And just like that. 2 great builds have vanished. A loss for Build Diversity. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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And just like that. 2 great builds have vanished. A loss for Build Diversity.

JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited July 28, 2020 in WvW

Altruism was one of the few runes with a unique and really interesting mechanic that allowed for the creation of interesting builds. One of these builds most people know about here which is "Altruism Engi" which is a variant on the more traditional meta engi.

But the other build that just got wiped off the face of Tyria, that most didn't even know about was the 0 energy Altruism Heal Rev A competitive cleansing heal rev (that could cleanse more than an ele as much as a scrapper) that i had just made a couple months after Feb patch, and to see it go so soon is incredibly sad.

Build Diversity is on the decline. I've already since quit playing this game and pop into the forums every now and then just to see what is going on...but every time i see an update it just disappoints me to no end. I hope one day we can realize that Build Diversity is more important than balance.

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Comments

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2020

    @Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:
    yeah nah it was stupid as hell. as a sup engi main im pleased to see it gone

    And just because you think something is stupid means it deserves to be removed from the game? i don't see the logic there. I think the current meta is stupid. So am i justified in thinking that the meta should be removed from the game?

    Also what does being a sup engi main have anything to do with this? I've mained sup engi for probably 3 weeks...does that make my opinion anymore valuable than anyone else?

  • misterman.1530misterman.1530 Member ✭✭✭

    Sorry. The Rune effect only triggered on an Elite skill use. Since Elite skills have their own cooldown, not sure how this 10 sec cooldown has any affect. I will admit I know little about Rev mechanics, but how has this change impacted...well...anyone?

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    It was overpowered as hell.

    Overpowered and yet it isn't even in the meta?

    The rune had a trade-off that grounded it... like any other ability that siphons conditions from allies, you had to be able to deal with those conditions on yourself. You could be pulling upwards of 80 stacks of burning...so if you weren't on your toes and paying attention it meant you'd be dead in a split second.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    It was overpowered as hell.

    Overpowered and yet it isn't even in the meta?

    The rune had a trade-off that grounded it... like any other ability that siphons conditions from allies, you had to be able to deal with those conditions on yourself. You could be pulling upwards of 80 stacks of burning...so if you weren't on your toes and paying attention it meant you'd be dead in a split second.

    Are you going by metabattle? because I can tell you, in gvg altu scrapper was seeing a lot of play. The reason it's not meta for WvW public is because it was very easy to kill ones self. Given the average skill of public players...

    Yes, 80 stacks of burning. Big deal while running 1 of the cleanses while keeping the elite pressed. If you died in publics on an altu scrapper your were simply kitten.

    The rune was overpowered in a capable players hands. That's all it takes to get it on the balance radar.

  • @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    It was overpowered as hell.

    Overpowered and yet it isn't even in the meta?

    The rune had a trade-off that grounded it... like any other ability that siphons conditions from allies, you had to be able to deal with those conditions on yourself. You could be pulling upwards of 80 stacks of burning...so if you weren't on your toes and paying attention it meant you'd be dead in a split second.

    dude you knew it was coming... everything about it screamed unintended

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wait why did they kill heal rev?

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you going by metabattle? because I can tell you, in gvg altu scrapper was seeing a lot of play. The reason it's not meta for WvW public is because it was very easy to kill ones self. Given the average skill of public players...

    Honestly, GVG isn't even considered a real game mode in the eyes of Anet. The fact that it's anywhere near criterion for balance decisions is ridiculous. I could understand a balance decision if Altruism was the meta in every single pickup and clouding out every other healer like Ele and Rev and Firebrand because Altruism cleansing was SO VASTLY Overpowered...but I've yet to see that happen.

    The rune was overpowered in a capable players hands. That's all it takes to get it on the balance radar.

    Honestly, anything in a capable players hands can potentially be "overpowered"

    i'm just more surprised that Anet doesn't have the gall to remove Purity of Purpose and instead goes for it's non-meta cousin build....why? because its "op?" since when exactly? since for 3 years now since the rune was introduced? the logic does not make any sense there. And the fact people are okay with this change is again sad. Enjoy stickwars2, where Sneak Gyro Engi is the only support build in the game.

  • @Vova.2640 said:
    This was probably the only "on elite skill use" rune that did not have an ICD. It was clearly an oversight. The ICD was needed as it made scrapper too effective at cleansing condis and converting them to boons by literally spamming one single button.
    Speaking of which, WHERE THE NERF TO PURITY OF PURPOSE!?

