Eloc Freidon.5692 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 Boreal sets. 1 Tengu. 2 Stormcaller sets. 5 Dragon Slayer sets including Fiery and Icy ascended weapons.The total so far to craft all of these cost about 10,500 Gold coins to complete! The Fiery and Icy weapons alone add 6,650 G by themselves. Compare that to the sets from Season 4, Stellar weapons at 864 G and the Heroic Dragonsblood weapons 576 G. Why do devs think this was okay?Update: After patch March 23rdThe calculations above were made without including the Prismaticite Crystals. The two refinement recipes either lets you need less crystals with orichalcum/mithril evenly OR less crystals less orichlacum with more mithril. The Fiery and Icy weapons require half as many ingots, but it only cut the cost of making the ascended weapons in half.The Fiery and Icy weapon costs were reduced, but it only put a dent in the heavy costs of Icebrood Saga Weapon Collections overall. The Lodestone cause just as much a problem.Solution:Anet should put the bulk of cost of many tiered collections in the end. The Unfinished Azure and Crimson Weapons needing 5 ingots and 10 lodestones is just as much of a problem as the final weapons.If Anet would have put out all the tiers at once, let us use previous tiers to make the next ones without doubling costs to make fresh weapons each time, that would have been better. For now players are still better off making Legendary weapons instead! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Here's an easy solution that I've found and for now it's working pretty well for me: ignore overpriced weapons/skins/collections. This way I was able to enjoy the game and not care about something that doesn't impact my gameplay in any way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 To keep people doing the DRMs although that could backfire and do the opposite if not already. I've farmed daily since the first set of DRMs and after seeing the light at the end of the tunnel pushed further twice, I just gave up. I'd rather buy the ingots than spend the 30 min every day doing the DRMs for what will probably go into next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloc Freidon.5692 Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 @Ayrilana.1396 said:To keep people doing the DRMs although that could backfire and do the opposite if not already. I've farmed daily since the first set of DRMs and after seeing the light at the end of the tunnel pushed further twice, I just gave up. I'd rather buy the ingots than spend the 30 min every day doing the DRMs for what will probably go into next year.With the 10 ingots her fiery and icy weapon, it is definitely designed to make you keep doing DRMs for almost 2 years. If you buy the ingots, you'll spend 5700 G. That's IF ecto and orichalcum don't go up, which they will.Everyone is better off making legendaries instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenom.9457 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 I get what they were going for and all, and I know they took it further on purpose because they need to cover this gap as best they can until the expansion, but still. They took it way, way too far and I hope they take this feedback and go back. I think the boreal, stormcaller, and tengu ones were ok. They crossed the limit with the 4th and 5th tiers added today. 5 versions of one set is a little much but passable, the main problem is the expense. One weapon set that’s more than 3 times the cost of a legendary weapon? I mean I know it’s 16 to 1 but still - far too much. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWilder.6923 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:2 Boreal sets. 1 Tengu. 2 Stormcaller sets. 5 Dragon Slayer sets including Fiery and Icy ascended weapons.The total so far to craft all of these cost about 10,500 Gold coins to complete! The Fiery and Icy weapons alone add 6,650 G by themselves. Compare that to the sets from Season 4, Stellar weapons at 864 G and the Heroic Dragonsblood weapons 576 G. Why do devs think this was okay?They just collections which are completely useless for me so I have never bothered to give a glance. Skip them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:@Ayrilana.1396 said:To keep people doing the DRMs although that could backfire and do the opposite if not already. I've farmed daily since the first set of DRMs and after seeing the light at the end of the tunnel pushed further twice, I just gave up. I'd rather buy the ingots than spend the 30 min every day doing the DRMs for what will probably go into next year.With the 10 ingots her fiery and icy weapon, it is definitely designed to make you keep doing DRMs for almost 2 years. If you buy the ingots, you'll spend 5700 G. That's IF ecto and orichalcum don't go up, which they will.Everyone is better off making legendaries instead.It takes about a year if you do the daily three with both boons and get the home instance node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 must save gold for next legend after xpac, if theres will be one.even tengu ones, look at how much amalgamated gemstone it cost for each weapon.i wont bother if they looks match the cost, but they dont, even the fiery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny.7236 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 I believe I have done Boreal, Stormcaller & Tengu. The reward for the last tier of the last one is a Gift of Ice for crafting FrostFang.I am using this "bad situation/design" to farm/gather & sell materials needed for these newer & more expensive weapon collection to fund my legendary weapons crafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Curze.5130 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 @Sobx.1758 said:Here's an easy solution that I've found and for now it's working pretty well for me: ignore overpriced weapons/skins/collections. This way I was able to enjoy the game and not care about something that doesn't impact my gameplay in any way. Then you realize that if you ignore the weapon collections, you waited months for 30 mins of new content, and after that you'll be back to waiting months for another 30Somehow I can't see this working well for Anet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Murtor.7253 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 I'm a kind of completionist with almost 41,000 AP. I did them all: PvE, PvP and WvW