Pet swapping whilst downed - Soulbeast

[Faolain.2374]

So i've just been roaming for an hour or so and kept getting into a fight with a Soulbeast, who I managed to down a few times. But whilst down, the first pet (Smoke Scale) would do its evade skill and then the knockdown, it'd then swap to the next pet (Gazelle) which instantly also did it's cc skill, and then of course the ranger itself interrupted my stomp for a 3rd time. I thought this might have been like a one off bug or something but then it happened another 4 times, with the same ranger, in 4 different fights. Is this some bug or is it some interaction that ranger just normally has? Either way it needs fixing because it took about 12 seconds to actually stomp this ranger, if it wasn't a 1v1 encounter then he would have definitely got up since it just kept interrupting and self ressing.

[Zyreva.1078]

Ranger has always been able to swap and control the pets while in downstate, so i guess that's an intended behaviour. Whether it is also intended for soulbeast to regain the ability to swap pets is questionable, but ultimatively something only the devs can answer. Since it has been like this for quite a while, i guess the answer is "yes".

Whether it is balanced or not is of course a completely different story (but that is true for many downstate mechanics).

[Faolain.2374]

16 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Ranger has always been able to swap and control the pets while in downstate, so i guess that's an intended behaviour. Whether it is also intended for soulbeast to regain the ability to swap pets is questionable, but ultimatively something only the devs can answer. Since it has been like this for quite a while, i guess the answer is "yes".

Whether it is balanced or not is of course a completely different story (but that is true for many downstate mechanics).

Interesting. How does this pet swapping actually happen though? Since I’d imagine you lose your actual button to pet swap no? Even on core 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Faolain.2374

[Zyreva.1078]

The "pet ui" disappears, but keys for pet control still funktion as usual..

[Sobx.1758]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/forum/9-bugs-game-forum-website/  ?

[Faolain.2374]

3 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

The "pet ui" disappears, but keys for pet control still funktion as usual..

I mean that seems incredibly busted if true. In situations like i mentioned in my first post, where the ranger essentially prevented itself being stomped for 12+ seconds by chain ccing and nearly managed to self ress. That  gives ranger such an advantage in an already strong downed state when outnumbering, and makes it the best downed state of any profession by quite a bit I’d say. 

[Faolain.2374]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/forum/9-bugs-game-forum-website/  ?

I mean I wasn’t sure if it was bug or just normal. Still don’t lmao but rather than join the cry wolf trend in the bug section I thought I’d see what others say first 

[Sobx.1758]

48 minutes ago, Faolain.2374 said:

I mean I wasn’t sure if it was bug or just normal. Still don’t lmao but rather than join the cry wolf trend in the bug section I thought I’d see what others say first 

Ok.

For me it looks like something unintended, because it's a part of minor trait (right?) and I don't see why downstate would turn it off. Is there anything similar among other traits/classes? (not necessarily a question directed to you specifically 😛 )

 

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Choppy.4183]

1 hour ago, Faolain.2374 said:

I mean that seems incredibly busted if true. In situations like i mentioned in my first post, where the ranger essentially prevented itself being stomped for 12+ seconds by chain ccing and nearly managed to self ress. That  gives ranger such an advantage in an already strong downed state when outnumbering, and makes it the best downed state of any profession by quite a bit I’d say. 

 

The only thing that seems unintended about it is that soulbeast isn't supposed to be able to swap pets at all in combat. So being able to do it in downstate is the oversight. Otherwise, working as it always has.

[anduriell.6280]

I personally don't see anything wrong with the pet swap while downed, it is the class mechanic after all.

 

If you can not finish the ranger in during that time then you wouldn't be able to finish it and survive anyway. 

[lodjur.1284]

On 5/26/2021 at 10:18 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

I personally don't see anything wrong with the pet swap while downed, it is the class mechanic after all.

 

If you can not finish the ranger in during that time then you wouldn't be able to finish it and survive anyway. 

I mean it's hardly a problem if you only fight one ranger, but if you're in a 1v2+ for example, then getting CCed 3 times by a downed player sure is something

 

Also most likely a bug

[bigo.9037]

6 hours ago, lodjur.1284 said:

I mean it's hardly a problem if you only fight one ranger, but if you're in a 1v2+ for example, then getting CCed 3 times by a downed player sure is something

 

Also most likely a bug

It is not a bug. At worst an oversight on SLB. Ranger has always been able to swap pets in downedstate. You’re down, but your pet is still alive, so you can control the pets. 
 

