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Classes balance, i hate your meta

ILiPlaGa.5204ILiPlaGa.5204 Member ✭✭
edited July 24, 2020 in PVP

Why do u have 9 classes if some one of them not playable? You so hard nerf mesmer, and keep do it even if ppl found some not bad option for build. Why i must play some other classes which i not want becouse you so want destroy one of the class for PVP. I am want drop your game, but i know you dont care some one little man. I hope you can see it developers. I love your game but i am done, i want keep play but i cant. Becouse you want me to play other classes. Rly hate... like a kid but drop you!

Comments

  • SPESHAL.9106SPESHAL.9106 Member ✭✭✭

    Bon Voyage!

    Like a cruise ship, you'll be back soon. You don't even believe your own hyperbole, but you're welcome to prove me wrong.

  • I wait something like this "good bye" and other staff. Can u say some more not expected like this? I can want drop it untill the game close man. And if some other good MMO will realese, this game will be more closer to close. And now if you "Bon Voyage" dude, go to other disscation pls.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ILiPlaGa.5204 said:
    Why do u have 9 classes if some one of them not playable? You so hard nerf mesmer, and keep do it even if ppl found some not bad option for build. Why i must play some other classes which i not want becouse you so want destroy one of the class for PVP. I am want drop your game, but i know you dont care some one little man. I hope you can see it developers. I love your game but i am done, i want keep play but i cant. Becouse you want me to play other classes. Rly hate... like a kid but drop you!

    mmos have incompetent developers when it comes to balancing, this is how it is everywhere I have ever looked.
    from classes that can stun you for 2minutes, to perma stealths to ignoring every game mechanic that other classes have to follow.
    they just dont get paid to balance right, they do other things.

  • aelska.4609aelska.4609 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2020

    To be honest I quite find every class to be playable, and I wonder if build diversity has ever been that high in gw2 history.
    On the down side most build options are so dumb that you can only differentiate a good player from a bad one by the way they trashtalk you in teamchat.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2020

    The meta has the same issues the game has had since the dhumfire patch:
    AOE condi spam
    AOE CC spam
    Eng is overpowered and does EVERYTHING(absolutely literally everything) at S tier level.
    Necro is too tanky and easy to play. Zero difference between a good and just installed GW2 2m ago Necro
    Thief has too many evades
    Ranger has too much sustain and it's DPS rotation is mashing every button on it's keyboard with 0 thought. Zero difference between a good and just installed GW2 2m ago ranger(esp condi).
    Pure bunkers are too strong and require 10x the effort to kill than to play.
    Warriors randomly kill you 100% to 0% keeping you stunned the entire time
    Ele gets nerfed over and over due to dumb bunker/support builds and is forever stuck in a bunker/support role
    Mesmers randomly 1 shot you

    The thread title is about the meta and I am talking about the current meta. My post is on topic.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aelska.4609 said:
    To be honest I quite find every class to be playable, and I wonder if build diversity has ever been that high in gw2 history.
    On the down side most build options are so dumb that you can only differentiate a good player from a bad one by the way they trashtalk you in teamchat.

    End of 2018, guardian had between 5-6 meta builds. Before Feb patch it had 2-3 (it depends on how you considered DH). Now it barely has one. It is not that different across the board.

    If you include C tier builds, sure, we may have 2-3 per class. Just going B tier and up I already eliminated warrior and Mesmer. A tier, I just eliminated guardian. Remaining would be 1 build for rev, 1 for ele, 2 for necro, 1 ranger, 2 for engi (or 3?) and 1, maybe 2, for thief.

    It never was great, but is surely is getting worse.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I see pretty much every class in every game. Except core engie and core ele I think. At this point just play what gives you the more fun.

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sometimes I wish we could roll everything back to just before PoF (keep the feb patch as a PvE split) and just tone down the PoF specs 1 by 1. Then re-evaluate all the reworks that were done in the meantime.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 25, 2020

    @otto.5684 said:
    End of 2018, guardian had between 5-6 meta builds. Before Feb patch it had 2-3 (it depends on how you considered DH). Now it barely has one. It is not that different across the board.

    If you include C tier builds, sure, we may have 2-3 per class. Just going B tier and up I already eliminated warrior and Mesmer. A tier, I just eliminated guardian. Remaining would be 1 build for rev, 1 for ele, 2 for necro, 1 ranger, 2 for engi (or 3?) and 1, maybe 2, for thief.

    It never was great, but is surely is getting worse.

    Every legend is viable in rev, and core/herald/renegade are playable.

