealthy obsession to push people away from the thing they like

just because you don't like it

), not the "playing games = sitting = not moving = unhealthy!" take you're doing here.Nothing we do here is somehow "helping your case", this game will never revert to core. You claim (hopefully falsely, just to pretend you're making a strong stance or something) you don't play this game for 6 months and yet you constantly lurk this forum just to complain. This is weird.This game won't change to your desired core experience, so have fun with that o/

i read the forums, as you doi write on them, same as you ( you prolly do it WAY more than me)but. because i have a different opinion, than you, i am a crazy person now?i am not surprised to see you use the shame tactics to make me go away. but i AM offended, and i will report youif you dont like my opinion, then DONT READ IT

Did you even understand what you read? I play the game, so I participate on the forum. You don't play the game for half a year now (as you claim), you dislike it and yet you keep lurking the forum apparently just to tell

everyone else enjoying the game

that everything's so bad and people will/should stop playing (because that's pretty much all you do). Nobody cares you think people shouldn't enjoy it, if you prefer playing something else

then play something else

and participate on that game's forum. Try undestanding what you read, it was never about "just being on the forum" in a vacuum.

And I didn't say you're "crazy", mental health is about much more than just labeling someone "normal"/"crazy". Stop putting words in my mouth.

i didnt, YOU LITERALLY LABELLED ME WITH "MENTAL ISSUES" BECAUSE I HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION. since i have paid for the game, i have access to the forums.and i will be back in the next thread about the expansions too. the only ones, who can stop me are anet.

[Vayne.8563]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@BlueJin.4127 said:

@brgmns.9235 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

You may well be having trouble with the game, but that doesn't necessarily make a game hard core. If you don't agree, you can make a post on the forums and ask for the communities opinions on whether this game is hard core or not, difficult or not. My guess is only a small percentage of people will say it's hard core.

From my point of view this is a casual MMO that has become slightly less casual due to more grinding to get specific rewards. But most of that grinding is something that you don't need to do quickly and can be done over time.

Asking the hardcore base (people that post on forums aren’t the majority and by naitire are rarely casual even if they call themselves that) what they think the difficulty is doesn’t really work well lol.

Having played EQ at launch, we can probably agree it was hardcore, and most any MMO thats launched since then I’d say in today’s MMO this game is fairly hardcore for a newer player.

Veteran players don’t realize that because you have everything unlocked, fly around, have a great friend base to do what you need so honestly your opinion is so far obscured it’s basically useless. A brain surgeon telling a resident removing an appendix is trivial didn’t make it so.

The core game was fairly simple, easier than that honestly. HoT is a pain for new players. Constant events where your story takes you, half the time no one there to help you so you can barely get to the green marker. Veteran mobs are kind of tough and everywhere. It’s a maze on a massive scale up, down and underground so just knowing where to go is a pain. (green quest marker doesn’t say it’s up or down from current location like hero points do). Overall this isn’t casual by today’s standards at all.

Just running events with crowds isn’t casual. The mechanics aren’t hard, but aren’t simple either, it’s really fast paced because 90% of the people know what they are doing and the rest us are basically along for the ride so learning exactly what to do isn’t easy playing from behind most of the time. That’s not casual, that’s like joking a boss fight in a raid without any concept of what to do.

I’m not basing the game, it is what it is and I’m still playing it and like it a lot, but saying it’s causal and not hardcore by today’s standards isn’t accurate, at least to a new player.

No veteran was born good at this game. Veterans didn't have all mounts and masteries magically unlocked from the beginning of the game. They started from scratch just like any player that starts playing from today. Players improve over time. If a player is having trouble with HoT, it's not because they're casual; it's because they didn't improve enough since they started. Plenty of new and casual players have no trouble integrating into HoT. I never felt that HoT was too hard when I first stepped in and I was a casual barely a month into the game at the time. There is definitely a jump in difficulty curve, but nothing that can't be overcome by casually upgrading gears, builds, and learning to play a profession. Being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

I also cannot say that running events with crowds isn't casual. I was no veteran when I started playing HoT. When I returned to the game from a break, I had no idea what Drizzlewood was like. And I only recently got into fractals. Everybody already knew what they were doing, and I was just following them around clueless. After a couple of runs of just mindlessly following them, I learned the "mechanics" while not even trying to learn. I'd say that is very much casual. Again, being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

"plenty and casual" . AFAIK, hot usually has less than a 1000 players there. we know that it sold over a million at launch, prolly double that now.1000 may seem like a lot, bit it really isnt, when they have sold 2000 times as many copies. thats an approval rate of 0,2 %

So much implied misinformation here. It did sell 4 million PRE launch because no one had really played it and no one knew there wouldn't be much end game. It also lost a tremendous amount of players after a few months, because there was nothing to do for people who didn't want to either run dungeons or do event chains in Orr.

I had guild back then too and I watched them fall. Anet didn't introduce Fractals and ascended gear early on because those 4 million people were playing. They introduced harder, grindier stuff because so many people were leaving.

You really believe all 4 million of those people made it six months, because I was there and I can assure that that's not the case. I watched my two sons stop playing after they got their BIS gear. I watched others in my guild walk away and some of them later came back. But let's not pretend that you know why those 4 million people were playing or anyone knows what they wanted or even what a majority of them wanted..

Anet introduced harder content because people were leaving. If what they were doing was working they'd never have changed it. Why would they?

so THE MAJORITY of players left , because there was only HARDCORE content left to do in a CASUAL game...what a shockerand the harder content didnt bring the majority back either. do we need to discuss this further?

The majority players left because there were dungeons? I find that really hard to believe. The stuff in the game wasn't hard core, it was relatively easy yes even for casuals. Casual doesn't have to equal bad player. And many casuals are decent enough at the game. Many could learn dungeons with the right group, but everything else in the game at launch, was casual. And tons of players slipped away because there was nothing at all to do at end game that challenged them. When that stuff was added more people came back.

We can go back and forth on this pretty much forever. The only real problem now is people jumping into expansion content before they've learned the basics.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"battledrone.8315" said:so THE MAJORITY of players left , because there was only HARDCORE content left to do in a CASUAL game...what a shocker

You mean Arenanet removed the rest of the game? That's news to me. The only content Arenanet ever removed (outside Season 1 episodes) was one path in Twilight Arbor. Oh and some underwater combat in low level zones. That's it.

and the harder content didnt bring the majority back either. do we need to discuss this further?

The "harder content" kept the game from being killed. It's hard to bring players back when they leave a game because of its main design ideas. But it did stop the rapid drain of players. Arenanet had a choice, make Guild Wars 2 a super niche game for a tiny minority that enjoyed the core experience for what it was. Or make it a successful game that can instead attract and maintain way more players. They chose the more players, which makes sense since they are a business and they wanted Guild Wars 2 to be "the next best thing".

