GW2 Isn't made for people that has a real life job.

[Buzzbugs.1236]

Timescale (I mean Skyscale) was a mistake. Flying mounts really hurt WoW, I always heard that from players. I think it's such a shame they brought them to this game. I miss the glider days. Whats even the point of having a glider anymore? Everyone is just flying around now... it's really not fun.

[Tiilimon.6094]

Now you'll hear from a wow player that flying mounts were actually one of the best and funniest things blizzard came up with for their mmo.

 

What they failed at was making content with flying mounts in mind, so instead they blocked flying till you spend a lot of gold and time to unlock flying for the new zones.

 

What's so fun about gliders anyways? Griffon is basically a bigger and better glider, but that's not fun?

[Buzzbugs.1236]

What's so fun about being able to just fly around everywhere without effort anyway?

 

At the beginning of Gliders, everyone got one and you never felt like you were falling behind during meta's and such, because everyone had one. And most of all, Gliders supplemented gameplay nicely and wasn't overly OP. But flying mounts just make all other modes of travel irrelevant and sets a poor precedent for what the experience playing EoD will be like.

 

A lot of people in this thread keep shouting that the Skyscale gameplay is optional. But they are not looking at the bigger picture. This is what the end-game of GW2 is looking like and I'm not really  fan.

 

It's my opinion that A-Net should have stopped at the Griffon, and not gone any further. They fell for the temptation to create the mythical flying mount, the bane of every MMO that ever existed.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Buzzbugs.1236

[Puck.3697]

On 5/8/2021 at 11:03 PM, OlsenSan.2987 said:

Before I start I want to say that it is my opinion and I don't care if you don't agree with whatever I am saying and you don't have to read this either.

 

I've not been so active playing guild wars 2 for at least 3 years now.  The reason is I have a good Job and life to deal with. I have both expansions released so far and all LWS episodes unlocked. I always log in once in a while to not miss any new episode. But I can't or even feel like I can be back playing. The reasons are because the things I want to do take in the game so long, but so long, that I can't compromise myself and my time to do them anymore.

 

As an example. It has been over a year now that I've been trying to complete my Skyscale collection in order to get my mount and everytime I do some part of this collection I don't feel like doing it anymore. It will probably take another 2 years to complete.

2 days ago I logged into the game and tried to do "Saving skyscale collection" It had many subcollections to complete. Ice, Fire, Water, Courage, Fear and before I start this, I finished the other one about the eggs and had to wait 2 hours to start this one. This took me the whole day to finish Saving Skyscale. The amount of time I can't spend playing a game anymore. And the reason why I was never able to complete the eggs collection before is the same.

 

I am pretty sure there are a lot of people who enjoy this. And a MMORPG games should try to invest and keep players who would actually support the game not only with a few hours per day but also buying whatever there is for sale in the game store. But we can't if even to get a mount we have to spend days and days wasting our time into a ***** collection. Our time is valuable as too. 

I logged into the game today and checked what is the next part of collections I should get for my skyscale and I didn't feel like doing it today. So I wont be online untill the day I feel like doing it. The day I have plenty of time to spend in Guild Wars 2, that I have nothing better to do with my life. In 2 years I will finally be able to fly freely onto the skies of tyria. 

 

 

 

It's not really true, the achievement is long. But it is account wide. You unlock it for all ur chars which is why the investment is longer. 

 

Also I will add I have. Afull time job (45ish hours a week) and live with my girlfriend. I could still very easily fit 5 hours or more a day into the game if I wanted to. 

 

It's nothing to do with being employed realistically. The vast majority of employed people aren't working the quantities of hours required to be in such a situation. 

 

The thing is you don't want to, and that's fine. It's not a bad thing 

 

Not everyone wants to spend hours infront of a pc 

 

And you admit it in your last statement on it you don't feel like doing it. And it's fine skyscales aren't mandatory. Your post makes it sound like this grinds 1000+ hours of grinding.. and realistically it's like a 40 hour grind. 

 

 

 

 

[Tiilimon.6094]

People say it's optional because it is, you can keep up with ground mounts and griffon very easily.

Often griffon is actually a lot better for keeping up with meta than a skyscale if you know how control it.

 

Imo, if people choose not to complete the main story and spend a bit of gold, they can't really complain when they can't keep up with end game :P

 

 

[Puck.3697]

21 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

Timescale (I mean Skyscale) was a mistake. Flying mounts really hurt WoW, I always heard that from players. I think it's such a shame they brought them to this game. I miss the glider days. Whats even the point of having a glider anymore? Everyone is just flying around now... it's really not fun.

No flying didn't hurt WoW attempting to limit flying is what hurt WoW. 

 

Flying is actually very good, QoL is something players desire. And given the game lacks open world PvP in PvE zones it's by large irrelevant. Where it murdered that in PvP. 

