GW2 Taco overlay for Halloween Clock Tower?

[Nutshel.7264]

@onevstheworld.2419 said:Stop hyperventilating everyone. Anet have said that Taco doesn't break any of thier rules.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/66m13h/anet_this_really_should_be_part_of_the_game/dgjyrji/

Ok so they are hypocrites - it does break ToS but they say it doesn't so either their wording in ToS is wrong, person giving it "ok" is wrong or company is hypocritical and their rules mean nothing.

[gert.7698]

@Nutshel.7264 said:This is so against ToS I can't wrap my head around how you didn't get banned for this already. Anets hypocrisy strikes again.

By definition any 3rd party software that gives players advantage is against ToS - this does give advantage - if it didn't nobody would use it so yeah the only reason why it is "safe" as said above is because anet has limited ability to detect it or they just don't care. But they should be relentless in banning these that get caught and I sincerely hope you do.

That is not true. As a matter of fact, on the official Facebook page of guild wars they promote / post YouTube video’s that explain hoe to use taco. They did with SAB hard mode etc...

[onevstheworld.2419]

@Nutshel.7264 said:their wording in ToS is wrongThe Taco dev specifically mentions following Anet's published rules to create the program... if those were wrong, or if he misinterpreted them, Anet wouldn't have OK'd it.

person giving it "ok" is wrongSure, Chris Cleary is merely GW2's game security team lead... can't be someone important in this issue, can he?

company is hypocritical and their rules mean nothing.Where are you seeing these rules? This is the page that outlines the rules for GW2, as far as I can see, Taco doesn't nothing against those. Anyway, it's their game, so they are free to create/modify the rules (subject to local laws, of course). In the original incarnation of the game, APIs did not exist, so effectively all 3rd party add-ons needed to do illegal things to extract game data. Since Anet has released their official APIs for the community to use, the situation is different.

I think it's a good thing that they publicly approve specific apps... it removes a great deal of confusion compared to their past stance of saying nothing. Obviously, if a future version of Taco does break the rules, Anet will act accordingly (No comment on the politics of the situation, just pointing out that Anet WILL act on apps they see as non-compliant)

[Mewcifer.5198]

Omg wow. Yes, I use a tool because it helps me. The same way I use Dulfy because it helps me.I also use a timer on my phone to time mechanics in the game, because it helps me. If I could program an overlay that would make the timer appear on my screen instead of my phone so I am not constantly checking back and forth, I would use that too.Because something being helpful and increasing QoL is not the same as "advantage over other players".

Players are not more powerful than others players while using TaCO.It doesn't do things like... let you see enemy players through walls in PvP. Or jump the humping puzzles for you.The only 'advantage' is convenience and a small amount of time not wasted by having to alt tab back and forth, which is nearly the same as if the person was using a second monitor.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

@Mewcifer.5198 said:Omg wow. Yes, I use a tool because it helps me. The same way I use Dulfy because it helps me.I also use a timer on my phone to time mechanics in the game, because it helps me. If I could program an overlay that would make the timer appear on my screen instead of my phone so I am not constantly checking back and forth, I would use that too.Because something being helpful and increasing QoL is not the same as "advantage over other players".

Players are not more powerful than others players while using TaCO.It doesn't do things like... let you see enemy players through walls in PvP. Or jump the humping puzzles for you.The only 'advantage' is convenience and a small amount of time not wasted by having to alt tab back and forth, which is nearly the same as if the person was using a second monitor.

Also reminding me of people wanting mounts banned from core Tyria.Even though it's not "AGAINST THE ToS! BOO.... I MEAN FOO!!", it's just an added helpful tool that people want to use. The difference here is mounts you have to pay for... this tool you don't so... I'm not seeing the argument against it.

Yeah if let's say I was interested in like inquisition to the point of actually playing it and not literally /sleep ing through the whole thing just to get the halloween dailies out of the way as I don't find the thing interesting... and people could've spotted me with this tool without having to actually find me in the labyrinth the right way, then I would be sooo against that. That doesn't sound right at all.

