Legendary armor by pve exploration [Merged]

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

2 hours ago, Afyael.1740 said:

I do think there should be a way for PvE'rs to get it besides raids, especially given that Anet is no longer releasing content for it. Perhaps tie it to fractals which are much more accessible but make it take double or triple the time because it's easier.

I'd argue that some fractal  CM bosses are actually, actively, more difficult than some raid bosses.

But they also are adding more raid-like content with strikes.  Strikes are just easier to develop because the bosses and assets already exist and it's easier to modify an existing boss with new mechanics than it is to make a brand new boss with new mechanics then slap a CM on top of it that adds even more things to do.

[Gehenna.3625]

4 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

It's not elitist nor is it harassment to be removed from a party or squad for underperforming in your role.
It's not elitist  nor is it harassment to be told repeatedly to pick up the slack.
It is entitled and harassment to constantly demand a position in groups where you won't pull your own weight.

Assuming there's a time limit on bosses (I assume there is but I don't raid in this game), the first two are very true. You need to kill a boss before a timer runs out and your DPS as a group needs to be high enough to kill the boss on time. Depending on how tight the DPS check is you need to pull your weight. If the DPS check is not that tight however some leeway is in order.

 

The third bit I agree with without any stipulations. That's just bad behavior.

 

"Elitist" is a term that is used way too quickly whenever people run into something where they actually need to learn the specifics of the combat system, including gearing, maximizing your output and learning the ins and outs of boss mechanics. This content is not for you if you don't want to do all of the things that I mention and that's ok. You do not need to be able to do all content in an MMO with auto-attack and an occasional dodge. There is plenty of content for you already.

 

I do not raid because I think the combat system is meh and I don't want to learn it in detail. I automatically have done some things already so I do use all my skills etc. but since I don't want to deepen my knowledge of the combat system and I gear my character according to my character concepts and I don't want to commit to raiding times and such the obvious conclusion for myself is that I don't do raids. I don't want to be carried by groups because I know the  other side of it from other games where I do raid.

 

And this is the reason why I'm for legendary gear in OW content, particularly armor sets. Casual players will stop wanting to make raiding easier because it will be available to them in OW and if they still do, raiders will have a solid argument why it shouldn't be.

[Dante.1763]

24 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Assuming there's a time limit on bosses (I assume there is but I don't raid in this game), the first two are very true. You need to kill a boss before a timer runs out and your DPS as a group needs to be high enough to kill the boss on time. Depending on how tight the DPS check is you need to pull your weight. If the DPS check is not that tight however some leeway is in order.

 

The third bit I agree with without any stipulations. That's just bad behavior.

 

"Elitist" is a term that is used way too quickly whenever people run into something where they actually need to learn the specifics of the combat system, including gearing, maximizing your output and learning the ins and outs of boss mechanics. This content is not for you if you don't want to do all of the things that I mention and that's ok. You do not need to be able to do all content in an MMO with auto-attack and an occasional dodge. There is plenty of content for you already.

 

I do not raid because I think the combat system is meh and I don't want to learn it in detail. I automatically have done some things already so I do use all my skills etc. but since I don't want to deepen my knowledge of the combat system and I gear my character according to my character concepts and I don't want to commit to raiding times and such the obvious conclusion for myself is that I don't do raids. I don't want to be carried by groups because I know the  other side of it from other games where I do raid.

 

And this is the reason why I'm for legendary gear in OW content, particularly armor sets. Casual players will stop wanting to make raiding easier because it will be available to them in OW and if they still do, raiders will have a solid argument why it shouldn't be.

Theres a timer, but its before they engrage, usually. Some like Deimos have a NPC whos health has to be watched, and some like Sabetha are on a platform thats getting destroyed as you fight. You can heal the NPC, but the platform has a finite amount of HP. Cannons pop up that have to be destroyed or the platform dies.

 

I used to call raiders elitists(still do sometimes) but it has more to do with the attitude they have towards anyone who doesnt raid. It does not include players who put their party/squad requirements up.

Is it everyone who raids? Absolutely not.

Is that group very vocal? Yes, yes it is.