[Joote.4081]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:so THE MAJORITY of players left , because there was only HARDCORE content left to do in a CASUAL game...what a shocker

You mean Arenanet removed the rest of the game? That's news to me. The only content Arenanet ever removed (outside Season 1 episodes) was one path in Twilight Arbor. Oh and some underwater combat in low level zones. That's it.

and the harder content didnt bring the majority back either. do we need to discuss this further?

The "harder content" kept the game from being killed. It's hard to bring players back when they leave a game because of its main design ideas. But it did stop the rapid drain of players. Arenanet had a choice, make Guild Wars 2 a super niche game for a tiny minority that enjoyed the core experience for what it was. Or make it a successful game that can instead attract and maintain way more players. They chose the more players, which makes sense since they are a business and they wanted Guild Wars 2 to be "the next best thing".

I don't think it was the HARD bit that done anything one way or the other. It's what is cleverly hidden behind the hard bit. And that is a hellish grind to make any sort of headway.If you craft for instance, you can spend a whole day fighting and grinding your way through blood and snot. At the end of that day what do you have? A few silver, 500 useless trophy's and just enough mats to craft a pair of slippers and a cheese burger. Oh, and some trash green and blue packets that you can break down to help towards your slippers or sell for a few more silver so someone else can make a pair of slippers.

[Maikimaik.1974]

@Joote.4081 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"battledrone.8315" said:so THE MAJORITY of players left , because there was only HARDCORE content left to do in a CASUAL game...what a shocker

You mean Arenanet removed the rest of the game? That's news to me. The only content Arenanet ever removed (outside Season 1 episodes) was one path in Twilight Arbor. Oh and some underwater combat in low level zones. That's it.

and the harder content didnt bring the majority back either. do we need to discuss this further?

The "harder content" kept the game from being killed. It's hard to bring players back when they leave a game because of its main design ideas. But it did stop the rapid drain of players. Arenanet had a choice, make Guild Wars 2 a super niche game for a tiny minority that enjoyed the core experience for what it was. Or make it a successful game that can instead attract and maintain way more players. They chose the more players, which makes sense since they are a business and they wanted Guild Wars 2 to be "the next best thing".

I don't think it was the HARD bit that done anything one way or the other. It's what is cleverly hidden behind the hard bit. And that is a hellish grind to make any sort of headway.If you craft for instance, you can spend a whole day fighting and grinding your way through blood and snot. At the end of that day what do you have? A few silver, 500 useless trophy's and just enough mats to craft a pair of slippers and a cheese burger. Oh, and some trash green and blue packets that you can break down to help towards your slippers or sell for a few more silver so someone else can make a pair of slippers.

There are many different farms that can give you up to 20 gold per hour.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Joote.4081 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:so THE MAJORITY of players left , because there was only HARDCORE content left to do in a CASUAL game...what a shocker

You mean Arenanet removed the rest of the game? That's news to me. The only content Arenanet ever removed (outside Season 1 episodes) was one path in Twilight Arbor. Oh and some underwater combat in low level zones. That's it.

and the harder content didnt bring the majority back either. do we need to discuss this further?

The "harder content" kept the game from being killed. It's hard to bring players back when they leave a game because of its main design ideas. But it did stop the rapid drain of players. Arenanet had a choice, make Guild Wars 2 a super niche game for a tiny minority that enjoyed the core experience for what it was. Or make it a successful game that can instead attract and maintain way more players. They chose the more players, which makes sense since they are a business and they wanted Guild Wars 2 to be "the next best thing".

I don't think it was the HARD bit that done anything one way or the other. It's what is cleverly hidden behind the hard bit. And that is a hellish grind to make any sort of headway.If you craft for instance, you can spend a whole day fighting and grinding your way through blood and snot. At the end of that day what do you have? A few silver, 500 useless trophy's and just enough mats to craft a pair of slippers and a cheese burger. Oh, and some trash green and blue packets that you can break down to help towards your slippers or sell for a few more silver so someone else can make a pair of slippers.

I think you are missing the point here and it's normal since you weren't there during the era under discussion. When the game launched the only step after Exotic was Legendary. Exotics were always easy to acquire (like they still are) but Ascended equipment did not exist. As @"Vayne.8563" also said, the game was losing players incredibly fast because they got their BiS gear (Exotic) far too quickly and had nothing to do afterwards. Also, for your information, back then World Bosses didn't have guaranteed chests with loot, Champion loot bags did not exist either. No large scale rewarding meta events existed and since Champions dropped nothing that's to be expected, and of course dailies didn't have gold rewards, this all meant going from the really easy to acquire Exotics to the nearly impossible to acquire Legendary weapons was a gigantic step even for the most loyal players. Due to the above limitations, Ascended crafting of today is a total joke compared to what Legendary crafting used to be.

Arenanet figured players were leaving and had to do something to prevent that from happening, so every single release after launch has seen the inclusion of harder and more challenging content. First one was the Mad King's lab, then came Southsun Cove with the Young Karka particularly being of interest there, then Wintersday with the Toy Princess confusion spam. Once Season 1 of the Living World started Arenanet introduced new foe types for us to fight, Molten Alliance, Aetherblades, Scarlet's Minions and the Toxic Alliance. All of them were much more challenging than the Risen of Orr. You can find remnants of those scattered around the world, in the Open World around Kessex Hills or Gendaran Fields you can find Toxic Alliance mobs, in Fractals you can find Molten Alliance, Aetherblades and Scarlet Minion mobs and their bosses and in the Edge of Mists you can find Aetherblades. So you can "test" yourself against Season 1 mobs that no longer exist as regular foes elsewhere.

Season 2 pushed everything even further. In fact, some Season 2 mobs were so powerful that they had to be nerfed when Heart of Thorns launched. You can find some of the original mobs as Veterans in Iron Marches. Still, for those that were there, they provided a nice "Step" to then move on to Heart of Thorns enemies. @battledrone.8315 said that players left the game because there was only hardcore content left, when in reality players left because there was no content left... no content that felt worth repeating at least. The game was awesome the first time around, finding new things to do, experiencing story in events without following markers and so on, but once that novelty wore off and you found out how many rewards that content actually gave you... and considering the costs of Legendary weapons, yeah it forced many players to quit.

[Vayne.8563]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Joote.4081 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:so THE MAJORITY of players left , because there was only HARDCORE content left to do in a CASUAL game...what a shocker

You mean Arenanet removed the rest of the game? That's news to me. The only content Arenanet ever removed (outside Season 1 episodes) was one path in Twilight Arbor. Oh and some underwater combat in low level zones. That's it.

and the harder content didnt bring the majority back either. do we need to discuss this further?

The "harder content" kept the game from being killed. It's hard to bring players back when they leave a game because of its main design ideas. But it did stop the rapid drain of players. Arenanet had a choice, make Guild Wars 2 a super niche game for a tiny minority that enjoyed the core experience for what it was. Or make it a successful game that can instead attract and maintain way more players. They chose the more players, which makes sense since they are a business and they wanted Guild Wars 2 to be "the next best thing".

