Remember when no one wanted mounts?

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Got it.

Thank you very much for taking time to explain it.

I'm not sure how I feel about it.

I remember playing Runescape for a few months before GW, and it had a quick mode for dueling in open world.

You'd bing a key for on or off, and you could quickly switch if you wanted to challenge other players or be challenged... a lot of times by surprise. 

Not sure if it would work in GW.

Maybe just in specific places, such as designated areas?

 

I mean if bettle racing don't have its own arenas/racing tracks and are in open world, maybe dueling wouldn't be so bad?

Since I've played MMOs with dueling, I can assure you it can be that bad. It's just another tool for trolls. Sure some people will use it as intended, but others will pester and nag  you, follow you around, jump up and down around you,. insult you in map chat.  This isn't all duelers but it's a percentage of them. And that percentage makes the game, for a lot of people distinctly unfun. 

In  a perfect world, dueling would work, but as already stated, there are already places in the game were people can duel.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

1 hour ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Since I've played MMOs with dueling, I can assure you it can be that bad. It's just another tool for trolls. Sure some people will use it as intended, but others will pester and nag  you, follow you around, jump up and down around you,. insult you in map chat.  This isn't all duelers but it's a percentage of them. And that percentage makes the game, for a lot of people distinctly unfun. 

In  a perfect world, dueling would work, but as already stated, there are already places in the game were people can duel.

Agreed.

Very good point.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Designated areas for dueling already exist.  That's what many of us have been saying.  It doesn't need to be put into OWPvE.

Okey doke.

I wasn't aware of that.

Thanks @kharmin.7683

[Danikat.8537]

1 hour ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Since I've played MMOs with dueling, I can assure you it can be that bad. It's just another tool for trolls. Sure some people will use it as intended, but others will pester and nag  you, follow you around, jump up and down around you,. insult you in map chat.  This isn't all duelers but it's a percentage of them. And that percentage makes the game, for a lot of people distinctly unfun. 

In  a perfect world, dueling would work, but as already stated, there are already places in the game were people can duel.

That's been my experience too. Set it so any invite to duel is automatically declined (a feature built into the game to make sure people who don't want it aren't bothered by it) and they just send endless messages in chat or follow you around spamming emotes and jumping right in front of you.

 

Not to mention people duelling on top of bankers, merchants, quest NPCs and other important locations where a lot of people are trying to access basic game features, which makes it difficult to see or talk to the relevant NPCs.

 

Overall it gives the impression that a small number of duellers genuinely want to see how they can do in specific circumstances which almost never come up in any form of real PvP and the majority just want to feel like they're the center of attention and don't care if that's positive attention or if they're annoying everyone around them.

 

Overall I'd say it's better to keep it to appropriate arenas. Those who genuinely want to duel can do so and those who just want attention have a harder time finding ways to annoy everyone in the area.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

Dueling is probably not an xpac selling feature, unlike mount where even alpha testers complained about there being no mounts in the base game.

Currently there are already two options for duels, the first in the guildhall and the second being in edge of the mists.

[Danikat.8537]

9 minutes ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Dueling is probably not an xpac selling feature, unlike mount where even alpha testers complained about there being no mounts in the base game.

Currently there are already two options for duels, the first in the guildhall and the second being in edge of the mists.

 

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that they don't consider the guild hall arena any good because it uses PvE skills. But there's a few others options as well.

 

I would have thought the best one would be the free-for-all arena in the Heart of the Mists because it uses your PvP build and skills, you can get there quickly from anywhere and can get sent back where you were when you're done. When I checked a few days ago there were 3 or 4 pairs of players who appeared to be duelling in there (they were only fighting each other, when one died the other stopped instead of attacking other people and no one else joined their fight).

 

You could also use an actual PvP custom arena and either set it to only allow 1 player on each side or just hope you're not interrupted.

 

There's also 2 other WvW arenas: one in the Obsidian Sanctum and one in Armistice Bastion (which does have the major disadvantage that it requires a pass from the gem store to access). I think you have to be on different teams to fight in Obsidian Sanctum, but the Edge of the Mists and Armistice Bastion arenas let you choose sides when you enter so anyone can fight anyone there.

