Why Thief roaming players. Give people a bad impression. Is it caused by infinite stealth stacking? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why Thief roaming players. Give people a bad impression. Is it caused by infinite stealth stacking?

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  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The only reason I've ever hated Thief in WvW is ever since they gave them Shadow Portal.

    Nothing is more infuriating than a DE is endlessly Stealthed in inner keep only to open a free path into the keep minutes later for a easy cap without defenders even realising they were around.

    Even if yu realise there is a DE in the keep, they are extremely difficult to catch because of all their stealth applications and 2 charges of revealed removal.

    Yu can literally blanket the entire inner with Reveal skills and not find the DE.

    This is why these days it's pretty much a MUST to slot and activate Radar upon capping a Keep, just for the primary reason of outting pest like DEs still hiding.

    And doing so prevents other useful anti siege tactics to be slotted in its place.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2020

    @Flee.5602 its just thiefs doing their job. if i get klilled by a thief, he probably outplayed / countered my defensive skills.

    I dont see any wrong in that... but stealth needs improvements positively and a trade off, i would mostly needs some fixes.

    on second note stealth works as it is due game nature everyhing is mostly aoe spam.

    Due the way m8 be coded, impact on server if changed, IMO alot of the game needs to change or the new future stuff needs to set up stable before any touch on stealth happens.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭

    Dodge and evade spam. It's so annoying that one class doesn't even need to think when to use dodge. Just spam it whole time.

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Why thieves are hated?

    1-Dagger/pistol
    2-Deadeye
    3- Sword/dagger
    4- Plethora of stunbreaks, steal acting as a stunbreak
    5- Broken mobility
    6- Stealth camping
    7-Abusive behavior of players using thief
    8- Griefing class design

    Really the reasons why people hate thieves are too numerous to count, nobody would miss thief if it would get deleted tomorrow from the game...nobody except those playing it

    Lmao yes delete it, always a good idea especially given the game already very low pvp population so losing a large sum more would be so very healthy for the game.
    Oh look another classes ur calling out as op, what a surprise :).

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2020

    @Junkpile.7439 said:
    Dodge and evade spam. It's so annoying that one class doesn't even need to think when to use dodge. Just spam it whole time.

    Thre staff acro builds? yead but needs game is so much based in aoe spam red rings all over the floor, that classes need to have that gimmick or be that strong :\
    It was the way Anet tough daredevil could be balanced against all the spam.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2020

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    That said, I am not even playing for 5 yrs, so I can't even complain that long about this mind boggling stupid mechanic that should have never been introduced into the game.

    ... And yet that is ALL YOU EVER DO HERE!?

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭

    the easy answer about "How to deal with thieves in wvw": ignore them. they are there for the cheap kills, if you walk with your group and stay around tag, thieves cannot engage you, unless ur not capable of pulling your heals and the rest of your people sleeps to. 95% ends with 2 downed daredevils hatemailing someone in the squad.

    like during the last like 3000 kills i maybe if even died to one thief that caught me afking on warclaw. (demount daze and no armor at all, warclaw is such trash really.)

  • Vlad Morbius.1759Vlad Morbius.1759 Member ✭✭✭

    Thieves are considered bottom feeders in every game because of issues like this, poke, poke run away run away. It's a cancerous class period.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Heibi.4251 said:
    Yep my stealth/thief adjustments that I have always said need to be implemented are:
    1. When stealhted you must move at walk speed in order to be "stealthy".
    2. No spiking from stealth.
    3. No stealthing while in combat. Blinding is one thing but going invis is completely different.
    4. Longer cooldowns on stealth - much longer.
    5. Once revealed you stay revealed until timer is gone - i.e. Target Painters - no traiting to insta-re-stealth and ignore certain mechanics.
    6. Portal should be changed to thief only - period. The current meta is completely unbalanced. Also the timing needs to be adjusted. It should be just like the mesmer portal timing. Right now a thief can drop the portal and run away for almost a minute then port back and drop another immediately.
    7. While in keeps that have just flipped you cannot stealth. Currently you can stealth and your dot vanishes and you are NOT MARKED. And with the ridiculous stealth stacking you can stay stealthed for a very long time - nearly permanent(with tiny visible windows.)

