Are grenades ever going to be toned down? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Are grenades ever going to be toned down?

mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭

I'm losing my mind over here

<1

Comments

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭

    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Is mortar fine too? that's holosmith too..no wait.....-_-

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭

    What you expect things to happen?

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just dodge lol

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭

    even on scrapper, grenadee barrage is still too strong.

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2020

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Is mortar fine too? that's holosmith too..no wait.....-_-

    As a matter of fact, yes. Congratulations. You've figured out that the damage boosting traits of the Holosmith spec combined with its easy Might income from the same trait line is the source of the potentially absurd damage of not only the Grenade Kit, but also the Mortar Kit, and also all damage dealing skills!

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • Tanbin.2436Tanbin.2436 Member ✭✭

    @kraven.9578 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Is mortar fine too? that's holosmith too..no wait.....-_-

    Are nades and mortar as powerful on Core and Scrapper as they are on Holo? No, they are not.

    you can get the same dmg with nades on core ... the difference between holo and core nades isnt the damage. both can achieve same damage but with different trait lines.

  • XenoSpyro.1780XenoSpyro.1780 Member ✭✭✭

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:
    [blank] seems to murder health bars

    No one cares when other classes do it.

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    If Holo didn't have access to grenades, would they still need to be toned down DPS wise? I don't think so personally

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 21, 2020

    Holo is just overall good. The damage on nades is great, but the spec actually needs to kite a lot if you want to 1v1 on it, that’s where it annoys me with so much utility- an Invuln that isn’t channeled, crazy mobility and super fast resustain with huge boon uptime, just great overall.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    Holo is just overall good. The damage on nades is great, but the spec actually needs to kite a lot if you want to 1v1 on it, that’s where it annoys me with so much utility- an Invuln that isn’t channeled, crazy mobility and super fast resustain with huge boon uptime, just great overall.

    Wait, why does it matter if the invuln is channeled or not?

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    It does not create combo fields. Youre thinking of mortar kit. For which you could make a similar list, and yet it isnt used at all. And yeah that damage needs to be baked into a kit, thats the whole point. Engineer only has 1 weaponset instead of 2, so kits are there to replace other weapons at the cost of a utility slot. Ele has 4 skill bars, by comparision. Also, yes, actually. Im pretty sure conjured weapons hit even harder, theyre just not good because theyre conjured weapons.

    Still think that grenade kit and mortar kit are way too similar, btw. Both apply poison, chill, blind...
    Mortar kit just gets the associated combo fields in exchange for damage.

    We could really use a big kit rework patch in general. I don't quite understand why they are all so mixed in their damage type.
    They made flamethrower almost entirely condition based.... except the auto attack, which still uses power damage primarily.
    Bombs should be our power damage kit in my opinion, yet we have the fire bomb as one of our best condition attacks in it and some confusion.
    Elixir gun is supposed to be a supportive kit, yet we have a hard hitting power damage skill in it with acid bomb.

  • @Kuma.1503 said:
    Glad at least a few people get it.

    If a build is overperforming, you determine the root of the issue. Nades are not overperforming. Nades are the hardest hitting component of an over performing build.
    Nerf Holo's might gen and/or damage multipliers and you nerf their nade dps.

    Nades will continue to be balanced on both Core and Scrapper.

    Nerf nades and you leave the core issue behind. Holo will most likely find some other way (prybar) to melt your face off.

    You do realize more than one thing can be overperforming at once, right? Just because something is core and not on an elite doesn't mean it can't be too strong, I'm sick of seeing this defense. The moment someone says something is strong that isn't on an elite spec, people freak out because omg leave core alone when sometimes something in the core class is still too strong, it being made much worse by another overperforming thing like an elite just compounds it.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    It does not create combo fields. Youre thinking of mortar kit. For which you could make a similar list, and yet it isnt used at all. And yeah that damage needs to be baked into a kit, thats the whole point. Engineer only has 1 weaponset instead of 2, so kits are there to replace other weapons at the cost of a utility slot. Ele has 4 skill bars, by comparision. Also, yes, actually. Im pretty sure conjured weapons hit even harder, theyre just not good because theyre conjured weapons.

    Still think that grenade kit and mortar kit are way too similar, btw. Both apply poison, chill, blind...
    Mortar kit just gets the associated combo fields in exchange for damage.

    Thats because Mortar Kit originally wasnt a kit. They are probably too similar, but Im not sure how to fix it. Mortar kit should have the range advantage, but you never hit someone at loooong range.