 

Due to how gw2 works. The skyscale does the game no damage 

[Buzzbugs.1236]

The Skyscale is not optional. It's going to be hugely relevant to have a Skyscale for EoD. Anet are going to be designing maps and events with the flying capabilities of Skyscales in mind. They are not going to hamstring their game design by creating encounters that can be completed equally well by flying mounts and ground mounts. It's unrealistic.

 

Players are going to fall behind if they don't have a Skyscale. How can you keep a straight face when you say they are optional? It's like telling someone they don't need Exotic stats or amulets to play the toughest content... it's dishonest. The player is going to have a very hard time trying to do PoF content while wearing Rare stats and no amulets.

 

I'm willing to bet 1000 gold there will be areas and events in EoD that either require a Skyscale, or at the very least favor having a Skyscale. Now that they exist in the game, A-net have to apply that to all of their designs going forward.

 

Put yourself in the shoes of a designer. How do you design content that is challenging for a player who has X Y and Z mobility but at the same time, keep a player who can only travel on the ground able to complete said content with similar challenge? Have a think about that and get back to me, I want to hear your solution.

 

My solution would have been not to put flying mounts in the game in the first place but it's too late for that. Now we're repeating the same mistake other games already made before. The temptation to sell Dragon flying mount skins in the Gemstore took a higher priority. Now the rest of the game suffers.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Buzzbugs.1236

[Tiilimon.6094]

What's so special about skyscale tho, you can go anywhere with bunny and griffon anyways?

If you wanna scale a high mountain, sure, skyscale rocks.. but how much content is actually on top of the tallest structures in the game?

 

Right now there's almost nothing at all up there.

 

If people(like me) skipped HOT masteries and didn't get ley line gliding, traversing places like Dragonfall was a lot harder as well, the developers always seem to design a second route.

I think that same logic would apply to EoD.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Tiilimon.6094

[Buzzbugs.1236]

17 minutes ago, Tiilimon.6094 said:

What's so special about skyscale tho, you can go anywhere with bunny and griffon anyways?

If you wanna scale a high mountain, sure, skyscale rocks.. but how much content is actually on top of the tallest structures in the game?

 

Right now there's almost nothing at all up there.

 

If people(like me) skipped HOT masteries and didn't get ley line gliding, traversing places like Dragonfall was a lot harder as well, the developers always seem to design a second route.

I think that same logic would apply to EoD.

 

How do you compare a bunny, a griffon, or a ley line to a mount that can freely fly X Y Z?

 

How do you challenge a player who has that free range of movement while also challenging a player without it, equally?

 

The answer is you can't. A leyline placed here and there is not going to cut it in a lot of situations, especially when time is a factor. Everything is just going to be faster and easier if you can just take off and fly there, skip all the mobs that can knock you off your mount, etc.

 

If it's much more efficient to have the Skyscale, then it is NOT OPTIONAL. Not in a game such as this, anyway. If this was a single player "play-your-way" RPG, then I'd agree with you. But this is an MMO with Metas. They are called Meta events for a reason. And the Skyscale is part of the Meta for this game that you cannot just choose to ignore and expect to play as efficiently as people who do have one.

 

To anyone who chooses not to get a Skyscale; have fun falling behind in EoD and being kicked out of groups for riding a raptor like a pleb. 😄

Edited May 15, 2021 by Buzzbugs.1236

[Tiilimon.6094]

But as people have pointed out, griffon and beetle is quicker for most metas 😄

[Buzzbugs.1236]

Just now, Tiilimon.6094 said:

But as people have pointed out, griffon and beetle is quicker for most metas 😄

Yeah.. if you are traveling in a straight line from A to B.

 

Nice strawman argument tho.

[Tiilimon.6094]

How do you know how the new maps will be like anyways? they could be deserts and plains for all we know 😄

 

Also, there could be teleport locations like in DF, perhaps jackal portals etc.. etc.. Anet always seem to have a secondary option for travel, there might even be some airships where you can parachute down from.

 

Nobody knows yet 😄

Edited May 15, 2021 by Tiilimon.6094

[Buzzbugs.1236]

6 minutes ago, Tiilimon.6094 said:

How do you know how the new maps will be like anyways? they could be deserts and plains for all we know 😄

 

How much gold do you want to bet?

[Tiilimon.6094]

Why would I bet anything? I don't gamble 😄

[Eraden.8740]

30 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

 

How do you compare a bunny, a griffon, or a ley line to a mount that can freely fly X Y Z?

 

How do you challenge a player who has that free range of movement while also challenging a player without it, equally?

 

The answer is you can't. A leyline placed here and there is not going to cut it in a lot of situations, especially when time is a factor. Everything is just going to be faster and easier if you can just take off and fly there, skip all the mobs that can knock you off your mount, etc.

