Scourge needs to go

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Here's the thing. Is necro really OP? Or is that classes that could heal and cleanse through AOE conditions circles in team-fights got nerfed so hard that nobody plays them anymore.

 

That's the problem with asking for the deletion of scourge or any spec for that matter. Scourge is probably suppressing some other build somewhere, and once scourge is gone, that something will simply take it's place.

 

The problem is people apply linear thinking to a system that is fundamentally non-linear. Simply "deleting" something doesn't fix the problem...complicated systems are intercorrelated with so many other things, that usually you can't formulate the impact of such a change.

 

Take a very good example...Let's say you DID delete scourge in WvW. Scourge is for all intensive purposes the main counter to Boonballs. Remove scourge and what replaces it will be boonballing, and perhaps unkillable zergs. Because of the application of linear thinking, you simply traded one problem for another.

 

Overall, this is what happened ever since February's doomsday patch. Removing amulet after amulet after amulet...trait after trait after trait and guess what? We still have problems...problems that are arguably worse than what we had before. So again we can ask...will deleting yet another thing actually fix anything or have we learned nothing over the past year and a half?

Edited July 13, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Aeolus.3615]

19 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Here's the thing. Is necro really OP? Or is that classes that could heal and cleanse through AOE conditions circles in team-fights got nerfed so hard that nobody plays them anymore.

 

 

 

The game  balance overall was never sane  to start with....  they should lock trinkets to certain classes until further balance rather than remove then entirelly from the game, the question here is wich classes should be able to sustain themselves that much wich is what implies heal stats and builds....

But does the game really need those ??? i played ventari and i received lots of awfull pm0s from enemies some even stayed inside shooting and pm rage comments they also had a high rank in pvp for what it seamed, i dont think that most spvp players want support build to work.

 

Way to fix support classes should always heal less for themselves and more for others, rev ventari is a good example its a 50%(give or take) diference on cut heal for the ventari player.

 

The skill system in gw2 is a mess to balance, even worse than gw1.... lol

in gw1 there always several metas and counter metas here its gimmick flavour after patch.

Scourge was a awfull concept class to the game, would fit more for a hard boss then a class 😛

 

note:Mesmer in WvW is strong @ removing boons, there was even a minstrell build dedicated for that if i recall and was stronger then necro.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Abyssisis.3971]

the devs are rolling around as nercos, of course they aren’t gonna see nerfs in a timely manner. 😂

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

5 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Here's the thing. Is necro really OP? Or is that classes that could heal and cleanse through AOE conditions circles in team-fights got nerfed so hard that nobody plays them anymore.

 

That's the problem with asking for the deletion of scourge or any spec for that matter. Scourge is probably suppressing some other build somewhere, and once scourge is gone, that something will simply take it's place.

 

The problem is people apply linear thinking to a system that is fundamentally non-linear. Simply "deleting" something doesn't fix the problem...complicated systems are intercorrelated with so many other things, that usually you can't formulate the impact of such a change.

 

Take a very good example...Let's say you DID delete scourge in WvW. Scourge is for all intensive purposes the main counter to Boonballs. Remove scourge and what replaces it will be boonballing, and perhaps unkillable zergs. Because of the application of linear thinking, you simply traded one problem for another.

 

Overall, this is what happened ever since February's doomsday patch. Removing amulet after amulet after amulet...trait after trait after trait and guess what? We still have problems...problems that are arguably worse than what we had before. So again we can ask...will deleting yet another thing actually fix anything or have we learned nothing over the past year and a half?

I think a lot of people have known that anet only does band-aid fixes to balance. Yes, if necro is nerfed something else will take its place. But what is the alternative? Wait until anet decides to put more resources into pvp? Wait for EoD elite specs? There arent any realistic alternatives that are better. Obviously nerfing the immediate problem isnt going to make the game more balanced in the long run, but keeping stale & low effort metas for too long makes people quit faster than anything else.

[De Bourgogne.9642]

19 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Here's the thing. Is necro really OP? Or is that classes that could heal and cleanse through AOE conditions circles in team-fights got nerfed so hard that nobody plays them anymore.

 

That's the problem with asking for the deletion of scourge or any spec for that matter. Scourge is probably suppressing some other build somewhere, and once scourge is gone, that something will simply take it's place.

 

The problem is people apply linear thinking to a system that is fundamentally non-linear. Simply "deleting" something doesn't fix the problem...complicated systems are intercorrelated with so many other things, that usually you can't formulate the impact of such a change.