I don't think it was the HARD bit that done anything one way or the other. It's what is cleverly hidden behind the hard bit. And that is a hellish grind to make any sort of headway.If you craft for instance, you can spend a whole day fighting and grinding your way through blood and snot. At the end of that day what do you have? A few silver, 500 useless trophy's and just enough mats to craft a pair of slippers and a cheese burger. Oh, and some trash green and blue packets that you can break down to help towards your slippers or sell for a few more silver so someone else can make a pair of slippers.

I think you are missing the point here and it's normal since you weren't there during the era under discussion. When the game launched the only step after Exotic was Legendary. Exotics were always easy to acquire (like they still are) but Ascended equipment did not exist. As @"Vayne.8563" also said, the game was losing players incredibly fast because they got their BiS gear (Exotic) far too quickly and had nothing to do afterwards. Also, for your information, back then World Bosses didn't have guaranteed chests with loot, Champion loot bags did not exist either. No large scale rewarding meta events existed and since Champions dropped nothing that's to be expected, and of course dailies didn't have gold rewards, this all meant going from the really easy to acquire Exotics to the nearly impossible to acquire Legendary weapons was a gigantic step even for the most loyal players. Due to the above limitations, Ascended crafting of today is a total joke compared to what Legendary crafting used to be.

Arenanet figured players were leaving and had to do something to prevent that from happening, so every single release after launch has seen the inclusion of harder and more challenging content. First one was the Mad King's lab, then came Southsun Cove with the Young Karka particularly being of interest there, then Wintersday with the Toy Princess confusion spam. Once Season 1 of the Living World started Arenanet introduced new foe types for us to fight, Molten Alliance, Aetherblades, Scarlet's Minions and the Toxic Alliance. All of them were much more challenging than the Risen of Orr. You can find remnants of those scattered around the world, in the Open World around Kessex Hills or Gendaran Fields you can find Toxic Alliance mobs, in Fractals you can find Molten Alliance and Scarlet Minion mobs and their bosses and in the Edge of Mists you can find Aetherblades. So you can "test" yourself against Season 1 mobs that no longer exist as regular foes elsewhere.

Season 2 pushed everything even further. In fact, some Season 2 mobs were so powerful that they had to be nerfed when Heart of Thorns launched. You can find some of the original mobs as Veterans in Iron Marches. Still, for those that were there, they provided a nice "Step" to then move on to Heart of Thorns enemies. @battledrone.8315 said that players left the game because there was only hardcore content left, when in reality players left because there was no content left... no content that felt worth repeating at least. The game was awesome the first time around, finding new things to do, experiencing story in events without following markers and so on, but once that novelty wore off and you found out how many rewards that content actually gave you... and considering the costs of Legendary weapons, yeah it forced many players to quit.

This is a great post. To add to this, this game has always been, and remains today, a game of trickles. Rewards trickle in, but the mats you get ARE the rewards. It's true you got less early on but everything was cheaper early on too. I mean a commander tag started at 100 gold.

But the idea that people left this game because it was too difficult...well...it's probably true for only a very small percent of the population.

Really it's all about balance. The balance isn't going to be right for everyone, but I think for the most part, Anet has gotten the balance relatively close. There'll always be outliers. People for who the game is too hard or people for who the game is too easy. But then you have Fractals which you can do at tier 1 or you can do at Tier 4. Your level of involvement is up to you. And world bosses and metas allow less skilled players to be carried..

I think the balance between easy and hard is pretty good. Not perfect, but because everyone is different, it's not bad either. You could fine tune things endless, make it right for some people and it will become wrong for others.

[Sobx.1758]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Also wanted to add a couple of general combat tips:

1) Keep your eye on the enemy, not on your skill bar. Get into the habit of making quick glances, but don't allow your eyes to remain on your bar. I know it seems obvious, but it's easy to not realize you're doing it and a fraction of a second is all it takes to miss what should be obvious visual cues. In fact, you might try some practice runs against bosses that give you trouble where instead of focusing on dealing damage you just watch the boss for those visual cues and see how well you can avoid them when you aren't busy trying to perform a rotation.

2) Stay in motion. If you notice many of the attacks in this fight are projectiles or have "spreading" circles. The indicator appears under your feet well before the attack lands, so if you're already moving you shouldn't have to dodge. This will let you reserve those dodges for attacks that can't be avoided by simply moving out of the way. If you're at close range, strafe in a tight circle around the boss. Especially against larger, slower enemies this will often force them to turn before they can attack you and directional attacks are likely to miss.

if i can miss it in a fraction of second, then it isnt that obvious. that is literally the blink of an eye. and circlestrafing is often impossible due to knockbacks and adds.and none of them are casual mechanics either.

Usually it's not just "fraction of second".Usually you CAN easly keep circling the boss."Casual" doesn't mean you always win no matter what you do. The game doesn't stop being "casual" just because.... it has mechanics or rules.

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@keenedge.9675 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:The grenade issue is: how vines can have the intelligence to target you and throw you attacks? Like every kitten living being wants to kill you, its very annoying. Next step will be the grass will poison you.

People said ( and still say) about Orr too. It's an end-game map, you can't just run from mobs. Fight or die.

or simply uninstall and find another game. why does endgame have to be so different from the rest of it?

The endgame of Gw2 is raids, not open world, and this game has always been labeled as casual friendly.

most of base game is casual, the expansions certainly arent. and if they launch on steam in this state, the reviews are gonna tare them to pieces.

If you keep complaining about the current game's state (that has been in that state for many years now) and keep writing about quitting the game instead of learning it (

most recent one

), then why are you still here, playing the game? I can't imagine the game reverting its difficulty levels to the starting maps, it would be pretty stupid and boring.

i havent played for over 6 months now.

Lurking on the forum of the game you don't enjoy or even play (at least that's what you claim) for past 6 months just to keep complaining that you don't like it is pretty unhealthy and to be honest completely pointless.

and people still claim that this is a casual game, when only the start of it is .there is a name for that: BAIT AND SWITCH!!. have fun with the next round of DRMs.

Nah, it's still pretty casual, meaning you don't need to chase the level cap and catch up with gear treadmill after every addition to the game. Nobody said the game will not utilize its mechanics, which is apparently what you're complaining about. Like it or not, it's still an action mmorpg and leaving it at "starting zone level" would be just way too stagnant/boring.(and what is this random throw in with drms? What do you mean? What's the relevance here?)

video games has you sitting on a chair and pushing buttons, how is that healthy in any way? each click i give one of these threads makes it grow in size andrelevance, so its not pointless either. in fact , YOU are helping my side, by coming here to argue. if its only a couple of weirdos, then the thread will die in a couple of days.note, how many times we have had this kind of topic coming back. always started by different people. and the same handful of people come back to defend it.

