FRACTAL LEAVERS - plea to create a punish system for those who leave groups — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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FRACTAL LEAVERS - plea to create a punish system for those who leave groups

Maat.3940Maat.3940 Member ✭✭

^this.

In the last couple of months, I've encountered many leavers in my fractal groups.
Just to get this excuse out of the way: yes, I understand life happens. Ofc it happens and sometimes one needs to attend to rl.
But what I am experiencing is not that.** Just people joining for the most difficult fractal and then leaving. Today I had to remake the group FOUR TIMES**, because of reasons like:

  • oh it's gonna take too long to find another warrior
  • blank, some just leave
  • oh, I just did CM, 10x, bye!

**So, there are popular games that managed to create a Leaver System where malevolent people, those who simply leech of groups to get the harder fractals, are actually held accountable. **

**I will throw a couple of ideas here to discourage this sort of behavior: **

  1. Make it so that if a player leaves more than 2 groups in 24 hours, they will get like a sign/symbol/aura next/above/below their character. So we can know who is actually a leaver. And to have a choice on whether we would like to risk being left standing stupid for the last fractal or just give up altogether.
  2. Make it so that the symbol thingy can be cleansed if they do not leave any fractal groups for 7 days. So, a fair trade. If a player undermines the experience of other players, let's discourage that. They stop engaging in this sort of behavior, let's encourage that. So, you don't infringe on anyone's freedom to do whatever. But don't sit passively while some people have their experience of the game ruined.

I mean, this is obviously a casual game. I am casual too. But it's so annoying to have to look for a player for just one or two fractals.
It's just the system that doesn't really hold anyone accountable. Other games like WoW managed to create a fair system to punish leavers.
And by continuing to encourage casualness (I will use this generic, harmless word though I'd like to say something else here), you are allowing other players to be affected and turned away from certain game modes.

Please, put your wonderful creative minds at work and really look at a fair system that benefits all.
Not creating a punishing system for leavers isn't bringing you more money, but feeling, as a player, that my time is respected when engaging your game, surely will bring more loyalty.

<1

Comments

  • Maat.3940Maat.3940 Member ✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    this is no job. People can leave if they need it. Not like ? add them leavers to block list and never start again.

    In four years I've never left a group out in the open, neither raids nor fractal groups. I do not go into fractals or raids if I know I don't have the time to invest.
    Sure, I've had some life events such as pizza at the door, etc but I never left a group and never leeched of a group. But thank you! Your answer and the people on Reddit answers are enlightening. I understand now where the majority of players are at in terms of what's normal in group content and what's not. A helpful experience. Thank you.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Maat.3940 said:
    Sure, I've had some life events such as pizza at the door, etc but I never left a group and never leeched of a group.

    You can kick player form party, if 3+ think that player leach ..
    You can invite new player in already open instance, and etc.

    But thank you! Your answer and the people on Reddit answers are enlightening.

    don't read Reddit, but think my answer is same as community. Not like - not do, use blocklist, and don't make second job from that.

    I understand now where the majority of players are at in terms of what's normal in group content and what's not.

    normal groups have 3-4-5 ppl static. And don't worry if some pug gone.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • TPMN.1483TPMN.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    The solution here - get a static group, friends, guildies who you can rely on to do the full clear at a regular time.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People do disconnect. To punish people who occasionally have a bad internet would be over the top.

    For people joining just for one fractal, is it that much of a hassle? If you're going to pug, then you can expect this to keep happening. As suggested earlier in this thread, making a static group solves that problem for you.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2020

    I have recently made a similar post. People suggested to block the leavers.. Well it kinda works, block every player that leaves your party or creates a lying lfg and move on. Everyone should block them so they end up playing with each other alone.

    @Hesione.9412 said:
    People do disconnect. To punish people who occasionally have a bad internet would be over the top.

    Disconnecting isn't a problem, when someone disconnects in a raid or a fractal nobody ever has problems with that you can see the person disconnected because he just goes offline which is different from leaving the party. People normally wait that person to reconnect before killing the boss, it has nothing to do with the issue.

    @zealex.9410 said:
    So they can be double punished? One fir getting bad groups that wipe for an hour and another for leaving said bad group?