[Nutshel.7264]

@onevstheworld.2419 GUILD WARS 2 USER AGREEMENT chapter 8. Yes taco uses provided api to gather information but then it uses graphics hooks to change/affect what is displayed ingame and therefore changes game operations/mods displayed information - points c,d,e,i are all violated to some degree.

Taco dev can say w/e he wants. I have not seen anywhere rules that specific what is excluded from prohibited software/functionality mentioned in the ToS. If there is such document it is missing from the link you have provided therefor it is not legit/official.

Chris Cleary can say w/e he wants unless it is done so in offical communication channels(which as far as I am aware reddit is not) it holds little to no power. Especially if it contradicts the ToS on games official web page.

Lastly yes anet got right to change rules withing law as they see fit. But for that to matter they have to do so in clear and transparent way. Lets say Chris was actually talking on behave of anet - why was that change in rules not made officially public on gw2 web page, forums and ToS? As far as end user is concerned the only thing that is legally binding have to be included in the ToS which w/e he said is not. So yeah if they ban some 3rd party mods/tools and not other even though both are guilty of violating rules as far as ToS is concerned they are hypocrites.

@"Mewcifer.5198"As much as you might like your "QoL" mod and be in denial of it legitimacy or as much as anet devs "let the rule breach slide" doesn't change fact that it is against ToS unless anet updates the rules with allowed ways of interacting with game. Also stop denying that it gives you advantage - it clearly does. Sure it does not automate game, and the information is available in some shape or form for everybody. Having it displayed over your game is the issue, if the data was intended to be visible in such way it would have been implemented in the game, as things stand it is not. And yeah don't compare stand alone utilities such as phone with timer - it does not interfere with game in any way shape or form therefor is totally different and not valid comparison.

@Ayumi Spender.1082 difference between the mod and mounts in tyria is: mounts are official part of game provided by game development company. While the taco mod is developed by 3rd party entity which is in no way connected to the anet.

Obviously I am not going to convince any of you of anything because you've made up your mind and refuse to listen to my reasoning. Therefor it is pointless to argue further. I have said what I had to say. Take it as you will and even if you're not convinced hopefully it will at least make you give the issue second thought.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Nutshel.7264 said:This is so against ToS I can't wrap my head around how you didn't get banned for this already. Anets hypocrisy strikes again.

By definition any 3rd party software that gives players advantage is against ToS - this does give advantage - if it didn't nobody would use it so yeah the only reason why it is "safe" as said above is because anet has limited ability to detect it or they just don't care. But they should be relentless in banning these that get caught and I sincerely hope you do.

Re-read the policy. You've given the "give players advantage" remark too much importance and stretched it past reasonable interpretation. As much as any 3rd party software can be considered 'greenlit', overlays are perfectly fine. They only use information provided from the game itself.

And there are many, many overlays for the game. ANet's familiar with them and if they considered them inappropriate, they would have contacted the developers and closed all forum threads on the topic(s); they've done neither.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

@Nutshel.7264 said:@onevstheworld.2419 GUILD WARS 2 USER AGREEMENT chapter 8. Yes taco uses provided api to gather information but then it uses graphics hooks to change/affect what is displayed ingame and therefore changes game operations/mods displayed information - points c,d,e,i are all violated to some degree.

Taco dev can say w/e he wants. I have not seen anywhere rules that specific what is excluded from prohibited software/functionality mentioned in the ToS. If there is such document it is missing from the link you have provided therefor it is not legit/official.

Chris Cleary can say w/e he wants unless it is done so in offical communication channels(which as far as I am aware reddit is not) it holds little to no power. Especially if it contradicts the ToS on games official web page.

Lastly yes anet got right to change rules withing law as they see fit. But for that to matter they have to do so in clear and transparent way. Lets say Chris was actually talking on behave of anet - why was that change in rules not made officially public on gw2 web page, forums and ToS? As far as end user is concerned the only thing that is legally binding have to be included in the ToS which w/e he said is not. So yeah if they ban some 3rd party mods/tools and not other even though both are guilty of violating rules as far as ToS is concerned they are hypocrites.

