Make Sword of Justice a 'whirl' finisher — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Make Sword of Justice a 'whirl' finisher

mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited June 2, 2020 in Guardian

Would provide a lot of condi cleanse to team when properly comboed with light fields

Comments

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    Lan must be out of his mind if he thinks Guardian has the best cleanses. After Tome of Resolve getting utterly decimated, Guardian has okayish condi-clear.

    www.twitch.tv/arkryuken

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    What kind of post is this? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to land the skill on any competent player? One has to wonder where the thought-process is.

    www.twitch.tv/arkryuken

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's used currently in Wvw by burn guards and in PvE by every type of guard that isn't a support. As such I highly doubt it will get further improvements especially after spirit weapon reworks.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    SoJ does not need buffing. Nor does Guardian need more condi cleansing available to it. I get that thematically it looks like it should be a whirl finisher since the Spirit Weapon rework, but no.

    Well... it is not sPvP viable to begin with. 0.5 sec cast plus ~0.5 sec animation for it to start dealing damage. Wither it cleanses condi or not, you cannot rely on an AOE skill that lasts ~1.5 secs after 1 sec delay. Though, strongest guardian utility dps skill in PvE for all builds.

    If this skill is to ever be sPvP viable the cast time + animation have to be around 0.5 secs. The condi cleanse, while not bad, is not needed. Guardian is already loaded with AOE cleanses. This is redundant and would not give it viability. However, there are tons of other guardian utilities that are far in need of help over SoJ.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    do it. spirit weaps ftw.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arken.3725 said:
    What kind of post is this? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to land the skill on any competent player? One has to wonder where the thought-process is.

    What do you mean? I just thought it would be a good buff for folks that play condi guard variations (since they normally use this skill). I know it's difficult to land (I see on your stream where allies walk outside of your heals)

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arken.3725 said:
    Lan must be out of his mind if he thinks Guardian has the best cleanses. After Tome of Resolve getting utterly decimated, Guardian has okayish condi-clear.

    Did I say it has the best? No. I said that it did not need more. Want to whirl away in a light field? Grab a greatsword.

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    SoJ does not need buffing. Nor does Guardian need more condi cleansing available to it. I get that thematically it looks like it should be a whirl finisher since the Spirit Weapon rework, but no.

    Well... it is not sPvP viable to begin with. 0.5 sec cast plus ~0.5 sec animation for it to start dealing damage. Wither it cleanses condi or not, you cannot rely on an AOE skill that lasts ~1.5 secs after 1 sec delay. Though, strongest guardian utility dps skill in PvE for all builds.

    If this skill is to ever be sPvP viable the cast time + animation have to be around 0.5 secs. The condi cleanse, while not bad, is not needed. Guardian is already loaded with AOE cleanses. This is redundant and would not give it viability. However, there are tons of other guardian utilities that are far in need of help over SoJ.

    Pretty viable in WvW small scale. I nail people with it frequently, the cheese was so sharp that I had to lay it down and go back to my warrior. Hard to dodge if you're immobilized or already blew your dodges on other forms of cancer. That and if you are team fighting wait for a CC to stick before laying it down, use it to fish dodges out for your teammates to capitalize on, or best yet cleave on downs.

    SoJ is not the guardian skill that needs buffing.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Arken.3725 said:
    Lan must be out of his mind if he thinks Guardian has the best cleanses. After Tome of Resolve getting utterly decimated, Guardian has okayish condi-clear.

    Did I say it has the best? No. I said that it did not need more. Want to whirl away in a light field? Grab a greatsword.

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    SoJ does not need buffing. Nor does Guardian need more condi cleansing available to it. I get that thematically it looks like it should be a whirl finisher since the Spirit Weapon rework, but no.

    Well... it is not sPvP viable to begin with. 0.5 sec cast plus ~0.5 sec animation for it to start dealing damage. Wither it cleanses condi or not, you cannot rely on an AOE skill that lasts ~1.5 secs after 1 sec delay. Though, strongest guardian utility dps skill in PvE for all builds.

    If this skill is to ever be sPvP viable the cast time + animation have to be around 0.5 secs. The condi cleanse, while not bad, is not needed. Guardian is already loaded with AOE cleanses. This is redundant and would not give it viability. However, there are tons of other guardian utilities that are far in need of help over SoJ.