 

If it's much more efficient to have the Skyscale, then it is NOT OPTIONAL. Not in a game such as this, anyway. If this was a single player "play-your-way" RPG, then I'd agree with you. But this is an MMO with Metas. They are called Meta events for a reason. And the Skyscale is part of the Meta for this game that you cannot just choose to ignore and expect to play as efficiently as people who do have one.

 

To anyone who chooses not to get a Skyscale; have fun falling behind in EoD and being kicked out of groups for riding a raptor like a pleb. 😄

Good Lord, this is a bit of hyperbole. Dragonfall, arguably the most Skyscale-friendly map in the game, was navigated by me quite nicely with a bunny. Did it take me longer to get to places than if I had a Skyscale? The answer is yes. However, I still managed to get to meta events on time to contribute. By doing that, I eventually made my way through the quest chain and earned my own Skyscale. It does make getting to events easier but I still see people on bunnies keeping up with us for the most part. I think perhaps if you had said that not having a Skyscale in these particular situations is not OPTIMAL rather than "NOT OPTIONAL", I would have probably agreed with you. Dragonfall is a rather unique map, though, and I suspect there won't be too many maps made that are quite like it.

[Anodic.6712]

Meta event just means the main event plotline for the map. Has absolutely nothing to do with meta in terms of what is most optimal to play in terminology.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

The Skyscale is not optional. It's going to be hugely relevant to have a Skyscale for EoD. Anet are going to be designing maps and events with the flying capabilities of Skyscales in mind. They are not going to hamstring their game design by creating encounters that can be completed equally well by flying mounts and ground mounts. It's unrealistic.

 

Players are going to fall behind if they don't have a Skyscale. How can you keep a straight face when you say they are optional? It's like telling someone they don't need Exotic stats or amulets to play the toughest content... it's dishonest. The player is going to have a very hard time trying to do PoF content while wearing Rare stats and no amulets.

 

I'm willing to bet 1000 gold there will be areas and events in EoD that either require a Skyscale, or at the very least favor having a Skyscale. Now that they exist in the game, A-net have to apply that to all of their designs going forward.

 

Put yourself in the shoes of a designer. How do you design content that is challenging for a player who has X Y and Z mobility but at the same time, keep a player who can only travel on the ground able to complete said content with similar challenge? Have a think about that and get back to me, I want to hear your solution.

 

My solution would have been not to put flying mounts in the game in the first place but it's too late for that. Now we're repeating the same mistake other games already made before. The temptation to sell Dragon flying mount skins in the Gemstore took a higher priority. Now the rest of the game suffers.

Yea skyscale is going to be as needed for EoD as gliding was for PoF a good qol but ulitmately not needed.

[Buzzbugs.1236]

But having the Skyscale IS the most optimal way to play the game. That is what makes it Meta in a lot of peoples minds and it's the reason there is this conundrum for many players who feel like there's too much grind investment to acquire one.

 

This topic of discussion keeps popping up and there is a reason for that. We aren't talking about some optional weapon skin here, we are talking about the most optimal way of traveling the PvE maps and completing the maps and events.

 

There is way too much hand-waving and dismissive comments in this thread. You can't keep dismissing other peoples concerns with buzzwords like "Optional", it's disingenuous. Try to be reasonable and try to see things from others perspective.

 

Flying mounts in MMO's have a reputation for all the issues I have mentioned. Just because this is Guild Wars 2 doesn't mean those issues just melt away. Anet are not wizards. The dragon mounts were put in the game because of potential revenue from selling more skins on the Gemshop, even though they are detrimental to the overarching game.

 

And that's the bottom line! Stop behaving like Skyscales are some ethereal thing that can't possibly have an effect on gameplay if you just choose to ignore it. It's complete nonsense! This is an online multiplayer game, not a single player RPG. Put your thinking caps on..

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Buzzbugs.1236

[JHawke.7425]

The most casual mmo ever and people still complain kekw. At this point just stop playing mmo's they are clearly not for you, this game already barely has any in game rewards and you are complaining that its too much.... amazing 

[Buzzbugs.1236]

11 minutes ago, JHawke.7425 said:

The most casual mmo ever and people still complain kekw. At this point just stop playing mmo's they are clearly not for you, this game already barely has any in game rewards and you are complaining that its too much.... amazing 

As I've stated in my previous comments, I don't like flying mounts in the game at all. It's got nothing to do with the grinding. But feel free to just ignore what I said, I guess.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Buzzbugs.1236

[Tiilimon.6094]

Buzz, it's quite clear that you don't like flying mounts at all, but the reasons you keep giving for them making the game worse don't really make much sense.

 

They didn't make wow any worse either, they made that game a lot better imo and I played it since lauch. You based this opinion on hearsay as well, without actually having any hands on experience on the subject, if I understood your post correctly.