    There was quiet a few runes that had no ICD's both before and after the large rune update twoish years ago. Slowly over time the builds that were using things with no ICD (because generally, no ICD's opens up build options, and are generally are more useful...that's why alot of runes saw reductions in ICD's from the big Rune/Sigil Patch) were removed because of a PARTICULAR interaction between one thing and the rune. We saw this happen with Rune of Sanctuary and Rune of Evasion, except in the case of Sanctuary, Anet changed the trait interaction rather than the rune...and guess what...everything turned out fine, and sanctuary still sees use on builds and remains a viable option for many players.

    Rune of Altruism was no where near as bad as the interaction between Sanctuary and Abrasive Grit. Any decent theory-crafter will tell you that Altruism was reminiscent of "Emo bonding" in Gw1. It had the same style of support and if you added an ICD...of any time scale to burning speed in gw1, you would have killed emo bonder, just like how they have now killed these two builds.

  • Jeez.. did you make a scrapper only bcs of this rune or what @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 ? Get over it :´D

  • DeLys.5380DeLys.5380 Member ✭✭

    Sorry, but altruism runes should NEVER have operated like they did on engineers (and, yes I play an engi sometimes, but I never used these runes). That was just a huge bug or coding oversight or something. Glad they finally fixed it and wish I was more surprised that it took them this long to do so. I'm unfamiliar with the other build, but why should anything that is as "great" as you describe cost zero energy to a rev? The entire concept of rev skills is that they cost energy (and, yes, I play a rev sometimes).

    Cheese builds like these that take advantage of broken or overlooked game mechanics are why the WvW game has degenerated so far down the drain.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 28, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you going by metabattle? because I can tell you, in gvg altu scrapper was seeing a lot of play. The reason it's not meta for WvW public is because it was very easy to kill ones self. Given the average skill of public players...

    Honestly, GVG isn't even considered a real game mode in the eyes of Anet. The fact that it's anywhere near criterion for balance decisions is ridiculous. I could understand a balance decision if Altruism was the meta in every single pickup and clouding out every other healer like Ele and Rev and Firebrand because Altruism cleansing was SO VASTLY Overpowered...but I've yet to see that happen.

    Again, in a capable players hands it was doing just that. You can pretend the rune interactions with Purity of Purpose and on the heal scrapper kit in the current meta was not overpowered in your opinion. I'm pretty sure the decision to balance this was based on metrics of fights.

    The build gained traction in the current meta where cleanses have become more important than before the last big balance patch. Which also explains why this synergy was not noticed or addressed earlier.

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    The rune was overpowered in a capable players hands. That's all it takes to get it on the balance radar.

    Honestly, anything in a capable players hands can potentially be "overpowered"

    i'm just more surprised that Anet doesn't have the gall to remove Purity of Purpose and instead goes for it's non-meta cousin build....why? because its "op?" since when exactly? since for 3 years now since the rune was introduced? the logic does not make any sense there. And the fact people are okay with this change is again sad. Enjoy stickwars2, where Sneak Gyro Engi is the only support build in the game.

    See above. The rune gained a lot more attention in the current meta than before.

    Purity of Purpose was already nerfed in the February patch. Having it nerfed again is not out of the question so let;s not hold our breath there, this might still happen. It's still very powerful, even on the "regular" support engi.

    People can be in favor of a change if it is in line with taking out unintended effects like abusing lacking internal cooldowns. You being unhappy about actual balance and removal of oversights which given across the board internal cooldowns is your personal reaction to losing 2 builds you enjoyed. Understandable but hardly a reasonable position to take if balance is the goal.

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    Rune of Altruism was no where near as bad as the interaction between Sanctuary and Abrasive Grit. Any decent theory-crafter will tell you that Altruism was reminiscent of "Emo bonding" in Gw1. It had the same style of support and if you added an ICD...of any time scale to burning speed in gw1, you would have killed emo bonder, just like how they have now killed these two builds.

    Except in this case there was already 2 builds "abusing" the lacking internal cooldown on the rune set. The choices were:

    • change both engineer and revenant (and any potential future class/build which has access to elites without cooldown)
    • change the rune
    • do nothing

    Seems to me like the most reasonable approach was altering the rune. Both in terms of workload, making it future proof as well as overall game balance.

  • @DeLys.5380 said:
    Sorry, but altruism runes should NEVER have operated like they did on engineers (and, yes I play an engi sometimes, but I never used these runes). That was just a huge bug or coding oversight or something. Glad they finally fixed it and wish I was more surprised that it took them this long to do so. I'm unfamiliar with the other build, but why should anything that is as "great" as you describe cost zero energy to a rev? The entire concept of rev skills is that they cost energy (and, yes, I play a rev sometimes).

    Cheese builds like these that take advantage of broken or overlooked game mechanics are why the WvW game has degenerated so far down the drain.