    Pretty viable in WvW small scale. I nail people with it frequently, the cheese was so sharp that I had to lay it down and go back to my warrior. Hard to dodge if you're immobilized or already blew your dodges on other forms of cancer. That and if you are team fighting wait for a CC to stick before laying it down, use it to fish dodges out for your teammates to capitalize on, or best yet cleave on downs.

    SoJ is not the guardian skill that needs buffing.

    I usually do not like to talk about WvW. It is blob. It makes me feel blob and all discussions about it end-up being blob.

    I agree SoJ does not need a buff. It works great in PvE and some blob PvP. Lets leave it there and focus on things that do not work, like:

    Concentrations.
    Other spectral weapons.
    Shouts (they do in PvE, but even there they are not optimal).
    Signets beside mercy in PvP.
    Also, mantra's in PvP. They went from being borderline OP to borderline useless, except the condi removal. The other ones (including the heal) are weak now.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would very much like more condition removal.
    There are way too many conditions being thrown around in pvp.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 3, 2020

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Arken.3725 said:
    Lan must be out of his mind if he thinks Guardian has the best cleanses. After Tome of Resolve getting utterly decimated, Guardian has okayish condi-clear.

    Did I say it has the best? No. I said that it did not need more. Want to whirl away in a light field? Grab a greatsword.

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    SoJ does not need buffing. Nor does Guardian need more condi cleansing available to it. I get that thematically it looks like it should be a whirl finisher since the Spirit Weapon rework, but no.

    Well... it is not sPvP viable to begin with. 0.5 sec cast plus ~0.5 sec animation for it to start dealing damage. Wither it cleanses condi or not, you cannot rely on an AOE skill that lasts ~1.5 secs after 1 sec delay. Though, strongest guardian utility dps skill in PvE for all builds.

    If this skill is to ever be sPvP viable the cast time + animation have to be around 0.5 secs. The condi cleanse, while not bad, is not needed. Guardian is already loaded with AOE cleanses. This is redundant and would not give it viability. However, there are tons of other guardian utilities that are far in need of help over SoJ.

    Pretty viable in WvW small scale. I nail people with it frequently, the cheese was so sharp that I had to lay it down and go back to my warrior. Hard to dodge if you're immobilized or already blew your dodges on other forms of cancer. That and if you are team fighting wait for a CC to stick before laying it down, use it to fish dodges out for your teammates to capitalize on, or best yet cleave on downs.

    SoJ is not the guardian skill that needs buffing.

    I usually do not like to talk about WvW. It is blob. It makes me feel blob and all discussions about it end-up being blob.

    I agree SoJ does not need a buff. It works great in PvE and some blob PvP. Lets leave it there and focus on things that do not work, like:

    Concentrations.
    Other spectral weapons.
    Shouts (they do in PvE, but even there they are not optimal).
    Signets beside mercy in PvP.
    Also, mantra's in PvP. They went from being borderline OP to borderline useless, except the condi removal. The other ones (including the heal) are weak now.

    I get your sentiment.

    On a X vs +5 scale SoJ is fairly potent. You can blindside someone with it, and control the battle field by directing people into no win scenarios with several forms of floor is lava that are on lowish CD.

    I find it pairs well with Shield of the Avenger rather than WoR.

    Bow of truth needs damage procs. Hammer needs to be quicker. Shield needs a weakness pulse + small damage pulse.

    Concentrations are either OP or stink depending on the game mode and situation.

    Shouts need something, like extra boons, but different ones per shout.

    Signets have their place and I don't think there is much to be done, other than shortening passive intervals.

    Mantras like other things on other classes got overnerfed.

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    Except it is incredibly weak as it is, sir. Like I said, anyone with a single brain-cell can easily avoid it. More needs to be adjusted but that skill definitely needs a buff. @mrauls.6519 I was agreeing with you.

    www.twitch.tv/arkryuken

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arken.3725 said:
    Except it is incredibly weak as it is, sir. Like I said, anyone with a single brain-cell can easily avoid it. More needs to be adjusted but that skill definitely needs a buff. @mrauls.6519 I was agreeing with you.