 

You also keep telling us that it's impossible to keep up with metas without a skyscale, and we keep telling you that we use beetles and griffons to travel faster than with a scaley.

 

You dismiss this by saying that it's only in straight lines, which already shows that you don't seem to play with these mounts at all. 

 

I personally use beetle boost often for launching very high from small bumps in terrain, then swap to griff midair and dive to max speed. Using a skyscale would be very slow compared to this.

[Buzzbugs.1236]

10 minutes ago, Tiilimon.6094 said:

Buzz, it's quite clear that you don't like flying mounts at all, but the reasons you keep giving for them making the game worse don't really make much sense.

 

They didn't make wow any worse either, they made that game a lot better imo and I played it since lauch. You based this opinion on hearsay as well, without actually having any hands on experience on the subject, if I understood your post correctly.

 

You also keep telling us that it's impossible to keep up with metas without a skyscale, and we keep telling you that we use beetles and griffons to travel faster than with a scaley.

 

You dismiss this by saying that it's only in straight lines, which already shows that you don't seem to play with these mounts at all. 

 

I personally use beetle boost often for launching very high from small bumps in terrain, then swap to griff midair and dive to max speed. Using a skyscale would be very slow compared to this.

I didn't say it was impossible to do the events without the Skyscale. Where did I say that? I said that you can't be at your most optimal without a Skyscale, which is what makes it Meta and that's the reason some players are unhappy about the grind to acquire one in a game that once touted itself as having no grind to be efficient in end-game, with horizontal progression and all that.

 

And it's true that you can complete events faster with a beetle or a griffon in the right conditions. But this is a strawman argument because many maps in this game have a lot of verticality.

 

Have you ever followed a meta train at verdant brink without a Skyscale? It's not impossible, but it's far less efficient. Using any other mount you have to wade through dozens of mobs while navigating the dense layout of the jungle. Meanwhile the Skyscale players just fly right over you directly to the destination. Pretty disheartening to say the least.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Buzzbugs.1236

[Eraden.8740]

Buzzbugs, as I have previously mentioned, I got around just fine using my bunny in Dragonfall. If there was ever a place to call problematic for anything other than the Skyscale, it would be that zone. Yet I did just fine. You don't have to be perfectly efficient in order to play this game. A lot of content in this game, does not require perfection. Enjoy the game for what it is. By the way, my brother is still using his bunny and he can actually do a fair job of keeping up with me in Verdant Brink. Can I outpace him in places in that zone? Sure I can. However, my goal is to have fun playing with him and therefore it's not necessary to get from "a" to "b" before he does. We still do metas there from time to time. He has a blast there.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Eraden.8740

[Tiilimon.6094]

With the jackal mastery maxed, you can use any mount for Enchanced Evasion and this actually makes skimmer best at traveling through piles of enemies without any trouble.

 

If someone wants to travel vertically in last expansions maps, then they probably should get a skyscale, nothing prevents anyone from obtaining one.

[Mungrul.9358]

I like the cut of your jib Buzzbugs 👍

 

You are bang-on when you say that the team will struggle to design maps that are equally challenging for both those with and without the Skyscale.

And keeping up with the meta-train without one is nigh-on impossible. Eraden above saying that bunny and griffon are enough for Dragonfall obviously hasn't tried to keep up with the post-meta boss rush.

 

I have my Skyscale, but I certainly didn't enjoy getting it. I honestly couldn't describe it as anything more than a chore. But GW2 has always been plagued by the kind of design that forces you to replay content until you're so tired of it you never want to play it again.

 

It's a genuine shame, because this game really does have the best gameplay of any MMO or modern "Games as a service" variant I've ever played. That's including WoW, Neocron, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, DC Universe Online, D&D Online, Diablo 3, Black Desert Online, Shroud of the Avatar, The Division 1 & 2 and Destiny 2.

With the possible exception of the original Guild Wars, which was my first MMO.

 

But they strayed from the original games' philosophy, where the grind was initially purely for cosmetics.

Now you have grind for top tier gear stats.

Grind for quality of life improvements that would be free to all in other games, such as swappable stats on gear or build slots.

Grind for mastery points.

And yes, grind for mounts.

 

These are all things that affect your gameplay dramatically, and have definite impacts on how fun or easy you'll find any new content. And despite the protestations of the majority in this thread, they are only available to those (with or without jobs and families) who choose to dedicate all of their free time to Guild Wars 2 and Guild Wars 2 alone.

 

I know, because I am currently held hostage by the game this way myself. I just choose to recognise and acknowledge it.

Most others are uncomfortable admitting that the game holds sway over their lives this way, so will defend the game to the hilt, in a heady combination of buyer's remorse and confirmation bias.