I don’t have a problem with the pet swapping at all. The REAL issue, is the self / pet res skill that is completely overtuned. Way too strong. Needs a rework. But hey, all of downedstate is overtuned and needs to be removed lol

[lodjur.1284]

32 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

It is not a bug. At worst an oversight on SLB.

I don't see why it would be intended when they normally can't 

 

If it's unintended it's a bug.

32 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

Ranger has always been able to swap pets in downedstate. You’re down, but your pet is still alive, so you can control the pets. 
 

Ye I know, certain that isn't a bug.

32 minutes ago, bigo.9037 said:

I don’t have a problem with the pet swapping at all. The REAL issue, is the self / pet res skill that is completely overtuned. Way too strong. Needs a rework. But hey, all of downedstate is overtuned and needs to be removed lol

Kinda

 

The CC is overall the problem 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 5/24/2021 at 1:59 PM, Faolain.2374 said:

So i've just been roaming for an hour or so and kept getting into a fight with a Soulbeast, who I managed to down a few times. But whilst down, the first pet (Smoke Scale) would do its evade skill and then the knockdown, it'd then swap to the next pet (Gazelle) which instantly also did it's cc skill, and then of course the ranger itself interrupted my stomp for a 3rd time. I thought this might have been like a one off bug or something but then it happened another 4 times, with the same ranger, in 4 different fights. Is this some bug or is it some interaction that ranger just normally has? Either way it needs fixing because it took about 12 seconds to actually stomp this ranger, if it wasn't a 1v1 encounter then he would have definitely got up since it just kept interrupting and self ressing.

 

Try backing up? Also, if you are getting chain CC'd and cannot apply a boon, stealth, or dodge, how do you stomp necro's then when they have extremely strong condi pressure in downstate? They can also fear you while in downstate which is a very long CC.  

 

I'm sorry, but as long as thief 'invis stomp' remains in the game, this is nothing.  Thematically it makes sense as well as the ranger is downed, not the pet.    

Edited June 1, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Kodama.6453]

21 hours ago, bigo.9037 said:

It is not a bug. At worst an oversight on SLB. Ranger has always been able to swap pets in downedstate. You’re down, but your pet is still alive, so you can control the pets. 
 

I don’t have a problem with the pet swapping at all. The REAL issue, is the self / pet res skill that is completely overtuned. Way too strong. Needs a rework. But hey, all of downedstate is overtuned and needs to be removed lol

That something has always been there doesn't necessarily mean it isn't a bug.

 

Think about it:

• Literally no other class has access to their class mechanic while in downstate with ranger being the only exception (revenant can't legend swap, warrior doesn't get downstate bursts, guardian can't activate virtues, thief can't steal/use stolen abilities/has stealth attacks, engineer can't use toolbelt, Elementalist can't swap attunements, mesmer can't shatter, necromancer can't activate shroud)
• While in downstate, the interface for your pet disappears. This implies to players without further knowledge that they don't have access to the pet mechanics (pet skills, swap, etc.) anymore, just like the  interface for all other classes. If it would be intended that they can still use the mechanic, then it would be more logical if Anet would still show you the interface for the pet in the downstate.

 

These points make me think that it has been a bug from the very beginning... and anet simply never bothered to fix it. It just is more obvious that anet doesn't care to fix this bug now with southeast showcasing that an obviously unintended interaction (southeast still being able to swap pets while in downstate) is not getting fixed.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[anduriell.6280]

Either way, being a unintended effect or not i don't see the pet swap while downed like a big issue. 

As very well it is said:

8 hours ago, lodjur.1284 said:

I mean it's hardly a problem if you only fight one ranger, but if you're in a 1v2+ for example, then getting CCed 3 times by a downed player sure is something

With the "F to Revive" and without stability that situation would not change even if the ranger could have had access to 2 CC instead 3. 

 

The result would have been the same, the player overextended trying to stump in that situation and  it would have been a loss either way. The 3 CCs just happened to come 1 from ranger and 2 from pets. 

 

To me this post is just a L2P issue more than a overpowered mechanic. Other downstates are worst offenders like the damage coming from the necro downstate or the mist form from the elementalist. 

[Kodama.6453]

5 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

Either way, being a unintended effect or not i don't see the pet swap while downed like a big issue. 

As very well it is said:

With the "F to Revive" and without stability that situation would not change even if the ranger could have had access to 2 CC instead 3. 