    You grossly overestimate the average player in competitive play... Also there are 4 charges, they have fewer dodges than that. They will burn. They always burn.

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    It's not about dodges, do an ingame test and you'll see what I mean when I say the cast-time in combination with the startup is long enough to where you can just walk out of it. It's very hard to land.

    www.twitch.tv/arkryuken

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arken.3725 said:
    It's not about dodges, do an ingame test and you'll see what I mean when I say the cast-time in combination with the startup is long enough to where you can just walk out of it. It's very hard to land.

    Yu speak as if Guards have no tools to lock down people so that they eat the full SoJ.
    People don't just drop SoJ on people all random, they time it as a burst together with Scepter 3, Signet of Wrath, Lesser Signet of Wrath, Firebrand's Weighty Terms.

    It's so easy to land SoJ on someone once yur Immobilize lands.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Saharo Gravewind.5120Saharo Gravewind.5120 Member ✭✭
    edited June 4, 2020

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Arken.3725 said:
    It's not about dodges, do an ingame test and you'll see what I mean when I say the cast-time in combination with the startup is long enough to where you can just walk out of it. It's very hard to land.

    Yu speak as if Guards have no tools to lock down people so that they eat the full SoJ.
    People don't just drop SoJ on people all random, they time it as a burst together with Scepter 3, Signet of Wrath, Lesser Signet of Wrath, Firebrand's Weighty Terms.

    It's so easy to land SoJ on someone once yur Immobilize lands.

    I'd argue it's easy to land lots of things once your immob lands.
    But is a 2 second immob long enough duration to make someone eat the entirety of a SoJ cast? The damage isn't even that good, and if you can only use it in select set ups I think it loses a lot of value.

    I heard it's getting popular to see burn guards running SoJ in P1/P2? I haven't seen any myself though.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Arken.3725 said:
    It's not about dodges, do an ingame test and you'll see what I mean when I say the cast-time in combination with the startup is long enough to where you can just walk out of it. It's very hard to land.

    Yu speak as if Guards have no tools to lock down people so that they eat the full SoJ.
    People don't just drop SoJ on people all random, they time it as a burst together with Scepter 3, Signet of Wrath, Lesser Signet of Wrath, Firebrand's Weighty Terms.

    It's so easy to land SoJ on someone once yur Immobilize lands.

    You just described silver sPvP. GL with that in P1+. There is a reason why you would never see SoJ in 1,500+ games.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 Concentrations, beside the reflect wall, in some PvE instances, there is not a place to use them. Surely not in sPvP. Even the burn one got phased out in favor of SoJ for condi builds.

    Shouts, I think they are close to some viability. I use Save Yourselves in OW PvE all the time. It is better than Bane Signet, unless you have 100% retaliation. If they reduce its CD by 10 secs it should be good in PvP. Feel my Wrath is PvE meta. It never will for PvP, and that is fine. Retreat base CD should be drastically reduced. Stand Your Ground was a good choice in many situations with 30 sec CD. 45 renders it useless. Hold the line is garbage. Again, could be good if CD is reduced by 10 secs. I have heard that receive the light is somewhat used in WvW. It is a terrible heal everywhere else. The honor trait should do something other than or on top of 1 condi removal.

    Signets, bane is okay. Mercy should lose the instant rez (all skills on all classes should). Wrath is used for passive in PvE. The heal is terrible. Long CD, long activation time and useless passive. The elite... has some uses. Signet of Judgment, useless. The active part is so underwhelming. They should either remove the burn or retaliation, while increasing what the left. Burn and retaliation never go together. And in such small quantities, they are obsolete. Perfect Inscriptions, they could increase the duration in PvP.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Arken.3725 said:
    It's not about dodges, do an ingame test and you'll see what I mean when I say the cast-time in combination with the startup is long enough to where you can just walk out of it. It's very hard to land.

    Yu speak as if Guards have no tools to lock down people so that they eat the full SoJ.
    People don't just drop SoJ on people all random, they time it as a burst together with Scepter 3, Signet of Wrath, Lesser Signet of Wrath, Firebrand's Weighty Terms.

    It's so easy to land SoJ on someone once yur Immobilize lands.

