Matchmaking is inexcusably bad

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

The topic pretty much says it all.  At least 50% of matches are landslides one way or the other.  It is not uncommon at all for one team to have 80%+ of the kills, or for the win margins to be >200 points.  

 

Frankly, I think I could do just as good of a job at picking teams by pulling names out of a hat.

 

Given that matchmaking is at the core of the sPvP experience, re-working/improving this needs to be a top priority.  Whatever sorry excuse for an algorithm we have now, it isn't working.

 

I welcome any constructive thoughts for improvement.

[Sunshine.5014]

It's bad because of the beta.

 

Players play Beta specs, but are not familiar yet, and lead to either "omg, I killed and I don't know how" and "omg, I died, and I don't know why". Basically, give them some time to get used to the new specs.

 

On the other hand, FOCUS the BETA specs hard haha. They are new, and they are not familiar with the build yet. Free breakfast.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Sadly this has nothing to do with the Beta.  Beta specs are the same for both sides.  The problem is the matches themselves.

 

This has been going on for at least as long as I've played PvP.

 

 

[Sunshine.5014]

5 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Sadly this has nothing to do with the Beta.  Beta specs are the same for both sides.  The problem is the matches themselves.

 

This has been going on for at least as long as I've played PvP.

 

 

 

Beta specs means people are not familiar with it yet. That means one games they can play extremely well, while messing up so hard at the next game. The match making algorithm is based on the fact that people perform more or less the same over a short period (like a day), so it will not match well in a beta event.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

What I'm saying is that this is NOT a new occurrence.  Bad matchmaking has been a problem long before the Beta and will continue to be (unless it is fixed) long after the Beta.  This is not a Beta problem.  Players playing Beta characters might not play well, that's true, but that is not at all the underlying issue.

[Terrorsquad.2349]

Bad balance > (New) Players leave due to bad experience > less players in matchmaking pool > matchmaking broadens the search fast (example: plat2 vs gold 1)

 

Look, I know it's not easy to balance the game and there will never be a perfect balance. Game is not balanced around 1v1 but 5v5. People expect to be equal with any build vs any build but due to the paper-rock-scissor-philosophy, players will most likely encounter a build hardcountering theirs.

 

However, not balacing on frequent times will leave the gates wide open for people to leave PvP which results in OP's (and mine) unlucky matchups.

 

1 matchup there was a plat 2 player facing a gold 1 player in same match. Because the matchmaking is looking for people around your rating but after x-amount of time, it will search for tier-division lower and higher. Still not enough players? It will look in 1 division higher or lower.

This should NOT happen and only results in bad matches/experience.

 

This won't change until EoD I'm afraid. And will surely follow up quite quickly after release into same cycle of bad matchups due to no frequent balances.

 

I don't expect much from monthly balance patches. Just a number change here and there, fix some traits and that's it. Little steps. Few hours work per month and procceed from there.

Happy people = more people pvp = bigger pool = better matches.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Quote

1 matchup there was a plat 2 player facing a gold 1 player in same match. Because the matchmaking is looking for people around your rating but after x-amount of time, it will search for tier-division lower and higher. Still not enough players? It will look in 1 division higher or lower.

This should NOT happen and only results in bad matches/experience.

Agreed.  I would rather the game tell me, "Sorry, please try again later," than get put in a match where I either get curb-stomped or in a match where I win 500-100.  I play PvP to compete.  It's not competition when it's a slaughter.

[BlackTruth.6813]

2 hours ago, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

Bad balance > (New) Players leave due to bad experience > less players in matchmaking pool > matchmaking broadens the search fast (example: plat2 vs gold 1)

 

Look, I know it's not easy to balance the game and there will never be a perfect balance. Game is not balanced around 1v1 but 5v5. People expect to be equal with any build vs any build but due to the paper-rock-scissor-philosophy, players will most likely encounter a build hardcountering theirs.

 

However, not balacing on frequent times will leave the gates wide open for people to leave PvP which results in OP's (and mine) unlucky matchups.

 

1 matchup there was a plat 2 player facing a gold 1 player in same match. Because the matchmaking is looking for people around your rating but after x-amount of time, it will search for tier-division lower and higher. Still not enough players? It will look in 1 division higher or lower.

This should NOT happen and only results in bad matches/experience.