That same attitude was present in dungeons and fractals as well, thankfully its gone away there for the most part.

I will also say one does not have to maximize all the things in regards to class. Knowing the raid mechanics, no..being familiar with mechanics is often enough to get by. Support classes are trickier, they have to know their class and be good at it, along with being good at boss mechanics. They can make or break a boss, dps can too, but its not as easy.

Heck, yesterday i took over for our kiter on Sabetha after they died, as a dps, was going well till i ate the flame wall 😞
 

However, even knowing the above, raids arent for everyone. Not everyone can do them, and some players really shouldnt even try to. I for example would never take my mom into a raid. Just nope.

 

Solid agree with your last paragraph.

 

[Zalavaaris.5329]

4 hours ago, Afyael.1740 said:

I do think there should be a way for PvE'rs to get it besides raids, especially given that Anet is no longer releasing content for it. Perhaps tie it to fractals which are much more accessible but make it take double or triple the time because it's easier.

Thats not necessarily true. Strike CMs could very well be a replacement for conventional raids and we have an entire expansion to get through before you can say that. Changing the title from raids to strike CMs is semantics. It's just like fractals were the replacement for dungeons, but let's be real here..... they are dungeons.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Zalavaaris.5329

[Dante.1763]

1 minute ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Thats not necessarily true. Strike CMs could very well be a replacement for conventional raids and we have an entire expansion to get through before you can say that. 

Ehhh players in the raid forum dont seem to want strike cm as replacement for raids.

And frankly i have major doubts that strike cms will take off. I think a similiar thing will happen to them that has happened to raids(via the clear cut offs at LI.) Players will get the gear/achievements and stop doing them.

Strikes will probably continue to be done yes, cms..we will see.

[Gehenna.3625]

1 hour ago, Dante.1763 said:

I used to call raiders elitists(still do sometimes) but it has more to do with the attitude they have towards anyone who doesnt raid. It does not include players who put their party/squad requirements up.

Is it everyone who raids? Absolutely not.

Is that group very vocal? Yes, yes it is.

That same attitude was present in dungeons and fractals as well, thankfully its gone away there for the most part.

 

Yeah, I also call raiders elitist when they have condescending attitudes but definitely not all raiders have that.

 

When people are willing to learn and do their best I wouldn't kick them from the group but help them instead. If they consistently didn't or couldn't make the required DPS then I wouldn't accept them in my group because then it was clear that they didn't have it in them and the rest of the group would be frustrated because they would go into raids knowing they couldn't succeed no matter what they did. This is from my experience in other games cause I don't raid in this game.

 

And that's the part that a lot of people who want to do raids but not put in the effort don't understand. And the answer to that is that "this is not the content you're looking for" and that's ok.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

18 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Ehhh players in the raid forum dont seem to want strike cm as replacement for raids.

And frankly i have major doubts that strike cms will take off. I think a similiar thing will happen to them that has happened to raids(via the clear cut offs at LI.) Players will get the gear/achievements and stop doing them.

Strikes will probably continue to be done yes, cms..we will see.

In all honesty, for me, it's a name change. The current raids have no trash (in some areas I guess but VERY sparse). The raids feel like you're running from boss to boss anyway so strikes aren't that far off. And they will offer a way for newer players to run the non CM version to get the experience while the more hardcore will run the CMs. It all comes down to tuning. If they make the CMs hard enough I'll be happy, but they really need to bring the pain or else it won't be a worthy replacement. However, we still don't know for sure that they've stopped raid development. 2020 was a hard year for devs of all games so I don't think the drought is fair to judge the future of an entire content genre on. We will have to wait and see.

[Dante.1763]

4 minutes ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

In all honesty, for me, it's a name change. The current raids have no trash (in some areas I guess but VERY sparse). The raids feel like you're running from boss to boss anyway so strikes aren't that far off. And they will offer a way for newer players to run the non CM version to get the experience while the more hardcore will run the CMs. It all comes down to tuning. If they make the CMs hard enough I'll be happy, but they really need to bring the pain or else it won't be a worthy replacement. However, we still don't know for sure that they've stopped raid development. 2020 was a hard year for devs of all games so I don't think the drought is fair to judge the future of an entire content genre on. We will have to wait and see.