    And I am not sure wiping is an issue either. After several attempts leaving the group is ok I guess, but apart from cms which are gated from noobs with kp I am not sure if there are groups that still wipe that much in fractals. Apart from that if someone is not in the mood of carrying the group (I personally think every fractal is carryable, even cms), he should leave before finishing the 1st fractal. It isn't necessary to do half the dailies to find out that the group is "uncarriable". You can actually see the good and bad groups even before entering the lfg by looking up the team composition.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    The solution here - get a static group, friends, guildies who you can rely on to do the full clear at a regular time.

    I keep seeing that this is the solution. The OP does not appear to have posted once this suggestion was made.

    This is a multi-player game. You can get cross all you want, or frustrated all you want, but there's no point. You have no control over other players. The only way you will get some semblance of control is to have a static group. And I point you back to people who have suggested this, earlier in the thread.

  • Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

    I like the idea, but what if your internet decides to be jerk when you are in the middle of a fractal? Would that count? I'll say an exemple, you "lost connection to the server" and the game brings you back at character screen. You immediately log back (to return in the fractal), if you haven't been kicked from party, you are still in party. Would that count?

  • Vilin.8056Vilin.8056 Member ✭✭✭

    So the said player should just AFK inside the fractal to avoid punishment?

    Or should this punishment be applied to kicked players? Then what's keeping innocent players from being punished?

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14, 2020

    Remember, it's not a queue system similar to other games - the group does not automatically dissolve after you've completed your set objective. So, keeping that in mind, how exactly the system would tell when it's okay to leave the group and when it's not? I mean, what if you made a group for one fractal? Would everyone be penalized for leaving after that one fractal? What if someone would do a group for some OW stuff? Notice, how the game literally can't tell whether the person leaving leaves before the stuff the group intended to do is finished, or not. And if you're actively playing, you might end up in several groups within a day.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Maat.3940Maat.3940 Member ✭✭

    @TPMN.1483 said:
    The solution here - get a static group, friends, guildies who you can rely on to do the full clear at a regular time.

    That's a helpful idea! Thank you.

  • Maat.3940Maat.3940 Member ✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Remember, it's not a queue system similar to other games - the group does not automatically dissolve after you've completed your set objective. So, keeping that in mind, how exactly the system would tell when it's okay to leave the group and when it's not? I mean, what if you made a group for one fractal? Would everyone be penalized for leaving after that one fractal? What if someone would do a group for some OW stuff? Notice, how the game literally can't tell whether the person leaving leaves before the stuff the group intended to do is finished, or not. And if you're actively playing, you might end up in several groups within a day.

    I know. I realized that as you guys started coming up with these conclusions. It's a futile post and subject but I am super grateful for people keeping it calm and steady. I mainly put this idea out there cuz maybe smarter people than me can figure this one out. Cuz I sure can't. Anyway, thanks for your input! Have a good one!

  • Maat.3940Maat.3940 Member ✭✭

    @Vinceman.4572 said:
    You never left any group at all over the years and you want people to be punished when leaving while they have multiple legitimizing reasons to do so? Trying not to be harsh here but it sounds like you are a very orderly person maybe with some eccentricity here and there. No offense, but view it from a more relaxed point of view. It's still a game for everyone - even for you.

    Here's an advice I would give you for the future:
    During my years of fractal running I've encountered a lot of skritt shows, bad behaviour and other annoying stuff. So, I analyzed for myself what's the best order to be successful in fracs and it turned out that it is definitely the best to play like this
    1. 100 CM
    2. 99 CM
    3. T4
    4. Recs
    In this case you secure that you have competent players at start for the harder ones - namely the CMs. In my opinion 100 is harder than 99 but that's a personal view. Afterwards I was always more open minded for people joining the group because T4s most often are a cakewalk anyways, same for Recs. I can't tell the situation at the moment but for Recs it was always negligible who joined because CM players should & are able to low-man those. They really aren't hard and in addition people joining very fast for those so I was never annoyed when people left after T4s. It's almost the same for T4s but with exceptions for maybe Mai oder Siren's Reef.
    Overall this order worked very well and brought fractal god to me in no time.
    For me the most annoying leavers are those who leave during a fractal after a stupid wipe or so but in the end the next guy joined within 5 minutes so there was really no problem to wait that little time.

    Perfect suggestion!! Thank you so much for sharing this idea.

  • I completely agree with OP, there's nothing worse than spending an hour or so on a fractal, for people to just ditch because they've not gotten their own way or the boss didn't get beat first time.

