Why nerf a spec that does not exist in PVE?

[Thornwolf.9721]

37 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

if u want a thoery on it.

 

I think its just the Flaw of Elite speccs.. when we look at Elite speccs.. they utilise the Core with added Mechanics.... which means.. Everything adding to core by default Adds to the Elite, so without completely deviding the choices by giving each Elite its Own Trait lines to choose from. you cant cut it off.. the closer the Elites are to the core in what they do... the Worse this problem seems to be

 

for example Core Ranger and Druid are still utilised if u look at necromancer lots still use Core Necro and Reaper If u look at guardian Core guard, DH and Firebrand are all utilised.. however for Elementalist it seems Everyone mainly runs weaver basically.

Well Im in the camp where I'd prefer completely new classes over Specs; Because this is the issue specs create. Invalidating aspects of your class making it neigh impossible in some areas to play the class you love, the way you like. THAT is bad game design. A new class can at least be toned and buffed/nerfed based on its overall performance.

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Well Im in the camp where I'd prefer completely new classes over Specs; Because this is the issue specs create. Invalidating aspects of your class making it neigh impossible in some areas to play the class you love, the way you like. THAT is bad game design. A new class can at least be toned and buffed/nerfed based on its overall performance.

 

i feel they both have their Pros and Cons.

 

This gives everyone something new.. where a New class doesnt.. New classes are only Good for the audience who like that specific class. it'd of likely done better as Sub classes.. so we didnt see so many Nerfs affecting things it shouldnt.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Thornwolf.9721]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

i feel they both have their Pros and Cons.

 

This gives everyone something new.. where a New class doesnt.. New classes are only Good for the audience who like that specific class. it'd of likely done better as Sub classes.. so we didnt see so many Nerfs affecting things it shouldnt.

Granted but we all know A-net loves cutting corners. At least when it comes to gameplay and class stuff~

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Thornwolf.9721 said:

Granted but we all know A-net loves cutting corners. At least when it comes to gameplay and class stuff~

im a 15 year WoW veteran xD so not all that aware of Anets tendencies tbh xD

[Thornwolf.9721]

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

im a 15 year WoW veteran xD so not all that aware of Anets tendencies tbh xD

To summarize as I've been here since the game launched and watched them gut, resell and even completely dumpster specs/classes for years at a time? They will just murder a spec rather than fix it. Or leave a class in a horrible state because it was once strong; They have favorite classes of which you can tell they play and then there are classes you can tell they never touch. Some specs on classes are left wanting, if hardly functional.

The game is good they just go with the safest, and often most boring options for E-specs (some are super cool and some are super lame.) And core classes are only allowed to shine at specific times for specific classes; In all honesty the game suffers much from the same bloat they claimed they wanted to get away from in the original game.

[Puck.3697]

16 minutes ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

To summarize as I've been here since the game launched and watched them gut, resell and even completely dumpster specs/classes for years at a time? They will just murder a spec rather than fix it. Or leave a class in a horrible state because it was once strong; They have favorite classes of which you can tell they play and then there are classes you can tell they never touch. Some specs on classes are left wanting, if hardly functional.

The game is good they just go with the safest, and often most boring options for E-specs (some are super cool and some are super lame.) And core classes are only allowed to shine at specific times for specific classes; In all honesty the game suffers much from the same bloat they claimed they wanted to get away from in the original game.

 

Kinda WoW problems then.

 

WoW oftenly.. left entire speccs unplayable for entire Expansions... it'd just be loading the same Specc again and again as the top performer.. while the other speccs Sat miles behind.

[Thornwolf.9721]

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Kinda WoW problems then.

 

WoW oftenly.. left entire speccs unplayable for entire Expansions... it'd just be loading the same Specc again and again as the top performer.. while the other speccs Sat miles behind.

Essentially. Id say with blizz at least, it was only expansions.... sometimes A-net will leave pieces of a class in the bin for years upon years. And other times it just gets gutted to be turned into an elite spec.

[biofrog.1568]

I've made it easy on myself.  Over 10k hours and stopped playing alts, just ele main at this point.  Now I've managed to cut out fractals and raids by playing an unwanted class, so with this change I can cut out WvW and PvP too.  That just leaves story and world events, where I can stand around and press 1.  Pretty soon I can cut out GW2.

 

[Euclid.2517]

9 hours ago, Razor.6392 said:

"Quality of life" flatout nerfs ele.

 

I was using this in open world pve where things die fairly quickly, now it's kinda useless lol. What the hell is anet thinking? How can they be so kittening awful at this?

If they want "quality of life" for ele, they should change the "lesser glyph of elemental" so that it would not die when you "mount".😅 Countless amount of people have said that already.

[Euclid.2517]

7 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

Because everyones talking about its 42k DPS bench lol.. thats the highest bench on current offer. Which will create a Lure to new platyers starting Elementalist, dying a 1000 Times never learning its rotation.. and then never raiding/Fractals because they feel too bad to go further.

 

Same with every other case of this in every MMORPG, they Nerf something based on Raw numbers.. Because players Latch onto Raw numbers.