Oh, I was talking about the mental health (and this is not supposed to be some cheap jab at you, this just seems like some unhealthy obsession to push people away from the thing they like

just because you don't like it

), not the "playing games = sitting = not moving = unhealthy!" take you're doing here.Nothing we do here is somehow "helping your case", this game will never revert to core. You claim (hopefully falsely, just to pretend you're making a strong stance or something) you don't play this game for 6 months and yet you constantly lurk this forum just to complain. This is weird.This game won't change to your desired core experience, so have fun with that o/

i read the forums, as you doi write on them, same as you ( you prolly do it WAY more than me)but. because i have a different opinion, than you, i am a crazy person now?i am not surprised to see you use the shame tactics to make me go away. but i AM offended, and i will report youif you dont like my opinion, then DONT READ IT

Did you even understand what you read? I play the game, so I participate on the forum. You don't play the game for half a year now (as you claim), you dislike it and yet you keep lurking the forum apparently just to tell

everyone else enjoying the game

that everything's so bad and people will/should stop playing (because that's pretty much all you do). Nobody cares you think people shouldn't enjoy it, if you prefer playing something else

then play something else

and participate on that game's forum. Try undestanding what you read, it was never about "just being on the forum" in a vacuum.

And I didn't say you're "crazy", mental health is about much more than just labeling someone "normal"/"crazy". Stop putting words in my mouth.

i didnt, YOU LITERALLY LABELLED ME WITH "MENTAL ISSUES" BECAUSE I HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION.

Nope, "your different opinion" has nothing to do with anything I wrote, so stop putting words in my mouth.

and i will be back in the next thread about the expansions too. the only ones, who can stop me are anet.

Nobody "wants to stop you", your obsession about game "you don't even play" is just weird -have fun with that though.

[ASP.8093]

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Here is solo of the avatar of Balthazar hero point in Auric Basin. I stand in place at melee range and I neither dodge nor use any active healing skills. Instead, I use high damage to push the phases quickly. The fight only lasts 40 seconds, with the boss either running away, dodging, taunting me or being stunned for about a third of that time. I am using a condi tank (full trailblazer stats) build with huge passive mitigation so the boss isn't able to hit me very hard and again because I push the phases quickly, he isn't able to capitalize on the double buff he gains when you kill his dogs as we roll right into the 50% breakbar after he gains it.

This is a viable open world build and not a gimmick. It needs no passive stunbreak or emergency save because it's very tanky and most open world enemies melt too quickly to its damage to ever be a threat even if they do spam knockbacks. You can play this way if you want to. It is an option if dodging is not your thing.

Worth noting that, for that particular one, there's also an alternative approach where someone just spams invisibility on you while you activate the mastery point and don't bother fighting the boss at all. (Possibly someone who also ported you into the boss room because you don't have the Exalted special ability to access it yet.) That kind of "ask for help" thing is heavily incentivized by the HoT maps, and it annoys the heck out of some players but there's almost always someone around who will help you do whatever weird map-completion thing you need doing.

I was doing the Gleam of Sentience scavenger hunt stuff (in Season 3) this weekend, and there were several instances where I'd guide a player to a token or vice versa, or we'd work together to get an event chain, or someone would recommend a good video guide in map chat.

[battledrone.8315]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@BlueJin.4127 said:

@brgmns.9235 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

You may well be having trouble with the game, but that doesn't necessarily make a game hard core. If you don't agree, you can make a post on the forums and ask for the communities opinions on whether this game is hard core or not, difficult or not. My guess is only a small percentage of people will say it's hard core.

From my point of view this is a casual MMO that has become slightly less casual due to more grinding to get specific rewards. But most of that grinding is something that you don't need to do quickly and can be done over time.

Asking the hardcore base (people that post on forums aren’t the majority and by naitire are rarely casual even if they call themselves that) what they think the difficulty is doesn’t really work well lol.

Having played EQ at launch, we can probably agree it was hardcore, and most any MMO thats launched since then I’d say in today’s MMO this game is fairly hardcore for a newer player.

Veteran players don’t realize that because you have everything unlocked, fly around, have a great friend base to do what you need so honestly your opinion is so far obscured it’s basically useless. A brain surgeon telling a resident removing an appendix is trivial didn’t make it so.

The core game was fairly simple, easier than that honestly. HoT is a pain for new players. Constant events where your story takes you, half the time no one there to help you so you can barely get to the green marker. Veteran mobs are kind of tough and everywhere. It’s a maze on a massive scale up, down and underground so just knowing where to go is a pain. (green quest marker doesn’t say it’s up or down from current location like hero points do). Overall this isn’t casual by today’s standards at all.

Just running events with crowds isn’t casual. The mechanics aren’t hard, but aren’t simple either, it’s really fast paced because 90% of the people know what they are doing and the rest us are basically along for the ride so learning exactly what to do isn’t easy playing from behind most of the time. That’s not casual, that’s like joking a boss fight in a raid without any concept of what to do.

I’m not basing the game, it is what it is and I’m still playing it and like it a lot, but saying it’s causal and not hardcore by today’s standards isn’t accurate, at least to a new player.

No veteran was born good at this game. Veterans didn't have all mounts and masteries magically unlocked from the beginning of the game. They started from scratch just like any player that starts playing from today. Players improve over time. If a player is having trouble with HoT, it's not because they're casual; it's because they didn't improve enough since they started. Plenty of new and casual players have no trouble integrating into HoT. I never felt that HoT was too hard when I first stepped in and I was a casual barely a month into the game at the time. There is definitely a jump in difficulty curve, but nothing that can't be overcome by casually upgrading gears, builds, and learning to play a profession. Being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

I also cannot say that running events with crowds isn't casual. I was no veteran when I started playing HoT. When I returned to the game from a break, I had no idea what Drizzlewood was like. And I only recently got into fractals. Everybody already knew what they were doing, and I was just following them around clueless. After a couple of runs of just mindlessly following them, I learned the "mechanics" while not even trying to learn. I'd say that is very much casual. Again, being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

"plenty and casual" . AFAIK, hot usually has less than a 1000 players there. we know that it sold over a million at launch, prolly double that now.1000 may seem like a lot, bit it really isnt, when they have sold 2000 times as many copies. thats an approval rate of 0,2 %

So much implied misinformation here. It did sell 4 million PRE launch because no one had really played it and no one knew there wouldn't be much end game. It also lost a tremendous amount of players after a few months, because there was nothing to do for people who didn't want to either run dungeons or do event chains in Orr.

I had guild back then too and I watched them fall. Anet didn't introduce Fractals and ascended gear early on because those 4 million people were playing. They introduced harder, grindier stuff because so many people were leaving.

You really believe all 4 million of those people made it six months, because I was there and I can assure that that's not the case. I watched my two sons stop playing after they got their BIS gear. I watched others in my guild walk away and some of them later came back. But let's not pretend that you know why those 4 million people were playing or anyone knows what they wanted or even what a majority of them wanted..