    Almost all kinds of necro are playable (except condi reaper, healer reaper, healer core and maybe power core)

    Mesmer has like 5 builds (null field sidenoder, domi cmirage, dueling cmirage, inspi cmirage, inspi core). However it has 0 non-meme power builds.

    Guard has a few builds too, recently there has been a core bunker and a weird condi core build (saw a person with plat badge playing it) builds running around. FB saw play in MOTA and DH is still kind of played, there was a guy playing condi DH that got 5 accs to legendary.

    Warrior has 3 builds, heal spb, power spb and condi berserker.

    Thief has d/p, p/d, maybe s/d. Other builds are pretty meme so I won't count them.

    Engineer, ele and perhaps ranger lacks a 3rd build. They have 1 defensive and 1 offensive builds each.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    class balance is trash. let's face it. but to be fair i havent come across a pvp mode / game that wasn't utterly bad in terms of balance in many years. unless u have these generic shooters where classes dont really exist, then - sometimes - its bearable. beside that this game suffers from the same matchmaker nonsense as overwatch does. every now and then i wonder why anyone plays this mode at all.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @otto.5684 said:
    End of 2018, guardian had between 5-6 meta builds. Before Feb patch it had 2-3 (it depends on how you considered DH). Now it barely has one. It is not that different across the board.

    If you include C tier builds, sure, we may have 2-3 per class. Just going B tier and up I already eliminated warrior and Mesmer. A tier, I just eliminated guardian. Remaining would be 1 build for rev, 1 for ele, 2 for necro, 1 ranger, 2 for engi (or 3?) and 1, maybe 2, for thief.

    It never was great, but is surely is getting worse.

    Every legend is viable in rev, and core/herald/renegade are playable.

    Almost all kinds of necro are playable (except condi reaper, healer reaper, healer core and maybe power core)

    Mesmer has like 5 builds (null field sidenoder, domi cmirage, dueling cmirage, inspi cmirage, inspi core). However it has 0 non-meme power builds.

    Guard has a few builds too, recently there has been a core bunker and a weird condi core build (saw a person with plat badge playing it) builds running around. FB saw play in MOTA and DH is still kind of played, there was a guy playing condi DH that got 5 accs to legendary.

    Warrior has 3 builds, heal spb, power spb and condi berserker.

    Thief has d/p, p/d, maybe s/d. Other builds are pretty meme so I won't count them.

    Engineer, ele and perhaps ranger lacks a 3rd build. They have 1 defensive and 1 offensive builds each.

    Almost all of what you mentioned is C tier builds (Or worse); practically outside of the meta. If the build is not at least B tier, there is not much to talk about. This is not diversity, this is bull kitten.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @otto.5684 said:
    Almost all of what you mentioned is C tier builds (Or worse)

    Except most of them (depending on their role) can 1v1 holo, outsustain scourge, decap ranger/crev etc

    The problem is that they work very badly together. You can't make a team of above builds that will win against the meta comp. They are ranked builds that are pretty good in an unorganized play (in plat at least).

  • Caine.8204Caine.8204 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:
    Almost all kinds of necro are playable (except condi reaper, healer reaper, healer core and maybe power core)

    play wizard amulet with core and become hybrid power/condi. it vastly overpowers the traditional carrion core.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 26, 2020

    @ILiPlaGa.5204 said:
    Why do u have 9 classes if some one of them not playable? You so hard nerf mesmer, and keep do it even if ppl found some not bad option for build. Why i must play some other classes which i not want becouse you so want destroy one of the class for PVP. I am want drop your game, but i know you dont care some one little man. I hope you can see it developers. I love your game but i am done, i want keep play but i cant. Becouse you want me to play other classes. Rly hate... like a kid but drop you!

    What I don't understand is why after seeing there is not mesmer mAt, leaderboard, didn't they put small tweak like +0.25 duration on effects(boon or condi) or +0.05% on damage etc.
    Mean it's nice to get 50% nerf but if it never grow step by step to find a balanced state, it's bad.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @ILiPlaGa.5204 said:
    Why do u have 9 classes if some one of them not playable? You so hard nerf mesmer, and keep do it even if ppl found some not bad option for build. Why i must play some other classes which i not want becouse you so want destroy one of the class for PVP. I am want drop your game, but i know you dont care some one little man. I hope you can see it developers. I love your game but i am done, i want keep play but i cant. Becouse you want me to play other classes. Rly hate... like a kid but drop you!