 

So in total there's 2 options using PvP skills, 3 using WvW skills and 1 using PvE skills.

[XenoSpyro.1780]

On 6/7/2021 at 12:47 PM, Razor.6392 said:

No, there is no difference because there's literally zero trolling in pve lol.

False, there is an entire guild or two dedicated to trolling Teq phases. Same concept applies to trolling phases at other map metas, like Auric. Also, fractal LFG hijacking. Some might count completing events on purpose where failstates end up being more rewarding.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

15 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

 

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that they don't consider the guild hall arena any good because it uses PvE skills. But there's a few others options as well.

 

I would have thought the best one would be the free-for-all arena in the Heart of the Mists because it uses your PvP build and skills, you can get there quickly from anywhere and can get sent back where you were when you're done. When I checked a few days ago there were 3 or 4 pairs of players who appeared to be duelling in there (they were only fighting each other, when one died the other stopped instead of attacking other people and no one else joined their fight).

 

You could also use an actual PvP custom arena and either set it to only allow 1 player on each side or just hope you're not interrupted.

 

There's also 2 other WvW arenas: one in the Obsidian Sanctum and one in Armistice Bastion (which does have the major disadvantage that it requires a pass from the gem store to access). I think you have to be on different teams to fight in Obsidian Sanctum, but the Edge of the Mists and Armistice Bastion arenas let you choose sides when you enter so anyone can fight anyone there.

 

So in total there's 2 options using PvP skills, 3 using WvW skills and 1 using PvE skills.

There's another duel area on top of all those in Sun's Refuge, but like the Guild Hall uses PvE balance. Its also very small; its clear the devs just intended for players to test specific aspects of their builds there and not actually fight.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Astralporing.1957]

On 6/7/2021 at 7:38 PM, Razor.6392 said:

ANet laughed at you lot, then introduced mounts anyway. Now all of you are buying the newest mount skins on release.

 

So hopefully for the newest expansion, dueling will make an appearance. If it did, people would just accept it over time anyway and the loudest voices would eventually start enjoying it too 🙂

 

BRING DUELING AND GUILD WARS ALREADY ANET, IT'S BEEN TOO kitten LONG

Fun fact. Even though Anet did mounts far better than i expected, most of the issues i feared would come out of it did indeed come to pass. And even though i do like how mounts were implemented, i still think in overall i lost on that exchange.

 

So, in case of duelings, Anet might again surprise us with implementing it in some novel way, but the things that make me not want it in the game in the first place are still going to happen (because the only way for Anet to prevent those is to implement duelling in such a way that it will no longer be the duelling that the few people that ask for it want). Also, my dislike of consequences of implementing mounts are quite mild compared to my strong negative feelings against what i'm quite sure dueling would bring with it.

 

Also, mounts can be heavily monetized on their visuals. How would you monetize dueling to rival it?

[Skynet.7201]

When bringing up the resistance to mounts in days gone by, just remember the first rule of Fight Club. 😂

[Rukia.4802]

On 6/8/2021 at 6:21 PM, Vayne.8563 said:

In my opinion, dueling doesn't belong in this game. I'd rather never see it here. I felt the same about raids and I still feel that way.

Thats pretty selfish of you

 

Would give people something to do while waiting for the metas instead of alt tabbing, afking, or looking at their phone. Its nice to see blatant disregard for other peoples fun though, just because of your feels.

[Vayne.8563]

11 minutes ago, Rukia.4802 said:

Thats pretty selfish of you

 

Would give people something to do while waiting for the metas instead of alt tabbing, afking, or looking at their phone. Its nice to see blatant disregard for other peoples fun though, just because of your feels.

It's funny. Some people are asking for the basic nature of the game to be changed. The game was designed to separate PvP from PvE.   You say use the term "my feels" as if my feelings aren't important while ignoring that my feelings have been echoed by many many other people. So what you have is one group of people who want to change the game toward their specific sensibilities. By the same token, there are people who want the game to remain as is, and they seem to be in a pretty high  percentage.  That would seem to indicate that not wanting the game to change because of "my feels" now because a group of people don't want their game changed and developer time to be wasted on something a minority of the playerbase would use. That's not selfish that's practical.