 

The result would have been the same, the player overextended trying to stump in that situation and  it would have been a loss either way. The 3 CCs just happened to come 1 from ranger and 2 from pets. 

 

To me this post is just a L2P issue more than a overpowered mechanic. Other downstates are worst offenders like the damage coming from the necro downstate or the mist form from the elementalist. 

At the very least, it should be fixed for soulbeast. It makes no sense for an elite spec which is specifically restricted by not being able to swap pets to be able to do it while in the downstate.

 

Still think the access to pet mechanics in general (pet skills, pet swap) in downstate in general is a bug, but anet should at ,east put the minimum effort into fixing their stuff by fixing the obvious offender with soulbeast.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

3 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

At the very least, it should be fixed for soulbeast. It makes no sense for an elite spec which is specifically restricted by not being able to swap pets to be able to do it while in the downstate.

 

Still think the access to pet mechanics in general (pet skills, pet swap) in downstate in general is a bug, but anet should at ,east put the minimum effort into fixing their stuff by fixing the obvious offender with soulbeast.

You are joking, right? You are and engineer, learn your class and you will stomp any soulbeast when he will be downed.

OMG, these days every player who doesn't know how to play, not even his own class, complains about the other class who beat him.

[Kodama.6453]

5 minutes ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

You are joking, right? You are and engineer, learn your class and you will stomp any soulbeast when he will be downed.

OMG, these days every player who doesn't know how to play, not even his own class, complains about the other class who beat him.

Erm, since when is pointing out bugs complaining about something being overpowered?

 

It is so obviously a bug that it not getting fixed is basically anet telling us "yes, we know there are bug in this game, we just don't give any kittens".

 

I couldn't care less if Anet is releasing a compensation buff to make up for it or stuff. But if there are interactions in the game which are extremely obvious bugs, yes, I want anet to show that they care and fix that stuff. 

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

1 minute ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Erm, since when is pointing out bugs complaining about something being overpowered?

 

It is so obviously a bug that it not getting fixed is basically anet telling us "yes, we know there are bug in this game, we just don't give any kittens".

 

I couldn't care less if Anet is releasing a compensation buff to make up for it or stuff. But if there are interactions in the game which are extremely obvious bugs, yes, I want anet to show that they care and fix that stuff. 

In your opinion it is a bug that fact some classes are doing way more damage when they are in down than when they were alive? Or is just as intended? Many times I saw players who lost against another class, but from downstate they downed the one who beat him, and kill him. For me this is most stupid and shouldn't exist in this game, than a ranger who can swap pet in downstate.

[Kodama.6453]

12 minutes ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

In your opinion it is a bug that fact some classes are doing way more damage when they are in down than when they were alive? Or is just as intended? Many times I saw players who lost against another class, but from downstate they downed the one who beat him, and kill him. For me this is most stupid and shouldn't exist in this game, than a ranger who can swap pet in downstate.

You realise that these things are not mutually exclusive?

 

While I don't think that necromancer downstate is bugged currently, it definitely is overtuned and should get nerfed. This is not a scenario of me having to decide for one thing or another, tho. I can advocate for both, necromancer downstate to get nerfed and ranger downstate (or at least soulbeast downstate) to get it's bug fixed.

 

I just didn't see a reason to discuss necromancer downstate here, because this thread here is about the unintended interaction of soulbeast being able to pet swap while in downstate. But if you directly ask me, yes, they should address it as well.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

2 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

You realise that these things are not mutually exclusive?

 

While I don't think that necromancer downstate is bugged currently, it definitely is overturned and should get nerfed. This is not a scenario of me having to decide for one thing or another, tho. I can advocate for both, necromancer downstate to get nerfed and ranger downstate (or at least soulbeast downstate) to get it's bug fixed.

 

I just didn't see a reason to discuss necromancer downstate here, because this thread here is about the unintended interaction of soulbeast being able to pet swap while in downstate. But if you directly ask me, yes, they should address it as well.

The pet swap in combat was taken from Soulbeast because the class could merged too easily from damage form to defensive (tanky) form. This was the reason. Well, when the Soulbeast is in down state, he can't merge, so he can't benefit from beastmode stats, that's why he can swap pet when he is in down state, because in down state, he is basically a ranger, not even a Druid who still can root (I think, I didn't try this). When a Soulbeast is in down state he is not different from a Core Ranger.

Now you are satisfied? Is not a bug.

And I bring necro in discussion, just to show you that are other classes with more big issue than ranger, where they are in down state. Necro is not the only one!