@"Mewcifer.5198"As much as you might like your "QoL" mod and be in denial of it legitimacy or as much as anet devs "let the rule breach slide" doesn't change fact that it is against ToS unless anet updates the rules with allowed ways of interacting with game. Also stop denying that it gives you advantage - it clearly does. Sure it does not automate game, and the information is available in some shape or form for everybody. Having it displayed over your game is the issue, if the data was intended to be visible in such way it would have been implemented in the game, as things stand it is not. And yeah don't compare stand alone utilities such as phone with timer - it does not interfere with game in any way shape or form therefor is totally different and not valid comparison.

@Ayumi Spender.1082 difference between the mod and mounts in tyria is: mounts are official part of game provided by game development company. While the taco mod is developed by 3rd party entity which is in no way connected to the anet.

Obviously I am not going to convince any of you of anything because you've made up your mind and refuse to listen to my reasoning. Therefor it is pointless to argue further. I have said what I had to say. Take it as you will and even if you're not convinced hopefully it will at least make you give the issue second thought.

Seriously hasn't if Arenanet say it's perfectly fine.Same when a company say you can mod their games like Bethesda and have no problem with it.As long as something is okay, I'm all for it. I don't like the whole DPS meter but I won't complain about it when Arenanet sees nothing wrong with it.

[Mewcifer.5198]

TaCo does not make me better at playing the game. It only makes it easier to know things about the game.Things that I would already know by looking at a guide. Only it saves me some time of tabbing out.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Mewcifer.5198 said:TaCo does not make me better at playing the game. It only makes it easier to know things about the game.Things that I would already know by looking at a guide. Only it saves me some time of tabbing out.

That's a good way to phrase the value of TACO and other overlays.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Shard.4791 said:Funny that you asked. I can share the poidata text that's shown on the video below.

Nice cheating there. Tsk tsk tsk.

[Shard.4791]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Shard.4791 said:Funny that you asked. I can share the poidata text that's shown on the video below.

Nice cheating there. Tsk tsk tsk.

Oh noes. Just waiting for the ban hammer apparently.

[onevstheworld.2419]

@Nutshel.7264 said:@"onevstheworld.2419" GUILD WARS 2 USER AGREEMENT chapter 8. Yes taco uses provided api to gather information but then it uses graphics hooks to change/affect what is displayed ingame and therefore changes game operations/mods displayed information - points c,d,e,i are all violated to some degree.

Taco dev can say w/e he wants. I have not seen anywhere rules that specific what is excluded from prohibited software/functionality mentioned in the ToS. If there is such document it is missing from the link you have provided therefor it is not legit/official.

Chris Cleary can say w/e he wants unless it is done so in offical communication channels(which as far as I am aware reddit is not) it holds little to no power. Especially if it contradicts the ToS on games official web page.

Lastly yes anet got right to change rules withing law as they see fit. But for that to matter they have to do so in clear and transparent way. Lets say Chris was actually talking on behave of anet - why was that change in rules not made officially public on gw2 web page, forums and ToS? As far as end user is concerned the only thing that is legally binding have to be included in the ToS which w/e he said is not. So yeah if they ban some 3rd party mods/tools and not other even though both are guilty of violating rules as far as ToS is concerned they are hypocrites.

I don't see why we're still arguing this. The guy who interprets the rules AND does the banning has said this is OK. The fact he continues to do what he does is Anet implicitly stating they agree with him. It may not be your interpretation of the rules, but you're not the final judge in these matters.

And what makes Reddit not official? Anet makes announcements there, they hold AMA's there, they advertise on this forum and the official website when they hold any events there, the game director, PR, programmers, artists have all posted there in official capacities. That little Anet logo these guys get aren't given out to randoms. I get a feeling you want Anet to make all their communications via modes they directly control/own: the official website or these forums... unfortunately that line of argument invalidates Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Twitch, and even e-mail as so-called "official" channels. TLDR: It's the messege not the messenger: An official communication can get to you on the back of a napkin as long as it has the official sanction of Anet.

