Trapper rune

UNOwen.7132 · April 17, 2021

@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just you enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was bad, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

razaelll.8324 · April 17, 2021

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

Too little ppl vote in this poll to use them as a reference and also they show that ragnar is not the only one which enjoy it so your claim is not very correct in my opinion. Dont get me wrong i dont pick a side because i never played before the patch but the claim "nobody enjoys after patch" is simply wrong

UNOwen.7132 · April 17, 2021

@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

Too little ppl vote in this poll to use them as a reference and also they show that ragnar is not the only one which enjoy it so your claim is not very correct in my opinion. Dont get me wrong i dont pick a side because i never played before the patch but the claim "

nobody

enjoys after patch" is simply wrong

Actually, for the approximate population PvP has, the polls had enough people voting to be possibly representative. Now granted, you could argue that forums inherently have a bias, but typically that bias is in favour of those who like the game, since the others just, yknow. Leave. But again, thats not the only reason we know. Playernumbers dwindled.

As for that, I just used his hyperbole and turned it around. Its not meant to be literal, it wasnt meant to be literal when he said either.

Ragnar.4257 · April 17, 2021

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

Too little ppl vote in this poll to use them as a reference and also they show that ragnar is not the only one which enjoy it so your claim is not very correct in my opinion. Dont get me wrong i dont pick a side because i never played before the patch but the claim "

nobody

enjoys after patch" is simply wrong

Actually, for the approximate population PvP has, the polls had enough people voting to be possibly representative. Now granted, you could argue that forums inherently have a bias, but typically that bias is in favour of those who like the game, since the others just, yknow. Leave. But again, thats not the only reason we know. Playernumbers dwindled.

As for that, I just used his hyperbole and turned it around. Its not meant to be literal, it wasnt meant to be literal when he said either.

No, I was turning your own hyperbole back at you. This part:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board.

The response was clearly "mixed" and not "overwhelmingly negative".

And if you seriously think that the average response of people on this forum is "positive" and "in support of the game"......... just, wtf? Wtf forums are you reading? People come here to vent.

razaelll.8324 · April 17, 2021

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

Too little ppl vote in this poll to use them as a reference and also they show that ragnar is not the only one which enjoy it so your claim is not very correct in my opinion. Dont get me wrong i dont pick a side because i never played before the patch but the claim "

nobody

enjoys after patch" is simply wrong

Actually, for the approximate population PvP has, the polls had enough people voting to be possibly representative. Now granted, you could argue that forums inherently have a bias, but typically that bias is in favour of those who like the game, since the others just, yknow. Leave. But again, thats not the only reason we know. Playernumbers dwindled.

As for that, I just used his hyperbole and turned it around. Its not meant to be literal, it wasnt meant to be literal when he said either.

Usually the people on the forum are the one which have a problem with the game and complains....

Also the population of the pvp and the game is much much bigger then 200 ppl poll so that number is too low

Fueki.4753 · April 17, 2021

@"UNOwen.7132" said:As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just you enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was bad, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.And, if you read comments in those poll threads you'd notice that there are many people that disliked the mega-patch because it wasn't enough.Most of the mega-patch was culling down in power damage (especially from CC skills), but that wasn't the problem for many.There have been many different complains, including:Condition damage had hardly been touched.Too many stun breaks being removed.300 seconds cooldowns that Arenanet hasn't even bothered to comment on to this day.Sustain hadn't been touched.Stealth hasn't been touched.

As you ought to see, culling the damage wasn't the problem, but not adjusting everything else at the same time.And the trapper runes, which this thread is about, utilizes two of the problems that neither the mega-patch, nor any patch afterwards addressed:Conditions being able to burst and the overabundance of Stealth.

And I don't think shortening the Burn duration on Guardian fixed even the tiniest sliver of the problems.If people die to a Condi Trapper DH, they usually die in less than two seconds anyway.