    You could have just said "I want stealth to be completely unusable and so much of a troll pick its worth reporting", and you wouldve saved a lot of space there.

    @Heibi.4251 that goes all against to what this game classes design goes for, thief is as it is cause its a way to balance agains the aoe/cleave spam, woudl agree with u if this game skills were more towards 1 on 1.. but it isnt.

    IF theres changes in future i would like to see some skills/traits usable or more efective only on stealth like steal, with diminuishing return using them out of stealth.
    That would make the class slightly more organized and force players to be more tactical.

  • Sleepwalker.1398Sleepwalker.1398 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just find it so funny that so many are playing Daredevil with 3 dodges and yet mirage has to relay on energy sigils.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2020

    @Sleepwalker.1398 said:
    I just find it so funny that so many are playing Daredevil with 3 dodges and yet mirage has to relay on energy sigils.

    Mirage never should have tied ambushes to dodge, period. Ambushes should have replaced the shatter mechanics for F1 and F2.

    The rest of it is the massive trolling against the class by a large group of people that can't learn to play.

    And if they removed stealth from thieves, they better get a LOT more dodges/evade skills, because stealth is a large part of their defense kit. Their armor is slightly tougher paper and hit points are down there with Eles.

    Honestly, at this point I am so tired of the whining and crying and people's instability to learn to play or tab-target or stunbreak or condi cleanse, that I think this is what we should do:

    1. Remove Stealth entirely. All skills that applied stealth applies blind to enemies in 360 units.
    2. Condense all the boons down to 1 boon - AWESOME! And it just gives all the kitten at once.
    3. Condense all the conditions down to 1 condition - SUCK! and it just gives all the kitten but blind at once.
    4. Remove all the Attributes. Reduce them down to HIT, SOAK, AND HP. Done! Super easy for the blueberries to get.

    There you all go, can you all learn to play now? Such build variety, very wow!

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Mokk.2397Mokk.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    Most thieves are just lousy players because they use stealth as a crutch. Throw a target painter on them and they just run away and if they don't they die fast because they don't know how to fight without stealth.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mokk.2397 said:
    Most thieves are just lousy players because they use stealth as a crutch. Throw a target painter on them and they just run away and if they don't they die fast because they don't know how to fight without stealth.

    It’s my new favorite past time during roaming tbh. I notice someone target painted me and then I destroy them anyway because my build isn’t designed around long duration stealth.

    But to be fair, if you run a stealth based build for defense and the enemy uses an auto reveal item it is completely legitimate to retreat until the Mark timer is up. If a item is fair to use against steathing opponents then mobility and retreat are perfectly acceptable counterplay in my eyes. You call stealth a crutch but it’s part of the basic class design for avoiding damage.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If they're so overpowered why are there so few left playing?

    Must be an honor thing.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Rekt.5360Rekt.5360 Member ✭✭

    Not to derail the thread, but this seems like a good opportunity to ask. So I came back a few weeks ago from a 5yr break and obviously have no clue how to fight half the new builds, barring the ones that barely changed since HoT. That being said, as a power warrior, how would I deal with DEs who run near perma stealth builds with rifle? Right now I mostly just roam to get more experience fighting new builds but I see a reaaaally high amount of Rifle DEs, sometimes running in groups of 2-3, that obviously never stick around to duel after the obvious gank. S/D and D/P are builds I've fought a lot in the past but their playstyles still revolve around melee so I can punish them., and unlike rifle DEs many of them commit to fights they begin (rather than pop stealth when they get under 40% and just leave). Any tips appreciated.

  • Jabronee.9465Jabronee.9465 Member ✭✭
    edited June 18, 2020

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    If they're so overpowered why are there so few left playing?

    Must be an honor thing.