With these discussions, we should all remember that Anet has never endorsed any of these apps... they are OK to use but always "at your own risk"... i.e. if it screws up your game/PC/family relations, Anet do not want to get involved. In it's current iteration, Taco is fine, but there many be a change in the programming or a change in Anet's policies in the future that make it not fine.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

@onevstheworld.2419 said:

@Nutshel.7264 said:@"onevstheworld.2419" GUILD WARS 2 USER AGREEMENT chapter 8. Yes taco uses provided api to gather information but then it uses graphics hooks to change/affect what is displayed ingame and therefore changes game operations/mods displayed information - points c,d,e,i are all violated to some degree.

Taco dev can say w/e he wants. I have not seen anywhere rules that specific what is excluded from prohibited software/functionality mentioned in the ToS. If there is such document it is missing from the link you have provided therefor it is not legit/official.

Chris Cleary can say w/e he wants unless it is done so in offical communication channels(which as far as I am aware reddit is not) it holds little to no power. Especially if it contradicts the ToS on games official web page.

Lastly yes anet got right to change rules withing law as they see fit. But for that to matter they have to do so in clear and transparent way. Lets say Chris was actually talking on behave of anet - why was that change in rules not made officially public on gw2 web page, forums and ToS? As far as end user is concerned the only thing that is legally binding have to be included in the ToS which w/e he said is not. So yeah if they ban some 3rd party mods/tools and not other even though both are guilty of violating rules as far as ToS is concerned they are hypocrites.

I don't see why we're still arguing this.

The guy who interprets the rules AND does the banning has said this is OK.

The fact he continues to do what he does is Anet implicitly stating they agree with him. It may not be

your

interpretation of the rules, but you're not the final judge in these matters.

And what makes Reddit not official? Anet makes announcements there, they hold AMA's there, they advertise on this forum and the official website when they hold any events there, the game director, PR, programmers, artists have all posted there in official capacities. That little Anet logo these guys get aren't given out to randoms. I get a feeling you want Anet to make all their communications via modes they directly control/own: the official website or these forums... unfortunately that line of argument invalidates Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Twitch, and even e-mail as so-called "official" channels. TLDR: It's the messege not the messenger: An official communication can get to you on the back of a napkin as long as it has the official sanction of Anet.

With these discussions, we should all remember that Anet has never endorsed any of these apps... they are OK to use but always "at your own risk"... i.e. if it screws up your game/PC/family relations, Anet do not want to get involved. In it's current iteration, Taco is fine, but there many be a change in the programming or a change in Anet's policies in the future that make it not fine.

arcsdps killed my neighbor's dog once, but they knew the risks and still continued to play anyway. Arenanet couldn't pay for the funeral costs of course, but that's the risk that they took.

[Ashen.2907]

I was under the impression that an overlay was something displayed onscreen simultaneously with the game, not something displayed in the game itself. So an overlay is like an image projected between the player and the game. It may display information about the game as it is being played but is not actually in the game, nor is it modifying the game, it is merely an information layer.

Functionally an overlay is not significantly different than an old fashioned overhead projector projecting an image at my computer screen while the game is being played.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Nutshel.7264 said:Because it is the same kind of issue. Except dps meters in their pure forms were in gray zone instead of bluntly against ToS like this.

Quite the opposite. Taco doesn't break any rules because it doesn't make any actions for you, all the informations in it are gained either from other players, or from official Anet APIs, and it doesn't read/modify game memory. As such, it's in the gray area at worst (and completely compliant at best). DPS meters on the other hand were (and still are) depending on data extracted from game memory, and as such they were breaking one of the most clear rules for addons Anet made. They are legal now only because Anet made a specific exception from that rule for them - but before that they were in clear violation, nothing gray about that.

Basically, you can't create (with few specific exceptions) addons that: modify input to the game, modify output from the game, and/or give you access to information you shouldn't have. TACO does neither of those. In the end it's just a guide with better UI than others.