Stand The Wall.6987 · April 17, 2021

@UNOwen.7132 said:Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse.

i think you're confusing the lack of follow up patches with the general direction of the megapatch. most people who liked the direction of the megapatch don't like the state of the game now because of a complete lack of follow up. i don't know whats going on, but my guess is cmc isn't allowed to make any more big changes for whatever reason, whether its cuz of EoD coming or anet being incompetent as usual. agree with the megapatch or not, cmc has targeted the right things after the patch hit, as sparse as the changes are. i think he would do a general buff of damage if he could, would suck if he really thinks the state of the game now is good.

UNOwen.7132 · April 17, 2021

@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

Too little ppl vote in this poll to use them as a reference and also they show that ragnar is not the only one which enjoy it so your claim is not very correct in my opinion. Dont get me wrong i dont pick a side because i never played before the patch but the claim "

nobody

enjoys after patch" is simply wrong

Actually, for the approximate population PvP has, the polls had enough people voting to be possibly representative. Now granted, you could argue that forums inherently have a bias, but typically that bias is in favour of those who like the game, since the others just, yknow. Leave. But again, thats not the only reason we know. Playernumbers dwindled.

As for that, I just used his hyperbole and turned it around. Its not meant to be literal, it wasnt meant to be literal when he said either.

No, I was turning your own hyperbole back at you. This part:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board.

The response was clearly "mixed" and not "overwhelmingly negative".

And if you seriously think that the average response of people on this forum is "positive" and "in support of the game"......... just, kitten? kitten forums are you reading? People come here to vent.

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

Too little ppl vote in this poll to use them as a reference and also they show that ragnar is not the only one which enjoy it so your claim is not very correct in my opinion. Dont get me wrong i dont pick a side because i never played before the patch but the claim "

nobody

enjoys after patch" is simply wrong

Actually, for the approximate population PvP has, the polls had enough people voting to be possibly representative. Now granted, you could argue that forums inherently have a bias, but typically that bias is in favour of those who like the game, since the others just, yknow. Leave. But again, thats not the only reason we know. Playernumbers dwindled.

As for that, I just used his hyperbole and turned it around. Its not meant to be literal, it wasnt meant to be literal when he said either.

No, I was turning your own hyperbole back at you. This part:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board.

The response was clearly "mixed" and not "overwhelmingly negative".

The response at first, right after the launch, was negative, not mixed. The response within a month was in fact overwhelmingly negative. Well except for WvW. Apparently the poll ther was overwhelmingly negative from day 1. Not sure though, I dont keep up with WvW as much.

And if you seriously think that the average response of people on this forum is "positive" and "in support of the game"......... just, kitten? kitten forums are you reading? People come here to vent.

People who like the game, and people who went about aspects of the game are not mutually exclusive groups. In fact, those who care about the game most tend to be the ones who are engaged enough to go for forums. This isnt to say that their response will always be positive, its not, but it does mean it does not include the people who disliked the game, or changes to the game, so much they literally left. When people leave, they tend to leave. And hoo boy, a lot of people left. If you asked them about the february megapatch, they would definitelly tell you that its bad. But in those polls, they werent included, on account of, yknow, the fact that they left?. Thats the bias Im referring to.

UNOwen.7132 · April 17, 2021

@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

Too little ppl vote in this poll to use them as a reference and also they show that ragnar is not the only one which enjoy it so your claim is not very correct in my opinion. Dont get me wrong i dont pick a side because i never played before the patch but the claim "

nobody

enjoys after patch" is simply wrong

Actually, for the approximate population PvP has, the polls had enough people voting to be possibly representative. Now granted, you could argue that forums inherently have a bias, but typically that bias is in favour of those who like the game, since the others just, yknow. Leave. But again, thats not the only reason we know. Playernumbers dwindled.

As for that, I just used his hyperbole and turned it around. Its not meant to be literal, it wasnt meant to be literal when he said either.

Usually the people on the forum are the one which have a problem with the game and complains....

This is a popular misconception. Usually the people on the forum are the ones who are engaged enough to post here. Sure, a fair few will complain, but ultimately theyre still playing the game, and they still care for the game. The people who have enough problems with the game that they leave? Well, they left. Theyre not gonna be posting here, or participating in polls. This is a huge section of the population youre missing in the polls, and they would all be posting on the overwhelmingly negative side. IF they didnt leave.

