Thief Elite Specialization Prediction & Speculation Discussion

[nopoet.2960]

There seems to be some logic behind how the classes were released.  The first group had a single target focus. The second group were all multi target classes.  I wonder what could unite the third group?  Like others are saying I suspect pet summoning.  Not sure how i feel about that for thief but the possibility has me really interested in what they will do for rangers.

[AikijinX.6258]

15 minutes ago, nopoet.2960 said:

There seems to be some logic behind how the classes were released.  The first group had a single target focus. The second group were all multi target classes.  I wonder what could unite the third group?  Like others are saying I suspect pet summoning.  Not sure how i feel about that for thief but the possibility has me really interested in what they will do for rangers.

What I would not like to happen is they give us some type of “trap” type of utilities. Knowing them, they’ll give us back Traps and each of them can generate 1 Thief  ally summon. Like what our old Ambush Trap used to do. 

[Tails.9372]

28 minutes ago, nopoet.2960 said:

I wonder what could unite the third group?  Like others are saying I suspect pet summoning.

Wouldn't be that far out there, ranger is already a profession with a focus on the pet mechanic, engineer is rumored to get some kind of pet mechanic and the golem looking symbol would be another indicator for that and as for thief, well in GW1 players could use an item called the "Demonic Summoning Stone" to summon an oni ally so having a spec that uses dark magic to summon and control demons would actually make sense here, both in terms of lore and what we get for a weapon.

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, Vidit.7108 said:

I think at this point considering they gave warrior another damage spec, we're probably getting condi. It might have some way to provide group quickness and fury since that would at least make the detonate plasma nerf make more sense. 

Besides the fact we've not really had core traitlines touched up to give more group support or healing, I think we can say major support/healing is probably dead in the water. Maybe they could give us some kind of radical spec mechanic that carries a support build all on it's own. Considering what they did with the Bladesworn, it's possible we'll get something that big. But I'm not expecting more than a traitline on the dps build that adds more boon output.

Even if we did get a huge mechanic overhaul, it's kind of like "why". At that point we're not really playing thief anymore and considering how few weapons this class has to start with doing something that throws out the base class a little bit like Bladesworn just seems unlikely. At least with Virtuoso getting rid of illusions that's after the class has a lot of different support power and condi options.

Eh...I'd say that the Shadow Arts rework looks to have been made with an eye towards making the thief more support-capable. The healing numbers aren't great, but an elite spec that brings a hefty increased-outgoing-healing trait, along with two other support-oriented major traits and a suitable utility or two, could well make a trickery/SA/elite support build viable.

[Tails.9372]

31 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

an elite spec that brings a hefty increased-outgoing-healing trait, along with two other support-oriented major traits and a suitable utility or two, could well make a trickery/SA/elite support build viable

Something like this is at least another 4 years down the line (if we don't get e-specs with LW episodes) as a strong focus on healing doesn't really fit what seems to be a demonic themed e-spec but I can see this happening if we get some kind of bandit chieftain with warhorn.

[Naneel.2348]

1 hour ago, Tails.9372 said:

Wouldn't be that far out there, ranger is already a profession with a focus on the pet mechanic, engineer is rumored to get some kind of pet mechanic and the golem looking symbol would be another indicator for that and as for thief, well in GW1 players could use an item called the "Demonic Summoning Stone" to summon an oni ally so having a spec that uses dark magic to summon and control demons would actually make sense here, both in terms of lore and what we get for a weapon.

Maybe it really is more about pets, then summoning. Thief could get new class-mechanic to summon his own shadow to aid in battle or steal gets a 2nd effect and summons a shadowcopy to aid you for some time 🤔

 

[AikijinX.6258]

If you guys have noticed, all 3 of those elite specs (Vindicator, Bladesworn, Catalyst)  have gotten some type of utility skill or skill CD either for a grandmaster ability or a trait (via vindicator adept or master line, I can’t remember which one but it was one of them. As well as warrior getting flow generation trait. 

Would it be too far fetch to think that possibly we may get some type of initiative generation increase trait?

Initiative generation increase is what we’ve been asking for. (And preparedness baseline)

Edited September 18, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[Tails.9372]

25 minutes ago, Naneel.2348 said:

Maybe it really is more about pets, then summoning.

If so then I want to get an oni that behaves like Turai Ossa during his opening phase.

14 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

Would it be too far fetch to think that possibly we may get some type of initiative generation increase trait?

We already have one: Maleficent Seven. It regenerates 7 ini every time it triggers and you can get it to trigger every 3-4 sec. meaning that it adds about 2 ini per sec. back to your pool which would be the baseline every new "ini reg" trait would have to measure up against.

[AikijinX.6258]

46 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

If so then I want to get an oni that behaves like Turai Ossa during his opening phase.

We already have one: Maleficent Seven. It regenerates 7 ini every time it triggers and you can get it to trigger every 3-4 sec. meaning that it adds about 2 ini per sec. back to your pool which would be the baseline every new "ini reg" trait would have to measure up against.

Maleficent Seven “restores” initiative instantly on proc. Initiative “generation” or “regeneration” is different, It’s an overtime generation of Thief resource.  I’m aware you know this, but we are not talking about the same thing. Technically. 
 