@Nutshel.7264 said:@onevstheworld.2419 GUILD WARS 2 USER AGREEMENT chapter 8. Yes taco uses provided api to gather information but then it uses graphics hooks to change/affect what is displayed ingame and therefore changes game operations/mods displayed information - points c,d,e,i are all violated to some degree.

Original version did nothing of that sort. It was just an overlay. From what i understand, the author is now working on a better integration with game UI, but to do that he's been in constant communication with game devs to know what he can and what he cannot do. Yes, that means devs granted TACO an exception from some of those restrictions - just like they originally did to authors of Arcdps and BGDM. And if TACO will ever try to exceed those, that exception will be withdrawn, like it was in the case of BGDM.

TL/DR: It's okay. For now, at least.

[Yargesh.4965]

@Shard.4791 said:Here are the markers as promised: https://pastebin.com/Z0m6aKtf

Installation

1. Download the text and add .xml to the end of the filename OR copy the text and make a file named Festival_Halloween_MadKingsClockTower.xml in notepad
2. Place the downloaded/created .xml file to gw2tacofolder/POIs folder where there's lots of other xml files too

Use

1. Run taco (I don't know if it needs to be restarted if it was on already when the pois were added)
2. Tactical display needs to be on (1st option in taco's dropdown menu or 4th if it's on already)
3. If you don't want to see the markers anymore filter them through tacos UI in Filter Displayed Tactical Markers->Festivals->Halloween->Mad King's Clock Tower

Continuing updating the markers is on the table and I'm not satisfied with them completely but Here they are. When I'm satisfied with them I might try to get them to be included in gw2taco's releases.

Have fun jumping! (cackling)

Thanks for this.

[Nutshel.7264]

@onevstheworld.2419 said:And what makes Reddit not official? Anet makes announcements there, they hold AMA's there, they advertise on this forum and the official website when they hold any events there, the game director, PR, programmers, artists have all posted there in official capacities. That little Anet logo these guys get aren't given out to randoms. I get a feeling you want Anet to make all their communications via modes they directly control/own: the official website or these forums... unfortunately that line of argument invalidates Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Twitch, and even e-mail as so-called "official" channels. TLDR: It's the messege not the messenger: An official communication can get to you on the back of a napkin as long as it has the official sanction of Anet.

Using third party websites is ok as long as it is communicated on the official game site. So if they hold some steam twitch event and say so on the forums/web site it makes that stream official. AMAs are just Q&A if held on some 3rd party site they are just that Q&A with people that are confirmed, to some degree, to be whom they claim to be. The whole point of official websites/forums are to keep all the official information there - sure you can reference outside places/sites but unless it's been done all info on 3rd party sites are unofficial. Onus is on anet to keep all essential information and rules on their website or with referenced links, not on user to look around internet on some 3rd party not related forums for the information or rule changes.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Nutshel.7264 said:

@onevstheworld.2419 said:And what makes Reddit not official? Anet makes announcements there, they hold AMA's there, they advertise on this forum and the official website when they hold any events there, the game director, PR, programmers, artists have all posted there in official capacities. That little Anet logo these guys get aren't given out to randoms. I get a feeling you want Anet to make all their communications via modes they directly control/own: the official website or these forums... unfortunately that line of argument invalidates Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Twitch, and even e-mail as so-called "official" channels. TLDR: It's the messege not the messenger: An official communication can get to you on the back of a napkin as long as it has the official sanction of Anet.

Using third party websites is ok as long as it is communicated on the official game site. So if they hold some steam twitch event and say so on the forums/web site it makes that stream official. AMAs are just Q&A if held on some 3rd party site they are just that Q&A with people that are confirmed, to some degree, to be whom they claim to be. The whole point of official websites/forums are to keep all the official information there - sure you can reference outside places/sites but unless it's been done all info on 3rd party sites are unofficial. Onus is on anet to keep all essential information and rules on their website or with referenced links, not on user to look around internet on some 3rd party not related forums for the information or rule changes.