Also the population of the pvp and the game is much much bigger then 200 ppl poll so that number is too low

Polls don't need to have as many participants as people involved. You don't poll all 300 million americans, you usually poll a tiny fraction of that. Statistics help here.

UNOwen.7132 · April 17, 2021

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse.

i think you're confusing the lack of follow up patches with the general direction of the megapatch. most people who liked the direction of the megapatch don't like the state of the game now because of a complete lack of follow up. i don't know whats going on, but my guess is cmc isn't allowed to make any more big changes for whatever reason, whether its cuz of EoD coming or anet being incompetent as usual. agree with the megapatch or not, cmc has targeted the right things after the patch hit, as sparse as the changes are. i think he would do a general buff of damage if he could, would suck if he really thinks the state of the game now is good.

The polls were explicitely about the megapatch, not the followup. The reaction went just more and more negative as it became clear just how much the megapatch messed up. We got plenty of followup too, its just that, it can't fix everything because the problem was the megapatch to begin with. And no he wouldnt. CMC clearly wanted to introduce major powerdip to the game, and weaken it below the lowest it has ever been in the games history. Thats why, instead of buffing damage (which he can do, he did do it to a few skills, just not any that matter), he just removes more amulets. Soon we will be hitting each other with pool noodles.

UNOwen.7132 · April 17, 2021

@Fueki.4753 said:
@"UNOwen.7132" said:As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just
you
enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was
bad
, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.And, if you read comments in those poll threads you'd notice that there are many people that disliked the mega-patch
because it wasn't enough.
Most of the mega-patch was culling down in power damage (especially from CC skills), but that wasn't the problem for many.There have been many different complains, including:Condition damage had hardly been touched.Too many stun breaks being removed.300 seconds cooldowns that Arenanet hasn't even bothered to comment on to this day.Sustain hadn't been touched.Stealth hasn't been touched.

No? If you read comments theyre split between "the followup sucked" and "The patch was inherently flawed and no followup was going to ever save it" (Which is the correct position). Condi, sustain, stun-breaks, none of these were getting mentioned. People did bring up the 300 second cooldowns, but those were literally the point of the patch.

As you ought to see, culling the damage wasn't the problem, but not adjusting everything else at the same time.

No, culling the damage to levels lower than the game has ever seen was the problem. The only way you can fix it is if you adjust everything else to make the levels relatively the same but then ... youre not making changes. If you just divided everything by 10, sure you technically lowered the damage, but practically you didnt. At that point, it would be pointless. So no, lowering damage was the issue. Because that was the point.

And the trapper runes, which this thread is about, utilizes two of the problems that neither the mega-patch, nor any patch afterwards addressed:Conditions being able to burst and the overabundance of Stealth.

Those arent really problems though. The "problem" was that conditions were the only damage type that, in theory, can do actual damage, but in practicality they suffered from condi removal a lot. Now the builds are just terrible and were back to unkillable sidenoders. And stealth is something people seem to like complaining about for all the wrong reasons.

And I don't think shortening the Burn duration on Guardian fixed even the tiniest sliver of the problems.If people die to a Condi Trapper DH, they usually die in less than two seconds anyway.

I mean, it made the build end up being terrible now. It removed it out of the meta. And so, the last few builds that do damage are gone. Might as well just change everyones weapons to pool noodles.

Crozame.4098 · April 17, 2021

When can we remove the trapper rune or change the 6th stat?

Crozame.4098 · April 17, 2021

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Fueki.4753 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just
you
enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was
bad
, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.And, if you read comments in those poll threads you'd notice that there are many people that disliked the mega-patch
because it wasn't enough.
Most of the mega-patch was culling down in power damage (especially from CC skills), but that wasn't the problem for many.There have been many different complains, including:Condition damage had hardly been touched.Too many stun breaks being removed.300 seconds cooldowns that Arenanet hasn't even bothered to comment on to this day.Sustain hadn't been touched.Stealth hasn't been touched.