    What I don't understand is why after seeing there is not mesmer mAt, leaderboard, didn't they put small tweak like +0.25 duration on effects(boon or condi) or +0.05% on damage etc.
    Mean it's nice to get 50% nerf but if it never grow step by step to find a balanced state, it's bad.

    It has spy treatment from TF2. Nobody in their right mind took spy in comp cuz it sucked, but they nerfed it again and again and again and again cuz 12yo kids got stabbed in the back from time to time.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @ILiPlaGa.5204 said:
    Why do u have 9 classes if some one of them not playable? You so hard nerf mesmer, and keep do it even if ppl found some not bad option for build. Why i must play some other classes which i not want becouse you so want destroy one of the class for PVP. I am want drop your game, but i know you dont care some one little man. I hope you can see it developers. I love your game but i am done, i want keep play but i cant. Becouse you want me to play other classes. Rly hate... like a kid but drop you!

    What I don't understand is why after seeing there is not mesmer mAt, leaderboard, didn't they put small tweak like +0.25 duration on effects(boon or condi) or +0.05% on damage etc.
    Mean it's nice to get 50% nerf but if it never grow step by step to find a balanced state, it's bad.

    It has spy treatment from TF2. Nobody in their right mind took spy in comp cuz it sucked, but they nerfed it again and again and again and again cuz 12yo kids got stabbed in the back from time to time.

    Well, to be fair, while Spy was the worst class in comp by far, for one like half of the classes werent really picked in comp (besides Spy we had Sniper, Pyro, who were picked almost never, and Heavy and Engineer which were extremely niche), and also, you shouldnt balance just around the absolute top tier. That being said, nerfs like the Amby nerf were stupid, and with Pyro becoming a lot stronger after jungle inferno, even pub spies feel kinda meh nowadays.

  • ILiPlaGa.5204ILiPlaGa.5204 Member ✭✭
    edited July 27, 2020


    Now i am think shoud i keep play it, i want to learn. But i feel problem with balance, also matchmaking balance.
    So mesmer and war build its what B tier or C tier?

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ILiPlaGa.5204 said:
    So mesmer and war build its what B tier or C tier?

    There are some mesmer builds that are very good but they are probably the hardest ones to play. So skip them.

    Warrior... is meh. I'd say C tier.

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    @ILiPlaGa.5204 said:
    (pic)
    Now i am think shoud i keep play it, i want to learn. But i feel problem with balance, also matchmaking balance.
    So mesmer and war build its what B tier or C tier?

    I love how ranger is the only class which can be can S-tier while using 3 stunbreaks as utilities. Either the whole class is broken, either their stunbreaks are broken.

  • @Aihao.5824 said:
    hugely dissapointed with a meta that feb patch brought to us. Pvp became so dumb that ppl startet to be carried by thair class. Quality of plat 1 is on the level of old g1-2, just because meta. Pvp situation is hugely forgiving for bunkers - u just cant punish them for mistakes, so u cant see difference between good/bad condi revs, renegades, necros, rangers, enjis. Dont understand what kind of drugs devs taken to release this kind of patch. U cant catch node afker on a mistake and kill him quickly, facetanking is a skill now, according to supporters of feb patch. The game is just about meeting with enemy at mid and have endless fight. Influence of feb patch especially feeled at kyhlo or skyhammer, where games ended by the timer, but not by the winner

    Agree, I almost stopped PvP for now. Plat league and soloQ grinding is such a torture.

    The only build actually fun to play must be the holo nades cause this is not about facerollin the keyboard and probably the only build requires to react, and that deals dps without spaming aoe on a node with pure bunker build.

    And still people wants to hard nerf the only thing pvp still has, anyway when ur facing 95% bunker revs, cc spam tempest, dumb necs, invincible rangers and guard, for real kitten with this block spam in this current meta, they dont want ele 10k Hp to spam dodge but guard 10k heavy armor spam block is ok.

    Dont even want to talk about the MEME ele, warriors, mesm and scrapper...

    I thought this balanced patch would changed everything cause the previous OS build oriented meta became extreme, but they just have no idea how to balance bunker builds and they refuse to give any deepss to any class for some reasons.

    I mean, even playing bunker builds during the hard dps meta was fun and could be really high values to your team, now there is no diversity at all, come on devs where are you ?

    Let's go qadim, at least he's no bunkerway.

  • @The Fear.3865 said:
    The only build actually fun to play must be the holo nades cause this is not about facerollin the keyboard and probably the only build requires to react, and that deals dps without spaming aoe on a node with pure bunker build.