    Not an honor thing to me. Maybe for most thieves as they find great honor in using Stealth as an advantage for success.
    I play my DE not for honor. I play it cause i have no choice but to abuse the stealth plus high mobilities and of course high dps. In short its not high risk high reward class if you play it more. Its the opposite.
    I love playing Necro in every mmos but I'm forced by Anet to play thieves due to its mechanics.
    O trust me we are around mostly unseen ofc lol. Depends of which servers they are on and time.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rekt.5360 said:
    Not to derail the thread, but this seems like a good opportunity to ask. So I came back a few weeks ago from a 5yr break and obviously have no clue how to fight half the new builds, barring the ones that barely changed since HoT. That being said, as a power warrior, how would I deal with DEs who run near perma stealth builds with rifle? Right now I mostly just roam to get more experience fighting new builds but I see a reaaaally high amount of Rifle DEs, sometimes running in groups of 2-3, that obviously never stick around to duel after the obvious gank. S/D and D/P are builds I've fought a lot in the past but their playstyles still revolve around melee so I can punish them., and unlike rifle DEs many of them commit to fights they begin (rather than pop stealth when they get under 40% and just leave). Any tips appreciated.

    Rifle Warrior is effective. If they are permastealth kite them out to force them to chase.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jabronee.9465 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    If they're so overpowered why are there so few left playing?

    Must be an honor thing.

    Not an honor thing to me. Maybe for most thieves as they find great honor in using Stealth as an advantage for success.
    I play my DE not for honor. I play it cause i have no choice but to abuse the stealth plus high mobilities and of course high dps. In short its not high risk high reward class if you play it more. Its the opposite.
    I love playing Necro in every mmos but I'm forced by Anet to play thieves due to its mechanics.
    O trust me they are around mostly unseen ofc lol. Depends of which servers they are on and time.

    Man.. that stinks.

    I am soo glad Anet let’s me choose which class I get to play.

    Here’s hoping they finally allow you to play a class you like.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jabronee.9465 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    If they're so overpowered why are there so few left playing?

    Must be an honor thing.

    Not an honor thing to me. Maybe for most thieves as they find great honor in using Stealth as an advantage for success.
    I play my DE not for honor. I play it cause i have no choice but to abuse the stealth plus high mobilities and of course high dps. In short its not high risk high reward class if you play it more. Its the opposite.
    I love playing Necro in every mmos but I'm forced by Anet to play thieves due to its mechanics.
    O trust me we are around mostly unseen ofc lol. Depends of which servers they are on and time.

    I dual main reaper and thief. Necro is by far the stronger class right now for anything outside of PvE.

    There are very few thieves I lose to on reaper, and when I do, it's usually due to an incredibly low starting LF and because they're just better players. Necro has access to shadowsteps as well and Holts put out some great information for necro on building to utterly destroy most roaming classes/specs. I've taught more than a handful of people how to win reaper vs thief even when Daredevil was considered OP and before Reaper's damage was buffed to make the class much easier to kill people with.

    I'm going to be very blunt right now and say that in most instances as of today, necro vs thief is a matchup where the win is determined more heavily by the better player at their respective class moreso than build or class than ever before. A lot of times, the people complaining are just a lot worse than they believe.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jabronee.9465 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    If they're so overpowered why are there so few left playing?

    Must be an honor thing.

    Not an honor thing to me. Maybe for most thieves as they find great honor in using Stealth as an advantage for success.
    I play my DE not for honor. I play it cause i have no choice but to abuse the stealth plus high mobilities and of course high dps. In short its not high risk high reward class if you play it more. Its the opposite.
    I love playing Necro in every mmos but I'm forced by Anet to play thieves due to its mechanics.
    O trust me we are around mostly unseen ofc lol. Depends of which servers they are on and time.

    Pfft I meant all those people who know how overpowered thief is but choose to make poor, weak Necro variants the most played class in WvW.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @Jabronee.9465 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    If they're so overpowered why are there so few left playing?

    Must be an honor thing.