No? If you read comments theyre split between "the followup sucked" and "The patch was inherently flawed and no followup was going to ever save it" (Which is the correct position). Condi, sustain, stun-breaks, none of these were getting mentioned. People did bring up the 300 second cooldowns, but those were literally the point of the patch.

As you ought to see, culling the damage wasn't the problem, but
not adjusting everything else at the same time.

No, culling the damage to levels lower than the game has ever seen

was

the problem. The only way you can fix it is if you adjust everything else to make the levels relatively the same but then ... youre not making changes. If you just divided everything by 10, sure you technically lowered the damage, but practically you didnt. At that point, it would be pointless. So no, lowering damage was the issue. Because that was the point.

And the trapper runes, which this thread is about, utilizes two of the problems that neither the mega-patch, nor any patch afterwards addressed:Conditions being able to burst and the overabundance of Stealth.

Those arent really problems though. The "problem" was that conditions were the only damage type that, in theory, can do actual damage, but in practicality they suffered from condi removal a lot. Now the builds are just terrible and were back to unkillable sidenoders. And stealth is something people seem to like complaining about for all the wrong reasons.

And I don't think shortening the Burn duration on Guardian fixed even the tiniest sliver of the problems.If people die to a Condi Trapper DH, they usually die in less than two seconds anyway.

I mean, it made the build end up being terrible now. It removed it out of the meta. And so, the last few builds that do damage are gone. Might as well just change everyones weapons to pool noodles.

again, power LB DH with trapper is also hard to catch and getting momentum

razaelll.8324 · April 17, 2021

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

Too little ppl vote in this poll to use them as a reference and also they show that ragnar is not the only one which enjoy it so your claim is not very correct in my opinion. Dont get me wrong i dont pick a side because i never played before the patch but the claim "

nobody

enjoys after patch" is simply wrong

Actually, for the approximate population PvP has, the polls had enough people voting to be possibly representative. Now granted, you could argue that forums inherently have a bias, but typically that bias is in favour of those who like the game, since the others just, yknow. Leave. But again, thats not the only reason we know. Playernumbers dwindled.

As for that, I just used his hyperbole and turned it around. Its not meant to be literal, it wasnt meant to be literal when he said either.

Usually the people on the forum are the one which have a problem with the game and complains....

This is a popular misconception. Usually the people on the forum are the ones who are engaged enough to post here. Sure, a fair few will complain, but ultimately theyre still playing the game, and they still care for the game. The people who have enough problems with the game that they leave? Well, they left. Theyre not gonna be posting here, or participating in polls. This is a huge section of the population youre missing in the polls, and they would all be posting on the overwhelmingly negative side. IF they didnt leave.

I didnt said they are not engaged, i said they have problem with the game and if you check the posts you will see that the majority are complains for something, so no its not misconception. Also there are many many people which are posting here without even playing the game and they said it by their own..

Also the population of the pvp and the game is much much bigger then 200 ppl poll so that number is too low

Polls don't need to have as many participants as people involved. You don't poll all 300 million americans, you usually poll a tiny fraction of that. Statistics help here.

I didnt said all need to be involved but when less then 1% of the population is involved in a poll it makes it irrelevant

also on the poll which has most ppl voted 200 + the % was closest.

Anyway my whole point was that you dont need to exaggerate the poll results to "nobody enjoys the pvp after the patch" because that is not the case

UNOwen.7132 · April 17, 2021

@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

Too little ppl vote in this poll to use them as a reference and also they show that ragnar is not the only one which enjoy it so your claim is not very correct in my opinion. Dont get me wrong i dont pick a side because i never played before the patch but the claim "

nobody

enjoys after patch" is simply wrong

Actually, for the approximate population PvP has, the polls had enough people voting to be possibly representative. Now granted, you could argue that forums inherently have a bias, but typically that bias is in favour of those who like the game, since the others just, yknow. Leave. But again, thats not the only reason we know. Playernumbers dwindled.