Oh i agree! I personally like strikes, im curious to see how they implement strike CMs.

I also like the one and done way Strikes work.

[Gibson.4036]

One of the things that I've always liked about the way legendary weapons were designed was that they took some effort across the game to achieve. As a pretty much open world PVE player, I like dabbling a little in PvP, WvW, and am even willing try out Fractals a bit to pull together what's needed.

I'm just starting my journey of my first legendary weapon, so I pretty much ignored legendary armor until recently. Now, after learning more about it, I'm realizing just how amazing it would be to have armor across all characters of a given armor weight, able to change with the shifting profession tweaks. But exclusive to raids?

I'd reallylove a legendary armor journey that goes back to the original concept of showing time invested in multiple areas of the game, rather than locking it behind specific devotion to one of three areas.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

2 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

One of the things that I've always liked about the way legendary weapons were designed was that they took some effort across the game to achieve. As a pretty much open world PVE player, I like dabbling a little in PvP, WvW, and am even willing try out Fractals a bit to pull together what's needed.

I'm just starting my journey of my first legendary weapon, so I pretty much ignored legendary armor until recently. Now, after learning more about it, I'm realizing just how amazing it would be to have armor across all characters of a given armor weight, able to change with the shifting profession tweaks. But exclusive to raids?

I'd reallylove a legendary armor journey that goes back to the original concept of showing time invested in multiple areas of the game, rather than locking it behind specific devotion to one of three areas.

It actually does require work outside of raids. It requires events from HoT, it requires something called provisioners tokens, and it also requires currency from fractals, pvp, and wvw. The collection is also based around open world HoT events. You actually need to do quite a few of the HoT map Meta events to make each piece. 

[Gibson.4036]

3 hours ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

It actually does require work outside of raids. It requires events from HoT, it requires something called provisioners tokens, and it also requires currency from fractals, pvp, and wvw. The collection is also based around open world HoT events. You actually need to do quite a few of the HoT map Meta events to make each piece. 

Ah, thanks for letting me know that. I started reading about it and the general summary was "primarily through raids". I'll have to look more closely.

 

[Zalavaaris.5329]

34 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Ah, thanks for letting me know that. I started reading about it and the general summary was "primarily through raids". I'll have to look more closely.

 

Thats because one of the main time sinks is the requirement of legendary insights. You get one from each boss you kill with a maximum of 25 per week. You need 150 for your first full set. So it does require 6 weeks of raiding to get it. I was just trying to point out that it isn't exclusively raid content is all. It's a lot of fun! 

[Dante.1763]

4 hours ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

It actually does require work outside of raids. It requires events from HoT, it requires something called provisioners tokens, and it also requires currency from fractals, pvp, and wvw. The collection is also based around open world HoT events. You actually need to do quite a few of the HoT map Meta events to make each piece. 

 

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Ah, thanks for letting me know that. I started reading about it and the general summary was "primarily through raids". I'll have to look more closely.

 

its -alot- of HOT events. Id say at minimum 25 Tangled Depths metas, not sure on the rest xD

If you plan on getting into raids/working on legendary armor, id start doing a few things now.

1.) Start learning a build or two, or even three(DPS and a support build, if your class has one.). Practice a bit everyday ^^

2.) Start getting the provisioner tokens now, if you can, you need 300 of them and they are limited per day. Im using Charged crystals for mine, otherwise expensive.

Anet is kind enough to give you a precursor set of armor for finishing the two collections(And you have to do the two collections), which makes the first set easier, cheaper and faster.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

14 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

Theres a timer, but its before they engrage, usually. Some like Deimos have a NPC whos health has to be watched, and some like Sabetha are on a platform thats getting destroyed as you fight. You can heal the NPC, but the platform has a finite amount of HP. Cannons pop up that have to be destroyed or the platform dies.

 

I used to call raiders elitists(still do sometimes) but it has more to do with the attitude they have towards anyone who doesnt raid. It does not include players who put their party/squad requirements up.