    Not an honor thing to me. Maybe for most thieves as they find great honor in using Stealth as an advantage for success.
    I play my DE not for honor. I play it cause i have no choice but to abuse the stealth plus high mobilities and of course high dps. In short its not high risk high reward class if you play it more. Its the opposite.
    I love playing Necro in every mmos but I'm forced by Anet to play thieves due to its mechanics.
    O trust me we are around mostly unseen ofc lol. Depends of which servers they are on and time.

    I dual main reaper and thief. Necro is by far the stronger class right now for anything outside of PvE.

    There are very few thieves I lose to on reaper, and when I do, it's usually due to an incredibly low starting LF and because they're just better players. Necro has access to shadowsteps as well and Holts put out some great information for necro on building to utterly destroy most roaming classes/specs. I've taught more than a handful of people how to win reaper vs thief even when Daredevil was considered OP and before Reaper's damage was buffed to make the class much easier to kill people with.

    I'm going to be very blunt right now and say that in most instances as of today, necro vs thief is a matchup where the win is determined more heavily by the better player at their respective class moreso than build or class than ever before. A lot of times, the people complaining are just a lot worse than they believe.

    I guess those thieves you mentioned in general are those who dont disengage when losing to a core necro/reaper. Or its pvp where point capping is the deal. Smart wvw thieves will disengage and come back unseen. Rinse and repeat. Thats how we thieves play wvw fyi. And scourge portal and reapers death charge and pulls can catch a thief? lol I have nothing else to say if you believe so.

  • Mokk.2397Mokk.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    @saerni.2584 said:

    @Mokk.2397 said:
    Most thieves are just lousy players because they use stealth as a crutch. Throw a target painter on them and they just run away and if they don't they die fast because they don't know how to fight without stealth.

    It’s my new favorite past time during roaming tbh. I notice someone target painted me and then I destroy them anyway because my build isn’t designed around long duration stealth.

    But to be fair, if you run a stealth based build for defense and the enemy uses an auto reveal item it is completely legitimate to retreat until the Mark timer is up. If a item is fair to use against steathing opponents then mobility and retreat are perfectly acceptable counterplay in my eyes. You call stealth a crutch but it’s part of the basic class design for avoiding damage.

    You misinterpreted what I said . I did not say stealth was a crutch. I said stealth is USED as crutch by lousy players. I agree that some are very capable of fighting without it but the majority don't.

  • Jabronee.9465Jabronee.9465 Member ✭✭
    edited June 19, 2020

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Jabronee.9465 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    If they're so overpowered why are there so few left playing?

    Must be an honor thing.

    Not an honor thing to me. Maybe for most thieves as they find great honor in using Stealth as an advantage for success.
    I play my DE not for honor. I play it cause i have no choice but to abuse the stealth plus high mobilities and of course high dps. In short its not high risk high reward class if you play it more. Its the opposite.
    I love playing Necro in every mmos but I'm forced by Anet to play thieves due to its mechanics.
    O trust me we are around mostly unseen ofc lol. Depends of which servers they are on and time.

    Pfft I meant all those people who know how overpowered thief is but choose to make poor, weak Necro variants the most played class in WvW.

    lol they know thieves are overpowered but they choose to make weak necro variants? Its like saying Atom Bombs in WWII is overpowered so lets counter that with Hand Grenades. Cmon brah GW2 players aint fools.

  • Mikhael.2391Mikhael.2391 Member ✭✭✭

    @Flee.5602 said:
    Enter stealth. Arenanet Why not give a certain degree of negative status. As a price to enter stealth.
    For example: entering stealth will get Cripple and Weakness

    Better even, attacks from stealth do less 50% damage.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For example: entering stealth will get Cripple and Weakness
    Better even, attacks from stealth do less 50% damage.

    Blocks allow 50% power and condi dmg through, and roots player. That's kind of what it sounds like comparably lol.

  • @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Jabronee.9465 said:
    Cmon brah GW2 players aint fools.