You don't have to do anything other than look at the ToS. Cleary's comments elsewhere are clarifications and answers to specific questions. In real life, all the laws are written down, but it often takes lawyers and judges to clarify how those laws apply in specific situations; this is no different.

Here are the relevant bits:

! You may not modify any part of the Guild Wars 2 client or server software.! You will not attempt to interfere with, hack into, or decipher any transmissions to or from the servers running Guild Wars 2.! You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars 2 and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars 2.! You may not use any third-party program (such as a “bot”) in order to automate gameplay functions, including playing, chatting, interacting, or gathering gold or items within Guild Wars 2. You may not assist, relay, or store gold or items for other players who are using these processes.! [You may not...] Use, or provide others with, any software related to the Game, including any automation software (a.k.a. “bot”) or software designed to change or modify operation of the Game;! [You may not...] Use, or provide others with, any “hack,” “cheat,” “exploit” or “mod”;! [You may not...] Use, obtain or provide data related to operation of the Game, including but not limited to:! software that reads areas of computer memory or storage devices related to the Game;! software that intercepts or otherwise collects data from or through the Game;! software that redirects communications from any Game or Service; or! software not provided by ArenaNet which creates or maintains any communication to the Game or Service, including but not limited to any software that emulates the Game or any part thereof as well as any server that emulates the Service or any part thereof;! You may use our API to create applications or other creative projects so long as you follow our application developer terms and conditions here:! We grant you a non-transferable, non-exclusive, nonsublicenseable, revocable license to access and use the APIs solely to develop one or more applications.! You are not permitted to: modify the APIs; reverse engineer, decompile, decipher, translate, disassemble or otherwise attempt to access source code of the APIs, except and only to the extent that applicable law expressly permits, despite this limitation; publish, rent, lease, lend, sell, sublicense, distribute, transfer, disclose or otherwise provide the APIs to any third party; remove or alter any proprietary notices or labels in the APIs or any portion thereof; use the APIs to infringe the rights of ArenaNet, its affiliates, or any third party, or in any way that does not comply with all applicable laws.

None of that includes the words (or its paraphrase), "give players an advantage," the phrase you started off using to digress this thread. That was a rule-of-thumb clarification from an ANet employee, speaking officially, in various forums, including Reddit.

You are, of course, free to interpret the policy to be as restrictive as possible for your own gameplay, since that will ensure that you won't ever get stuck using once-ok-software-turned-bad. But you do not get to interpret the policy for ANet, nor instruct them on how they are allowed to disseminate it to their players/customers.

I understand that you might not approve of this policy (and I don't think your reasons are arbitrary or capricious). But that doesn't give you the right to tell others that overlays are a form of cheating, because they are not.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Nutshel.7264 said:sure you can reference outside places/sites but unless it's been done all info on 3rd party sites are unofficial.Apparently Anet disagrees with you on that and does make official statements on third-party sites without referencing them on their forums or webpage. You believing those are unofficial doesn't make them so.

@Nutshel.7264 said:Onus is on anet to keep all essential information and rules on their website or with referenced links, not on user to look around internet on some 3rd party not related forums for the information or rule changes.

Yes, Anet is not so good at communicating. It is however a separate issue that has no bearing at all on legality of third party tools.

You have been (repeatedly) explained the current situation with TACO. You just choose to keep ignoring that. This however does not make your own beliefs on how it should work (according to you) any more true.

[Shikigami.4013]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:None of that includes the words (or its paraphrase), "give players an advantage," the phrase you started off using to digress this thread. That was a rule-of-thumb clarification from an ANet employee, speaking officially, in various forums, including Reddit.

Actually it is present right here in the forum in the sticky about third-party programs which was deemed important enough to carry over from the old ones and was written by Gaile Gray herself. It says "[...]Our general policy is that anything that gives advantage is forbidden[..]". So citing this wording should not be anything worthy to be criticised or dismissed as irrelevant.

Disclaimer:This post was not made to state that the usage of TacO will be sanctioned by ArenaNet, but to point out that the "giving an advantage" phrase is a very official stance and through the sticky more easily visible for any user than the ToS which are kind of hidden away and longwinded.