    With the amount of condi spam that exists in this game, you ABSOLUTELY need a build that can remove those conditions as a counter play. That was basically all the build did. The broken mechanic was not the Rune being used to remove conditions, because they were transferred to the Engi and can kill him very easily.

    As for the Rev, if you are spamming Mallyx to transfer hundreds of stacks of conditions to yourself off your team, you better believe that you need all the energy you can get to continually apply resistance to yourself or you are going to be dead in a nano second.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

    @DeLys.5380 said:
    Sorry, but altruism runes should NEVER have operated like they did on engineers (and, yes I play an engi sometimes, but I never used these runes). That was just a huge bug or coding oversight or something. Glad they finally fixed it and wish I was more surprised that it took them this long to do so. I'm unfamiliar with the other build, but why should anything that is as "great" as you describe cost zero energy to a rev? The entire concept of rev skills is that they cost energy (and, yes, I play a rev sometimes).

    Cheese builds like these that take advantage of broken or overlooked game mechanics are why the WvW game has degenerated so far down the drain.

    With the amount of condi spam that exists in this game, you ABSOLUTELY need a build that can remove those conditions as a counter play. That was basically all the build did. The broken mechanic was not the Rune being used to remove conditions, because they were transferred to the Engi and can kill him very easily.

    Yes, all that and the condition conversion, which was the actual reason this was of so much value. Which in this case happened twice, on the target where the initial condition was removed and transferred to the engineer, then again on the engineer when he cleansed the condition off himself.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    It was overpowered as hell.

    Overpowered and yet it isn't even in the meta?

    The rune had a trade-off that grounded it... like any other ability that siphons conditions from allies, you had to be able to deal with those conditions on yourself. You could be pulling upwards of 80 stacks of burning...so if you weren't on your toes and paying attention it meant you'd be dead in a split second.

    Zerg meta =/= gvg meta.

    This is like asking why a nailgun isnt meta when its so much better then a hammer.

    For most situations, a hammer is effectiv enough.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    Wait why did they kill heal rev?

    Not really, they changed altruism rune based on Scrappers and spamming mortar kit

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2020

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    I don't have any views pro or con here, but I have to ask, if a Rune is what makes or breaks a specific build, doesn't that suggest the Rune itself is an issue?

    The first thing is that you see it as an issue to begin with.

    Some mechanics are critical to how a build can function at all in the first place. For example, Smothering Auras and by proxy it’s sister mechanic, Rune of the Trooper (both of which have no ICD btw), allow the current meta ele build to even cleanse conditions at all. Take either one or both of those away and you will effectively and permanently kill Support Ele.

    Likewise Rune of Altruism allows builds like the 0 energy Rev to cleanse enough conditions to be competitive. Take that away and you will like I said earlier, effectively kill the build

    This behavior exists across a number of builds seen not just in gw2 but also in gw1, and the flexibility of such mechanics allow for higher build diversity.

    Again if all you want to play is sneak gyro support scrapper as the only viable support build than be my guest and start nerfing all these seemingly “overpowered mechanics” and give everything in the game a 300 second ICD.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Or just nerf a dodge.
    What?
    I'm still salty!

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    No expansion money as long as Mesmers are trash. - Me

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    I don't have any views pro or con here, but I have to ask, if a Rune is what makes or breaks a specific build, doesn't that suggest the Rune itself is an issue?

    The first thing is that you see it as an issue to begin with.

    Some mechanics are critical to how a build can function at all in the first place. For example, Smothering Auras and by proxy it’s sister mechanic, Rune of the Trooper (both of which have no ICD btw), allow the current meta ele build to even cleanse conditions at all. Take either one or both of those away and you will effectively and permanently kill Support Ele.

    Likewise Rune of Altruism allows builds like the 0 energy Rev to cleanse enough conditions to be competitive. Take that away and you will like I said earlier, effectively kill the build

    Unlike Mortar Kit, Shouts and Fire Auras have Cooldowns so unless they want to put a CD on Mortar kit (Which would be silly with the other kits not having CD anyway) easiest way is to put a ICD on the rune itself.

  • misterman.1530misterman.1530 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:
    yeah nah it was stupid as hell. as a sup engi main im pleased to see it gone

    And just because you think something is stupid means it deserves to be removed from the game? i don't see the logic there. I think the current meta is stupid. So am i justified in thinking that the meta should be removed from the game?

    Also what does being a sup engi main have anything to do with this? I've mained sup engi for probably 3 weeks...does that make my opinion anymore valuable than anyone else?

    It was overpowered as hell.

    Giving the rune set an internal cooldown prevents issues in the future with other elites which might be spam-able.

    As a support engi main myself: yes it was fun, yes it was overpowered as hell, yes it was to be expected that some type of change would be implemented. Holding down the elite skill as much as possible during fights is hardly skill.

