FRACTAL LEAVERS - plea to create a punish system for those who leave groups — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Fractals/Dungeons/Strike Missions/Raids

FRACTAL LEAVERS - plea to create a punish system for those who leave groups

Maat.3940Maat.3940 Member ✭✭

^this.

In the last couple of months, I've encountered many leavers in my fractal groups.
Just to get this excuse out of the way: yes, I understand life happens. Ofc it happens and sometimes one needs to attend to rl.
But what I am experiencing is not that.** Just people joining for the most difficult fractal and then leaving. Today I had to remake the group FOUR TIMES**, because of reasons like:

  • oh it's gonna take too long to find another warrior
  • blank, some just leave
  • oh, I just did CM, 10x, bye!

**So, there are popular games that managed to create a Leaver System where malevolent people, those who simply leech of groups to get the harder fractals, are actually held accountable. **

**I will throw a couple of ideas here to discourage this sort of behavior: **

  1. Make it so that if a player leaves more than 2 groups in 24 hours, they will get like a sign/symbol/aura next/above/below their character. So we can know who is actually a leaver. And to have a choice on whether we would like to risk being left standing stupid for the last fractal or just give up altogether.
  2. Make it so that the symbol thingy can be cleansed if they do not leave any fractal groups for 7 days. So, a fair trade. If a player undermines the experience of other players, let's discourage that. They stop engaging in this sort of behavior, let's encourage that. So, you don't infringe on anyone's freedom to do whatever. But don't sit passively while some people have their experience of the game ruined.

I mean, this is obviously a casual game. I am casual too. But it's so annoying to have to look for a player for just one or two fractals.
It's just the system that doesn't really hold anyone accountable. Other games like WoW managed to create a fair system to punish leavers.
And by continuing to encourage casualness (I will use this generic, harmless word though I'd like to say something else here), you are allowing other players to be affected and turned away from certain game modes.

Please, put your wonderful creative minds at work and really look at a fair system that benefits all.
Not creating a punishing system for leavers isn't bringing you more money, but feeling, as a player, that my time is respected when engaging your game, surely will bring more loyalty.

Comments

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    this is no job. People can leave if they need it. Not like ? add them leavers to block list and never start again.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Maat.3940Maat.3940 Member ✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    this is no job. People can leave if they need it. Not like ? add them leavers to block list and never start again.

    In four years I've never left a group out in the open, neither raids nor fractal groups. I do not go into fractals or raids if I know I don't have the time to invest.
    Sure, I've had some life events such as pizza at the door, etc but I never left a group and never leeched of a group. But thank you! Your answer and the people on Reddit answers are enlightening. I understand now where the majority of players are at in terms of what's normal in group content and what's not. A helpful experience. Thank you.

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anet intentionally adding a system that punishes a large portion of their active PvE player base? Ye I could see that happening /s.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So they can be double punished? One fir getting bad groups that wipe for an hour and another for leaving said bad group?

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Maat.3940 said:
    Sure, I've had some life events such as pizza at the door, etc but I never left a group and never leeched of a group.

    You can kick player form party, if 3+ think that player leach ..
    You can invite new player in already open instance, and etc.

    But thank you! Your answer and the people on Reddit answers are enlightening.

    don't read Reddit, but think my answer is same as community. Not like - not do, use blocklist, and don't make second job from that.

    I understand now where the majority of players are at in terms of what's normal in group content and what's not.

    normal groups have 3-4-5 ppl static. And don't worry if some pug gone.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • TPMN.1483TPMN.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    The solution here - get a static group, friends, guildies who you can rely on to do the full clear at a regular time.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭

    People do disconnect. To punish people who occasionally have a bad internet would be over the top.

    For people joining just for one fractal, is it that much of a hassle? If you're going to pug, then you can expect this to keep happening. As suggested earlier in this thread, making a static group solves that problem for you.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2020

    I have recently made a similar post. People suggested to block the leavers.. Well it kinda works, block every player that leaves your party or creates a lying lfg and move on. Everyone should block them so they end up playing with each other alone.

    @Hesione.9412 said:
    People do disconnect. To punish people who occasionally have a bad internet would be over the top.

    Disconnecting isn't a problem, when someone disconnects in a raid or a fractal nobody ever has problems with that you can see the person disconnected because he just goes offline which is different from leaving the party. People normally wait that person to reconnect before killing the boss, it has nothing to do with the issue.

    @zealex.9410 said:
    So they can be double punished? One fir getting bad groups that wipe for an hour and another for leaving said bad group?

    And I am not sure wiping is an issue either. After several attempts leaving the group is ok I guess, but apart from cms which are gated from noobs with kp I am not sure if there are groups that still wipe that much in fractals. Apart from that if someone is not in the mood of carrying the group (I personally think every fractal is carryable, even cms), he should leave before finishing the 1st fractal. It isn't necessary to do half the dailies to find out that the group is "uncarriable". You can actually see the good and bad groups even before entering the lfg by looking up the team composition.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    The solution here - get a static group, friends, guildies who you can rely on to do the full clear at a regular time.

    I keep seeing that this is the solution. The OP does not appear to have posted once this suggestion was made.

    This is a multi-player game. You can get cross all you want, or frustrated all you want, but there's no point. You have no control over other players. The only way you will get some semblance of control is to have a static group. And I point you back to people who have suggested this, earlier in the thread.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    IF you add a system that punishes leaving, it will punish players that want to leave their groups for "legitimate" reasons. Maybe the group was terrible, maybe someone was trash talking you, maybe someone was actively trying to harass the group, maybe maybe, or simpler things like a disconnection or they got a phone call from their boss. There are a lot of reasons for a player to leave a group and you can't possibly put all those in the same system. And an automatic system will be hard to detect the "reasons" for leaving.