achievements. But those … I have to say, no. Not worth the price. Not worth the effort. And most of all: Not worth my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zok.4956 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 @Konrad Curze.5130 said:@Sobx.1758 said:Here's an easy solution that I've found and for now it's working pretty well for me: ignore overpriced weapons/skins/collections. This way I was able to enjoy the game and not care about something that doesn't impact my gameplay in any way. Then you realize that if you ignore the weapon collections, you waited months for 30 mins of new content, and after that you'll be back to waiting months for another 30Yes, you are coming to a sad realization. I've been there. But it will get better for you, the longer you ignore those overpriced weapons/skins/collections. Just imagine what you could do with the extra time every day.Somehow I can't see this working well for Anet... I don't think this will work well for Anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronos.3695 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 @Sobx.1758 said:Here's an easy solution that I've found and for now it's working pretty well for me: ignore overpriced weapons/skins/collections. This way I was able to enjoy the game and not care about something that doesn't impact my gameplay in any way. I understand your point of view, but there are people in this game (and in every mmo) who likes to complete everything, and sadly collections are part of that.Having a living story chapter with a 5/6 weapon collections requiring a ridicoulos amount of mats isn't good for the game, because as a collector I could complete them all, some can too, but the majority of people in the game can't.The content related to the living story (let's say in the same achievement tab) should be completable by everyone without spending thousands of gold in mats.A solution would be moving these collections into basic or rare achievements, out from the living story one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloc Freidon.5692 Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 @Fenom.9457 said:I get what they were going for and all, and I know they took it further on purpose because they need to cover this gap as best they can until the expansion, but still. They took it way, way too far and I hope they take this feedback and go back. I think the boreal, stormcaller, and tengu ones were ok. They crossed the limit with the 4th and 5th tiers added today. 5 versions of one set is a little much but passable, the main problem is the expense. One weapon set that’s more than 3 times the cost of a legendary weapon? I mean I know it’s 16 to 1 but still - far too much. They should have just let us upgrade the Azure and Crimson weapons or let us salvage previous weapons for half of what we need to make the new ones.Unfortunately, they already said it was okay to trash those, so it is impossible now for them to go back and fix it. It is already far too gone.Not unless they refund the material costs by AT LEAST half while making these, instead of the trash they reward. OR these can be upgraded to Legendary without Mystic Tributes/Gift of Fortunes and Gift of Masteries..This is a colossal mess. This is the Requiem Armor problem amplified, which they promised not to do ever again. Promises broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manasa Devi.7958 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 This is a very good jumping off point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 I have ignored every single collection since Boreal collection.It's just not fun to grind for skins, period. I think the only way that Anet can make grind worth while for the game is to simply introduce gear progression.Something past Ascended, and Legendaries will be upgraded to the next tier by default.Without gear progression, people have no real need to grind anything, and the game's longevity is limited to Achievements and Skins.Both Acheivements and skins have been grinded and implemented poorly, and it's starting to upset alot of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blocki.4931 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Only the Dragonslayer ones I consider expensive. The others are pretty fair, all things considered. They are about what collections and crafting should be in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 @Yasai.3549 said:I think the only way that Anet can make grind worth while for the game is to simply introduce gear progression.Something past Ascended, and Legendaries will be upgraded to the next tier by default.No, thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 @Sobx.1758 said:No, thanks. It has to happen eventually.If not the game will just go through cycles and cycles of recycled content models until it dies. There's nothing to grind for, there's nothing to work toward.Raids/Strikes aren't getting any harder to challenge players.Game is being casualized but now even the casual playerbase feels that skin grind and achievement grind is too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 @Yasai.3549 said:@"Sobx.1758" said:No, thanks. It has to happen eventually.If not the game will just go through cycles and cycles of recycled content models until it dies. But it doesn't and -probably most importantly- I don't see how adding gear treadmill fixes anything about what you're saying here?Now if you don't want to "grind out skins" then you just... don't. With gear treadmill grind, you're getting forced to grind it out. You say skin grind is unfun, but it's not because "reward is bad", it's because you don't want to grind. Changing optional grind to enforced grind (...or you'll be irrelevant in half of the game's content) fixes nothing, it only makes things worse. There's nothing to grind for, there's nothing to work toward. You can say that the very moment you grind out most of the gemstore for gold. Somehow I doubt you did. Raids/Strikes aren't getting any harder to challenge players.And introducing stronger equipment won't make raids/strikes harder or more challenging. What exactly am I missing here? Game is being casualized but now even the casual playerbase feels that skin grind and achievement grind is too much. The game isn't "being casualized", it was always like this. And again, the skins are optional. If someone doesn't want to grind then they don't need to, that's