 

This won't change until EoD I'm afraid. And will surely follow up quite quickly after release into same cycle of bad matchups due to no frequent balances.

 

I don't expect much from monthly balance patches. Just a number change here and there, fix some traits and that's it. Little steps. Few hours work per month and procceed from there.

Happy people = more people pvp = bigger pool = better matches.

Yeah... it doesn't help that you have to pay attention to back caps in 5v5s. 2v2 and 3v3 game modes would've actually been the better damage control move if they really wanted to keep people in the game (Ok actually it's not even damage control, 2v2 and 3v3 modes way less toxic than 5v5 conquest cause 5v5 conquest requires map awareness and that's kind of a turn off. I don't think people on average want to do "objectives," people most likely want to just fight on average)

[jdawgie.1835]

Bump

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

another game in ranked where one team gets 90% of the kills...

This is Ranked, people.  It's supposed to be quality matches.

 

Anet, please fix.  This is literally the backbone of PvP.

You can't have good PvP experience when good matches are "happy accidents"

[Sunshine.5014]

8 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

another game in ranked where one team gets 90% of the kills...

This is Ranked, people.  It's supposed to be quality matches.

 

Anet, please fix.  This is literally the backbone of PvP.

You can't have good PvP experience when good matches are "happy accidents"

 

There are tons of beta people in ranked. They don't lose rating if they lose. They don't try hard.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Sunshine.5014

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

6 minutes ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

 

There are tons of beta people in ranked. They don't lose rating if they lose. They don't try hard.

There were no beta people in that match.  

Beyond that, as stated in previous  posts, this is NOT a new problem.  You can't blame everything on the Beta

[Marxx.5021]

You may also ask why beta chars are allowed in ranked matches. It is the same answer as for why match making is bad. Anet does not care about PvP.

[Terrorsquad.2349]

2 minutes ago, Marxx.5021 said:

You may also ask why beta chars are allowed in ranked matches. It is the same answer as for why match making is bad. Anet does not care about PvP.

I think this right here hits the nail. Said what many are thinking.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

One issue is : as devs/the game doesn't want to identify roles / classes, which has its reason, you can be matched with 4 duelists/roamers or full power without cleanse etc.

Even if you have same "skill"or evo if the opposite team has chance to get a tank necro + support to hold a point indefinitely or more more consistent team anyway, the game is done.

Obviously you can switch characters and build before the match starts ... But, me the first, no one loves that either; because loadings, because need to look at build, then look at gear etc.

 

In some others pvp game MMR try to match differents roles if you don't build your team yourself.

(Or you have character selection with team preview)

If already we could see the 3 traitlanes and/or amulets of each teammates we could already adapt on purpose.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Spleen.7836]

I've reach the point of the season when I'm starting to get matched with teams that are clearly not the same rank as the enemy teams, again and again. I get normal games for a while, with creatively balanced matches, then something happens and all my matches get the same :

- I start close to cap ;

- 1 or 2 member(s) of my team are downed before I'm there ;

- My team never call target ;

- If I call target, they don't follow it and 1 or 2 of them attack a different one ;

- My teammates chase 1 guy across the map while we have 1 or 0 points ;

- When an enemy is down, I'm the only one trying to cleave/stomp, the others start attacking someone else or leave, even if enemies try to revive him ;

- My teammates barely stay alive while outnumbering the enemy team.

 

I had like 3 wins from my last 15 games. I'm not even exaggerating. For the past 20 games, my teammates were downed during the first 30 seconds in 15 of them.

 

Something is clearly not right. it always happens when I'm reaching plat, then it pursues me until I'm back at gold 2.

[Xentera.4560]

As long as the MMR is targeting a 50:50 win rate, and setting matches based on TEAM average rating not INDIVIDUAL rating it will be kitten. 
Sadly it is working as intended. And that’s why this game cannot maintain a good pvp population. The MMR punishes you for playing.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Xentera.4560

[Genesis.5169]

1 hour ago, Xentera.4560 said:

As long as the MMR is targeting a 50:50 win rate, and setting matches based on TEAM average rating not INDIVIDUAL rating it will be kitten. 
Sadly it is working as intended. And that’s why this game cannot maintain a good pvp population. The MMR punishes you for playing.