Anet introduced harder content because people were leaving. If what they were doing was working they'd never have changed it. Why would they?

so THE MAJORITY of players left , because there was only HARDCORE content left to do in a CASUAL game...what a shockerand the harder content didnt bring the majority back either. do we need to discuss this further?

The majority players left because there were dungeons? I find that really hard to believe. The stuff in the game wasn't hard core, it was relatively easy yes even for casuals. Casual doesn't have to equal bad player. And many casuals are decent enough at the game. Many could learn dungeons with the right group, but everything else in the game at launch, was casual. And tons of players slipped away because there was nothing at all to do at end game that challenged them. When that stuff was added more people came back.

We can go back and forth on this pretty much forever. The only real problem now is people jumping into expansion content before they've learned the basics.

if i can finish the core game without learning the basics, then there is something wrong WITH THE GAME. and if "the basics" only become relevant in the expansionsthen it isnt "basic" but "advanced". you wanna try again?

[BlueJin.4127]

Core game takes zero skill because players who are brand new to the game must be able to play without getting killed repeatedly. However, that does not automatically make HoT and PoF open world "advanced." Even when you apply for a minimum wage job that claims you do not need any skills or prior job experience, you still have to learn the basics once you start that job. Learning the basics for a low skill job does not automatically make it an advanced job. Like many games, GW2 just does a poor job of gradual difficulty increase, and it also does a poor job training players the basics. However, once you learn the basics, which really doesn't take more than a few minutes, you can go through much of HoT and PoF open world without problems because they're not advanced contents.

Like I said, a new player can copy a veteran's build. It doesn't have to be a very good build, just copy any half decent build. It takes seconds to copy a build. Buy some cheap gears that I mentioned. If the player has 0 gold, 2~3 days of dailies will get the player 4~6 gold, enough to get the low budget gears I mentioned (though a level 80 player should already have 4~6 gold). Then, all that player needs is to learn which 2~3 skills are the best skills to spam. There's no need to learn the proper rotation, just know which 2~3 skills to use often.

[Vayne.8563]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@BlueJin.4127 said:

@brgmns.9235 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

You may well be having trouble with the game, but that doesn't necessarily make a game hard core. If you don't agree, you can make a post on the forums and ask for the communities opinions on whether this game is hard core or not, difficult or not. My guess is only a small percentage of people will say it's hard core.

From my point of view this is a casual MMO that has become slightly less casual due to more grinding to get specific rewards. But most of that grinding is something that you don't need to do quickly and can be done over time.

Asking the hardcore base (people that post on forums aren’t the majority and by naitire are rarely casual even if they call themselves that) what they think the difficulty is doesn’t really work well lol.

Having played EQ at launch, we can probably agree it was hardcore, and most any MMO thats launched since then I’d say in today’s MMO this game is fairly hardcore for a newer player.

Veteran players don’t realize that because you have everything unlocked, fly around, have a great friend base to do what you need so honestly your opinion is so far obscured it’s basically useless. A brain surgeon telling a resident removing an appendix is trivial didn’t make it so.

The core game was fairly simple, easier than that honestly. HoT is a pain for new players. Constant events where your story takes you, half the time no one there to help you so you can barely get to the green marker. Veteran mobs are kind of tough and everywhere. It’s a maze on a massive scale up, down and underground so just knowing where to go is a pain. (green quest marker doesn’t say it’s up or down from current location like hero points do). Overall this isn’t casual by today’s standards at all.

Just running events with crowds isn’t casual. The mechanics aren’t hard, but aren’t simple either, it’s really fast paced because 90% of the people know what they are doing and the rest us are basically along for the ride so learning exactly what to do isn’t easy playing from behind most of the time. That’s not casual, that’s like joking a boss fight in a raid without any concept of what to do.

I’m not basing the game, it is what it is and I’m still playing it and like it a lot, but saying it’s causal and not hardcore by today’s standards isn’t accurate, at least to a new player.

No veteran was born good at this game. Veterans didn't have all mounts and masteries magically unlocked from the beginning of the game. They started from scratch just like any player that starts playing from today. Players improve over time. If a player is having trouble with HoT, it's not because they're casual; it's because they didn't improve enough since they started. Plenty of new and casual players have no trouble integrating into HoT. I never felt that HoT was too hard when I first stepped in and I was a casual barely a month into the game at the time. There is definitely a jump in difficulty curve, but nothing that can't be overcome by casually upgrading gears, builds, and learning to play a profession. Being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

I also cannot say that running events with crowds isn't casual. I was no veteran when I started playing HoT. When I returned to the game from a break, I had no idea what Drizzlewood was like. And I only recently got into fractals. Everybody already knew what they were doing, and I was just following them around clueless. After a couple of runs of just mindlessly following them, I learned the "mechanics" while not even trying to learn. I'd say that is very much casual. Again, being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

"plenty and casual" . AFAIK, hot usually has less than a 1000 players there. we know that it sold over a million at launch, prolly double that now.1000 may seem like a lot, bit it really isnt, when they have sold 2000 times as many copies. thats an approval rate of 0,2 %

So much implied misinformation here. It did sell 4 million PRE launch because no one had really played it and no one knew there wouldn't be much end game. It also lost a tremendous amount of players after a few months, because there was nothing to do for people who didn't want to either run dungeons or do event chains in Orr.

I had guild back then too and I watched them fall. Anet didn't introduce Fractals and ascended gear early on because those 4 million people were playing. They introduced harder, grindier stuff because so many people were leaving.

You really believe all 4 million of those people made it six months, because I was there and I can assure that that's not the case. I watched my two sons stop playing after they got their BIS gear. I watched others in my guild walk away and some of them later came back. But let's not pretend that you know why those 4 million people were playing or anyone knows what they wanted or even what a majority of them wanted..

Anet introduced harder content because people were leaving. If what they were doing was working they'd never have changed it. Why would they?

so THE MAJORITY of players left , because there was only HARDCORE content left to do in a CASUAL game...what a shockerand the harder content didnt bring the majority back either. do we need to discuss this further?

The majority players left because there were dungeons? I find that really hard to believe. The stuff in the game wasn't hard core, it was relatively easy yes even for casuals. Casual doesn't have to equal bad player. And many casuals are decent enough at the game. Many could learn dungeons with the right group, but everything else in the game at launch, was casual. And tons of players slipped away because there was nothing at all to do at end game that challenged them. When that stuff was added more people came back.

We can go back and forth on this pretty much forever. The only real problem now is people jumping into expansion content before they've learned the basics.

if i can finish the core game without learning the basics, then there is something wrong WITH THE GAME. and if "the basics" only become relevant in the expansionsthen it isnt "basic" but "advanced". you wanna try again?

I don't have to try again. You're making a claim you can't back up. You believe this so strongly that the amount of confirmation bias in your replies is too vast to comment on.