Is it everyone who raids? Absolutely not.

Is that group very vocal? Yes, yes it is.

That same attitude was present in dungeons and fractals as well, thankfully its gone away there for the most part.

I will also say one does not have to maximize all the things in regards to class. Knowing the raid mechanics, no..being familiar with mechanics is often enough to get by. Support classes are trickier, they have to know their class and be good at it, along with being good at boss mechanics. They can make or break a boss, dps can too, but its not as easy.

Heck, yesterday i took over for our kiter on Sabetha after they died, as a dps, was going well till i ate the flame wall 😞
 

However, even knowing the above, raids arent for everyone. Not everyone can do them, and some players really shouldnt even try to. I for example would never take my mom into a raid. Just nope.

 

Solid agree with your last paragraph.

 

Look, I've already broken down this argumentation that DPS doesn't matter or "It's just enrage" using dhuum as an example.

The longer the fight  goes, the more mechanics you'll have to deal with and the less overall damage you'll be  doing.  If the ceiling for your raid squad's DPS is *just* at 60k, then that means the floor is much, much lower.  You want that floor to be *at least* an average of 60k and the ceiling to be as high as you and your squad can reasonably get it to make up for any deaths, mechanics, or lack of boons. You also need certain DPS thresholds for certain strategies.

[Dante.1763]

11 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Look, I've already broken down this argumentation that DPS doesn't matter or "It's just enrage" using dhuum as an example.

The longer the fight  goes, the more mechanics you'll have to deal with and the less overall damage you'll be  doing.  If the ceiling for your raid squad's DPS is *just* at 60k, then that means the floor is much, much lower.  You want that floor to be *at least* an average of 60k and the ceiling to be as high as you and your squad can reasonably get it to make up for any deaths, mechanics, or lack of boons. You also need certain DPS thresholds for certain strategies.

Uh..i was just explaining the timers..nothing else. Literally nothing else.

[Gehenna.3625]

17 hours ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Thats because one of the main time sinks is the requirement of legendary insights. You get one from each boss you kill with a maximum of 25 per week. You need 150 for your first full set. So it does require 6 weeks of raiding to get it. I was just trying to point out that it isn't exclusively raid content is all. It's a lot of fun! 

Yeah but if you really are not good at raiding or really don't care for such content then this is the "insurmountable" stumbling block that makes everything else irrelevant. And it's six weeks of raiding IF you kill 25 raid bosses in a week.  I'm not sure how much time it takes to do a raid here and how many bosses are in a raid but that's some commitment, especially when you're a newby and have to learn to raid from scratch. So your six weeks are actually a bare minimum and only achievable if you're really committed. Though I've heard about LI runs where you can join a group for the loot of the last boss or something (as long as you've killed that boss already once). It's cheating from what I can tell, but it's allowed cause Anet haven't shut that down yet I guess.

 

They really opened up a can of wurms with this legendary armory because it suddenly opens legendaries up to a much larger and broader group of people. For the sake of the raiders I do hope they come up with armor sets that don't require raids or people are going to complain about raids being too hard for them and to nerf the difficulty.

[Dante.1763]

35 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Yeah but if you really are not good at raiding or really don't care for such content then this is the "insurmountable" stumbling block that makes everything else irrelevant. And it's six weeks of raiding IF you kill 25 raid bosses in a week.  I'm not sure how much time it takes to do a raid here and how many bosses are in a raid but that's some commitment, especially when you're a newby and have to learn to raid from scratch. So your six weeks are actually a bare minimum and only achievable if you're really committed. Though I've heard about LI runs where you can join a group for the loot of the last boss or something (as long as you've killed that boss already once). It's cheating from what I can tell, but it's allowed cause Anet haven't shut that down yet I guess.

 

They really opened up a can of wurms with this legendary armory because it suddenly opens legendaries up to a much larger and broader group of people. For the sake of the raiders I do hope they come up with armor sets that don't require raids or people are going to complain about raids being too hard for them and to nerf the difficulty.