    Its an absolutely massive waste of time, especially for a game where you have to grind constantly, just to get anywhere or anything and at the end of the day leaving a fractal screws the rest of the people and renders all the time you've spent as useless.

    League of Legends has a punishment system and when it comes to fractals of pve, it should be put in place in GW2.

    I've spent 2 and half hours tonight doing fractals and I've got absolutely f*** all to show for it.

  • Fangoth.4503Fangoth.4503 Member ✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    also create a punishment for people that don't perform well.
    people will then improve and there will be no need for leaving groups <3

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    @Fangoth.4503 said:
    also create a punishment for people that don't perform well.
    people will then improve and there will be no need for leaving groups <3

    Or just don't bother with any half-measures, and create a punishment for joining fractals. That should get rid of all the problems at one go.
    I mean, the end result will be the same, but you will reach it faster and without creating so much group toxicity.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Fallesafe.5932Fallesafe.5932 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    It could be called the North Korean Glorious Fractal Patriot System. Those who show disloyalty to their fellow fractal patriots will have an account-wide, uncleansable crippled condition applied to all their characters for a week. And every time they die one equipped item can be looted by any other players in the area.

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2020

    Ya how you implement this. I guess your saying in the middle of a fractal ok but even so if we wipe once or 8 times and someone bounces usually they are aggravated to the point they aren't going to join a new group 2 min later. Any other way like after we do 3 and sunqua or sirens next or thermnova someone always bounces so my issue is more the person who doesn't adjust the lfg letting me or others know we already did 2 or 3 of the 4. Then I join and it's on the highest one and you like hmmm they going backwards but no you do it they bounce and now you forced to join a fresh and bounce on the last one.

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Only Even.6193Only Even.6193 Member ✭✭✭

    Double edged sword;
    What If I want to clear a T4 Daily quick&chill, and find out that the LFG group I joined that advertised "Exp players" is full of first timers or players that die non stop to mechanics so even a scourge heal can't do nothing ?
    Do I get a penalty by leaving ?

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Fangoth.4503 said:
    also create a punishment for people that don't perform well.
    people will then improve and there will be no need for leaving groups <3

    Or just don't bother with any half-measures, and create a punishment for joining fractals. That should get rid of all the problems at one go.
    I mean, the end result will be the same, but you will reach it faster and without creating so much group toxicity.

    it's also a solution.
    regardless this thread is a joke, if a group isn't performing half descently player will blacklist player (to avoid getting their group again and get debuffed) and still leave go grab a coffe while waiting for debuff to run out and try again.
    also after a couple of time with such a "great" addition to the game good player will be tired of fractals and just stop wasting their time in lfg, making fractal even more dead than it is (pugwise)

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People can come and go as they please. No need to label someone like what 1942 Germany did.

    Someone will always fill a group no matter what.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    Not a huge fan of the entire punishment mentality in general. Humans do not respond well to any kind of punishments, improvement usually come at a very high cost. Most punishments do more harm than good. I would like to use the opposite approach and reward sticking to the team:

    • Create a buff called "Part of the Team"
    • Upon creating a party, entering the first Fractal, that buff has one stack
    • After completing a fractal, your buff stacks up
    • When you leave the party, the buff remains 10 more minutes
    • When you enter a new team, you start from scratch again - even if that team already did 3 fractals before you have joined, they continue at 3 stacks, you start a 1 stack

    That buff could grant minor loot enhancements such as

    • chance for bonus Relics on kill
    • Magic Find
    • Increased gold/EXP gain

    This would improve the situation, promote the idea of playing Fractals in a group for an extended time. In addition, Fractal runs outside the dailies would be promoted as well. However, thanks to our genius farmers, we have to double-check to prevent abuse of the system. Else there would be groups just grinding stacks in T1 fractals and doing their CM/T4/Rec after.

    • the buff only increases by one for each fractal of each tier, doing UB 15 times in a row would not cause 15 stacks
    • the buff should have a cap of ~ 10 stacks
  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    How are you supposed to not leave the group at some point? Or are we talking only about leavers once you are already in the fractal? For those some punishment could be in order but only if they do it frequently.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    we already have this tool: is call block list. Add, and don''t go next time if u not like it.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2020

    I can imagine its annoying for some people to have to re open lfg when someone leaves, but as someone who doesn't even takes T4s seriously, I find it so easy to just lfg and put "t4s dps only x and y fractal" and 4 man it while someone joins.
    You only need heals and quickness to do T4s, every mechanic is so irrelevant you can pretty much clear and carry everything with 3 competent people that can avoid critical attack and boss patterns.