The basics aren't only relevant in the expansion. There is a ramp up. It's already been mention in this thread.

Dry Top is harder than Orr. Silverwastes is harder than Dry Top. Season 2 is harder than the core story. And of course, dungeons and fractals exist in the core game and if you play them you learn how to play. It's not really Anet's fault that you're skipping those.

Plenty of casual players played through and learned how to play because learning the basics was important to them. It was a focus. Some people just walk around and look at the pretty colors and range everything with a pet, or play a necro with minions and they think they're good enough because they can get through most of the core world. But the core world even still has some challenges that was task them.

Doing the harder events in the core world would train you. The events from Season 1 like the toxic spore events are harder with harder enemies. Orr itself has some pretty hard enemies. If you just avoid and ignore them because they're hard enemies instead of learning how to take them on, you're just ignoring the game.

Does the game have a learning curve at points? Sure it does. Does that mean that the game isn't casual. Nope. Everything has a learning curve. Not every casual has the same attitude. Not every casual thinks the same. Claiming all casuals think like you is probably a mistake. The same way that all casuals don't think like me.

[battledrone.8315]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Also wanted to add a couple of general combat tips:

1) Keep your eye on the enemy, not on your skill bar. Get into the habit of making quick glances, but don't allow your eyes to remain on your bar. I know it seems obvious, but it's easy to not realize you're doing it and a fraction of a second is all it takes to miss what should be obvious visual cues. In fact, you might try some practice runs against bosses that give you trouble where instead of focusing on dealing damage you just watch the boss for those visual cues and see how well you can avoid them when you aren't busy trying to perform a rotation.

2) Stay in motion. If you notice many of the attacks in this fight are projectiles or have "spreading" circles. The indicator appears under your feet well before the attack lands, so if you're already moving you shouldn't have to dodge. This will let you reserve those dodges for attacks that can't be avoided by simply moving out of the way. If you're at close range, strafe in a tight circle around the boss. Especially against larger, slower enemies this will often force them to turn before they can attack you and directional attacks are likely to miss.

if i can miss it in a fraction of second, then it isnt that obvious. that is literally the blink of an eye. and circlestrafing is often impossible due to knockbacks and adds.and none of them are casual mechanics either.

Usually it's not just "fraction of second".Usually you CAN easly keep circling the boss."Casual" doesn't mean you always win no matter what you do. The game doesn't stop being "casual" just because.... it has mechanics or rules.

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@keenedge.9675 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:The grenade issue is: how vines can have the intelligence to target you and throw you attacks? Like every kitten living being wants to kill you, its very annoying. Next step will be the grass will poison you.

People said ( and still say) about Orr too. It's an end-game map, you can't just run from mobs. Fight or die.

or simply uninstall and find another game. why does endgame have to be so different from the rest of it?

The endgame of Gw2 is raids, not open world, and this game has always been labeled as casual friendly.

most of base game is casual, the expansions certainly arent. and if they launch on steam in this state, the reviews are gonna tare them to pieces.

If you keep complaining about the current game's state (that has been in that state for many years now) and keep writing about quitting the game instead of learning it (

most recent one

), then why are you still here, playing the game? I can't imagine the game reverting its difficulty levels to the starting maps, it would be pretty stupid and boring.

i havent played for over 6 months now.

Lurking on the forum of the game you don't enjoy or even play (at least that's what you claim) for past 6 months just to keep complaining that you don't like it is pretty unhealthy and to be honest completely pointless.

and people still claim that this is a casual game, when only the start of it is .there is a name for that: BAIT AND SWITCH!!. have fun with the next round of DRMs.

Nah, it's still pretty casual, meaning you don't need to chase the level cap and catch up with gear treadmill after every addition to the game. Nobody said the game will not utilize its mechanics, which is apparently what you're complaining about. Like it or not, it's still an action mmorpg and leaving it at "starting zone level" would be just way too stagnant/boring.(and what is this random throw in with drms? What do you mean? What's the relevance here?)

video games has you sitting on a chair and pushing buttons, how is that healthy in any way? each click i give one of these threads makes it grow in size andrelevance, so its not pointless either. in fact , YOU are helping my side, by coming here to argue. if its only a couple of weirdos, then the thread will die in a couple of days.note, how many times we have had this kind of topic coming back. always started by different people. and the same handful of people come back to defend it.

Oh, I was talking about the mental health (and this is not supposed to be some cheap jab at you, this just seems like some unhealthy obsession to push people away from the thing they like

just because you don't like it

), not the "playing games = sitting = not moving = unhealthy!" take you're doing here.Nothing we do here is somehow "helping your case", this game will never revert to core. You claim (hopefully falsely, just to pretend you're making a strong stance or something) you don't play this game for 6 months and yet you constantly lurk this forum just to complain. This is weird.This game won't change to your desired core experience, so have fun with that o/

i read the forums, as you doi write on them, same as you ( you prolly do it WAY more than me)but. because i have a different opinion, than you, i am a crazy person now?i am not surprised to see you use the shame tactics to make me go away. but i AM offended, and i will report youif you dont like my opinion, then DONT READ IT

Did you even understand what you read? I play the game, so I participate on the forum. You don't play the game for half a year now (as you claim), you dislike it and yet you keep lurking the forum apparently just to tell

everyone else enjoying the game

that everything's so bad and people will/should stop playing (because that's pretty much all you do). Nobody cares you think people shouldn't enjoy it, if you prefer playing something else

then play something else

and participate on that game's forum. Try undestanding what you read, it was never about "just being on the forum" in a vacuum.

And I didn't say you're "crazy", mental health is about much more than just labeling someone "normal"/"crazy". Stop putting words in my mouth.

i didnt, YOU LITERALLY LABELLED ME WITH "MENTAL ISSUES" BECAUSE I HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION.

Nope, "your different opinion" has nothing to do with anything I wrote, so stop putting words in my mouth.

and i will be back in the next thread about the expansions too. the only ones, who can stop me are anet.

Nobody "wants to stop you", your obsession about game "you don't even play" is just weird -have fun with that though.

yep, way more fun than in the expansions. that should put things into perspective. its also obvious, why the aggro range is so much bigger in pof.its motivation for players to grind out the skyscale. they actually used a nasty F2P design in a PAID EXPANSION.

[battledrone.8315]

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@BlueJin.4127 said:

@brgmns.9235 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

You may well be having trouble with the game, but that doesn't necessarily make a game hard core. If you don't agree, you can make a post on the forums and ask for the communities opinions on whether this game is hard core or not, difficult or not. My guess is only a small percentage of people will say it's hard core.

From my point of view this is a casual MMO that has become slightly less casual due to more grinding to get specific rewards. But most of that grinding is something that you don't need to do quickly and can be done over time.

Asking the hardcore base (people that post on forums aren’t the majority and by naitire are rarely casual even if they call themselves that) what they think the difficulty is doesn’t really work well lol.