 

Take a very good example...Let's say you DID delete scourge in WvW. Scourge is for all intensive purposes the main counter to Boonballs. Remove scourge and what replaces it will be boonballing, and perhaps unkillable zergs. Because of the application of linear thinking, you simply traded one problem for another.

 

Overall, this is what happened ever since February's doomsday patch. Removing amulet after amulet after amulet...trait after trait after trait and guess what? We still have problems...problems that are arguably worse than what we had before. So again we can ask...will deleting yet another thing actually fix anything or have we learned nothing over the past year and a half?

Not just about Scourge being OP. Prot holo is OP and people don't complain about it nearly as much as necro. Scourge is terrible design that can never be balanced it is either dogpoop or OP. Another thing is scourge and mm necro are completely braindead to play. Because of that yes deleting scourge and mm necro actually does fix the problem sure. PvE carried builds shouldn't be a thing in PvP and neither should be bad designs like scourge. Ofc it would be better to rework scourge to not be badly designed but to do that it would have to be changed far beyond what you can expect from Anet + scourge is very good design in PvE to carry bad players in raids. 

Specs are still powercrept people just seem to have the idea that damage numbers are the only thing that is powercreep. Just currently powercreep is in classes having to much sustain compared to damage but before feb patch you had damage and sustain powercreep. There is still so many skills in the game that do 6 things pulsing condis and boons and ccing ect thats where you can see classes still need to be nerfed in many aspects. And if class is badly designed (half the pof specs) delete them from PvP if u arent gonna rework them. 

What will happen after nerfing scourge and mm is. Core necro will replace scourge as teamfighter and prot holos will still afk on sidenodes because daredevil exists and you will have 4v4 (core nec, core guard, daredevil, nade holo/renegade) teamfights which will be more exciting then scourge ones. Or if Sindrener is correct daredevil might get replaced by a revenant on small maps which will make the game much more dynamic.

Edited July 14, 2021 by McPero.3287

[Aeolus.3615]

16 hours ago, Abyssisis.3971 said:

the devs are rolling around as nercos, of course they aren’t gonna see nerfs in a timely manner. 😂

Necros, scrappers and rangers 😛

 

i know a soulbeast build that can output 15k damage hits and several 8k+ xD, : clue u need to be a norn!

I would love  to see a developer playing Rev healing build or something else that players play :F

Anet needs to add to their channel "playing players build".

 

 

@McPero.3287

i conplaing about holo...  some of its skill will bypass  herald "convert damage to healing"

Edited July 14, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Poledra Val.1490]

When you are a developer and you see a class so prevelant and to be blunt broken like Scourge is its an absolute embaressement to do nothing about it for months at a time.

 

Irrespective whether your focused on doing the expansion its a rather sad state of affairs to not lift a finger and help to the health and betterment of the game you created, especially when your work force counts in the hundreds.

 

Bare in mind I do not want to see Scourge nerfed to the ground like Firebrand was in pvp, just balance/fix the spec.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Poledra Val.1490

[Downstate.4697]

Need more ways to counter barrier. Maybe make poison effect it or add a rune that increase damage to enemies with barrier by 10% and then buff traits that do more damage vs barrier.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

if we buff damage first scourge may become a non issue. either way damage is too low, so it makes sense to buff it first and see what happens.

[Sunshine.5014]

People think that Scourge is only OP in PvP and WvW. That's wrong.

 

Scourge is also the most OP class in PvE. The latest release of the Marionette shows that: private squads now require 50 Scourge for the clear. They kick all other classes including Guardians (previously among the top PvE classes).

 

50 Scourge squad guarantees the Marionette clear without tears.

[Abyssisis.3971]

2 hours ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

People think that Scourge is only OP in PvP and WvW. That's wrong.

 

Scourge is also the most OP class in PvE. The latest release of the Marionette shows that: private squads now require 50 Scourge for the clear. They kick all other classes including Guardians (previously among the top PvE classes).

 

50 Scourge squad guarantees the Marionette clear without tears.

^ that’s what was being discussed in guild chat last night…. 

[Kuma.1503]

Scourge is one of the classes that I would like to see reworked. Not buffed or nerfed. Perhaps they could lean into the cursed sand motif a bit more and drain life force from enemies in order to fuel their barriers. Tie their barrier gen into landing a few important skills like desert shroud and give them some sort of life force  into barrier conversion mechanic.

 

When they share their barriers, they could introduce some sort of risk-reward for each ally affected.

 

Perhaps when allies stand in your beneficial AoEs they receive barrier, but a portion of the damage they take is deducted from your life force. So the life force drain scales with the number of allies they support but the barrier generation also scales with the number of enemies they hit. 

 

Just one idea that came to mind in any case.