As for that, I just used his hyperbole and turned it around. Its not meant to be literal, it wasnt meant to be literal when he said either.

Usually the people on the forum are the one which have a problem with the game and complains....

This is a popular misconception. Usually the people on the forum are the ones who are engaged enough to post here. Sure, a fair few will complain, but ultimately theyre still playing the game, and they still care for the game. The people who have enough problems with the game that they leave? Well, they left. Theyre not gonna be posting here, or participating in polls. This is a huge section of the population youre missing in the polls, and they would all be posting on the overwhelmingly negative side. IF they didnt leave.

I didnt said they are not engaged, i said they have problem with the game and if you check the posts you will see that the majority are complains for something, so no its not misconception. Also there are many many people which are posting here without even playing the game and they said it by their own..

The majority of posts are complaints, but if you look at polls, a lot of them are people who dont regularly post. Lurkers, as we call them. Theyre the silent majority, and theyre the type to be engaged and also often more positive. And there are a few, yes, mostly people who left. But theyre a small fraction of those who left.

Also the population of the pvp and the game is much much bigger then 200 ppl poll so that number is too low

Polls don't need to have as many participants as people involved. You don't poll all 300 million americans, you usually poll a tiny fraction of that. Statistics help here.

I didnt said all need to be involved but when less then 1% of the population is involved in a poll it makes it irrelevant

Nope. If you want a poll to determine something about the population of america, with a 99% confidence level and an interval of 1 (i.e. 99% chance that its within 1% of the value you get in the end), you only need a sample size of about 17000. Despite the population of america being roughly 300 million. Statistics are a funny beast.

also on the poll which has most ppl voted 200 + the % was closest.

Uh, no? The biggest one would be this: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111077/do-you-enjoy-the-current-meta. Its the least close, with against the current state being voted 5 times as much as in favour. Granted, its not about the patch specifically. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118841/how-about-we-get-the-pre-february-meta-back-and-call-it-a-day This is the second-biggest one, and its also far apart.

Anyway my whole point was that you dont need to exaggerate the poll results to "nobody enjoys the pvp after the patch" because that is not the case

Its again, called hyperbole.

razaelll.8324 · April 17, 2021

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

Too little ppl vote in this poll to use them as a reference and also they show that ragnar is not the only one which enjoy it so your claim is not very correct in my opinion. Dont get me wrong i dont pick a side because i never played before the patch but the claim "

nobody

enjoys after patch" is simply wrong

Actually, for the approximate population PvP has, the polls had enough people voting to be possibly representative. Now granted, you could argue that forums inherently have a bias, but typically that bias is in favour of those who like the game, since the others just, yknow. Leave. But again, thats not the only reason we know. Playernumbers dwindled.

As for that, I just used his hyperbole and turned it around. Its not meant to be literal, it wasnt meant to be literal when he said either.

Usually the people on the forum are the one which have a problem with the game and complains....

This is a popular misconception. Usually the people on the forum are the ones who are engaged enough to post here. Sure, a fair few will complain, but ultimately theyre still playing the game, and they still care for the game. The people who have enough problems with the game that they leave? Well, they left. Theyre not gonna be posting here, or participating in polls. This is a huge section of the population youre missing in the polls, and they would all be posting on the overwhelmingly negative side. IF they didnt leave.

I didnt said they are not engaged, i said they have problem with the game and if you check the posts you will see that the majority are complains for something, so no its not misconception. Also there are many many people which are posting here without even playing the game and they said it by their own..

The majority of

posts

are complaints, but if you look at polls, a lot of them are people who dont regularly post. Lurkers, as we call them. Theyre the silent majority, and theyre the type to be engaged and also often more positive. And there are a few, yes, mostly people who left. But theyre a small fraction of those who left.

Also the population of the pvp and the game is much much bigger then 200 ppl poll so that number is too low

Polls don't need to have as many participants as people involved. You don't poll all 300 million americans, you usually poll a tiny fraction of that. Statistics help here.