Having played EQ at launch, we can probably agree it was hardcore, and most any MMO thats launched since then I’d say in today’s MMO this game is fairly hardcore for a newer player.

Veteran players don’t realize that because you have everything unlocked, fly around, have a great friend base to do what you need so honestly your opinion is so far obscured it’s basically useless. A brain surgeon telling a resident removing an appendix is trivial didn’t make it so.

The core game was fairly simple, easier than that honestly. HoT is a pain for new players. Constant events where your story takes you, half the time no one there to help you so you can barely get to the green marker. Veteran mobs are kind of tough and everywhere. It’s a maze on a massive scale up, down and underground so just knowing where to go is a pain. (green quest marker doesn’t say it’s up or down from current location like hero points do). Overall this isn’t casual by today’s standards at all.

Just running events with crowds isn’t casual. The mechanics aren’t hard, but aren’t simple either, it’s really fast paced because 90% of the people know what they are doing and the rest us are basically along for the ride so learning exactly what to do isn’t easy playing from behind most of the time. That’s not casual, that’s like joking a boss fight in a raid without any concept of what to do.

I’m not basing the game, it is what it is and I’m still playing it and like it a lot, but saying it’s causal and not hardcore by today’s standards isn’t accurate, at least to a new player.

No veteran was born good at this game. Veterans didn't have all mounts and masteries magically unlocked from the beginning of the game. They started from scratch just like any player that starts playing from today. Players improve over time. If a player is having trouble with HoT, it's not because they're casual; it's because they didn't improve enough since they started. Plenty of new and casual players have no trouble integrating into HoT. I never felt that HoT was too hard when I first stepped in and I was a casual barely a month into the game at the time. There is definitely a jump in difficulty curve, but nothing that can't be overcome by casually upgrading gears, builds, and learning to play a profession. Being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

I also cannot say that running events with crowds isn't casual. I was no veteran when I started playing HoT. When I returned to the game from a break, I had no idea what Drizzlewood was like. And I only recently got into fractals. Everybody already knew what they were doing, and I was just following them around clueless. After a couple of runs of just mindlessly following them, I learned the "mechanics" while not even trying to learn. I'd say that is very much casual. Again, being a casual doesn't mean not learning or improving.

"plenty and casual" . AFAIK, hot usually has less than a 1000 players there. we know that it sold over a million at launch, prolly double that now.1000 may seem like a lot, bit it really isnt, when they have sold 2000 times as many copies. thats an approval rate of 0,2 %

So much implied misinformation here. It did sell 4 million PRE launch because no one had really played it and no one knew there wouldn't be much end game. It also lost a tremendous amount of players after a few months, because there was nothing to do for people who didn't want to either run dungeons or do event chains in Orr.

I had guild back then too and I watched them fall. Anet didn't introduce Fractals and ascended gear early on because those 4 million people were playing. They introduced harder, grindier stuff because so many people were leaving.

You really believe all 4 million of those people made it six months, because I was there and I can assure that that's not the case. I watched my two sons stop playing after they got their BIS gear. I watched others in my guild walk away and some of them later came back. But let's not pretend that you know why those 4 million people were playing or anyone knows what they wanted or even what a majority of them wanted..

Anet introduced harder content because people were leaving. If what they were doing was working they'd never have changed it. Why would they?

so THE MAJORITY of players left , because there was only HARDCORE content left to do in a CASUAL game...what a shockerand the harder content didnt bring the majority back either. do we need to discuss this further?

The majority players left because there were dungeons? I find that really hard to believe. The stuff in the game wasn't hard core, it was relatively easy yes even for casuals. Casual doesn't have to equal bad player. And many casuals are decent enough at the game. Many could learn dungeons with the right group, but everything else in the game at launch, was casual. And tons of players slipped away because there was nothing at all to do at end game that challenged them. When that stuff was added more people came back.

We can go back and forth on this pretty much forever. The only real problem now is people jumping into expansion content before they've learned the basics.

if i can finish the core game without learning the basics, then there is something wrong WITH THE GAME. and if "the basics" only become relevant in the expansionsthen it isnt "basic" but "advanced". you wanna try again?

I don't have to try again. You're making a claim you can't back up. You believe this so strongly that the amount of confirmation bias in your replies is too vast to comment on.

The basics aren't only relevant in the expansion. There is a ramp up. It's already been mention in this thread.

Dry Top is harder than Orr. Silverwastes is harder than Dry Top. Season 2 is harder than the core story. And of course, dungeons and fractals exist in the core game and if you play them you learn how to play. It's not really Anet's fault that you're skipping those.

Plenty of casual players played through and learned how to play because learning the basics was important to them. It was a focus. Some people just walk around and look at the pretty colors and range everything with a pet, or play a necro with minions and they think they're good enough because they can get through most of the core world. But the core world even still has some challenges that was task them.

Doing the harder events in the core world would train you. The events from Season 1 like the toxic spore events are harder with harder enemies. Orr itself has some pretty hard enemies. If you just avoid and ignore them because they're hard enemies instead of learning how to take them on, you're just ignoring the game.

Does the game have a learning curve at points? Sure it does. Does that mean that the game isn't casual. Nope. Everything has a learning curve. Not every casual has the same attitude. Not every casual thinks the same. Claiming all casuals think like you is probably a mistake. The same way that all casuals don't think like me.

if i can finish the core game without learning the basics, then there is something wrong WITH THE GAME. and if "the basics" only become relevant in the expansions

then it isnt "basic" but "advanced". you wanna try again?

[ASP.8093]

@"battledrone.8315" said:its also obvious, why the aggro range is so much bigger in pof.its motivation for players to grind out the skyscale. they actually used a nasty F2P design in a PAID EXPANSION.

This is simply incorrect.

The POF maps were designed for the four basic mounts plus the Griffon. You can just dodge through most enemy packs on a simple Raptor — the big exception is Forged roadblocks but you can see those coming. Every one of the other mounts opens up new ways to navigate all the maps, culminating in soaring around on the Griffon as your big reward for the fancy scavenger hunt at the end. (And they even held the Griffon back as bit as a surprise; I can't find it right now but there's a pretty good post somewhere about how much of a shock it was to be one of the first people to unlock the capstone power, Aerial Finesse, which turns it from a little flap-flap glider into an screaming rocket.)

Skyscale lets you navigate any map in lazy-mode but it's often way better in pre-POF maps that weren't designed for mounts at all (absolutely godlike in Verdant Brink, especially) and in post-Skyscale maps that were always made with the Skyscale in mind more so than in POF.