    You just described silver sPvP. GL with that in P1+. There is a reason why you would never see SoJ in 1,500+ games.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 Concentrations, beside the reflect wall, in some PvE instances, there is not a place to use them. Surely not in sPvP. Even the burn one got phased out in favor of SoJ for condi builds.

    They all have uses, they're just very situational. They are more usable in WvW, but other things are more important to take.

    Shouts, I think they are close to some viability. I use Save Yourselves in OW PvE all the time. It is better than Bane Signet, unless you have 100% retaliation. If they reduce its CD by 10 secs it should be good in PvP. Feel my Wrath is PvE meta. It never will for PvP, and that is fine. Retreat base CD should be drastically reduced. Stand Your Ground was a good choice in many situations with 30 sec CD. 45 renders it useless. Hold the line is garbage. Again, could be good if CD is reduced by 10 secs. I have heard that receive the light is somewhat used in WvW. It is a terrible heal everywhere else. The honor trait should do something other than or on top of 1 condi removal.

    Stand Your Ground is still a group stunbreak with group stab and group retaliation. The 45s CD was imposed for a reason. Although I agree that they made several CDs across the classes too long. Guardian shouts all feel like they take too long on CD to feel useful.

    Signets, bane is okay. Mercy should lose the instant rez (all skills on all classes should). Wrath is used for passive in PvE. The heal is terrible. Long CD, long activation time and useless passive. The elite... has some uses. Signet of Judgment, useless. The active part is so underwhelming. They should either remove the burn or retaliation, while increasing what the left. Burn and retaliation never go together. And in such small quantities, they are obsolete. Perfect Inscriptions, they could increase the duration in PvP.

    Mmm... I use the heal and elite just fine. But then I play DH and take a focus and thus have several means to cover the cast times, always feels good landing the group full heal in the middle of a tight fight. Not that I would complain if Anet did a pass over them to tweak them some.

  • Lonewolf Kai.3682Lonewolf Kai.3682 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I say let’s revert the whole spirit weapons back to AI skills! 😀

    No, really. I want them back. It was fun having an extra GS and Hammer with you.

    “Be like water”-Bruce Lee

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:
    I say let’s revert the whole spirit weapons back to AI skills! 😀

    No, really. I want them back. It was fun having an extra GS and Hammer with you.

    I 100% agree, make Eternal Armory give them an increased attack speed and burn when they hit. I legit liked having them float around behind me. The command skill for them should still be the ground targeted versions now though. Let Eternal Armory still give the command skill an extra cast before the weapon is de-summoned.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:
    I say let’s revert the whole spirit weapons back to AI skills! 😀

    No, really. I want them back. It was fun having an extra GS and Hammer with you.

    I 100% agree, make Eternal Armory give them an increased attack speed and burn when they hit. I legit liked having them float around behind me. The command skill for them should still be the ground targeted versions now though. Let Eternal Armory still give the command skill an extra cast before the weapon is de-summoned.

    It sounds cooler for sure, but were they destructible? In the AoE spam fest that is WvW, Guardian wouldn't be better off with their own version of an engy turret or warband spirit....course then ANET might classify Spirit Weapons as 'wells' huehue

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:
    I say let’s revert the whole spirit weapons back to AI skills! 😀

    No, really. I want them back. It was fun having an extra GS and Hammer with you.

    I 100% agree, make Eternal Armory give them an increased attack speed and burn when they hit. I legit liked having them float around behind me. The command skill for them should still be the ground targeted versions now though. Let Eternal Armory still give the command skill an extra cast before the weapon is de-summoned.

    It sounds cooler for sure, but were they destructible? In the AoE spam fest that is WvW, Guardian wouldn't be better off with their own version of an engy turret or warband spirit....course then ANET might classify Spirit Weapons as 'wells' huehue

    Sure why not. Lets make them wells.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:
    I say let’s revert the whole spirit weapons back to AI skills! 😀

    No, really. I want them back. It was fun having an extra GS and Hammer with you.

    I 100% agree, make Eternal Armory give them an increased attack speed and burn when they hit. I legit liked having them float around behind me. The command skill for them should still be the ground targeted versions now though. Let Eternal Armory still give the command skill an extra cast before the weapon is de-summoned.