  • Paradoxoglanis.1904Paradoxoglanis.1904 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Grenade barrage got a nerf which was the main op skill. The problem is that holo can effortlessly still get 20-25 might, which makes every one of their skills capable of dealing significant damage. But what am I saying, obviously passive 25 might is working as intended. If it wasnt it would have been fixed by now.

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Just letting you guys know, Core Engi can roll around with 25 might, Berserker amulet and get big Grenade Barrages. The reason why its not good is because you are utter food, food without Heat Therapy, Prismatic Converter, Holo Leap & Superspeed. Holo is like a high damage core build with added survivability :joy:

    Scrapper can do hella damage too and has just as much sustain. I think people just run it less because it requires a little bit more skill than popping photon forge, spamming every ability, popping some elixirs, and tossing grenades in between dodges.

    If Holo wasn't the easier route for the same damage, I'm sure we'd see more scrappers rolling grenades.

    But you're right. If they buff something to make core engi better, Holo is going to abuse it tenfold because Holo is the problem. It seems like it's always the first two traits that are taken, prismatic converter and barrier every meta.

    Admittedly I don't play engi that much, but it feels like those have been the consistent choices.

  • Is core engineer too overpowered? If NOT, then fix holosmith. Holo > core for multiple reasons. It offers pretty much everything in one package:
    great damage
    might generation
    sustain
    mobility

    If you make a core only build, you can pick some of the above.

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    so ahhhh Forum Mods and Devs are 100% active they just refuse to say a single thing about whats going on or what they got plan @mes.4607 . Alt account got banned asap after yesterday lmfaoooo so yea :) it's just radio silence for another 3-6 months !

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zoopop.5630 said:
    so ahhhh Forum Mods and Devs are 100% active they just refuse to say a single thing about whats going on or what they got plan @mes.4607 . Alt account got banned asap after yesterday lmfaoooo so yea :) it's just radio silence for another 3-6 months !

    devs and mods are 2 very different things

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:
    so ahhhh Forum Mods and Devs are 100% active they just refuse to say a single thing about whats going on or what they got plan @mes.4607 . Alt account got banned asap after yesterday lmfaoooo so yea :) it's just radio silence for another 3-6 months !

    devs and mods are 2 very different things

    both work for the company and both have power in the forums. If their able to delete and clean up anything that seems to point them in the wrong outlook to the public they'll get that done asap but wont respond to anyone post or make a single mention about anything.

    To me personally it isn't two "different" things. Clearly their lurking around and reading up on stuff but refuse to respond to anything. It's called Lack of communication and Lack of being held accountable for being MIA.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Glad at least a few people get it.

    If a build is overperforming, you determine the root of the issue. Nades are not overperforming. Nades are the hardest hitting component of an over performing build.
    Nerf Holo's might gen and/or damage multipliers and you nerf their nade dps.

    Nades will continue to be balanced on both Core and Scrapper.

    Nerf nades and you leave the core issue behind. Holo will most likely find some other way (prybar) to melt your face off.

    You do realize more than one thing can be overperforming at once, right? Just because something is core and not on an elite doesn't mean it can't be too strong, I'm sick of seeing this defense. The moment someone says something is strong that isn't on an elite spec, people freak out because omg leave core alone when sometimes something in the core class is still too strong, it being made much worse by another overperforming thing like an elite just compounds it.

    By what metric would you determine whether both factors (in this instance nades AND holo) are overperforming and not one factor?

    We can toss around blanket statements all day, but when it comes to balance, we need data. What the data shows is that neither core or scrapper are overperforming with nades. In fact, i'd say that core engi is currently underperforming even with nades. It simply lacks the mobility, damage modifiers, boons, and defensive utility that holosmith provides.

    What we've done here is identified a problem. Asked ourselves which factor or factors the problem stems from. We've removed one of the factors (Holosmith) to determine how the other (grenades) performs on it's own. What we see is that grenades do not overperform. Grenades are getting buffed by holo's might gen and damage modifiers. Running grenades in a utility slot comes with the trade-off of giving up cleanses and stunbreaks. Holosmith has the tools to offset that weakness. Core does not.

    In summary. Core does less damage than holo with grenades because it does not generate might as efficiently and lacks lazer's edge. Core does not have the defensive tools to manage the defensive trade-off of running nades. Even if they were a bit strong damage wise, there would be a healthy dynamic here. Core engi lacks defense and has to build for it, giving up a utility slot purely for dps means that core engi has to give up something valuable to access that damage.