One could argue people who want the devs to waste time on their personal requirements are the ones who are acting selfish but I wouldn't say that myself, because I understand that you want what you want. I understand why  you want it. I can empathize with wanting something that isn't likely to happen.

 

All the same, those asking for the game to be changed, in spite of the continual and constant community backlash against it would likely do better not trying to make this a personal issue by calling others selfish. Something that could ruin my experience is something that would ruin my experience. I think of it like smoking. I don't like to breathe in other's smoke and so I prefer places that don't allow smoking.   Some people may really want to smoke. They may not even believe their habit is something that should bother someone else and they may be angry that smoking around people who don't like it is the problem of the people who don't like it. But is one side really being selfish or do people simply want what is best for them?

 

This isn't about one side being selfish. It's about one side that can't understand why something bothers the other side.  And you know you don't have to understand. Enough people have had experiences like mine that this isn't just about "my feels". It's about our experience in the game.

[Vayne.8563]

2 minutes ago, Rukia.4802 said:

tl;dr bro lol

You want the game to be changed, I want it to remain the same. You're asking for developers to spend time on what you want, in spite of that fact that a percentage of the community feels this would affect their enjoyment of the game. Seems to me, the word selfish shouldn't be so blithely thrown around, though I wouldn't choose to use it myself.  It's not "my" feels. It's "our" feels. It's not just me that has an issue with this, so maybe there's something to it. Two groups want different things, and that's okay.

[Danikat.8537]

So we've now reached a point where apparently the problem with the exisiting options or any proposed compromise is that if you have to go anywhere or do anything to start a duel it's not worth the trouble and now the people who want it can't even be bothered to discuss the idea.

 

I've got to say this isn't really building a convincing case that it's something anyone wants in the game.

[Vayne.8563]

1 minute ago, Rukia.4802 said:

Tell me how people dueling would ruin your experience, in every MMO I've seen it in there is an option to turn the requests off so. Is it spell effects? Well, that happens already. Is it the fact that people are having fun that ruins your enjoyment? Without writing a novel, tell me what the actual problem is. FYI I don't care about duels but I'm not against them because I'm not a scumbag that wants to gate other peoples fun. I spend most my time in spvp and have maybe a few times even used the duel arena.

 

Seems to me its just another anti-mount scenario where people FEEL like something doesn't belong in the game, yet it would probably improve if it did, like mounts. And that goes for any other minigame like archeology and fishing which GW lacks. People are against it.. to be against it. It IS about your feels, duels wouldn't ruin your game experience LoL kekerino bruh.

I've already said it again and again.  People who want to duel whether you have requests on or off are people who will follow you around and annoy you and talk about you in map chat endlessly. It's not fun and I don't enjoy it. And it's happened in at least a couple of games that allow dueling, and I'm not the only one who experienced it. Dueling encourages that kind of behavior, or people who like dueling are more likely to behave in that sort of behavior. In my book that's enough to not want it. Yes it affects my enjoyment of the game.

[Vayne.8563]

Just now, Rukia.4802 said:

So.. pvpers/duelers are toxic stalkers? Got it.

You're basically just saying you are a sensitive snowflake and you need safe space, like pvp is some evil entity out to get you. I understand now

Thank you for proving my point.  I prefer PvP to be completely separate from PvE.  That's how it is now. It's you who want the game to be changed.

[Vayne.8563]

15 minutes ago, Rukia.4802 said:

Thank you for proving my point. I prefer snowflakes to be completely separate from me. That's how it is now. It's you who wants the game to be changed.

 

You started this war, plunged skyrim into chaos, and now the empire is going to put you down!

Okay this made me laugh. lol

[Rukia.4802]

42 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Okay this made me laugh. lol

You still never explained how raids ruin your game experience 🤪

 

They must, right? Otherwise why would you be against them..