    Getting angry at people that leaves after clearing CMs or something like that is weird.

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • Sir Alymer.3406Sir Alymer.3406 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2020

    So, let's reverse this.

    Say a player joins your LFG for all fractals, you start doing all the fractals, but your group takes an hour in one of the CMs and other people keep wiping to the mechanics over and over again. Should the player who's tired of having to try to rez the people who keep going down to what should be easy-to-avoid mechanics be punished for leaving the group to find another? At what point is it no longer the person who leaves fault for leaving? How do we gauge this accurately so the least amount of innocent people are caught by this system?

    EDIT:

    Here's an easier solution, brought to you by ESO's Dungeon Queueing system. You Queue up with your role (Firebrand, Renegade, some flavor of DPS, etc.), Set roles you're willing to play with and the fractals you wish to do. You'll be set in a group that best matches your needs. Groups are random, you don't know who you're grouping with so it doesn't matter. If you leave, you can't queue again for 30 minutes. If you're kicked, the party can't Queue for 5 minutes (EDIT) and you can't queue for 7 minutes.

  • Wuffy.9732Wuffy.9732 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't play this game like it's a job, kitten. What should I whip out my resume after joining pug groups too (not counting it as kp, just an expression)? it's not a dang job. Life happens, people have to leave groups. It sucks but it's a choice that is out of your control.

    Get over it /endthread.

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2020

    I think there would have to be some pretty significant changes to the LFG system before something like this could be implemented.

    Also I think this is a horrible idea.

    If your team wins it's because of everyone else. If your team loses, blame the thief.
    ranger is OP but holo is more OP so its fine
    Why do this matter at all, you have people asking you why play so bad as fractal god?
    If they would pull that kitten on me, i would sue instantly. And i have enough time and money to finish that.
    Balance? More like a bunch of random nerfs done by interns.

  • "Punish system"

    Really ?

    Chill

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The only type of "leaver" that I don't like is the type of leaver that joins a full clear group, then leaves mid-way, not because the group is performing badly, they are performing badly or any valid IRL reasons, but because they never wanted to do a full clear in the first place. A person that joins a full clear group in order to do the last fractal they are missing for the day, since they did all others, and never bothered to state it to the rest of the team. That's the ONLY time I question when someone leaves a group, and as I said earlier in this thread:

    Add a way for a fractal group to see which dailies/CMs everyone in the group has already completed that day. That way if you create a group asking for Full Clear and a player joins that has already finished some of the Fractals on that day, they will be visible. So you will either start with THAT Fractal (so they repeat it first) or they can go find another group or you can simply run with them then replace them once they leave. At the very least the group will have advance notice.

    This simple solution would solve the one and only "problem" with Fractal leavers. Otherwise punishing leaving a group is an absolutely terrible idea that can only backfire spectacularly if it's ever implemented.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:
    You Queue up with your role (Firebrand, Renegade, some flavor of DPS, etc.)

    This kind of suggestion has appeared a lot in the past but it has one major problem, there aren't set roles in this game like in other MMORPGs. Plus with every patch roles change, a build that was good in one role will be bad after a trait change, rune change or will simply be surpassed by a newer build. This isn't the type game where you queue as "Tank, DPS, Healer" and you are expected, based on your build, to fulfill that role, there are no guarantees.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:
    You Queue up with your role (Firebrand, Renegade, some flavor of DPS, etc.)

    This kind of suggestion has appeared a lot in the past but it has one major problem, there aren't set roles in this game like in other MMORPGs. Plus with every patch roles change, a build that was good in one role will be bad after a trait change, rune change or will simply be surpassed by a newer build.

    The hell you talking about? There are well defined roles in this game that are expected of people. There's Healer, Boon/buff support, & DPS. Think of it like a triangle where you can be any one of those three things and the closer you are to one the less you do with the others. Even in other MMOs there are updates that change what gear sets work with healer, tank, and DPS and depends entirely on your class as well.

    This isn't the type game where you queue as "Tank, DPS, Healer" and you are expected, based on your build, to fulfill that role, there are no guarantees.