[Kodama.6453]

6 minutes ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

The pet swap in combat was taken from Soulbeast because the class could merged too easily from damage form to defensive (tanky) form. This was the reason. Well, when the Soulbeast is in down state, he can't merge, so he can't benefit from beastmode stats, that's why he can swap pet when he is in down state, because in down state, he is basically a ranger, not even a Druid who still can root (I think, I didn't try this). When a Soulbeast is in down state he is not different from a Core Ranger.

Now you are satisfied? Is not a bug.

And I bring necro in discussion, just to show you that are other classes with more big issue than ranger, where they are in down state. Necro is not the only one!

Now you are just making ridiculous claims and comparisons to justify a bug to not be one.

 

Fine, if you want to play this game, I can do it, too:

Pet swap was put on soulbeast as a trade off. According to Anet's philosophy, elite specs are supposed to lose parts of core mechanics to get access to new elite spec mechanics. Soulbeast used to be a direct upgrade from ranger, since it had access to everything a ranger had, but the merge mechanic on top of it.

 

Therefore, soulbeasts are supposed to lose access to the core mechanic of in combat pet swap.

You claim that a soulbeast in downstate is no different from a ranger, but when targeting a soulbeast in downstate it still shows the soulbeast icon for me, not the ranger one. Therefore they are still a soulbeasts and should not have access to pet swap while in combat, which they definitely still are while in downstate.

 

I don't know why you try so desperately to keep an obvious bug in the game, but I will still keep advocating for fixing it.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

6 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Now you are just making ridiculous claims and comparisons to justify a bug to not be one.

 

Fine, if you want to play this game, I can do it, too:

Pet swap was put on soulbeast as a trade off. According to Anet's philosophy, elite specs are supposed to lose parts of core mechanics to get access to new elite spec mechanics. Soulbeast used to be a direct upgrade from ranger, since it had access to everything a ranger had, but the merge mechanic on top of it.

 

Therefore, soulbeasts are supposed to lose access to the core mechanic of in combat pet swap.

You claim that a soulbeast in downstate is no different from a ranger, but when targeting a soulbeast in downstate it still shows the soulbeast icon for me, not the ranger one. Therefore they are still a soulbeasts and should not have access to pet swap while in combat, which they definitely still are while in downstate.

 

I don't know why you try so desperately to keep an obvious bug in the game, but I will still keep advocating for fixing it.

I am sorry, but you don't understand anything. For you the difference between Core Ranger and Soulbeast is an icon? You don't want to understand that in down state both Ranger and Soulbeast have the same skills and pets can do the same thing? Jut an icon is your problem. You want Anet to change Soulbeast icon when he is in down state to Core icon? This will satisfy you? Because once again, when Core Ranger and Soulbeast are in down state, they have the same skills, pets can do the same things, they are not different. Soulbeast doesn't benefit from pet anymore, not more than a Core Ranger. 

Anyway, this is my last answer to you, I don't want to spend time with someone who his biggest problem is an icon.

[Shaogin.2679]

18 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Now you are just making ridiculous claims and comparisons to justify a bug to not be one.

 

Fine, if you want to play this game, I can do it, too:

Pet swap was put on soulbeast as a trade off. According to Anet's philosophy, elite specs are supposed to lose parts of core mechanics to get access to new elite spec mechanics. Soulbeast used to be a direct upgrade from ranger, since it had access to everything a ranger had, but the merge mechanic on top of it.

 

Therefore, soulbeasts are supposed to lose access to the core mechanic of in combat pet swap.

You claim that a soulbeast in downstate is no different from a ranger, but when targeting a soulbeast in downstate it still shows the soulbeast icon for me, not the ranger one. Therefore they are still a soulbeasts and should not have access to pet swap while in combat, which they definitely still are while in downstate.

 

I don't know why you try so desperately to keep an obvious bug in the game, but I will still keep advocating for fixing it.

There isn't really any reason to think it is a bug. If you want it changed, fine, whatever, but thinking it is just some unnoticed bug that has existed from the start of the game instead of intended behavior is a pretty big stretch. As for the reason Soulbeast can't swap pets, you are both right technically. However, Anet abandoned the trade-off concept, just look at Guardian for example who's virtues become straight up upgrades with Elite specs. 

 

If they decide to change things now and rebalance down states across the board, then whatever. There is no reason to solely focus on the Ranger downstate while leaving all others as they are though.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Shaogin.2679