I didnt said all need to be involved but when less then 1% of the population is involved in a poll it makes it irrelevant

Nope. If you want a poll to determine something about the population of america, with a 99% confidence level and an interval of 1 (i.e. 99% chance that its within 1% of the value you get in the end), you only need a sample size of about 17000. Despite the population of america being roughly 300 million. Statistics are a funny beast

And quite often they are manipulated and wayy off thats why they are irelevant.

also on the poll which has most ppl voted 200 + the % was closest.

Uh, no? The biggest one would be this:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111077/do-you-enjoy-the-current-meta

. Its the least close, with against the current state being voted 5 times as much as in favour. Granted, its not about the patch specifically.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118841/how-about-we-get-the-pre-february-meta-back-and-call-it-a-day

This is the second-biggest one, and its also far apart.

My bad then i didnt saw this one

Anyway my whole point was that you dont need to exaggerate the poll results to "nobody enjoys the pvp after the patch" because that is not the case

Its again, called hyperbole.That was the whole point no need to hyperbolize it

mistsim.2748 · April 17, 2021

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

People are bored of the game mode, and they're tired of learning a build only to have it nerfed.

Balance, however, is way better now. It's not even debatable. Population is low in spvp for other reasons, not balance.

UNOwen.7132 · April 17, 2021

@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@razaelll.8324 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

Too little ppl vote in this poll to use them as a reference and also they show that ragnar is not the only one which enjoy it so your claim is not very correct in my opinion. Dont get me wrong i dont pick a side because i never played before the patch but the claim "

nobody

enjoys after patch" is simply wrong

Actually, for the approximate population PvP has, the polls had enough people voting to be possibly representative. Now granted, you could argue that forums inherently have a bias, but typically that bias is in favour of those who like the game, since the others just, yknow. Leave. But again, thats not the only reason we know. Playernumbers dwindled.

As for that, I just used his hyperbole and turned it around. Its not meant to be literal, it wasnt meant to be literal when he said either.

Usually the people on the forum are the one which have a problem with the game and complains....

This is a popular misconception. Usually the people on the forum are the ones who are engaged enough to post here. Sure, a fair few will complain, but ultimately theyre still playing the game, and they still care for the game. The people who have enough problems with the game that they leave? Well, they left. Theyre not gonna be posting here, or participating in polls. This is a huge section of the population youre missing in the polls, and they would all be posting on the overwhelmingly negative side. IF they didnt leave.

I didnt said they are not engaged, i said they have problem with the game and if you check the posts you will see that the majority are complains for something, so no its not misconception. Also there are many many people which are posting here without even playing the game and they said it by their own..

The majority of

posts

are complaints, but if you look at polls, a lot of them are people who dont regularly post. Lurkers, as we call them. Theyre the silent majority, and theyre the type to be engaged and also often more positive. And there are a few, yes, mostly people who left. But theyre a small fraction of those who left.

Also the population of the pvp and the game is much much bigger then 200 ppl poll so that number is too low

Polls don't need to have as many participants as people involved. You don't poll all 300 million americans, you usually poll a tiny fraction of that. Statistics help here.

I didnt said all need to be involved but when less then 1% of the population is involved in a poll it makes it irrelevant

Nope. If you want a poll to determine something about the population of america, with a 99% confidence level and an interval of 1 (i.e. 99% chance that its within 1% of the value you get in the end), you only need a sample size of about 17000. Despite the population of america being roughly 300 million. Statistics are a funny beast

And quite often they are manipulated and wayy off thats why they are irelevant.

Actually polls are rarely off, but bias is a big issue. In this case though, the bias is in favour of people voting for the new patch, as a lot of people who would vote against it have left.

also on the poll which has most ppl voted 200 + the % was closest.

Uh, no? The biggest one would be this:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111077/do-you-enjoy-the-current-meta

. Its the least close, with against the current state being voted 5 times as much as in favour. Granted, its not about the patch specifically.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118841/how-about-we-get-the-pre-february-meta-back-and-call-it-a-day

This is the second-biggest one, and its also far apart.

