Icebrood Saga - best story so far

[Poormany.4507]

33 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Except this is demonstrably untrue.

 

IBS is not the entirety of Primordus and Jormag's story, and trying to act like it was is simply an argument in bad faith. Primordus and Jormag's story goes all the way back to LWS3 where Primordus got two maps/releases focused on it(Ember Bay/Draconis Mons), and Jormag got one(Bitterfrost). In IBS Jormag got two maps focused on it(Bjora and Drizzlewood), and Primordus was going to get one(likely the Centaur Homelands), and then we would have had the Dragonstorm meta map. While we lost the physical maps themselves, all the narrative beats from that got moved into Champions.

 

Primordus didn't have just a few lines, and a 20 minute ending, it had literally the same amount of direct narrative expansion that Zhaitan, Mordremoth, Kralkatorrik, and Jormag got. Which is the three maps(or two maps +DRMs) and a meta fight.

 

Zhaitan got the majority of the entire core story of focus (all of Orr + 3-4ish core maps. Mordremoth got the entirety of focus in HoT, LWS2, and could include LWS1 since it was involved behind Scarlet (All of Heart of Maguuma, Silverwastes, and Dry top). Kralk got the entirely of PoF and half of LWS4 (all of the Crystal Desert and Elona Maps + 2-3 LWS4 maps). Jormag got the entirely of Icebrood Saga, Bitterfrost, Draconis Mons, and several Shiverpeaks maps in core (all IBS maps + 2 LWS3 maps + 3-4 Core maps). Primordus got one or two quarters of episodes in Core and a few minor map sections, Ember Bay/sections of Draconis Mons, and a few DRMs (<2 maps  and scattered events outside). Other than Ember Bay, I don't think we got any maps exclusively focused on Primordus or the destroyers in GW2, while the others all got multiple expansion-pack (counting Core as paid originally) maps in which they were the main focus/enemy. This seems to show that Primordus received significantly less focus and maps than the others.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Poormany.4507

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

23 minutes ago, Poormany.4507 said:

Zhaitan got the majority of the entire core story of focus (all of Orr + 3-4ish core maps. Mordremoth got the entirety of focus in HoT, LWS2, and could include LWS1 since it was involved behind Scarlet (All of Heart of Maguuma, Silverwastes, and Dry top). Kralk got the entirely of PoF and half of LWS4 (all of the Crystal Desert and Elona Maps + 2-3 LWS4 maps). Jormag got the entirely of Icebrood Saga, Bitterfrost, and Draconis Mons (all IBS maps + 2 LWS3 maps). Primordus got one or two quarters of episodes in Core, Ember Bay/Draconis Mons, and a few DRMs (2 maps  and scattered events outside). This seems to show that Primordus received significantly less focus and maps than the others.

Well no.

• Zhaitan didn't get the majority of the core story. The majority of the core story was various unrelated adventures based on race/orders that covered the whole spectrum of dragon minions. Zhaitan was only the focus of the latter 1/3 of the core story.
• LWS1 was about Scarlet, not Mordremoth.
• PoF was about Balthazar. Kralkatorrik was only in it at the very end, and his minions were absent in multiple maps of the expansion, and only really a focus in the last map of the expansion.
• Jormag didn't get the entirety of IBS, since 6 of the DRMs, and the Wildfire instance(replacing the two map halves he would have gotten) were about Primordus, not Jormag.
• Jormag had nothing to do with Draconis Mons in LWS3, at all.

 

The real focus on

• Zhaitan was the three Orr maps(Straights of Devastation, Malchor's Leap, and Cursed Shore) capped off with Arah story mode.
• Mordremoth was the three HoT maps(Verdant Brink, Auric Basin, and Tangled Depths) capped off with Dragon's Stand to be its Arah.
• Kralkatorrik had Vabbi, Jahai, and Thunderhead. Capped off with Dragonfall
• Jormag had Bitterfrost Frontier, Bjora, and Drizzlewood. Capped off with Dragonstorm
• Primordus had Ember Bay, Draconis Mons, the DRMS, and Dragonstorm

three maps + meta was the pattern for the Elder Dragons.

 

And all of the Elder Dragons had "prelude" content back in core. Or at least added retroactively for Mordremoth.