    I think you're getting it confused. Even in ESO there are builds that have more damage and still can 'tank' or 'heal' and worse yet, people can still queue up wrong either on purpose for faster queues or on accident where they forget to switch their role before entering the queue. Either way, kicking a fake tank or fake healer (or in GW2's case, a fake boon support and fake healer) is real easy to pick out as they're not doing their job (GW2, no boons and barely any heals), and promptly get kicked. Sure you've gotta wait 5 minutes to find another person, but the jerk that got kicked has to wait 7 now.

    You're also not going to make it to CMs+T4s without knowing about the meta roles for each profession in fractals.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:
    The hell you talking about? There are well defined roles in this game that are expected of people. There's Healer, Boon/buff support, & DPS. Think of it like a triangle where you can be any one of those three things and the closer you are to one the less you do with the others. Even in other MMOs there are updates that change what gear sets work with healer, tank, and DPS and depends entirely on your class as well.

    There aren't defined roles in Guild Wars 2, there are defined builds, there is a vast difference here. Builds are much more restrictive here, groups are asking for a Renegade or a Firebrand, not a Healer / Boon-support. As an example, how many different builds you can say cover the Healer role in Guild Wars 2 that are completely interchangeable, meaning whichever you get, they will all perform the same?

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:
    You Queue up with your role (Firebrand, Renegade, some flavor of DPS, etc.)

    This kind of suggestion has appeared a lot in the past but it has one major problem, there aren't set roles in this game like in other MMORPGs. Plus with every patch roles change, a build that was good in one role will be bad after a trait change, rune change or will simply be surpassed by a newer build.

    The hell you talking about? There are well defined roles in this game that are expected of people. There's Healer, Boon/buff support, & DPS. Think of it like a triangle where you can be any one of those three things and the closer you are to one the less you do with the others. Even in other MMOs there are updates that change what gear sets work with healer, tank, and DPS and depends entirely on your class as well.

    This isn't the type game where you queue as "Tank, DPS, Healer" and you are expected, based on your build, to fulfill that role, there are no guarantees.

    I think you're getting it confused. Even in ESO there are builds that have more damage and still can 'tank' or 'heal' and worse yet, people can still queue up wrong either on purpose for faster queues or on accident where they forget to switch their role before entering the queue. Either way, kicking a fake tank or fake healer (or in GW2's case, a fake boon support and fake healer) is real easy to pick out as they're not doing their job (GW2, no boons and barely any heals), and promptly get kicked. Sure you've gotta wait 5 minutes to find another person, but the jerk that got kicked has to wait 7 now.

    You're also not going to make it to CMs+T4s without knowing about the meta roles for each profession in fractals.

    And why would he have to wait 7m he dident leave he was kicked so shouldent be punished twice.

  • Kichwas.7152Kichwas.7152 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2020

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Add a way for a fractal group to see which dailies/CMs everyone in the group has already completed that day. That way if you create a group asking for Full Clear and a player joins that has already finished some of the Fractals on that day, they will be visible. So you will either start with THAT Fractal (so they repeat it first) or they can go find another group or you can simply run with them then replace them once they leave. At the very least the group will have advance notice.

    Some things sound really good in theory until you start looking at them more.

    What happens if you join group, get through some of the dailies, and then for whatever reason the group breaks up, or loses 1 person.

    • Group broke up, now you need to find a new group - but you have this giant scarlet letter over your head so no one is willing to let you join them.
    • Group lost one player, new person joins, sees you have already done some of the fractals, and leaves before they get stuck with you and end up being in the first situation...
    • Group loses one player mid run on their second fractal of the day for whatever reason. New person joins right as you get completion... and now has that giant scarlet letter over their head when they later want to get that first fractal done, having been unable to leave your group fast enough to avoid the stink...

    I really don't see a problem with the current situation. And I end up in groups all the time that have already done some of the fractals I want to do... I just... easily join another group after.

    Today I even started my own group that I listed as just one fractal - the one I had left, and I got a group in about 5 minutes. Felt like forever because usually I can get a group in seconds... but 5 minutes is pretty quick when you think about it and compare it to sitting in LFG as anything but a tank or healer in most other MMOs.

    If any of you think finding replacements is bad here... just got play any other MMO and try to PUG in your support roles... make sure you have a second monitor going because it's Netflix time. Be it a fresh group or a replacement mid-run.