    It sounds cooler for sure, but were they destructible? In the AoE spam fest that is WvW, Guardian wouldn't be better off with their own version of an engy turret or warband spirit....course then ANET might classify Spirit Weapons as 'wells' huehue

    Sure why not. Lets make them wells.

    And then after players get defeated by Guards running Rune of the Chronomancer, we'll see more threads like: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104905/please-remove-rune-of-trapper

    :trollface:

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:
    I say let’s revert the whole spirit weapons back to AI skills! 😀

    No, really. I want them back. It was fun having an extra GS and Hammer with you.

    I 100% agree, make Eternal Armory give them an increased attack speed and burn when they hit. I legit liked having them float around behind me. The command skill for them should still be the ground targeted versions now though. Let Eternal Armory still give the command skill an extra cast before the weapon is de-summoned.

    It sounds cooler for sure, but were they destructible? In the AoE spam fest that is WvW, Guardian wouldn't be better off with their own version of an engy turret or warband spirit....course then ANET might classify Spirit Weapons as 'wells' huehue

    Sure why not. Lets make them wells.

    And then after players get defeated by Guards running Rune of the Chronomancer, we'll see more threads like: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104905/please-remove-rune-of-trapper

    :trollface:

    :trollface: I thought of that as soon as you mentioned wells lol.

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    You still won't( in conquest) since you'll still be terribly slow. Lynx will be a guardian necessity for a long time :(

    www.twitch.tv/arkryuken

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Arken.3725 said:
    It's not about dodges, do an ingame test and you'll see what I mean when I say the cast-time in combination with the startup is long enough to where you can just walk out of it. It's very hard to land.

    Yu speak as if Guards have no tools to lock down people so that they eat the full SoJ.
    People don't just drop SoJ on people all random, they time it as a burst together with Scepter 3, Signet of Wrath, Lesser Signet of Wrath, Firebrand's Weighty Terms.

    It's so easy to land SoJ on someone once yur Immobilize lands.

    You just described silver sPvP. GL with that in P1+. There is a reason why you would never see SoJ in 1,500+ games.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 Concentrations, beside the reflect wall, in some PvE instances, there is not a place to use them. Surely not in sPvP. Even the burn one got phased out in favor of SoJ for condi builds.

    Shouts, I think they are close to some viability. I use Save Yourselves in OW PvE all the time. It is better than Bane Signet, unless you have 100% retaliation. If they reduce its CD by 10 secs it should be good in PvP. Feel my Wrath is PvE meta. It never will for PvP, and that is fine. Retreat base CD should be drastically reduced. Stand Your Ground was a good choice in many situations with 30 sec CD. 45 renders it useless. Hold the line is garbage. Again, could be good if CD is reduced by 10 secs. I have heard that receive the light is somewhat used in WvW. It is a terrible heal everywhere else. The honor trait should do something other than or on top of 1 condi removal.

    Signets, bane is okay. Mercy should lose the instant rez (all skills on all classes should). Wrath is used for passive in PvE. The heal is terrible. Long CD, long activation time and useless passive. The elite... has some uses. Signet of Judgment, useless. The active part is so underwhelming. They should either remove the burn or retaliation, while increasing what the left. Burn and retaliation never go together. And in such small quantities, they are obsolete. Perfect Inscriptions, they could increase the duration in PvP.

    there is a guy with 5 accs in legend using soj and mutiple guards in p3 using it
    not saying you land every soj but its 4 charges, 16 cd and does like average 10k dmg its insane

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Arken.3725 said:
    It's not about dodges, do an ingame test and you'll see what I mean when I say the cast-time in combination with the startup is long enough to where you can just walk out of it. It's very hard to land.

    Yu speak as if Guards have no tools to lock down people so that they eat the full SoJ.
    People don't just drop SoJ on people all random, they time it as a burst together with Scepter 3, Signet of Wrath, Lesser Signet of Wrath, Firebrand's Weighty Terms.

    It's so easy to land SoJ on someone once yur Immobilize lands.

    You just described silver sPvP. GL with that in P1+. There is a reason why you would never see SoJ in 1,500+ games.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 Concentrations, beside the reflect wall, in some PvE instances, there is not a place to use them. Surely not in sPvP. Even the burn one got phased out in favor of SoJ for condi builds.