    We never stop hearing about thief's need for nerfs, but on an average map there's a dozen necros per thief. Must be some explanation why people choose the weaker class...

    Isn't it obvios why we cant see the thieves? (facepalm)
    And its obvious too why we could see dozens of necros too as they are needed for blobs especially. Plus they have no access to.... Bah nevermind you'll figure it out someday.

  • cobbah.3102cobbah.3102 Member ✭✭✭

    Just delete stealth and go from there !!

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2020

    @Jabronee.9465 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Jabronee.9465 said:
    Cmon brah GW2 players aint fools.

    We never stop hearing about thief's need for nerfs, but on an average map there's a dozen necros per thief. Must be some explanation why people choose the weaker class...

    Isn't it obvios why we cant see the thieves? (facepalm)
    And its obvious too why we could see dozens of necros too as they are needed for blobs especially. Plus they have no access to.... Bah nevermind you'll figure it out someday.

    You should be able to see and hear the smoke fields, right? But No no, go ahead, continue.

    It's true though, there are hardly any thieves compared to necs or other classes. I mean you may get a grp like SA or other gank grps but most roaming grps dont even use thief anymore but have necros in them with pocket healers lol

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2020

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Jabronee.9465 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    If they're so overpowered why are there so few left playing?

    Must be an honor thing.

    Not an honor thing to me. Maybe for most thieves as they find great honor in using Stealth as an advantage for success.
    I play my DE not for honor. I play it cause i have no choice but to abuse the stealth plus high mobilities and of course high dps. In short its not high risk high reward class if you play it more. Its the opposite.
    I love playing Necro in every mmos but I'm forced by Anet to play thieves due to its mechanics.
    O trust me we are around mostly unseen ofc lol. Depends of which servers they are on and time.

    Pfft I meant all those people who know how overpowered thief is but choose to make poor, weak Necro variants the most played class in WvW.

    100% this^ sure as hell not 20 necros for every 1 thief in wvw cuz thief is strong and necro weak lol. Prob more necro/specs even in pvp now then thief.

  • Rivid.9628Rivid.9628 Member ✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    The only reason I've ever hated Thief in WvW is ever since they gave them Shadow Portal.

    Nothing is more infuriating than a DE is endlessly Stealthed in inner keep only to open a free path into the keep minutes later for a easy cap without defenders even realising they were around.

    Even if yu realise there is a DE in the keep, they are extremely difficult to catch because of all their stealth applications and 2 charges of revealed removal.

    Yu can literally blanket the entire inner with Reveal skills and not find the DE.

    This is why these days it's pretty much a MUST to slot and activate Radar upon capping a Keep, just for the primary reason of outting pest like DEs still hiding.

    And doing so prevents other useful anti siege tactics to be slotted in its place.

    In all honesty, I find this method to be more of a balance, as it's about providing opportunity to small groups and servers with a lower active population in WvW that can't fend against servers that have a high active population.

  • Rivid.9628Rivid.9628 Member ✭✭

    Get rid of stealth for all I care, as long as I have blind, poison, steal boons, and shadowstep I can still mess you up.

  • @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Jabronee.9465 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Jabronee.9465 said:
    Cmon brah GW2 players aint fools.

    We never stop hearing about thief's need for nerfs, but on an average map there's a dozen necros per thief. Must be some explanation why people choose the weaker class...

    Isn't it obvios why we cant see the thieves? (facepalm)

    Your teammates are also invisible to you?
    Facepalm indeed.

    In wvw you are only talking about yr team? (Double Facepalm). So if there are no thief in my squad it should also mean less to no thieves on the opposing server? lolz.

    And its obvious too why we could see dozens of necros too as they are needed for blobs especially.

    And why are they needed?
    Just what is it that they bring to the table?
    Careful now...

    If you dont understand my previous reply you have no worries as you are forgiven.

  • Jabronee.9465Jabronee.9465 Member ✭✭
    edited June 19, 2020

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Jabronee.9465 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Jabronee.9465 said:
    Cmon brah GW2 players aint fools.