kind of the point and pretty sure it always was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 @"Sobx.1758" said:You can say that the very moment you grind out most of the gemstore for gold. Somehow I doubt you did.More skins. Great.Raids/Strikes aren't getting any harder to challenge players.And introducing stronger equipment won't make raids/strikes harder or more challenging. What exactly am I missing here?The game isn't "being casualized", it was always like this. And again, the skins are optional. If someone doesn't want to grind then they don't need to, that's kind of the point and pretty sure it always was. Because a Gear Treadmill can go hand in hand with harder encounters.Fractals has a pseudo progression system with infusions in order to tackle harder fractals due to AR. If that much is already in the game, I don't see why Anet can't introduce gear one step up for harder encounters for PvE.It will sate the raiding community, give players something to work toward with their weeklies and keep players engaged. That being said, several things should happen : WvW and PvP should have a template gear system, and throw out the amulet system. Let players tailor whatever they want for individual pieces saved into loadouts. Openworld difficulty will remain relatively the sameintroduce harder raids and strikes, and introduce stronger gearIf the stronger gear is definitely a no-go, then introduce something like AR for upcoming raids and strikes, encouraging players to work toward stronger upgrades to clear these harder content more comfortably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 @Yasai.3549 said:@"Sobx.1758" said:You can say that the very moment you grind out most of the gemstore for gold. Somehow I doubt you did.More skins. Great. If you wanted "something to grind for", there's plenty. The grind not being mandatory is a good thing, so I agree it's great. Raids/Strikes aren't getting any harder to challenge players.And introducing stronger equipment won't make raids/strikes harder or more challenging. What exactly am I missing here?The game isn't "being casualized", it was always like this. And again, the skins are optional. If someone doesn't want to grind then they don't need to, that's kind of the point and pretty sure it always was. Because a Gear Treadmill can go hand in hand with harder encounters. So your idea about "harder encounters" is what exactly? Scaling the dmg/hp values up so you can see higher numbers? Fractals has a pseudo progression system with infusions in order to tackle harder fractals due to AR. Yup, which doesn't impact any other type of content. Nothing to do with introducing actual gear treadmill between expansions imo? If that much is already in the game, I don't see why Anet can't introduce gear one step up for harder encounters for PvE. I still don't see why they should?You don't need gear treadmill to have harder content. It will sate the raiding community, give players something to work toward with their weeklies and keep players engaged. Um... How will adding "stronger eq" somehow "sate raiding community"? How about you start being a bit more specific instead of pretty much repeating "it will be good for everyone" (it won't, it just turns optional grind into a mandatory one) and "we'll finally be able to have harder encounters" (which still doesn't make sense to me at all and I didn't see you explaining it)? People that want their weeklies already have them (and possibly will have some more in the future). Optionally. Which is the point.From my understanding you're basically repeating "I don't want to grind so force me to grind!". And we come back to my initial response: No, thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 @"Sobx.1758" said:From my understanding you're basically repeating "I don't want to grind so force me to grind!". And we come back to my initial response: No, thanks. cough achievement grind for Mastery Point is a thing right now, so Anet already implemented mandatory grind, just not in a gear progression way.The few Strikes and Metas released during IBS has emphasis on Mastery unlocks for certain mechanics, and even worse, Reward chests.My opinion is that if I'm being forced to grind, it should lead to progression of my character.IBS Mastery only for IBS content and future content but helps me squat for literally everywhere else is not entirely enticing. (And for the love of god IBS content ain't even fun. Look at DRM)Skins are fine, but the way they are implemented right now is not fine, and doubly so for the fact yu have to complete collections for Mastery points which do indeed become mandatory either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 @Yasai.3549 said:@"Sobx.1758" said:From my understanding you're basically repeating "I don't want to grind so force me to grind!". And we come back to my initial response: No, thanks. cough achievement grind for Mastery Point is a thing right now, so Anet already implemented mandatory grind, just not in a gear progression way.cough so now we're coughing while cherry picking less and less from the posts we're answering to I guess -earlier it was half of the post, now it's a single sentence? Ok then. :D There's a difference between mastery point system and your "weekly grinding for stronger gear so we can have harder content" or w/e you suggested above. My opinion is that if I'm being forced to grind, it should lead to progression of my character. Cool -my opinion is that "being forced to grind" something despite you claiming you don't want that grind is exactly where you're wrong. Hopefully it was already clear in my last x posts. Skins are fine, but the way they are implemented right now is not fine, and doubly so for the fact yu have to complete collections for Mastery points which do indeed become mandatory either way. Interesting how I have all the masteries and more free points being unused while I didn't touch those collections. It's almost as if what you just said was false?And how is that implementation not fine? You don't need to do it at all, these are just skins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 @Sobx.1758 said:Interesting how I have all the masteries and more free points being unused while I didn't touch those collections. It's almost as if what you just said was false?Show me.Proof please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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