Class switching before match start

[razaelll.8324]

Hello Arenanet,

 

If someone of you guys read this i would like to sujest to remove class switching before match start. As far as i know your match making system is trying to prevent class stacking, but it becomes pointless when people can switch their class after the match making is done. This also allows people to match manipulate by signing in with a class which is not played much and switch to meta class after they enter the match and in this way they can stack same class in the same team. In my opinion this should not be allowed because of the reason above.

 

In my opinion people witch try to switch class before the match start should get dishonor.

 

People should be able to return in the match only if they go on the same class witch they signed in for the match.

 

Thank you for your time in advance and stay healthy!

Edited May 28, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[ThrakathNar.4537]

Class stacking, especially of necros, can be a really huge pain, but in my opinion it's a necessary evil. If A-Net removed the option to change your class in the warmup, it would make it possible for the matchmaker to give you completely unwinnable games with nothing you could do to change that.

 

Because you don't get to select your role when entering the game (support, duelist, roamer, etc) it means that the game doesn't know how to give you a balanced team comp, and can limit your team's access to key roles that make the game impossible to win against your opponent. Removing the option for someone to swap to support or swap from roamer (because the game absolutely can give and has given me in the past two soloqing thieves on the same team) just makes the game even more imbalanced. Not only this, but the matchmaker can also give your enemy team a comp/class lineup that hard-counters your entire team, making the game just unfair.

 

Ultimately, if A-Net did introduce this change, people would only queue on the professions where they knew that they would be able to change their builds to meet the needs of their team without needing to reroll. You'd probably see more guards, necros, revs, and maybe more engineers, because those are the classes that have that option.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

the community has deemed hot potato is skill based, you must be wrong

[Disney.7826]

when u will get 2 thieves or 2 sup guards on ur team and only 1 in oppo u will say ur own post isnt smart

[Disney.7826]

2 hours ago, ThrakathNar.4537 said:Because you don't get to select your role when entering the game (support, duelist, roamer, etc) it means that the game doesn't know how to give you a balanced team comp, and can limit your team's access to key roles that make the game impossible to win against your opponent. 

Low rated players mostly dont know even what their role is

[Khalisto.5780]

not reading all comments

 

but you'd also be thrown into matches you lost by standard cuz you can't win against their comp assuming similar player skill level

 

 

[razaelll.8324]

4 hours ago, ThrakathNar.4537 said:

Class stacking, especially of necros, can be a really huge pain, but in my opinion it's a necessary evil. If A-Net removed the option to change your class in the warmup, it would make it possible for the matchmaker to give you completely unwinnable games with nothing you could do to change that.

 

Because you don't get to select your role when entering the game (support, duelist, roamer, etc) it means that the game doesn't know how to give you a balanced team comp, and can limit your team's access to key roles that make the game impossible to win against your opponent. Removing the option for someone to swap to support or swap from roamer (because the game absolutely can give and has given me in the past two soloqing thieves on the same team) just makes the game even more imbalanced. Not only this, but the matchmaker can also give your enemy team a comp/class lineup that hard-counters your entire team, making the game just unfair.

 

Ultimately, if A-Net did introduce this change, people would only queue on the professions where they knew that they would be able to change their builds to meet the needs of their team without needing to reroll. You'd probably see more guards, necros, revs, and maybe more engineers, because those are the classes that have that option.

I understand your point and it is very fair one. But still i think it would be better to just dont let anyone switch class and have a better match making system or atleast dont let class stacking  or with other words make class changing a bit smarter to prevent 5 of each class in same team.

Edited May 29, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[razaelll.8324]

1 hour ago, Filip.7463 said:

when u will get 2 thieves or 2 sup guards on ur team and only 1 in oppo u will say ur own post isnt smart

Support guardian is not a class but a build so the second guardian can change his build. 

 

I won many games with 2 thiefs in my team. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[The Fear.3865]

I don't have so much time to play gw2, Im used to wvw/PvE while waiting the 5 mins+ q instead of doin nothing in the mists. Also, Im stacking reward tracks boosters on my pvp char that I don't want to throw during long q. 