    We never stop hearing about thief's need for nerfs, but on an average map there's a dozen necros per thief. Must be some explanation why people choose the weaker class...

    Isn't it obvios why we cant see the thieves? (facepalm)
    And its obvious too why we could see dozens of necros too as they are needed for blobs especially. Plus they have no access to.... Bah nevermind you'll figure it out someday.

    You should be able to see and hear the smoke fields, right? But No no, go ahead, continue.

    Ah i see. I guess other classes running around maps looking for smoke fields to count how many thieves. Great tactics brah. I have to salute you. Twice!

    It's true though, there are hardly any thieves compared to necs or other classes. I mean you may get a grp like SA or other gank grps but most roaming grps dont even use thief anymore but have necros in them with pocket healers lol

    Most roaming groups on your server or on other servers? NA or EU? I guess you have accounts on every servers on both NA and EU. A true dedicated fan indeed!

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My expectations were low but holy pete

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jabronee.9465 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @Jabronee.9465 said:

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Jabronee.9465 said:
    Cmon brah GW2 players aint fools.

    We never stop hearing about thief's need for nerfs, but on an average map there's a dozen necros per thief. Must be some explanation why people choose the weaker class...

    Isn't it obvios why we cant see the thieves? (facepalm)
    And its obvious too why we could see dozens of necros too as they are needed for blobs especially. Plus they have no access to.... Bah nevermind you'll figure it out someday.

    You should be able to see and hear the smoke fields, right? But No no, go ahead, continue.

    Ah i see. I guess other classes running around maps looking for smoke fields to count how many thieves. Great tactics brah. I have to salute you. Twice!

    It's true though, there are hardly any thieves compared to necs or other classes. I mean you may get a grp like SA or other gank grps but most roaming grps dont even use thief anymore but have necros in them with pocket healers lol

    Most roaming groups on your server or on other servers? NA or EU? I guess you have accounts on every servers on both NA and EU. A true dedicated fan indeed!

    Good god, you must hate thieves with a passion lol. EU servers and all servers have grps like this. I guess to u wouldnt know as you're safely tucked up inside a zerg spamming #1

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    7. Weapon skills require a target to use (including spirit weapons and wells/shades). This prevents spamming marks/aoe's to tag stealthers and remove stealth. Traps would still put the stealther in combat and remove stealth (maybe a specific few). All skills would require line of sight to use. No more rev porting through obstacles or barrage shots over walls. This would also make walls usable for defenders, since now spamming aoe's on walls would give you "no line of sight to target", or "out of range". Siege damage would not remove stealth, except the arrow cart skill.

    Only putting AOEs on your target kinda-sorta worked in GW1 because players moved slowly. It would be absolutely terrible in this game. All this to "fix" "stealth" by copying WoW's goofy slow-moving perma-stealth gameplay. :confused:

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    7. Weapon skills require a target to use (including spirit weapons and wells/shades). This prevents spamming marks/aoe's to tag stealthers and remove stealth. Traps would still put the stealther in combat and remove stealth (maybe a specific few). All skills would require line of sight to use. No more rev porting through obstacles or barrage shots over walls. This would also make walls usable for defenders, since now spamming aoe's on walls would give you "no line of sight to target", or "out of range". Siege damage would not remove stealth, except the arrow cart skill.

    Only putting AOEs on your target kinda-sorta worked in GW1 because players moved slowly. It would be absolutely terrible in this game. All this to "fix" "stealth" by copying WoW's goofy slow-moving perma-stealth gameplay. :confused:

    The problem is the devs designed wvw after Dark Age of Camelot, and got almost all of it wrong during implementation. I never played WoW, but the perma portion of stealth isn't the problem. But, in order to fix stealth in ways it needs to be fixed, to balance it, lots of other things will have to change.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Ayon.9875Ayon.9875 Member ✭✭

    As well as stun brakes spame. Its ok for the thf class to have these things but they need to be forced to build for them giving up every thing to have them like other classes. If your still doing a 9k back stab or doing 2k condi ticks and still have these effects there is something broken about the build / class.