I was hoping on the next elite spec for possibly some type of minor or adept trait that offers faster initiative regeneration not a Hard restoration, because as you said we already have this in the form of M7.

Edited September 18, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[Fueki.4753]

3 hours ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

What I would not like to happen is they give us some type of “trap” type of utilities. Knowing them, they’ll give us back Traps and each of them can generate 1 Thief  ally summon. Like what our old Ambush Trap used to do. 

If they gave Thief traps back, they'd either need to delete Trapper runes from PvP or replace Stealth with something else on that specialization. Thief still needs less access to Stealth, not more.

Edited September 18, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Graeaw.6329]

18 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Thief still needs less access to Stealth, not more.

Thief needs less dependence on Stealth

[AikijinX.6258]

1 hour ago, Graeaw.6329 said:

Thief needs less dependence on Stealth

While I agree. What do you think a Thief is? The true essence and nature of a Thief revolves around acrobatics, agility, and stealth. 

[Graeaw.6329]

30 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

While I agree. What do you think a Thief is? The true essence and nature of a Thief revolves around acrobatics, agility, and stealth. 

Absolutely, from a fantasy viewpoint, I agree so much. From a gaming viewpoint, I CBA having our class outperformed in literally every aspect of the game aside from running away fast, just because "stealth op"

[Tails.9372]

43 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

While I agree. What do you think a Thief is? The true essence and nature of a Thief revolves around acrobatics, agility, and stealth. 

But this only really applies to core thief, any variation (aka. e-spec) does not have to adhere to these restrictions to be thematically coherent. You can have a pirate or bandit or viking themed e-spec and none of them would be required to be "acrobatic, agile or stealthy". 

[ASP.8093]

5 hours ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

Initiative generation increase is what we’ve been asking for. (And preparedness baseline)

The people asking for that won't be happy unless they can use it with Daredevil, though.

Otherwise they'd just take M7 and call it a day.

[hatozeni.5721]

I will really be surprised if the new elite spec is better than DeadEye. It's like trying to imagine what was there before the big bang. As a PVP player... All I ever wanted to play was a sniper who manages to go invisible. I can't imagine anything better than this.

[Felices Bladewing.3914]

after seeing Bladesworn i cant get the idea of a magical Scepter-Kusarigama out of my head which deals non-targetable AoE around the character maybe even building up the radius. Would fit perfectly with stuff like Scorpion Wire. kitten i really get too excited about this

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

15 hours ago, Felices Bladewing.3914 said:

after seeing Bladesworn i cant get the idea of a magical Scepter-Kusarigama out of my head which deals non-targetable AoE around the character maybe even building up the radius. Would fit perfectly with stuff like Scorpion Wire. kitten i really get too excited about this

They'd need to fix scorpion wire first... and a bunch of other utils.

[AikijinX.6258]

Everyone complaining about Flow generation and gain on the warrior forum, while Thieves have been complaining about initiative generation/gain for years. But guess which class will probably get their resource mechanic fixed first. 🙃

[ASP.8093]

8 hours ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

Everyone complaining about Flow generation and gain on the warrior forum, while Thieves have been complaining about initiative generation/gain for years. But guess which class will probably get their resource mechanic fixed first. 🙃

Initiative is great, though. You get it at the start of the fight, you can generate it passively, there are many traits and skills that give you some that manage to be pretty good in general. There's even a whole spec that generates it.

Flow is adrenaline in a funny hat.

[Tails.9372]

20 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

there are many traits and skills that give you some that manage to be pretty good in general

There is exactly one trait that would actually fit this description, all the other options are extremely lackluster.

20 minutes ago, ASP.8093 said:

There's even a whole spec that generates it.

And yet one trait from another spec does a better job at generating initiative than the entirety of that specialization, even if A-Net would quadruple the ini reg from that specialization it still wouldn't match it.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

On 9/21/2021 at 10:17 PM, AikijinX.6258 said:

Everyone complaining about Flow generation and gain on the warrior forum, while Thieves have been complaining about initiative generation/gain for years. But guess which class will probably get their resource mechanic fixed first. 🙃

Assuming they listen to feedback. 

 

Its another thing to charge 14 (iirc with Trickery) Initiative and another to charge 100 Flow. 

 

Also, warriors complain because we already have a functional mechanic in 30 adrenaline but anet wants to feel unique ig.. Even said they went back to look at all skills and traits granting adrenaline lol.. 

 

They can fix warrior quickly cause the answer already exists. About thieves? No idea.

[nopoet.2960]

7 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

...

 

Its another thing to charge 14 (iirc with Trickery) Initiative and another to charge 100 Flow. 

 

...

The solution is so obvious now! 100 >12.  We need 100 initiative!

[draxynnic.3719]

5 minutes ago, nopoet.2960 said:

The solution is so obvious now! 100 >12.  We need 100 initiative!

Except that with the trend of all these 'X is greater than Y' jokes that were made on the stream, if that happened thief would probably get something like having all their initiative costs increased by a factor of five to account for the higher total, but the rate at which initiative is gained would not substantially change.

[hatozeni.5721]

Samurai.