My bad then i didnt saw this one

Yeah its hard to keep track sometimes. I had them saved.

Anyway my whole point was that you dont need to exaggerate the poll results to "nobody enjoys the pvp after the patch" because that is not the case

Its again, called hyperbole.That was the whole point no need to hyperbolize it

Tell that to him shrug.

NorthernRedStar.3054 · April 17, 2021

@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

To be fair, if we start comparing specs DH sorta does lack in survivability - in a way. Most of the defenses are strictly active in nature compared to many classes' trait ones, as DH traits mostly increase their offensive capabilities.

This on top of their low mobility w/o trapper rune amplifies the windows of vulnerability they have, leaving them with far more counterplay than many others. Hence, he's not wrong , per say.

UNOwen.7132 · April 17, 2021

@mistsim.2748 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

People are bored of the game mode, and they're tired of learning a build only to have it nerfed.

Thats always been true, thats not the reason. People also arent bored of the gamemode, theyre bored of the current state.

Balance, however, is way better now. It's not even debatable. Population is low in spvp for other reasons, not balance.

Its pretty easy to debate. Balance is worse, and its the primary reason population is so low. That and it just not being fun with how low damage is.

Quadox.7834 · April 18, 2021

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@mistsim.2748 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

People are bored of the game mode, and they're tired of learning a build only to have it nerfed.

Thats always been true, thats not the reason. People also arent bored of the gamemode, theyre bored of the current state.

Balance, however, is way better now. It's not even debatable. Population is low in spvp for other reasons, not balance.

Its pretty easy to debate. Balance is worse, and its the primary reason population is so low. That and it just not being fun with how low damage is.

source on pvp player numbers?
please ban unowen, literally nobody enjoys his posts

UNOwen.7132 · April 18, 2021

@Quadox.7834 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@mistsim.2748 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

People are bored of the game mode, and they're tired of learning a build only to have it nerfed.

Thats always been true, thats not the reason. People also arent bored of the gamemode, theyre bored of the current state.

Balance, however, is way better now. It's not even debatable. Population is low in spvp for other reasons, not balance.

Its pretty easy to debate. Balance is worse, and its the primary reason population is so low. That and it just not being fun with how low damage is.

source on pvp player numbers?

Besides the top of the ladder being lower and more sparse, you mean? Or, yknow, the playerbase being so small, the matchmaking system is no longer functioning correctly, as is the ranking system? Its pretty obvious the playerbase its the lowest its ever been.

please ban unowen, literally nobody enjoys his posts

Someone is petty.

Quadox.7834 · April 18, 2021

@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Quadox.7834 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@mistsim.2748 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

People are bored of the game mode, and they're tired of learning a build only to have it nerfed.

Thats always been true, thats not the reason. People also arent bored of the gamemode, theyre bored of the current state.

Balance, however, is way better now. It's not even debatable. Population is low in spvp for other reasons, not balance.

Its pretty easy to debate. Balance is worse, and its the primary reason population is so low. That and it just not being fun with how low damage is.

source on pvp player numbers?

Besides the top of the ladder being lower and more sparse, you mean? Or, yknow, the playerbase being so small, the matchmaking system is no longer functioning correctly, as is the ranking system? Its pretty obvious the playerbase its the lowest its ever been.

i don't know if the playerbase is smaller, larger, or the same as before, which is why i asked for a source. maybe we can ask ben or cmc. 2. when it comes to tournaments, inhouses, etc the top end is better now than before.

please ban unowen, literally nobody enjoys his posts

Someone is petty.it's called hyperbole

Ragnar.4257 · April 18, 2021

@Quadox.7834 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:Someone is petty.it's called hyperbole

I lol'd, 10/10

UNOwen.7132 · April 18, 2021

@Quadox.7834 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Quadox.7834 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@mistsim.2748 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Ragnar.4257 said:
@UNOwen.7132 said:
@Shao.7236 said:
@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:
@Tharan.9085 said:
@Khalgir.3862 said:Sure, remove the Trapper Rune and give DH good survivability.