    In fact FFXIV has a little thing you can check to make sure you avoid getting stuck in runs that aren't fresh, which... really sucks when you're group loses one player and all 50,000 people online at that moment have checked that 'avoid getting cooties' box...

    Just say no to butt-flaps. | 光復香港 時代革命

  • @Linken.6345 said:

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:
    You Queue up with your role (Firebrand, Renegade, some flavor of DPS, etc.)

    This kind of suggestion has appeared a lot in the past but it has one major problem, there aren't set roles in this game like in other MMORPGs. Plus with every patch roles change, a build that was good in one role will be bad after a trait change, rune change or will simply be surpassed by a newer build.

    The hell you talking about? There are well defined roles in this game that are expected of people. There's Healer, Boon/buff support, & DPS. Think of it like a triangle where you can be any one of those three things and the closer you are to one the less you do with the others. Even in other MMOs there are updates that change what gear sets work with healer, tank, and DPS and depends entirely on your class as well.

    This isn't the type game where you queue as "Tank, DPS, Healer" and you are expected, based on your build, to fulfill that role, there are no guarantees.

    I think you're getting it confused. Even in ESO there are builds that have more damage and still can 'tank' or 'heal' and worse yet, people can still queue up wrong either on purpose for faster queues or on accident where they forget to switch their role before entering the queue. Either way, kicking a fake tank or fake healer (or in GW2's case, a fake boon support and fake healer) is real easy to pick out as they're not doing their job (GW2, no boons and barely any heals), and promptly get kicked. Sure you've gotta wait 5 minutes to find another person, but the jerk that got kicked has to wait 7 now.

    You're also not going to make it to CMs+T4s without knowing about the meta roles for each profession in fractals.

    And why would he have to wait 7m he dident leave he was kicked so shouldent be punished twice.

    Someone joins with the wrong role is being malicious and wasting other people's time. Someone who's repeatedly failing mechanics or not performing as a team player deserves to be removed. These actions deserve a punishment.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:
    You Queue up with your role (Firebrand, Renegade, some flavor of DPS, etc.)

    This kind of suggestion has appeared a lot in the past but it has one major problem, there aren't set roles in this game like in other MMORPGs. Plus with every patch roles change, a build that was good in one role will be bad after a trait change, rune change or will simply be surpassed by a newer build.

    The hell you talking about? There are well defined roles in this game that are expected of people. There's Healer, Boon/buff support, & DPS. Think of it like a triangle where you can be any one of those three things and the closer you are to one the less you do with the others. Even in other MMOs there are updates that change what gear sets work with healer, tank, and DPS and depends entirely on your class as well.

    This isn't the type game where you queue as "Tank, DPS, Healer" and you are expected, based on your build, to fulfill that role, there are no guarantees.

    I think you're getting it confused. Even in ESO there are builds that have more damage and still can 'tank' or 'heal' and worse yet, people can still queue up wrong either on purpose for faster queues or on accident where they forget to switch their role before entering the queue. Either way, kicking a fake tank or fake healer (or in GW2's case, a fake boon support and fake healer) is real easy to pick out as they're not doing their job (GW2, no boons and barely any heals), and promptly get kicked. Sure you've gotta wait 5 minutes to find another person, but the jerk that got kicked has to wait 7 now.

    You're also not going to make it to CMs+T4s without knowing about the meta roles for each profession in fractals.

    And why would he have to wait 7m he dident leave he was kicked so shouldent be punished twice.

    Someone joins with the wrong role is being malicious and wasting other people's time. Someone who's repeatedly failing mechanics or not performing as a team player deserves to be removed. These actions deserve a punishment.

    Yea and the punishment is the kick.

  • Tiilimon.6094Tiilimon.6094 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:
    Someone joins with the wrong role is being malicious and wasting other people's time. Someone who's repeatedly failing mechanics or not performing as a team player deserves to be removed. These actions deserve a punishment.

    Imo, if someone is repeatedly failing mechanics, they can be actually helped to learn them instead of punishing, we do this a lot in the groups I'm running with a pretty good rate of success.

    If the party doesn't wish to do so, there's always the option to vote for a kick, it's simple, fair and seems to work just fine.

  • @Tiilimon.6094 said:

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:
    Someone joins with the wrong role is being malicious and wasting other people's time. Someone who's repeatedly failing mechanics or not performing as a team player deserves to be removed. These actions deserve a punishment.