    That said, I can think of a way to fix one of the worst types of "leavers" in Fractals. Those that leave because they've already finished a Fractal that day, but yet join a "Full Clear" group, do those they are missing and then leave. The suggestion doesn't include any kind of punishing.

    Add a way for a fractal group to see which dailies/CMs everyone in the group has already completed that day. That way if you create a group asking for Full Clear and a player joins that has already finished some of the Fractals on that day, they will be visible. So you will either start with THAT Fractal (so they repeat it first) or they can go find another group or you can simply run with them then replace them once they leave. At the very least the group will have advance notice.

  • Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

    I like the idea, but what if your internet decides to be jerk when you are in the middle of a fractal? Would that count? I'll say an exemple, you "lost connection to the server" and the game brings you back at character screen. You immediately log back (to return in the fractal), if you haven't been kicked from party, you are still in party. Would that count?

  • Vilin.8056Vilin.8056 Member ✭✭✭

    So the said player should just AFK inside the fractal to avoid punishment?

    Or should this punishment be applied to kicked players? Then what's keeping innocent players from being punished?

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You never left any group at all over the years and you want people to be punished when leaving while they have multiple legitimizing reasons to do so? Trying not to be harsh here but it sounds like you are a very orderly person maybe with some eccentricity here and there. No offense, but view it from a more relaxed point of view. It's still a game for everyone - even for you.

    Here's an advice I would give you for the future:
    During my years of fractal running I've encountered a lot of skritt shows, bad behaviour and other annoying stuff. So, I analyzed for myself what's the best order to be successful in fracs and it turned out that it is definitely the best to play like this
    1. 100 CM
    2. 99 CM
    3. T4
    4. Recs
    In this case you secure that you have competent players at start for the harder ones - namely the CMs. In my opinion 100 is harder than 99 but that's a personal view. Afterwards I was always more open minded for people joining the group because T4s most often are a cakewalk anyways, same for Recs. I can't tell the situation at the moment but for Recs it was always negligible who joined because CM players should & are able to low-man those. They really aren't hard and in addition people joining very fast for those so I was never annoyed when people left after T4s. It's almost the same for T4s but with exceptions for maybe Mai oder Siren's Reef.
    Overall this order worked very well and brought fractal god to me in no time.
    For me the most annoying leavers are those who leave during a fractal after a stupid wipe or so but in the end the next guy joined within 5 minutes so there was really no problem to wait that little time.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2020

    Remember, it's not a queue system similar to other games - the group does not automatically dissolve after you've completed your set objective. So, keeping that in mind, how exactly the system would tell when it's okay to leave the group and when it's not? I mean, what if you made a group for one fractal? Would everyone be penalized for leaving after that one fractal? What if someone would do a group for some OW stuff? Notice, how the game literally can't tell whether the person leaving leaves before the stuff the group intended to do is finished, or not. And if you're actively playing, you might end up in several groups within a day.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Maat.3940Maat.3940 Member ✭✭

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    The solution here - get a static group, friends, guildies who you can rely on to do the full clear at a regular time.

    That's a helpful idea! Thank you.

  • Maat.3940Maat.3940 Member ✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Remember, it's not a queue system similar to other games - the group does not automatically dissolve after you've completed your set objective. So, keeping that in mind, how exactly the system would tell when it's okay to leave the group and when it's not? I mean, what if you made a group for one fractal? Would everyone be penalized for leaving after that one fractal? What if someone would do a group for some OW stuff? Notice, how the game literally can't tell whether the person leaving leaves before the stuff the group intended to do is finished, or not. And if you're actively playing, you might end up in several groups within a day.

    I know. I realized that as you guys started coming up with these conclusions. It's a futile post and subject but I am super grateful for people keeping it calm and steady. I mainly put this idea out there cuz maybe smarter people than me can figure this one out. Cuz I sure can't. Anyway, thanks for your input! Have a good one!

  • Maat.3940Maat.3940 Member ✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    You never left any group at all over the years and you want people to be punished when leaving while they have multiple legitimizing reasons to do so? Trying not to be harsh here but it sounds like you are a very orderly person maybe with some eccentricity here and there. No offense, but view it from a more relaxed point of view. It's still a game for everyone - even for you.

    Here's an advice I would give you for the future:
    During my years of fractal running I've encountered a lot of skritt shows, bad behaviour and other annoying stuff. So, I analyzed for myself what's the best order to be successful in fracs and it turned out that it is definitely the best to play like this
    1. 100 CM
    2. 99 CM
    3. T4
    4. Recs
    In this case you secure that you have competent players at start for the harder ones - namely the CMs. In my opinion 100 is harder than 99 but that's a personal view. Afterwards I was always more open minded for people joining the group because T4s most often are a cakewalk anyways, same for Recs. I can't tell the situation at the moment but for Recs it was always negligible who joined because CM players should & are able to low-man those. They really aren't hard and in addition people joining very fast for those so I was never annoyed when people left after T4s. It's almost the same for T4s but with exceptions for maybe Mai oder Siren's Reef.
    Overall this order worked very well and brought fractal god to me in no time.
    For me the most annoying leavers are those who leave during a fractal after a stupid wipe or so but in the end the next guy joined within 5 minutes so there was really no problem to wait that little time.

    Perfect suggestion!! Thank you so much for sharing this idea.