 

it dont matter if that 42k bench is Valid, it doesnt matter if its recognised to Be invalid. the point is. People read Numbers and FoTM Roll based on a Number.. it being a valid number doesnt realistically matter to this example.

 

As i said, i suspect, we'll see the new EoD Elite be Simplified and the lower Weaver is when the new elite releases.. the Easier it is to replace Weaver effectively. they're not gonna Rebuild a Elite Specc While also developing a Expansion, it requires too muc hattention for them to afford to hand out effectively.

 

they're not Nerfing based on SC. they're Nerfing based on Player reaction realistically, and players saying CONDI WEAVER SOO STRONG 42k DPS PARSE!!!!!! is enough to strike something... even teapot when Talking about the changes Says Condi Weaver is Super good and Super bursty so it needed its numbers reduced alittle abit.

 

When u have People out there saying this.. it drives Nerfs.

 

imho, FB and Scourge also dont get nerfed, because they carry Raids/Fractals.. it makes the game Easier.. and i think anet want it to work this way, it makes content Easier to access by players effectively. higher Play rates means more potiental income effectively.

No one was talking about 42K condi weaver. Because Rev had 43.9k benchmark WITH ALLIES due to how razorclaw works. (not anymore now. since they nerf rev too) Everyone was talking about rev.

 

That 42K condi weaver was always there, even before the primordial stance nerf. But it is Dagger, a fairly hard to use weapon since you will miss boons/dash into unintended zone with high chance and therefore missing hits/die. It is not a really realistic weapon for most of people here.

 

[Euclid.2517]

8 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

I dont by a long shot. why would they go to SC For Data they already have?.. what SC says they have internal Systems already saying.

 

They did do balance based on SC. 42k dagger weaver had been there for almost 2 years already on youtube. But it was not on SC, so it did not get nerfed.

[Euclid.2517]

7 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Well the problem is even if you nerf off benchmarks, CFB with 8 pages does the same or more damage unless you're solo or in competitive modes. This change doesn't make sense to me since if the burst was an issue (it really shouldn't be unless you mean PVP fire weavers running the signet) then simply halving the stacks and doubling duration would keep the effective damage the same.

The ashes of the just damage attribution in this patch may have something to do with it, but as far as I know all benchmarks have nobody else casting anything even if it is tested with "group". CFB could easily be cut 10% and it would still be played because aegis and tomes without slotting utilities is just that strong.

They did do balance based on SC. 42k dagger weaver had been there for almost 2 years already on youtube. But it was not on SC, so it had never been nerfed. 

 

Condi FB 8 pages benchmark not listed on SC. So Anet doesn't know.

 

That dagger benchmark is listed on SC now, so Anet knows now and decide to nerf.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Euclid.2517

[Euclid.2517]

7 hours ago, Thornwolf.9721 said:

You take the time to clarify that everyone is playing FB and Scourge but call out rev when its really just Renegade. Don't lump those things in with the rest of the revenant playerbase, not all of us like it. And the nerfs keep hitting core and herald because people aren't clarifying that renegade is the culprit. 

At least I have faith that Anet knows I am talking about condi renegade..... Or maybe I should not? Because it is Anet

[Euclid.2517]

8 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

they're not Nerfing based on SC. they're Nerfing based on Player reaction realistically, and players saying CONDI WEAVER SOO STRONG 42k DPS PARSE!!!!!! is enough to strike something... even teapot when Talking about the changes Says Condi Weaver is Super good and Super bursty so it needed its numbers reduced alittle abit.

 

When u have People out there saying this.. it drives Nerfs.

 

https://youtu.be/5-BiK7uyKrA

"Super good????????????"

Teapot never says so. Did you make this whole thing up?

 

He said even if condi weaver goes up to "50k" benchmark, it still is valid and not overpowered, since it is dps only spec, no range, no support, all about damage, most squishy class.

 

And 42k Dagger has been there FOR TWO YEARS. Have people said anything??

 

Stop making up things that is non-existent.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Euclid.2517

[Thornwolf.9721]

18 minutes ago, Euclid.2517 said:

At least I have faith that Anet knows I am talking about condi renegade..... Or maybe I should not? Because it is Anet

No you really should not.

[Infusion.7149]

23 minutes ago, Euclid.2517 said:

They did do balance based on SC. 42k dagger weaver had been there for almost 2 years already on youtube. But it was not on SC, so it had never been nerfed. 

 

Condi FB 8 pages benchmark not listed on SC. So Anet doesn't know.

 

That dagger benchmark is listed on SC now, so Anet knows now and decide to nerf.

 

[LN] is Arenanet partner as well.

[Euclid.2517]

4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

[LN] is Arenanet partner as well.

Yeah but LN also never listed dagger benchmark until recently. It was first listed at youtube by Crone, then Ryan from dP more recently.

 

LN/SC only listed it after May 11th update.

 

Oh you talking about firebrand 8pages one. Yeah LN is indeed listing it.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Euclid.2517

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

6 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 

i feel they both have their Pros and Cons.