If you want to see an example of Skyscale-centric design, look at Dragonfall: a lot of ledges that are a bit too high for the Springer to jump, there are rather few open basins where you can really get max value from the Griffon swoop, the Jackal portals are present but aren't used for any cool puzzles or secrets, and the Roller Beetle does real well on the main "roads" but sometimes the bridge is just broken when you get to it. That's a map that's actively shaped to make the Skyscales feel stronger than the other mounts, both to encourage you to do the Skyscale achievement stuff and to give you a reason to pick up the "trainer" Skyscales around the map instead of just using the familiar mounts you already have to do everything.

[BlueJin.4127]

After basics would be intermediate. Advanced comes after intermediate. So, no, something that isn't basic isn't automatically advanced.

[Vayne.8563]

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:Also wanted to add a couple of general combat tips:

1) Keep your eye on the enemy, not on your skill bar. Get into the habit of making quick glances, but don't allow your eyes to remain on your bar. I know it seems obvious, but it's easy to not realize you're doing it and a fraction of a second is all it takes to miss what should be obvious visual cues. In fact, you might try some practice runs against bosses that give you trouble where instead of focusing on dealing damage you just watch the boss for those visual cues and see how well you can avoid them when you aren't busy trying to perform a rotation.

2) Stay in motion. If you notice many of the attacks in this fight are projectiles or have "spreading" circles. The indicator appears under your feet well before the attack lands, so if you're already moving you shouldn't have to dodge. This will let you reserve those dodges for attacks that can't be avoided by simply moving out of the way. If you're at close range, strafe in a tight circle around the boss. Especially against larger, slower enemies this will often force them to turn before they can attack you and directional attacks are likely to miss.

if i can miss it in a fraction of second, then it isnt that obvious. that is literally the blink of an eye. and circlestrafing is often impossible due to knockbacks and adds.and none of them are casual mechanics either.

Usually it's not just "fraction of second".Usually you CAN easly keep circling the boss."Casual" doesn't mean you always win no matter what you do. The game doesn't stop being "casual" just because.... it has mechanics or rules.

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@keenedge.9675 said:

@frareanselm.1925 said:The grenade issue is: how vines can have the intelligence to target you and throw you attacks? Like every kitten living being wants to kill you, its very annoying. Next step will be the grass will poison you.

People said ( and still say) about Orr too. It's an end-game map, you can't just run from mobs. Fight or die.

or simply uninstall and find another game. why does endgame have to be so different from the rest of it?

The endgame of Gw2 is raids, not open world, and this game has always been labeled as casual friendly.

most of base game is casual, the expansions certainly arent. and if they launch on steam in this state, the reviews are gonna tare them to pieces.

If you keep complaining about the current game's state (that has been in that state for many years now) and keep writing about quitting the game instead of learning it (

most recent one

), then why are you still here, playing the game? I can't imagine the game reverting its difficulty levels to the starting maps, it would be pretty stupid and boring.

i havent played for over 6 months now.

Lurking on the forum of the game you don't enjoy or even play (at least that's what you claim) for past 6 months just to keep complaining that you don't like it is pretty unhealthy and to be honest completely pointless.

and people still claim that this is a casual game, when only the start of it is .there is a name for that: BAIT AND SWITCH!!. have fun with the next round of DRMs.

Nah, it's still pretty casual, meaning you don't need to chase the level cap and catch up with gear treadmill after every addition to the game. Nobody said the game will not utilize its mechanics, which is apparently what you're complaining about. Like it or not, it's still an action mmorpg and leaving it at "starting zone level" would be just way too stagnant/boring.(and what is this random throw in with drms? What do you mean? What's the relevance here?)

video games has you sitting on a chair and pushing buttons, how is that healthy in any way? each click i give one of these threads makes it grow in size andrelevance, so its not pointless either. in fact , YOU are helping my side, by coming here to argue. if its only a couple of weirdos, then the thread will die in a couple of days.note, how many times we have had this kind of topic coming back. always started by different people. and the same handful of people come back to defend it.

Oh, I was talking about the mental health (and this is not supposed to be some cheap jab at you, this just seems like some unhealthy obsession to push people away from the thing they like

just because you don't like it

), not the "playing games = sitting = not moving = unhealthy!" take you're doing here.Nothing we do here is somehow "helping your case", this game will never revert to core. You claim (hopefully falsely, just to pretend you're making a strong stance or something) you don't play this game for 6 months and yet you constantly lurk this forum just to complain. This is weird.This game won't change to your desired core experience, so have fun with that o/

i read the forums, as you doi write on them, same as you ( you prolly do it WAY more than me)but. because i have a different opinion, than you, i am a crazy person now?i am not surprised to see you use the shame tactics to make me go away. but i AM offended, and i will report youif you dont like my opinion, then DONT READ IT

Did you even understand what you read? I play the game, so I participate on the forum. You don't play the game for half a year now (as you claim), you dislike it and yet you keep lurking the forum apparently just to tell

everyone else enjoying the game

that everything's so bad and people will/should stop playing (because that's pretty much all you do). Nobody cares you think people shouldn't enjoy it, if you prefer playing something else

then play something else

and participate on that game's forum. Try undestanding what you read, it was never about "just being on the forum" in a vacuum.

And I didn't say you're "crazy", mental health is about much more than just labeling someone "normal"/"crazy". Stop putting words in my mouth.

i didnt, YOU LITERALLY LABELLED ME WITH "MENTAL ISSUES" BECAUSE I HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION.

Nope, "your different opinion" has nothing to do with anything I wrote, so stop putting words in my mouth.

and i will be back in the next thread about the expansions too. the only ones, who can stop me are anet.

Nobody "wants to stop you", your obsession about game "you don't even play" is just weird -have fun with that though.

yep, way more fun than in the expansions. that should put things into perspective. its also obvious, why the aggro range is so much bigger in pof.its motivation for players to grind out the skyscale. they actually used a nasty F2P design in a PAID EXPANSION.

The Skyscale didn't come until far far after PoF was released. It was in the last chapter of Season 4 so well over a year later. It's e;asy to see patterns where none exist. Tons of people have skyscales and people who just play the game don't have to grind them out. It just takes longer. I didn't grind for my skyscale even a little. So I don't really know what you're talking about.

Just playing those zones will give you the currency you need over time.

There's no free to play design here. They used mobs that can knock you off your mount so you can't just avoid every single encounter which would have been, in my opinion, much worse than what we have now.

[Astyrah.4015]

@"Vayne.8563" said:Tons of people have skyscales and people who just play the game don't have to grind them out. It just takes longer.

Just playing those zones will give you the currency you need over time.

not to mention, it's even much more easier now compared to when Dragonfall was the current episode.

just doing Bjora Marches dailies + gathering Eternal Ice in the zone yields a decent amount shards which you can exchange for S4 currency. and if you also do daily strikes (or do the easy-3 strikes every day), that's even more available for you to exchange daily. add those on top of your actual gathering/daily hearts for S4 maps and that's potentially way more than what people got per day back when the skyscale was new.

the rate at which you can finish skyscale now (timegates aside) is much faster compared to before due to the "grind" (if you can call it that) being spread out thin.