Personally figuring around 10 li a week. So far im at 4 this week. It will take me 9 more weeks to get the LI i dont already have(im at 61 now.).

Lowest LI i will get a week is 0, if im to overwhelmed by raids or real life to even get in the mindset to do them.

But from what ive experienced its 1-4 hours avg per wing. Again my own experience has been that.

 

[Zalavaaris.5329]

2 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Yeah but if you really are not good at raiding or really don't care for such content then this is the "insurmountable" stumbling block that makes everything else irrelevant. And it's six weeks of raiding IF you kill 25 raid bosses in a week.  I'm not sure how much time it takes to do a raid here and how many bosses are in a raid but that's some commitment, especially when you're a newby and have to learn to raid from scratch. So your six weeks are actually a bare minimum and only achievable if you're really committed. Though I've heard about LI runs where you can join a group for the loot of the last boss or something (as long as you've killed that boss already once). It's cheating from what I can tell, but it's allowed cause Anet haven't shut that down yet I guess.

 

They really opened up a can of wurms with this legendary armory because it suddenly opens legendaries up to a much larger and broader group of people. For the sake of the raiders I do hope they come up with armor sets that don't require raids or people are going to complain about raids being too hard for them and to nerf the difficulty.

Thats fine too! Everyone's journey is different. I wouldn't rush it. Enjoy the journey! 

 

For reference, I need 350 LI to finish my goal so I get the struggle lol but I take it week by week!

Edited September 1, 2021 by Zalavaaris.5329

[Gehenna.3625]

2 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

Personally figuring around 10 li a week. So far im at 4 this week. It will take me 9 more weeks to get the LI i dont already have(im at 61 now.).

Lowest LI i will get a week is 0, if im to overwhelmed by raids or real life to even get in the mindset to do them.

But from what ive experienced its 1-4 hours avg per wing. Again my own experience has been that.

 

Just for my understanding, does each wing give an LI then?

[Dante.1763]

1 minute ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Just for my understanding, does each wing give an LI then?

Each boss gives 1, and some events also give 1 ^^

[Gehenna.3625]

Just now, Dante.1763 said:

Each boss gives 1, and some events also give 1 ^^

ehh ok, follow up question then: how many bosses per wing?

[Dante.1763]

Just now, Gehenna.3625 said:

ehh ok, follow up question then: how many bosses per wing?

3 usually?

W1 has VG, Gore and Sab, but you get an LI from the spirit forest event thing.

W3 has Escort, TC, KC and whats her name at the end. Two of those are events though.

W4 has Cairn, MO, Sammy and Deimos.

[Gehenna.3625]

20 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

3 usually?

W1 has VG, Gore and Sab, but you get an LI from the spirit forest event thing.

W3 has Escort, TC, KC and whats her name at the end. Two of those are events though.

W4 has Cairn, MO, Sammy and Deimos.

Ah thanks. Yeah it sort of gives me an idea what you'd have to do for it time-wise. It's of course the hardest content of the three (raids, pvp and wvw). I do like to wvw every week but a full set takes 22 weeks at its fastest and considering my speed of acquiring wvw tickets it'll take me almost two years to get one set of legendary armor.

 

I can sort of see why people would throw matches in pvp as an alternative, which isn't good but I get it. 

[Astralporing.1957]

21 hours ago, Dante.1763 said:

its -alot- of HOT events. Id say at minimum 25 Tangled Depths metas, not sure on the rest xD

You need 30 chak eggs. You get at least one guaranteed drop from each Gerent event (and can get more than one), and one more from the daily select choice chest. So, at most 15 events, potentially less (for example, my last 3 gerents gave me 10 eggs total).

[Dante.1763]

3 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You need 30 chak eggs. You get at least one guaranteed drop from each Gerent event (and can get more than one), and one more from the daily select choice chest. So, at most 15 events, potentially less (for example, my last 3 gerents gave me 10 eggs total).

I say 30 due to using TD for AGs, need them too, 15 if you arent working on anything else ill agree to, ive uh..never seen more than 1 egg drop, so i wasnt sure if that wiki page was accurate or not 😞