• Zhaitan was in the southern part of Bloodtide, and all over Sparkfly(where he had his boss Teq)
• Jormag was in Wayfarer, Snowden, and Frostgorge(where it has its boss the Claw)
• Kralk was in Fields of Ruin, Iron Marches, and Blazeridge(where it had its boss the Shatterer)
• Primordus was in Brisban, Metrica, Kessex, Timberline, Lornar's Pass, and Mount Malestrom(where it has its boss the Mega Destroyer)
• Mordremoth got parts of Dry Top, and Silverwastes(where it had it boss the Vinewraith)

All the dragons got pretty equal "core" content when it comes to their minions showing up.

Edited May 23, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Jaken.6801]

On 5/22/2021 at 7:41 PM, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

There isn't anything to explore. As mentioned, when the Dwarves become stone they gave up everything about their previous lives and civilization. The Dwarves have nothing, and are nothing, beyond quasi-immortal creatures of stone who spend all day every day smashing Destroyers to bits. There are no Dwarven cities, no Dwarven art, no Dwarven culture. There are no baby Dwarves, no need to eat, little if any need to sleep. The Dwarves are, and do, nothing but fight, all day, every day, as part of a magically driven need to kill the Destroyers.

I think odgen and the other stone dwarf we find beg to differ.
They seem very much aware of themselves and don't seem to be magically pulled back into the next hole, or start digging to get back into the fight.
Even the one that has been smashed doesn't try to jump out and smash the nearby destroyer, with what is left of him.

Yes, they don't need to rest, sleep or anything, but they are not mindless beings.
They will fight an endless fight, sure, but that doesn't mean that they won't do anything else. They got a hundred years to build some kind of society, even if it is a non resting one.
They need to reforge equipment, fortify positions, etc.
There is a whole lot they can do.

As for Primordous. Yes, he moved... but what else did he really do, except of laisurely consuming magic, flowing through the planets magma from one source to the next? He lived it up pretty cozy, to be honest.
He didn't even react to Balthazar being in front of him. Even with depleted magic, he would still be godly snack.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

2 hours ago, Jaken.6801 said:

I think odgen and the other stone dwarf we find beg to differ.
They seem very much aware of themselves and don't seem to be magically pulled back into the next hole, or start digging to get back into the fight.
Even the one that has been smashed doesn't try to jump out and smash the nearby destroyer, with what is left of him.

Yes, they don't need to rest, sleep or anything, but they are not mindless beings.
They will fight an endless fight, sure, but that doesn't mean that they won't do anything else. They got a hundred years to build some kind of society, even if it is a non resting one.
They need to reforge equipment, fortify positions, etc.
There is a whole lot they can do.

As for Primordous. Yes, he moved... but what else did he really do, except of laisurely consuming magic, flowing through the planets magma from one source to the next? He lived it up pretty cozy, to be honest.
He didn't even react to Balthazar being in front of him. Even with depleted magic, he would still be godly snack.

Except Ogden is working with the Priory in working to find ways against the Dragon minions, and Rhoban was working with the Priory to find ancient dwarven artifacts... to help fight against the dragon minions. The sheer single minded fury they had back when Jalis Ironhammr first performed the rite may have worm down over the years, but they are still ultimately driven by their singular goal to fight the dragon minions.

 

Societies result out of the need for things. The first family units of humanity came together to form the first villages out of a need for more people to achieve larger things. The Dwarves have no needs. They don't need food, water, sleep, or even shelter. They don't need smiths to make armor, as their body is armor. Things like art, music, and recreation, would be nonexistent in Stone Dwarven life as they don't need any of these things to fight the Dragon minions. At best they would have quasi fort like structures in various places where they can attack the destroyers. But those would be military forts like we see of the Lionguard Havens, or the various Pact camps in later maps. Military locations with strictly military focus, lacking any real cultural developments or trappings.

 

Primordus didn't react to Balthazar because Balthazar had turned on Taimi's machine which stunned him This is also why the Destroyers just freeze up at the end of the Draconis Mons release. The same thing supposedly happened to Jormag and the Iceboord at the same time. Besides that he

• Spread his forces throughout the depths. Destroying the six major Asuran cities, and pushing the Asura and Skritt to the surface.
• Spent that time in an unending war against the Stone Dwarves, who were the ones keeping most of his forces down in the depths.
• Began surfacing in places all across Tyira, including Metrica, Brisban, Kessex, the Dominion of Winds, Mount Maelstrom, the Desert Highlands, Ember Bay, Draconis Mons, Lornar's Pass, and Timberline Falls.
• Attacked Tarir, and attempted to kill Aurene.
• Tried to cause multiple volcanoes to explode, which would have caused massive damage to the surrounding areas, as well as empowered his Destroyers.
• Launched a full scale invasion of Tyria after Jormag awoke. Launching attacks in Metrica, Brisban, Gendgarran, Thunderhead, the Fields of Ruin, and Fireheart rise, as well as successfully invading the Centuar's Homeland, and causing mass devastation there/pushing them out in the process.(the latter location probably being where Pirmordus's third map would have been for episodes 5/6 of the IBS)

Hes been quite busy throughout GW2's narrative.