    Thats funny.

  • @Spellhunter.9675 said:

    @The Fear.3865 said:
    The only build actually fun to play must be the holo nades cause this is not about facerollin the keyboard and probably the only build requires to react, and that deals dps without spaming aoe on a node with pure bunker build.

    Thats funny.

    Tell me.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 27, 2020

    @Shiyo.3578 said:
    The meta has the same issues the game has had since the dhumfire patch:
    AOE condi spam
    AOE CC spam
    Eng is overpowered and does EVERYTHING(absolutely literally everything) at S tier level.
    Necro is too tanky and easy to play. Zero difference between a good and just installed GW2 2m ago Necro
    Thief has too many evades
    Ranger has too much sustain and it's DPS rotation is mashing every button on it's keyboard with 0 thought. Zero difference between a good and just installed GW2 2m ago ranger(esp condi).
    Pure bunkers are too strong and require 10x the effort to kill than to play.
    Warriors randomly kill you 100% to 0% keeping you stunned the entire time
    Ele gets nerfed over and over due to dumb bunker/support builds and is forever stuck in a bunker/support role
    Mesmers randomly 1 shot you

    The thread title is about the meta and I am talking about the current meta. My post is on topic.

    So you're saying all cooldowns should be increased and encounters last over 5 minutes. Might as well make the game turned based. I don't think this game is for you if you think;

    • AOE condi spam
    • AOE CC spam

    Are a problem, they aren't.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • @ILiPlaGa.5204 said:

    Now i am think shoud i keep play it, i want to learn. But i feel problem with balance, also matchmaking balance.
    So mesmer and war build its what B tier or C tier?

    When you look closer there is no dedicated healer any more in the PvP meta . I tried heal FB and heal warrior before result I can't out heal the dps any more because arena.NET nerfed all the major healing skills while all the build which are meta doing roughly the same DPS as the meta build which were before (outliers excluded).

    This is similar to the boons nerfed they did over time punishing good team work and encourage doing only their solo/ego play thing from the player. I sat out the 2v2 and 3vs3 season but I had never in 3 years a season which were that bad. The team work is so bad it can't be put into words. I honestly can't tell if I'm playing with bots or humans any more.

  • Aihao.5824Aihao.5824 Member ✭✭✭

    @The Fear.3865 said:

    @Aihao.5824 said:
    hugely dissapointed with a meta that feb patch brought to us. Pvp became so dumb that ppl startet to be carried by thair class. Quality of plat 1 is on the level of old g1-2, just because meta. Pvp situation is hugely forgiving for bunkers - u just cant punish them for mistakes, so u cant see difference between good/bad condi revs, renegades, necros, rangers, enjis. Dont understand what kind of drugs devs taken to release this kind of patch. U cant catch node afker on a mistake and kill him quickly, facetanking is a skill now, according to supporters of feb patch. The game is just about meeting with enemy at mid and have endless fight. Influence of feb patch especially feeled at kyhlo or skyhammer, where games ended by the timer, but not by the winner

    Agree, I almost stopped PvP for now. Plat league and soloQ grinding is such a torture.

    The only build actually fun to play must be the holo nades cause this is not about facerollin the keyboard and probably the only build requires to react, and that deals dps without spaming aoe on a node with pure bunker build.

    And still people wants to hard nerf the only thing pvp still has, anyway when ur facing 95% bunker revs, cc spam tempest, dumb necs, invincible rangers and guard, for real kitten with this block spam in this current meta, they dont want ele 10k Hp to spam dodge but guard 10k heavy armor spam block is ok.

    Dont even want to talk about the MEME ele, warriors, mesm and scrapper...

    I thought this balanced patch would changed everything cause the previous OS build oriented meta became extreme, but they just have no idea how to balance bunker builds and they refuse to give any deepss to any class for some reasons.

    I mean, even playing bunker builds during the hard dps meta was fun and could be really high values to your team, now there is no diversity at all, come on devs where are you ?

    Let's go qadim, at least he's no bunkerway.

    Just tried my necro, that i created just to farm pve events, to do some arena, so i just copied metabattle build and randomly pressed buttons, and suddenly enemy condithief just died. I facetank all the damage, could outheal it or avoid through placing wurm or using spectralwalk. Spinal gameplay like world of warcraft has.
    Well i understood that the patch is going to be not ok, cutting by 50% power damage modifiers and cutting hp by 1k is obviously done for forever gold ppl who cant make their deceisions fast enough to influence the game. Now they are not punished for being slow.