[kharmin.7683]

19 minutes ago, Rukia.4802 said:

You still never explained how raids ruin your game experience 🤪

 

They must, right? Otherwise why would you be against them..

Raids ruin my game experience because they were never originally intended to be included in GW2.  Now that they are, there are precious development resources being applied to them which, in my opinion, would better be spent elsewhere which would help to enhance my game experience. 

[Rukia.4802]

5 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Raids ruin my game experience because they were never originally intended to be included in GW2.  Now that they are, there are precious development resources being applied to them which, in my opinion, would better be spent elsewhere which would help to enhance my game experience. 

Kek. You know they actually had to hire raid developers, right? You clearly have no idea how game design (or anything work related) works.

 

Steve the janitor does not do the same job as Fred in accounting.

[kharmin.7683]

4 minutes ago, Rukia.4802 said:

Kek. You know they actually had to hire raid developers, right? You clearly have no idea how game design (or anything work related) works.

 

Steve the janitor does not do the same job as Fred in accounting.

You know this how?

 

But even if I accept your premise, then it further supports my point.  The money used to hire raid developers could have been used instead for other areas of the game.

 

Oh, and for your edification, when you are discussing counter points of view, insulting one's opponent is a sign of a very weak argument.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Rukia.4802 said:

tl;dr bro lol

"I can't be bothered to read the other side's arguments, but will still call them selfish."

Classy.

 

41 minutes ago, Rukia.4802 said:

You still never explained how raids ruin your game experience 🤪

From what i see you're here for at least 3 years. In that time there were a ton of threads on that very subject you could have read on. But since you seem to have problems with reading longer posts, the short version is:

 

1. it diverted the resources from other things (that's the minor issue, though)

2. it wasn't just a case of adding one more content. Raids, when they got added, changed the direction of overall development and impacted the whole nature of the game, which could be felt in many, many places (not just limited to skill/class balance, but much wider).

17 minutes ago, Rukia.4802 said:

Kek. You know they actually had to hire raid developers, right? You clearly have no idea how game design (or anything work related) works.

 

Steve the janitor does not do the same job as Fred in accounting.

If you think that resources for hiring developers are infinite, you really should not lecture others about having no idea how game design (or anything work related) works.

Edited June 13, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[kharmin.7683]

2 minutes ago, Rukia.4802 said:

Cool story bro, and I know this because ANet literally posted that they were hiring for raid developers. You really think they designed amazing raids with people that have 0 experience in them? Top kekerino my family. You're just jealous because I'm beautiful and smart. You should level up your speechcraft and pump those intelligence points. Your current build isn't doing you any favors my guy. 

That still doesn't counter my point that I find raids detract from my game experience because I would rather Anet spend resources elsewhere.  I really don't understand what you're getting at with the continuing insults to me and other posters in this thread.

[kharmin.7683]

3 minutes ago, Rukia.4802 said:

Allow me to explain... 

 

Raids

Do

Not

Detract

From

Any

Other

Content

In

The

Game

 

Let me know if I need to make it more clear for you 😭

 

Also you should learn the definition of detract. Kek xD or better yet, tell me how they do.

Ok, so now you're just being disingenuous for whatever reason.  I never said that raids detract from other content.  Please, if you're going to argue with me then at least stop making things up.

 

I said that raids have detracted from my game experience because the resources put into them could have been better spent in other aspects of the game.

 

You know what?  Never mind.  You win because I prefer not to waste my time and energy trying to have a meaningful discussion with you.

[Tukaram.8256]

On 6/8/2021 at 2:45 AM, Kurrilino.2706 said:

I am pretty sure people oppose it because they don't want anything PvP related in their PvE mode.

Why do you try to push so hard for a mode that is despised by 99% of the game population is far beyond me.

 

 

Yeah, pretty much that.  The PvP types are just never satisfied...

As for mounts - I wanted them since Day 1, and have never bought a mount skin. Actually my biggest gripe with GW was no mounts, I was very unhappy to see the no mount idea carry over into GW2. (no, I am not new ha ha)   😎