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Jaken.6801]

 

On 5/25/2021 at 9:52 PM, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Except Ogden is working with the Priory in working to find ways against the Dragon minions, and Rhoban was working with the Priory to find ancient dwarven artifacts... to help fight against the dragon minions. The sheer single minded fury they had back when Jalis Ironhammr first performed the rite may have worm down over the years, but they are still ultimately driven by their singular goal to fight the dragon minions.

 

Societies result out of the need for things. The first family units of humanity came together to form the first villages out of a need for more people to achieve larger things. The Dwarves have no needs. They don't need food, water, sleep, or even shelter. They don't need smiths to make armor, as their body is armor. Things like art, music, and recreation, would be nonexistent in Stone Dwarven life as they don't need any of these things to fight the Dragon minions. At best they would have quasi fort like structures in various places where they can attack the destroyers. But those would be military forts like we see of the Lionguard Havens, or the various Pact camps in later maps. Military locations with strictly military focus, lacking any real cultural developments or trappings.

 

Primordus didn't react to Balthazar because Balthazar had turned on Taimi's machine which stunned him This is also why the Destroyers just freeze up at the end of the Draconis Mons release. The same thing supposedly happened to Jormag and the Iceboord at the same time. Besides that he

• Spread his forces throughout the depths. Destroying the six major Asuran cities, and pushing the Asura and Skritt to the surface.
• Spent that time in an unending war against the Stone Dwarves, who were the ones keeping most of his forces down in the depths.
• Began surfacing in places all across Tyira, including Metrica, Brisban, Kessex, the Dominion of Winds, Mount Maelstrom, the Desert Highlands, Ember Bay, Draconis Mons, Lornar's Pass, and Timberline Falls.
• Attacked Tarir, and attempted to kill Aurene.
• Tried to cause multiple volcanoes to explode, which would have caused massive damage to the surrounding areas, as well as empowered his Destroyers.
• Launched a full scale invasion of Tyria after Jormag awoke. Launching attacks in Metrica, Brisban, Gendgarran, Thunderhead, the Fields of Ruin, and Fireheart rise, as well as successfully invading the Centuar's Homeland, and causing mass devastation there/pushing them out in the process.(the latter location probably being where Pirmordus's third map would have been for episodes 5/6 of the IBS)

Hes been quite busy throughout GW2's narrative.

 

Even if the dwarfs are walking weapons, they still got conciousness.

And you just said that Odgen and Rhoban were working on better ways to fight the EDs. So what stops the other dwarfs to do the same?

Your argument doesn't even disprove anything I said.

Even if they don't need food or rest. They still need to regroup, fortify positions, replace and collect parts, create better equipment, make breakthroughs, etc.

They got a lot of needs that constitute a society. A society of an eternal war against the minions of Primordus, but still a society that forms, based on these needs. Anything to keep the machine going and improve whats there.
The dwarfs were inventors, smiths. They won't bash themsleves against the wall for eternity, if they got the unlimited energy to create better ways to do so.

Which brings me back to Odgen and Rhoban. You say non of these "need" recreation? However, they seem pretty sentient. They still banter. Even battlebrothers who fight an eternal war will have these things. They might even have music, in terms of battledrums and shouts.
Anything to coordinate, anything to keep them going.

They didn't turn into mindless machines, because then we wouldn't be able to talk to any of the Stone Dwarfes like we do. They are still sentient, fearless and driven to fight, but still sentient.

As for Balthi and Primordus.
If I'm not mistaken, he went down first and didn't activate the machine. He did it when we were there.
He gloated and we saw live how he absorbed the power and how activated it.
(which, by the way, is of course mostly gameplay, not logical. Logically Primordus wouldn't need much power from that position to do anything. Just raise the magma, but that wouldn't be so climactic and we would be toast.)
So enough time, a bloodstone charged god was there in front of Primordus. Heck, we were in his domain, litteraly when we went down the vulcano and Balthazar didn't have Dwaynas mirror anymore.
Sure he could have masked his magic in another form, being a god, but that's still more than enough time.