 

Seems more like a "I can't reroll please nerf" suggestion to me. 

[ThrakathNar.4537]

3 hours ago, razaelll.8324 said:

I understand your point and it is very fair one. But still i think it would be better to just dont let anyone switch class and have a better match making system or atleast dont let class stacking  or with other words make class changing a bit smarter to prevent 5 of each class in same team.

If they had a better matchmaking system that was able to take into account your build, amulet, etc, I would completely agree. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and I personally think that unfair matchups by default is a bigger issue than class stacking.

 

One potential compromise to the issue, however, would be for you to select multiple classes you want when queueing. When you press the queue button, you can select 2-3 of your characters that the game will give you the option to swap to in the warmup. This allows players to queue on a class they want, while also letting the matchmaker know the potential classes you will play, and it can balance the teams accordingly.

[razaelll.8324]

15 minutes ago, ThrakathNar.4537 said:

If they had a better matchmaking system that was able to take into account your build, amulet, etc, I would completely agree. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and I personally think that unfair matchups by default is a bigger issue than class stacking.

 

One potential compromise to the issue, however, would be for you to select multiple classes you want when queueing. When you press the queue button, you can select 2-3 of your characters that the game will give you the option to swap to in the warmup. This allows players to queue on a class they want, while also letting the matchmaker know the potential classes you will play, and it can balance the teams accordingly.

Exactly something like that would be good in my opinion.

[Aktium.9506]

6 hours ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

but you'd also be thrown into matches you lost by standard cuz you can't win against their comp assuming similar player skill level

 

 

It's a sacrifice I am willing to make 👍

[Tayga.3192]

A multiclasser should win more matches since they are more skilled at the game. If you are suffering from necro stacking on enemy team, learn a class to counter them. 

[razaelll.8324]

10 minutes ago, Tayga.3192 said:

A multiclasser should win more matches since they are more skilled at the game. If you are suffering from necro stacking on enemy team, learn a class to counter them. 

I am not suffering from anything, just sharing an opinion and giving a suggestion

Edited May 29, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Class switching is often incorrectly blamed for problems caused by an unbalanced meta. You will notice that bad metas always see more threads complaining about class stacking via switching before round start, and more even metas do not. You can't exploit matchmaking by means of "Queue as weak class, swap to overperforming class"  if the balance team ensures that every class has a viable meta build, and no class is busted.

 

For instance, right now the meta is "meh" and Warrior is underperforming while scourge is consider overtuned, and thus matchmaking can be exploited by queuing as Warrior then swapping to Nec. But this same strategy is not as effective when queuing as a Rev, Engi, or Guardian, because those classes have significantly more strong builds so the benefit of having it be more likely to exist on the other team is not as high.

 

TL;DR Nerf scourge, preferably by reworking parts of it to be less braindead to play. It's far too forgiving. Buff Warrior.  Suddenly, said exploit is less impactful.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Master Ketsu.4569

[razaelll.8324]

3 hours ago, The Fear.3865 said:

I don't have so much time to play gw2, Im used to wvw/PvE while waiting the 5 mins+ q instead of doin nothing in the mists. Also, Im stacking reward tracks boosters on my pvp char that I don't want to throw during long q. 

 

Seems more like a "I can't reroll please nerf" suggestion to me. 

i am not asking for nefing anything and i am playing 6 different classes(dont have more character slots atm) in spvp so no that's not the case of my suggestion

Edited May 29, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[razaelll.8324]

39 minutes ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Class switching is often incorrectly blamed for problems caused by an unbalanced meta. You will notice that bad metas always see more threads complaining about class stacking via switching before round start, and more even metas do not. You can't exploit matchmaking by means of "Queue as weak class, swap to overperforming class"  if the balance team ensures that every class has a viable meta build, and no class is busted.

 

For instance, right now the meta is "meh" and Warrior is underperforming while scourge is consider overtuned, and thus matchmaking can be exploited by queuing as Warrior then swapping to Nec. But this same strategy is not as effective when queuing as a Rev, Engi, or Guardian, because those classes have significantly more strong builds so the benefit of having it be more likely to exist on the other team is not as high.