    Erm no, thief doesn't hit 9k backstab. A standard thief build hits backstab for somewhere around 4k-5k. If you go full glass you will hit for around 7-7.5k.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Heibi.4251 said:
    Yep my stealth/thief adjustments that I have always said need to be implemented are:
    1. When stealhted you must move at walk speed in order to be "stealthy".
    2. No spiking from stealth.
    3. No stealthing while in combat. Blinding is one thing but going invis is completely different.
    4. Longer cooldowns on stealth - much longer.
    5. Once revealed you stay revealed until timer is gone - i.e. Target Painters - no traiting to insta-re-stealth and ignore certain mechanics.
    6. Portal should be changed to thief only - period. The current meta is completely unbalanced. Also the timing needs to be adjusted. It should be just like the mesmer portal timing. Right now a thief can drop the portal and run away for almost a minute then port back and drop another immediately.
    7. While in keeps that have just flipped you cannot stealth. Currently you can stealth and your dot vanishes and you are NOT MARKED. And with the ridiculous stealth stacking you can stay stealthed for a very long time - nearly permanent(with tiny visible windows.)

    +1000 I'd be happy to see even half of these changes being applied

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    The only reason I've ever hated Thief in WvW is ever since they gave them Shadow Portal.

    Nothing is more infuriating than a DE is endlessly Stealthed in inner keep only to open a free path into the keep minutes later for a easy cap without defenders even realising they were around.

    Even if yu realise there is a DE in the keep, they are extremely difficult to catch because of all their stealth applications and 2 charges of revealed removal.

    Yu can literally blanket the entire inner with Reveal skills and not find the DE.

    This is why these days it's pretty much a MUST to slot and activate Radar upon capping a Keep, just for the primary reason of outting pest like DEs still hiding.

    And doing so prevents other useful anti siege tactics to be slotted in its place.

    Warclaw Sniff should be upgradable to detect stealthed players imo and another upgrade to reveal them.

  • Kulvar.1239Kulvar.1239 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Strider.7849 said:
    I think what bothers people the most is stealth disengage and re-engage.

    Yesterday at reset I was playing my berserker in WvW (I main ranger, just felt like playing something different lately) and my gf and I were trying to do our daily within a few minutes before I had to leave for work.

    Had a rifle condition based deadeye follow us all over the map plucking away at us, downing her frequently. I'm the more PvP oriented player of the two of us, however if I managed to land a stun and/or attack, he'd shadow step away and enter stealth. Then re-engage after resetting the fight and keep plucking away again. It was annoying/obnoxious to have to deal with, not to mention even though I had a decent amount of cleanse and resistance, the cooldowns were too long considering after using a cleanse when needed if I hit him, he'd just reset the fight but my cleanse would still be on cooldown. The spam immobilize made it even worse.

    We got our daily done and eventually managed to break combat from the condi thief but it was literally us going down after down and down, while stealth/conditions and high disengage/engage allowed him to harass and try to kill endlessly. I'm not saying it was OP, but it was a very unskilled tactic combining some of the most unfun things to fight in this game.

    and this is why thief either needs to get nerfed into the ground or stealth being removed from the game.

    Thankfully, you are not a developer cause many people paid good money for access to classes with stealth. For 5 years on this board all I have ever seen you post about is how you hate stealth. But your kind of complaints has already essentially killed Mesmer outside of PvE so you gonna help me get my refunds?

    That said:

    I have long said that stealth needs adjustments to be used for scouting and starting an attack only. Once that thief or Mesmer is in the fight, they should either have to finish it or get far enough away to re-engage stealth that an easy follow up attack is not viable. I can think of only 2 skills where exceptions should be made, Hunter's Shot and The Prestige and only because the entire point of those 2 skills are combat repositioning, are slow, require hits and have drawbacks, as well as a high cooldown (for weapon skills).