    Shouts, I think they are close to some viability. I use Save Yourselves in OW PvE all the time. It is better than Bane Signet, unless you have 100% retaliation. If they reduce its CD by 10 secs it should be good in PvP. Feel my Wrath is PvE meta. It never will for PvP, and that is fine. Retreat base CD should be drastically reduced. Stand Your Ground was a good choice in many situations with 30 sec CD. 45 renders it useless. Hold the line is garbage. Again, could be good if CD is reduced by 10 secs. I have heard that receive the light is somewhat used in WvW. It is a terrible heal everywhere else. The honor trait should do something other than or on top of 1 condi removal.

    Signets, bane is okay. Mercy should lose the instant rez (all skills on all classes should). Wrath is used for passive in PvE. The heal is terrible. Long CD, long activation time and useless passive. The elite... has some uses. Signet of Judgment, useless. The active part is so underwhelming. They should either remove the burn or retaliation, while increasing what the left. Burn and retaliation never go together. And in such small quantities, they are obsolete. Perfect Inscriptions, they could increase the duration in PvP.

    there is a guy with 5 accs in legend using soj and mutiple guards in p3 using it
    not saying you land every soj but its 4 charges, 16 cd and does like average 10k dmg its insane

    Not like leading a target isn't a thing either.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2020

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    Not like leading a target isn't a thing either.

    Not like having teammates to help lockdown opponents, or Conquest literally forcing people to contest nodes isn't a thing either.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Arken.3725 said:
    It's not about dodges, do an ingame test and you'll see what I mean when I say the cast-time in combination with the startup is long enough to where you can just walk out of it. It's very hard to land.

    Yu speak as if Guards have no tools to lock down people so that they eat the full SoJ.
    People don't just drop SoJ on people all random, they time it as a burst together with Scepter 3, Signet of Wrath, Lesser Signet of Wrath, Firebrand's Weighty Terms.

    It's so easy to land SoJ on someone once yur Immobilize lands.

    You just described silver sPvP. GL with that in P1+. There is a reason why you would never see SoJ in 1,500+ games.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 Concentrations, beside the reflect wall, in some PvE instances, there is not a place to use them. Surely not in sPvP. Even the burn one got phased out in favor of SoJ for condi builds.

    They all have uses, they're just very situational. They are more usable in WvW, but other things are more important to take.

    Shouts, I think they are close to some viability. I use Save Yourselves in OW PvE all the time. It is better than Bane Signet, unless you have 100% retaliation. If they reduce its CD by 10 secs it should be good in PvP. Feel my Wrath is PvE meta. It never will for PvP, and that is fine. Retreat base CD should be drastically reduced. Stand Your Ground was a good choice in many situations with 30 sec CD. 45 renders it useless. Hold the line is garbage. Again, could be good if CD is reduced by 10 secs. I have heard that receive the light is somewhat used in WvW. It is a terrible heal everywhere else. The honor trait should do something other than or on top of 1 condi removal.

    Stand Your Ground is still a group stunbreak with group stab and group retaliation. The 45s CD was imposed for a reason. Although I agree that they made several CDs across the classes too long. Guardian shouts all feel like they take too long on CD to feel useful.

    Signets, bane is okay. Mercy should lose the instant rez (all skills on all classes should). Wrath is used for passive in PvE. The heal is terrible. Long CD, long activation time and useless passive. The elite... has some uses. Signet of Judgment, useless. The active part is so underwhelming. They should either remove the burn or retaliation, while increasing what the left. Burn and retaliation never go together. And in such small quantities, they are obsolete. Perfect Inscriptions, they could increase the duration in PvP.

    Mmm... I use the heal and elite just fine. But then I play DH and take a focus and thus have several means to cover the cast times, always feels good landing the group full heal in the middle of a tight fight. Not that I would complain if Anet did a pass over them to tweak them some.

    Btw, for the heal mantra I was referring to the heal skill not the elite. I do not think the elite is bad. The heal definitely is, in every context, and always was.