    Imo, if someone is repeatedly failing mechanics, they can be actually helped to learn them instead of punishing, we do this a lot in the groups I'm running with a pretty good rate of success.

    IMO, if you've sat there and explained mechanics for the past 30 minutes and they still don't get it, they should get the boot. They're not entitled to your time to train them and they can go try again with a different group.

    If the party doesn't wish to do so, there's always the option to vote for a kick, it's simple, fair and seems to work just fine.

    .. At what point did I advocate to get rid of the vote kick function? You'd still need to have a majority vote kick the person in order to remove them.

  • Tiilimon.6094Tiilimon.6094 Member ✭✭✭

    You're asking for an additional form of punishment to be added on top, could you elaborate what you meant by it?

    If you don't wish to spend the time, I already stated that you can kick if the party isn't up to training that person, I don't understand what caused the confusion about this.

    I also never said anything about you advocating for getting rid of vote kicking either.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:
    You Queue up with your role (Firebrand, Renegade, some flavor of DPS, etc.)

    This kind of suggestion has appeared a lot in the past but it has one major problem, there aren't set roles in this game like in other MMORPGs. Plus with every patch roles change, a build that was good in one role will be bad after a trait change, rune change or will simply be surpassed by a newer build.

    The hell you talking about? There are well defined roles in this game that are expected of people. There's Healer, Boon/buff support, & DPS. Think of it like a triangle where you can be any one of those three things and the closer you are to one the less you do with the others. Even in other MMOs there are updates that change what gear sets work with healer, tank, and DPS and depends entirely on your class as well.

    This isn't the type game where you queue as "Tank, DPS, Healer" and you are expected, based on your build, to fulfill that role, there are no guarantees.

    I think you're getting it confused. Even in ESO there are builds that have more damage and still can 'tank' or 'heal' and worse yet, people can still queue up wrong either on purpose for faster queues or on accident where they forget to switch their role before entering the queue. Either way, kicking a fake tank or fake healer (or in GW2's case, a fake boon support and fake healer) is real easy to pick out as they're not doing their job (GW2, no boons and barely any heals), and promptly get kicked. Sure you've gotta wait 5 minutes to find another person, but the jerk that got kicked has to wait 7 now.

    You're also not going to make it to CMs+T4s without knowing about the meta roles for each profession in fractals.

    The proplem is that not every boon support works with other boon supports.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Anen.1742Anen.1742 Member ✭✭

    I am regularly joining CM + T4 groups to only play CM, leaving after 98CM.
    Some people even go as far as calling me names in wispers after i left... Just man up and use your keyboard to open lfg instead of wispering me.

    But the real question is why would I wait ages for a CM only group to form when there are multiples CM+T4?
    It is also quite easy for the group to replace me only for T4, since the population for this is higher. The only time i feel a bit gilty is when a CM is also a daily T4.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Anen.1742 said:
    But the real question is why would I wait ages for a CM only group to form when there are multiples CM+T4?

    Oh, i don't know. Respect for other people, maybe?

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Anen.1742Anen.1742 Member ✭✭
    edited November 4, 2020

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Anen.1742 said:
    But the real question is why would I wait ages for a CM only group to form when there are multiples CM+T4?

    Oh, i don't know. Respect for other people, maybe?

    I am guessing that by respect you mean making them wait after i leave.
    Do you have data to support the fact that the wait after I leave is longer that the wait of me non joining the party in the first place?

  • Fuchslein.8639Fuchslein.8639 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2020

    But then there needs also to be a punishment for people who write out LFG's wrong.
    I have joined LFG's several times who had posted as All T4 Daily's and in the end only needed one fractal and were too lazy to change the LFG. So why should I waste my time for others and do more than I need to, when others don't either?

    But to be honest. Whoever develops a grudge because of something like that should maybe check his priorities :''D.

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Pug groups are just that Pug groups. While I can relate and understand your frustration I don't believe punishing makes the game mode healthy so to speak. Because if your going to punish people for leaving why not punish the people for kicking? That is the other side of this coin.

    Most cases when some one leaves it is probably for the best because you don't want someone in your group that does not want to be there. No contract was signed to join the group unless we are bound by the description or lack there of in a LFG window.

    The solution is and always will be making a static group. A second best solution is at least having 1 or 2 others that will play with you nightly so you don't have as many pugs in your group.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you