 

The loss of the pvp population is affecting the quality of the queue you have it in reverse, what i'm assuming is that if there are no diamond players they will play in gold, but because there in gold Matchmaking will prolly put a silver on that team to balance out the overall MMR of the team. That's why you will see wild skill disparity on the team(s).

 

This is unfixable till the pvp population gets to be a reasonable size with a larger player pool algo's can work better. Best way to solve this is get more people to pvp, and suggest good changes, to bring more people in while not alienating those already there, HoT did this so did PoF, icebrood is when it started going downhill. There was the old heart of the mist change too, i wonder if it started then too.

 

Ignore the part about old heart of the mist i really don't know why it was changed.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Xentera.4560]

I see it as a vicious cycle. The MMR frustrates the remaining pvp population into playing less, driving their numbers down; and that in turn creates even worse match making because otherwise the queues would take too long.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

if pvp was strictly team q then the balance team could build specs around defined roles, and if they never abandoned the no trinity concept then we could have balanced sustain along with balanced damage. instead we have solo/ duo q which exacerbates the problem builds that can do everything, cuz they must do everything in an environment where there is no immediate support or support at all. conquest as a mode also creates problems. you have to have builds that can hold a 1v1 or even a 1v2 for a time, but be able to dish out enough counter pressure damage. thats fine on its own, except when combined with a support or just being in a balanced team fight. now this build has a significant advantage over others, and good luck trying to focus it down. good luck facing a full team of these builds. in a way the meme levels of damage were necessary to take down the meme levels of sustain pre megapatch, but with no follow up its just another meme. the megapatch was not the cause of what we find ourselves in now, the cause was the flaw of no team q, no trinity concept abandoned, all combined with conquest which necessitates do it all builds. any of these are fine on their own but the combo is what doomed the mode. the play how you want attitude emanating from the game was also of no help. every single pvp game with team work involved has necessities it has to check off in order for the team to succeed. failure isn't a choice people are going to choose, they are going to choose the meta, so the meta better be managed by devs who know what they're doing and have the power to do it or the mode will fail, without fail.

 

edit

i forgot to include skill design. we could have 100s of skills of they were designed to do only one thing. this underpins and perhaps undermines my other points. oh well.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Stand The Wall.6987

[Kuma.1503]

I wish I could have been around to experience team queue. It would be nice to get together with a group of friends and practice PvP in a less structured (but still competitive) environment. 

 

Well... it would be if the Feb Patch (and the following nerf patches) hadn't caused most of my friend group to quit. 

[Xentera.4560]

Premade team vs team is currently called tournament.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

This game doesn't need seasoned pvp. It needs permanent ladders for each game mode 2v2, 3v3 , and 5v5. As of now im done with 5v5 conquest. The mini seasons are not enough for me, and they dont balance for each of the 2v2 or 3v3 game mode so you get class stacking, excessive healing, barrier and ressing people for those modes so i dont even play them whem they are available. 9 years, i have never stuck to a game longer then this one. And after 9 years they devs are just to thuck headed to make pvp a proper full fledged game mode. I dont think ill log on again this year. Only to try out the new ele if they have a beta test of that. Other then that this game and the development of it is stale and done for me.

[jdawgie.1835]

9 hours ago, Spleen.7836 said:

I've reach the point of the season when I'm starting to get matched with teams that are clearly not the same rank as the enemy teams, again and again. I get normal games for a while, with creatively balanced matches, then something happens and all my matches get the same :

- I start close to cap ;

- 1 or 2 member(s) of my team are downed before I'm there ;

- My team never call target ;

- If I call target, they don't follow it and 1 or 2 of them attack a different one ;

- My teammates chase 1 guy across the map while we have 1 or 0 points ;

- When an enemy is down, I'm the only one trying to cleave/stomp, the others start attacking someone else or leave, even if enemies try to revive him ;

- My teammates barely stay alive while outnumbering the enemy team.

 

I had like 3 wins from my last 15 games. I'm not even exaggerating. For the past 20 games, my teammates were downed during the first 30 seconds in 15 of them.

 

Something is clearly not right. it always happens when I'm reaching plat, then it pursues me until I'm back at gold 2.

 

I just want to say that I also experience this. Identically. It feels mechanical in nature almost. 

[jdawgie.1835]

7 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

There was the old heart of the mist change too, i wonder if it started then too.

I hate the new heart of the mists lol.