    And it looking like 'predator cloak' to enemies when you are too close (200-250 units, maybe 300) would also help. Yeah, it would break targeting, but not invalidate all cleave and AoE skill use.

    Stealth should be SNEAKY, not a mid-melee attack skill.

    It was a big disappointment when I discovered that thieves can remain permanently stealthed outside combat, while being detected by foes in close proximity.
    I would rather have ESO stealth system and replace GW2 Thief invisibility by a 1s-1.5s blur (1.5s-2s traited)

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    If they're so overpowered why are there so few left playing?

    Must be an honor thing.

    yet from those few many are playing like warriors or expecting to get carried with some old gimmick, its easy to notice to is good at that class atm.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 25, 2020

    Let's be serious: Teef is balanced since the damage nerf patch.

    • it can not oneshot any semi competitive play oriented build anymore
    • it is still too squishy to have some noteworthy fight presence, so any form of counterpressue will still force it into defense

    If you fight a thief these days you have a lot more time to react and you can make a lot more mistakes until the thief can punish you and gain the upper hand for the kill. Hell I do often taunt thief encounters and do a dogde jump (wasting a dodge) for no reason while it sneaks around me because its opening burst is most likely not a threat anymore.

    Thief is now like it should have always been: when built for mobility (most roaming builds), it deals very low damage. When built for damage (pve builds), it has very low mobility.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kulvar.1239 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Strider.7849 said:
    I think what bothers people the most is stealth disengage and re-engage.

    Yesterday at reset I was playing my berserker in WvW (I main ranger, just felt like playing something different lately) and my gf and I were trying to do our daily within a few minutes before I had to leave for work.

    Had a rifle condition based deadeye follow us all over the map plucking away at us, downing her frequently. I'm the more PvP oriented player of the two of us, however if I managed to land a stun and/or attack, he'd shadow step away and enter stealth. Then re-engage after resetting the fight and keep plucking away again. It was annoying/obnoxious to have to deal with, not to mention even though I had a decent amount of cleanse and resistance, the cooldowns were too long considering after using a cleanse when needed if I hit him, he'd just reset the fight but my cleanse would still be on cooldown. The spam immobilize made it even worse.

    We got our daily done and eventually managed to break combat from the condi thief but it was literally us going down after down and down, while stealth/conditions and high disengage/engage allowed him to harass and try to kill endlessly. I'm not saying it was OP, but it was a very unskilled tactic combining some of the most unfun things to fight in this game.

    and this is why thief either needs to get nerfed into the ground or stealth being removed from the game.

    Thankfully, you are not a developer cause many people paid good money for access to classes with stealth. For 5 years on this board all I have ever seen you post about is how you hate stealth. But your kind of complaints has already essentially killed Mesmer outside of PvE so you gonna help me get my refunds?

    That said:

    I have long said that stealth needs adjustments to be used for scouting and starting an attack only. Once that thief or Mesmer is in the fight, they should either have to finish it or get far enough away to re-engage stealth that an easy follow up attack is not viable. I can think of only 2 skills where exceptions should be made, Hunter's Shot and The Prestige and only because the entire point of those 2 skills are combat repositioning, are slow, require hits and have drawbacks, as well as a high cooldown (for weapon skills).

    And it looking like 'predator cloak' to enemies when you are too close (200-250 units, maybe 300) would also help. Yeah, it would break targeting, but not invalidate all cleave and AoE skill use.

    Stealth should be SNEAKY, not a mid-melee attack skill.

    It was a big disappointment when I discovered that thieves can remain permanently stealthed outside combat, while being detected by foes in close proximity.
    I would rather have ESO stealth system and replace GW2 Thief invisibility by a 1s-1.5s blur (1.5s-2s traited)

    You'd need to add indicators like stealth currently has or that perma out of combat stealth would be brutal, it's not so much stealth as it is complacency that kills people, anyone alert would miss not being able to see or hear stealth signs. Thief up close cares about the Stealth Attack, not so much the stealth so the 'blur' instead of stealth would be fine although not sure why that would need to change.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]