And yes, Primordus army does appear in several places, though mostly because he is litterally the most mobile. Aside from DSD, who is mostly used to be a tease, any other dragon needed to move directly, while Primordus used the magma channels under the earth.
Krakatorik? direct branding, by causing desasters and flying over stuff
Jormag? direct whispers, through ice
Mordremoth? Expanding from the Maguuma jungle.
Zaithan? raising armies via proxy, from Orr
DSD?  No one knows, but could theoretcially be everywhere.

The fact that Primordus minions do appear can, aside from IBS where it is more "direct", be just coincidence, not causation. Primordus had a subway net under Tyria that he used.

And we shouldn't forget that the "attack" on Aurene can be twofold. 1. She played magic sponge and 2. Balthazar was there, plotting stuff. We can't ignore these two things.

So we can't say exactly if it was volentary, or if he just followed the next tasty snack.

So yeah, we know that he fights the stone dwarfs and "supposedly" is in a war with Jormag, an unreliable source. The spirits of the wild call him wild, primal and unhinged, but yeah. That's where it ends. Everything is by proxy and even Zaithan was more talktive through his generals, than Primordus.

Just being present, doesn't mean that he played a big role. He was mostly a tool, like the DSD is. A mystery that has been pushed forward, only to end up being more a candle in the wind than a big vulcano.

[Blur.3465]

I loved the overall seriousness of the storytelling. There was no annoying Taimi to constantly talk (at least not always)...so the tone was definitely better than most stories so far.
There are some things that annoyed me though:
- Braham............
- Ending
- Bangar's 'meh' state.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Champions pretty much ruined ISB as a whole. From how it was stretched out to the finale feeling like an abridged summary.

 

Grothmar Valley and Bjora Marches (complete) was really great content.

 

Drizzlewood Coast was when the problems became apparent. Meta focused maps don't appeal to the majority of players, otherwise Dragonstand would be active more than it isn't . Silverwastes is the exception, because they force every player into it.

[Luthan.5236]

So far I find it to be underwhelming. Story-wise I think I enjoyed season 2 - cause it was really focused on story and not too many new maps or repetitive content.

 

Icebrood the Drizzlewood and Grothmar - nice maps and story missions. Also the meta in Drizzlewood is nice (but lengthy). Bjora has boring map events and boring story missions. But at least the meta is on a timer and not too annoying to quickly do the stuff needed for the mastery points (15 times doing it ... just joining for the end).

 

I am just doing champions atm. 1 DRM each day ... and they already feel lengthy and slow (20-30 minutes without the challenges when doing it solo for the first time ... maybe with masteries it will get easier). Probably not doing the DRMs repeatedly for skins/seal farming (maybe every now and then when they are on daily once the dailies get moved to a rotation like with the previous seaons).

 

The idea was nice: Re-using old maps. And I liked that. But the execution: Boring .... should have made it shorter or more different. (Instead of a long and grindy boss with lots of HP maybe some other stuff. Also that mastery insight felt pretty much boring ... they could as well have added this to first completion - that mastery point. You need to got out of your way - in a mission where you actually are meant to defend stuff - to get the insight. Or you just get it after the mission ... and no real challenge.)

 

That Bangar/Jormag talk was nice though. (Some happened inside the Champions chapter but a lot was outside for the "confer with Bangar" achievement.)

[Tyncale.1629]

My dislike for Rytlock as a useless, brainless sidekick from the Commander has grown further, and unfortunately my dislike for Braham has not dwindled after the semi-heroic role they gave him. I do like a few maps of the IBS though, its not all bad. Exept the Masteries. SO bad. 

[Joote.4081]

How can anyone take any of the story's lines seriously when your comrades stand and watch you get slaughtered two feet away and don't lift a finger, in fact sometimes they are discussing the weather while you bleed out..

I mean the whole thing is sooooo Micky mouse.

[Teratus.2859]

I actually liked the bulk of IBS, it's just the end which was atrociously bad.
Unfortunately bad enough to tarnish the whole season imo.

Really can't argue with the first few releases, good story, Jormag was exceptionally creepy and brilliant, some epic open world content like Metal Legion etc, still one of the best events in the game if you ask me.
The whole Charr civil war stuff.. again some of the best open world content in the game.

And then Champions came along and took a giant steamy GOT Season 8 dump on the whole saga..  and ruined it.
What a waste.