 

TL;DR Nerf scourge, preferably by reworking parts of it to be less braindead to play. It's far too forgiving. Buff Warrior.  Suddenly, said exploit is less impactful.

 

 

fair point

[Schimmi.6872]

 

14 hours ago, razaelll.8324 said:

Hello Arenanet,

 

If someone of you guys read this i would like to sujest to remove class switching before match start. As far as i know your match making system is trying to prevent class stacking, but it becomes pointless when people can switch their class after the match making is done. This also allows people to match manipulate by signing in with a class which is not played much and switch to meta class after they enter the match and in this way they can stack same class in the same team. In my opinion this should not be allowed because of the reason above.

 

In my opinion people witch try to switch class before the match start should get dishonor.

 

People should be able to return in the match only if they go on the same class witch they signed in for the match.

 

Thank you for your time in advance and stay healthy!

Some years ago anet considered to implement what you propose together with a class based mmr, so they but up a poll and the majority of the players voted against it. Because of this I guess it's not so likely that they will change the current system.

[razaelll.8324]

1 hour ago, Schimmi.6872 said:

 

Some years ago anet considered to implement what you propose together with a class based mmr, so they but up a poll and the majority of the players voted against it. Because of this I guess it's not so likely that they will change the current system.

I see , thanks for the info!

Edited May 29, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[razaelll.8324]

I might be wrong but i feel like if the teams are not stacked with metaclasses this might stimulate people to use different builds and adapt their builds for the current match (instead of switching class) so it might increase the build variaty.

Edited May 29, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[Tinkerer.2167]

no, class swapping is essential... even though the competitive aspect in this game has dwindled next to nothing, that is still one of the redeeming aspects of a competitive game. People choose based on other team choices or they can opt to go with whatever they want, both choices are necessary for freedom and adjusting to comp setups.

 

This isn't just about swapping for the enemy team, it's also beneficial and an obvious needed option for your own team especially in a game mode with a low population.

 

Trying to act like being able to class swap will lead to more build diversity is such a straw man bs argument, put the blame where it needs to be -- anet is just bad at balancing, with or without class swap optional prior to game start. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Tinkerer.2167

[swifti.2590]

I completely agree. You should not be able to change class at the beginning or in the middle of a game, unless there is a more significant penalty apart from a little time lost.

 

Mmo's are rock paper scissor game and class swapping ruins the experience.

[Tinkerer.2167]

23 hours ago, Filip.7463 said:

when u will get 2 thieves or 2 sup guards on ur team and only 1 in oppo u will say ur own post isnt smart

the people putting a confused emoji to your post are literally bronze/silver and don't understand that having 2 of those is like 95% auto loss and nothing you can do about it. 

 

matchmaking would be 50x worse than what it is if they didn't allow changing, and it's actually hard to make it worse with the population and balance.

[razaelll.8324]

5 hours ago, Tinkerer.2167 said:

the people putting a confused emoji to your post are literally bronze/silver and don't understand that having 2 of those is like 95% auto loss and nothing you can do about it. 

 

matchmaking would be 50x worse than what it is if they didn't allow changing, and it's actually hard to make it worse with the population and balance.

 

 

Why are you asuming peoples rating and skill based on emoji?

Edited May 30, 2021 by razaelll.8324

[Locuz.2651]

On 5/28/2021 at 11:37 PM, razaelll.8324 said:

As far as i know your match making system is trying to prevent class stacking

 

The matchmaking is meant to match equally skilled players/teams against eachother. It has nothing to do with classes. 

 

On 5/28/2021 at 11:37 PM, razaelll.8324 said:

If someone of you guys read this i would like to sujest to remove class switching before match start.

 

Class swapping is 100% needed to create balanced matchups. So ppl can swap when there are 3 supports in your team or 3 thieves. Or no supports or roamers. 

 

The only issue i see is double scourge or core + scourge on relatively small maps. But thats mostly a balance issue. Al other class stacking options dont give advantages at all. 

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Locuz.2651