If you think DH is lacking good survivability then you're playing it wrong

Do not really have any troubles as a power coreguard vs DH on g3 and p1. Rangers just obliterate the DH.It is now just about stealth and kiting; that is the only reason why they are good. If you remove it, then the only option is to go with Valor, but you will have your damage deducted.

So, the DH will need to use "defensive" traitline to get more sustain at the price of it's damage? Are you serious about even thinking to complain about that?

It's because playing the game is too hard. Most have been conditioned to think they can survive forever while doing insane damage. We've come this far just to have more useless complains. It's "slowing" down the game to remove damage that instant kills.. Wow who would have known, but when we had instant kills there was no build variety at all outside anything that.. You guessed it, could survive forever and do insane damage.

Wdym, ever since the february megapatch, the game has been the easiest it has ever been. Just turn off your brain and spam off cooldown. The lack of damage means you cant ever be punished for any mistakes, and worse yet, because of the lack of damage, spamming everything off cooldown

is not even a mistake

. And no, we had great build variety pre-patch. Its now that build variety is severely lacking.

It's always lose/lose with the devs and I feel sorry for them.

Its not though. The february megapatch, and every change afterwards, was just a mistake. They could've just not made the megapatch. Or after seeing how overwhelmingly negative the response was, they couldve reverted the whole thing, admitted it was a mistake, and gone back to the drawing board. That wouldve been a "win" as you put it.

No, that's just you. You and a handful of other loud voices have been waging this crusade, but I, and quite a few others, are of the opinion that the direction with the Feb patch was a good one. Whether everything SINCE then has been done well..... that's another topic.

As multiple polls here, and player numbers in PvP have shown, its not "just me". In fact quite the opposite, its just

you

enjoying the new patch. We have had multiple polls about the february megapatch since. The best it had was 55% voting that it was

bad

, 45% that it was good, and that was right after it came out. Now? Its somewhere between a 66/33 split in favour of pre-patch being better to 75/25 in favour of pre-patch being better. Sure, there is a loud minority, including you, that believers the february patch was better, but the majority of players think its significantly worse. Its why player numbers went into an extreme downwards spiral right after it was implemented.

And I have no idea how much of a pretzel you have to twist your brain into to arrive at the conclusion that longer cooldowns = more spammy.

Its not terribly complicated. Spammy isnt about how often you can use it, but if you use it off-cooldown, or not. Sure pre-patch cooldowns were shorter. But you couldnt just use them off cooldown. You had to wait for the right opportunity to use them. If you didnt, you died. Now? Damage is so low that both mistiming cooldowns can't really be punished, but also you just straight up cant wait, your damage is already low, delay it more and you might even fail to kill with a +1. So you use everything off-cooldown. Thats spammy.

People are bored of the game mode, and they're tired of learning a build only to have it nerfed.

Thats always been true, thats not the reason. People also arent bored of the gamemode, theyre bored of the current state.

Balance, however, is way better now. It's not even debatable. Population is low in spvp for other reasons, not balance.

Its pretty easy to debate. Balance is worse, and its the primary reason population is so low. That and it just not being fun with how low damage is.

source on pvp player numbers?

Besides the top of the ladder being lower and more sparse, you mean? Or, yknow, the playerbase being so small, the matchmaking system is no longer functioning correctly, as is the ranking system? Its pretty obvious the playerbase its the lowest its ever been.

i don't know if the playerbase is smaller, larger, or the same as before, which is why i asked for a source. maybe we can ask ben or cmc. 2. when it comes to tournaments, inhouses, etc the top end is better now than before.

We do know. Again, the top of the ladder is lower and more sparse, and the lack of players has caused the matchmaking system to stop functioning properly alltogether, something that has never happened before. And ironically, thats the reason we have more tournaments than before. Because its the only way to possibly fix this problem, and its the only way for top players to really be able to play PvP properly.

please ban unowen, literally nobody enjoys his posts

Someone is petty.it's called hyperbole

Thats literally not what the word means.

Trapper rune

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