    As for Stand you Ground in sPvP, most builds did not slot it pre the Feb patch. I was one of the few people who preferred it over JI on power core (smite and CoP are a must). But I play weird builds. I used to play zeal/radiance/valor in core hay day, when everyone used virtues instead of zeal. Core power as a whole is not PvP viable now. The zeal variant in particular is absolutely dead. And there are significantly better utilities to use on every build. At 30 secs it was in contention for a slot. There is not any possible sPvP build that would consider it nowadays.

    I know this drifted away from SoJ.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Arken.3725 said:
    It's not about dodges, do an ingame test and you'll see what I mean when I say the cast-time in combination with the startup is long enough to where you can just walk out of it. It's very hard to land.

    Yu speak as if Guards have no tools to lock down people so that they eat the full SoJ.
    People don't just drop SoJ on people all random, they time it as a burst together with Scepter 3, Signet of Wrath, Lesser Signet of Wrath, Firebrand's Weighty Terms.

    It's so easy to land SoJ on someone once yur Immobilize lands.

    You just described silver sPvP. GL with that in P1+. There is a reason why you would never see SoJ in 1,500+ games.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 Concentrations, beside the reflect wall, in some PvE instances, there is not a place to use them. Surely not in sPvP. Even the burn one got phased out in favor of SoJ for condi builds.

    They all have uses, they're just very situational. They are more usable in WvW, but other things are more important to take.

    Shouts, I think they are close to some viability. I use Save Yourselves in OW PvE all the time. It is better than Bane Signet, unless you have 100% retaliation. If they reduce its CD by 10 secs it should be good in PvP. Feel my Wrath is PvE meta. It never will for PvP, and that is fine. Retreat base CD should be drastically reduced. Stand Your Ground was a good choice in many situations with 30 sec CD. 45 renders it useless. Hold the line is garbage. Again, could be good if CD is reduced by 10 secs. I have heard that receive the light is somewhat used in WvW. It is a terrible heal everywhere else. The honor trait should do something other than or on top of 1 condi removal.

    Stand Your Ground is still a group stunbreak with group stab and group retaliation. The 45s CD was imposed for a reason. Although I agree that they made several CDs across the classes too long. Guardian shouts all feel like they take too long on CD to feel useful.

    Signets, bane is okay. Mercy should lose the instant rez (all skills on all classes should). Wrath is used for passive in PvE. The heal is terrible. Long CD, long activation time and useless passive. The elite... has some uses. Signet of Judgment, useless. The active part is so underwhelming. They should either remove the burn or retaliation, while increasing what the left. Burn and retaliation never go together. And in such small quantities, they are obsolete. Perfect Inscriptions, they could increase the duration in PvP.

    Mmm... I use the heal and elite just fine. But then I play DH and take a focus and thus have several means to cover the cast times, always feels good landing the group full heal in the middle of a tight fight. Not that I would complain if Anet did a pass over them to tweak them some.

    Btw, for the heal mantra I was referring to the heal skill not the elite. I do not think the elite is bad. The heal definitely is, in every context, and always was.

    Ah I thought you were talking about the signets. Heal mantra is garbage.

    As for Stand you Ground in sPvP, most builds did not slot it pre the Feb patch. I was one of the few people who preferred it over JI on power core (smite and CoP are a must). But I play weird builds. I used to play zeal/radiance/valor in core hay day, when everyone used virtues instead of zeal. Core power as a whole is not PvP viable now. The zeal variant in particular is absolutely dead. And there are significantly better utilities to use on every build. At 30 secs it was in contention for a slot. There is not any possible sPvP build that would consider it nowadays.

    I know this drifted away from SoJ.

    Significantly drifted.

  • RUNICBLACK.7630RUNICBLACK.7630 Member ✭✭✭

    It may have drifted but at least it's still constructive and civil so please carry on , it's really enjoyable reading a conversation like this where issues are actually discussed and it doesn't devolve into a bunch of name calling etc.

    Life before Death
    Strength before Weakness
    Journey before Destination
    stormlightarchive.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Words

  • Arken.3725Arken.3725 Member ✭✭✭

    Your face....jk.

    In response to leading targets and fighting over points, all points are the size of 240, if not bigger than SoJ so it's still avoidable. Also, I'm still recommending people to see how hard it is to land and that leading someone into it is still insanely difficult due to the issues I stated earlier.

    www.twitch.tv/arkryuken