[PaxTheGreatOne.9472]

In my opinion GW2Taco provides info normally found when using api keys directly to an overlay on your game screen. It doesn't influence the game, if it does it slows it a little. I rarely use it if t all, but if I do if find it a usefull add on to my game. things like locations or daily bosses as an opverlay is no problem. Timers fro Gw2 have existed a long time, p;rotected times for WVW camps, towers and castles same thing. All mapped stuff I generally know by head... This must be readily available info as well.. or at least 100% predictable.

[Nutshel.7264]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Nutshel.7264 said:sure you can reference outside places/sites but unless it's been done all info on 3rd party sites are unofficial.Apparently Anet disagrees with you on that and

does

make official statements on third-party sites without referencing them on their forums or webpage. You believing those are unofficial doesn't make them so.

@Nutshel.7264 said:Onus is on anet to keep all essential information and rules on their website or with referenced links, not on user to look around internet on some 3rd party not related forums for the information or rule changes.

Yes, Anet is not so good at communicating. It is however a separate issue that has no bearing at all on legality of third party tools.

You have been (repeatedly) explained the current situation with TACO. You just choose to keep ignoring that. This however does not make your own beliefs on how it

should

work (according to you) any more true.

1. If they exempt someone or something from a rule or otherwise change a rule without including it on the webpage/forum how is end user supposed to know about it? They may feel like it is enough to say something on reddit but at the end of the day the only things that actually matter are these posted on official web page, forum or directly linked on them - anything else hold no power(at least shouldn't). Bit extreme example: Imagine them changing some random rule and mention it on reddit but fail to communicate it on the official web page/forum, then they ban people for breaking said rule - would you be alright with it? Would the banned people have case in court of law? Now turn this around and assume the change they did was relaxing a rule - why should this be treated or perceived differently? Why would it be ok to omit mentioning that change on the official page/forum? Official web page is there to communicate with community and user base. Anything else is just addition and should not be treated as official information channel.

2. Anets communication skills are bad and are partially responsible for any mess or uncertainty of rules they make and that is related to 3rd tools such as taco

3. The explanation I've got about taco was "devs do their best not to violate rules and communicate what is allowed/or not with anet which supposedly gave it an 'ok' " which is where second part of the topic an hand comes from - even if that is truth it is nowhere officially stated(as far as I can find), but what I can find is rules made by anet that would be violated by said tools - again as far as I can tell by information contained on the official page.

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:...None of that includes the words (or its paraphrase), "give players an advantage," the phrase you started off using to digress this thread. That was a rule-of-thumb clarification from an ANet employee, speaking officially, in various forums, including Reddit.

You are, of course, free to interpret the policy to be as restrictive as possible for your own gameplay, since that will ensure that you won't ever get stuck using once-ok-software-turned-bad. But you do not get to interpret the policy for ANet, nor instruct them on how they are allowed to disseminate it to their players/customers.

I understand that you might not approve of this policy (and I don't think your reasons are arbitrary or capricious). But that doesn't give you the right to tell others that overlays are a form of cheating, because they are not.

As stated by one of posters below your post although indeed that phrase did not make it to the ToS it was used to explain it on the forum which makes it, at least in my eyes, official.

On the other topics: I get to interpret the policy - by accepting a policy which is required to play the game user is bound to interpret it and follow to ones best ability and clarify anything if necessary. I do have right to tell others about it - I am free person and am posting somewhat within forum rules - true nobody have to listen to it.

Bottom line is the same as I stated few posts above: either taco breaks the rules and anet should do something about it or it doesn't in which case anet needs to communicate/update rules accordingly on the official website. As things stand taco is not recognized as allowed 3rd party tool hence discussing it on the forum in maner different than "is it allowed" should be frowned upon by both forum moderators and community alike. The former is obvious the later is less so: it is in every user best interest not to draw attention to that tool.

Now I know I've said this before, but this time I really feel like I've exhausted the topic on my side so I will end my part of discussion. Perhaps I'll find something else I disagree with and start it all over again!