 

This gives everyone something new.. where a New class doesnt.. New classes are only Good for the audience who like that specific class. it'd of likely done better as Sub classes.. so we didnt see so many Nerfs affecting things it shouldnt.

Now now guys, that would REQUIRE W O R K, we don't do that here!
Though it would be nice if we had something like "Mage" which would have then subclasses called "Elementalist, Tempest, Weaver" with it's own traitlines and available weapons to them. Mage would have "basic" skills and access to Staff, Scepter and Focus as per protocol, Elementalist would gain additional access to Daggers, etc. Mage would be based on Arcane, Signets, Catnips skills (pure force/manatype skills), Elementalist(Glyphs+mage) would be elementalist, Tempest(Shouts+mage) would become something that only uses storm magic(blizzard, tornados and other whirly stuffs based skills) and Weaver(Stances+mage) would bring completely new Elements by mixing existing ones.
In reality we've got some ripoffs at most lmao.
The potential of this game was limitless with how they could have handled so many different things, but they went super easy route.

[cat.8975]

Seeing these comments before reading the patch notes made me think there were multiple significant nerfs, but it was just a 16.67% reduction to fire signet? All of these complaints over a ~600 dps nerf to the build benching 42.1k. Incredible.

[Euclid.2517]

23 minutes ago, cat.8975 said:

Seeing these comments before reading the patch notes made me think there were multiple significant nerfs, but it was just a 16.67% reduction to fire signet? All of these complaints over a ~600 dps nerf to the build benching 42.1k. Incredible.

It is 20% reduction.

Also it affects condi tempest, and sword variant of weaver too. It is not all about dagger.

 

Also dagger has been there for 2 years at least. Why nerf now.

 

I have no issue of nerfing elementalist if they nerf Ashes of the just too.

 

Also if you think some of my statements are not correct, you can point out. But you just being sarcastic about the complaint, without pointing which statement is not correct.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Euclid.2517

[Extacy.6192]

20 minutes ago, cat.8975 said:

Seeing these comments before reading the patch notes made me think there were multiple significant nerfs, but it was just a 16.67% reduction to fire signet? All of these complaints over a ~600 dps nerf to the build benching 42.1k. Incredible.

 

Besides the overall 20% dmg nerf, it lost its burst potential. This affects pve (burst / invul phases) and especially pvp and wvw roaming. Therefor the overall nerf is much higher than 20%. So you are wrong on this one.

[cat.8975]

They already nerfed AotJ with the ICD change, bringing cfb rampup more in line with every other condi build. The 40k bench video is also a bit of a meme, as it's using 8 page and RF at the end to boost the final number a tiny bit. Without that RF cast, the sustained is closer to ~38-39k. The 40k bench is definitely a good example of someone doing a "golem speedrun" instead of a more generalized dps benchmark. We've seen this all the time in the past with ele, which probably played a part in it seeing so many nerfs.

14 minutes ago, Euclid.2517 said:

It is 20% reduction.

 

> Signet of Fire: The number of applied burning stacks on activation has been reduced from 4 to 2, and the duration of applied burning has been increased from 6 seconds to 10 seconds in all game modes.
4*6 = 24
2*10 = 20
20/24 = 5/6
A reduction of 16.6667%.

Edited June 9, 2021 by cat.8975

[cat.8975]

1 minute ago, Extacy.6192 said:

Besides the overall 20% dmg nerf, it lost its burst potential. This affects pve (burst / invul phases) and especially pvp and wvw roaming. Therefor the overall nerf is much higher than 20%. So you are wrong on this one.

What if that was their overall goal here, though? They've done the exact same thing to a ton of other skills in the last year or two, due to condi burst being so hard to deal with in those gamemodes. Sure, the 17% lost in PvE sucks a little, but it's not so significant as to make the build nonviable.

[Euclid.2517]

4 minutes ago, cat.8975 said:

They already nerfed AotJ with the ICD change, bringing cfb rampup more in line with every other condi build. The 40k bench video is also a bit of a meme, as it's using 8 page and RF at the end to boost the final number a tiny bit. Without that RF cast, the sustained is closer to ~38-39k. The 40k bench is definitely a good example of someone doing a "golem speedrun" instead of a more generalized dps benchmark. We've seen this all the time in the past with ele, which probably played a part in it seeing so many nerfs.

> Signet of Fire: The number of applied burning stacks on activation has been reduced from 4 to 2, and the duration of applied burning has been increased from 6 seconds to 10 seconds in all game modes.
4*6 = 24
2*10 = 20
20/24 = 5/6
A reduction of 16.6667%.

 

Yes you are right about math. Sorry about that.

 

But still, when I use condi FB, it easily defeat condi weaver in fractal with ez 100k phase 1 at 99cm phase 1. It is still super strong.

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Euclid.2517

[cat.8975]

1 minute ago, Euclid.2517 said:

But still, when I use condi FB, it easily defeat condi weaver in fractal with ez 100k phase 1 at 99cm phase 1. It is still super strong.

That's more of an issue with how the mistlock singularity interacts with unique class buffs. Ask them to nerf that, not the class as a whole.