    Nades are fine.
    `

  • @mes.4607 said:
    I'm losing my mind over here

    Wasent it nerfed last patch?

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:

    @mes.4607 said:
    I'm losing my mind over here

    Wasent it nerfed last patch?

    Not enough

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    Anet needs to finally update holographic shockwave a bit - it still has the 'always crits' tag. They could easily move the vuln stacks from corona burst to HS - 19 vuln stacks from one skill that also gives might is possibly a bit overboard. Moving them to HS would retain some of the power while cutting down on the...mindlessness of it and rewarding landing the CC.

  • Paradoxoglanis.1904Paradoxoglanis.1904 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    Grenade barrage got a nerf which was the main op skill. The problem is that holo can effortlessly still get 20-25 might, which makes every one of their skills capable of dealing significant damage. But what am I saying, obviously passive 25 might is working as intended. If it wasnt it would have been fixed by now.

    I take back what i said, nades are dumb.

  • Crozame.4098Crozame.4098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 23, 2020

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

    Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.
    But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability if all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

    How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

    High heat Sword 2? Holo 1234? Rampage 13? Oh and there are other grenade skills.... You have many burst skills, so each of them should be tuned down.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Holo damage is really good. I hate being caught in roads against them, but if they don’t get the kill on node and you are playing well- they will be forced off node to resustain or die. It’s just they do so much so fast that many don’t see them forced off node as much as they should be

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

    Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.
    But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability if all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

    How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

    High heat Sword 2? Holo 1234? Rampage 13? Oh and there are other grenade skills.... You have many burst skills, so each of them should be tuned down.

    None of those are burst (and Holo 4 is outright bad).

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

    Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.
    But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability if all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

    How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

    High heat Sword 2? Holo 1234? Rampage 13? Oh and there are other grenade skills.... You have many burst skills, so each of them should be tuned down.

    None of those are burst (and Holo 4 is outright bad).

    all of them are burst tho..that's why super speed is now meta instead of barrier, because holo will constantly bursting you and he will kill you before his sustain runs out.
    specially paired with explosive entrance

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solaerin.8635 said:
    In my opinion, one of the biggest issues with holosmith right now is actually the access to basically limitless superspeed. I think it would be a positive change if the trait that granted superspeed on holo leap only granted it if you land an attack. Similarly, sword 3 should only grant quickness if it lands.

    Even a ride the lightning treatment on holo leap would still make it good :/

  • Crozame.4098Crozame.4098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 24, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

    Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.
    But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability if all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

    How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

    High heat Sword 2? Holo 1234? Rampage 13? Oh and there are other grenade skills.... You have many burst skills, so each of them should be tuned down.

    None of those are burst (and Holo 4 is outright bad).

    None of those are burst. LMAO

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

    Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.
    But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability if all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

    How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

    High heat Sword 2? Holo 1234? Rampage 13? Oh and there are other grenade skills.... You have many burst skills, so each of them should be tuned down.

    None of those are burst (and Holo 4 is outright bad).

    all of them are burst tho..that's why super speed is now meta instead of barrier, because holo will constantly bursting you and he will kill you before his sustain runs out.
    specially paired with explosive entrance

    Have we ... have we changed the meaning of "burst" to mean "any damage at all"? What, are autoattacks burst now? Thats not "bursting". Thats "doing damage".

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Nades are fine. Holo needs to be toned down.

    Idk, grenade barrage seems to murder health bars on every spec, not just Holo.

    Grenade barrage is one of engineer's hardest hitting skills, of course it will deal a good burst of damage.
    But in PvP, the total power scaling of the ability if all grenades hit is 2,4. Before the last patch, it hit for 3,0, they nerfed the damage of the ability by 20% already.

    How much more do you want it to get nerfed exactly? Grenade barrage is supposed to be one of engineer's burstier skills, considering that it does nothing else but damage.

    High heat Sword 2? Holo 1234? Rampage 13? Oh and there are other grenade skills.... You have many burst skills, so each of them should be tuned down.

    None of those are burst (and Holo 4 is outright bad).

    None of those are burst. LMAO

    You could make an argument for high heat sword 2 if you hit all 5 blades while also hitting the melee strike, but thats not terribly reliable. The other ones? YEah Im sorry, but thats not burst, thats just doing damage. Unless you want to say all autoattacks are now burst.