    @misterman.1530 said:
    Sorry. The Rune effect only triggered on an Elite skill use. Since Elite skills have their own cooldown, not sure how this 10 sec cooldown has any affect. I will admit I know little about Rev mechanics, but how has this change impacted...well...anyone?

    Equipping and unequipping the mortar kit had no cooldown. Do the connection here.

    I was talking about the rev. Do the connection here.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @misterman.1530 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:
    yeah nah it was stupid as hell. as a sup engi main im pleased to see it gone

    And just because you think something is stupid means it deserves to be removed from the game? i don't see the logic there. I think the current meta is stupid. So am i justified in thinking that the meta should be removed from the game?

    Also what does being a sup engi main have anything to do with this? I've mained sup engi for probably 3 weeks...does that make my opinion anymore valuable than anyone else?

    It was overpowered as hell.

    Giving the rune set an internal cooldown prevents issues in the future with other elites which might be spam-able.

    As a support engi main myself: yes it was fun, yes it was overpowered as hell, yes it was to be expected that some type of change would be implemented. Holding down the elite skill as much as possible during fights is hardly skill.

    @misterman.1530 said:
    Sorry. The Rune effect only triggered on an Elite skill use. Since Elite skills have their own cooldown, not sure how this 10 sec cooldown has any affect. I will admit I know little about Rev mechanics, but how has this change impacted...well...anyone?

    Equipping and unequipping the mortar kit had no cooldown. Do the connection here.

    I was talking about the rev. Do the connection here.

    The rev worked on the same principle. It's clearly visible in the videos that the elite gets triggered nultiple times in short time spans.

  • Spook.5847Spook.5847 Member ✭✭

    @Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:
    yeah nah it was stupid as hell. as a sup engi main im pleased to see it gone

    That would make it in line with most of the game's mechanics then.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is what balance does.... reduce or kills what is to much...

    The less gimmicks builds we have in game the better.... as a support rev myself i alawats the altruismt was to much, pain abosrtion and keep pulling condis with the rune with always perma resistance kinda felt really to much altough some group were so h heavy on condi bunkering and sustain that felt the build was needed once in a while.

    Within this gimmick remover i hope some condi gimmicks are gona get toned down as well.

  • MiniMe.1960MiniMe.1960 Member ✭✭

    Man i saw a lot of boring stuff. You added something new and raised the level. Congratulations for your stamina i guess. Do you guys remember when playing a healer was fun and a challenge? For me it was Guild Wars and Ryzom. kitten i miss my favorite class. What's the chance that we see a new game with a real healer class again guys?

    Veteran Flamer
    100% chance to be right after triggering a rage-whisper

  • @MiniMe.1960 said:

    Man i saw a lot of boring stuff. You added something new and raised the level. Congratulations for your stamina i guess. Do you guys remember when playing a healer was fun and a challenge?

    Thanks I appreciate that. Most if not alll the fun healing builds are gone now. So it’s real sad state of the game. I’ll continue to theorycraft if something new comes along but i have my doubts given the current balance goals of the game.

  • 10 seconds might've been a bit too much for this meta to start with. But the rune definitely deserved a nerf. You could outcleanse any other scrapper by 40% without any issue.

  • @steki.1478 said:
    From spamming water 1 on staff tempest to spamming mortar on scrapper. You always had a sense for quality gameplay.

    I’ve been healing since before you could probably type on a computer...solo healing ICC 10 and 25 man since WoW days on Druid and shaman and played every iteration of competitive healing and a mix of my own creations since GW1. You don’t know what it means to hold halls or have an 8 man depend on you to tank Dhuum, heal your party and keep the grenth spirits alive in a UWSC.

    Even on the now nerfed full heal tempest I could still probably cleanse more conditions than you on your full cleanse whatever tempest. Your “quality gameplay” is my version of casual gameplay

    Proof is all there...maybe you didn’t notice in the video but this is Indo and his guildies. he’s there on the cleanse meter running “your build.” He’s near the bottom....no offense to him he’s a great guy and a great commander...so your gonna have to keep holding your little grudge until you can prove to me what you think quality gameplay is.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:
    I don't have any views pro or con here, but I have to ask, if a Rune is what makes or breaks a specific build, doesn't that suggest the Rune itself is an issue?

    The first thing is that you see it as an issue to begin with.

    Some mechanics are critical to how a build can function at all in the first place. For example, Smothering Auras and by proxy it’s sister mechanic, Rune of the Trooper (both of which have no ICD btw), allow the current meta ele build to even cleanse conditions at all. Take either one or both of those away and you will effectively and permanently kill Support Ele.

    Likewise Rune of Altruism allows builds like the 0 energy Rev to cleanse enough conditions to be competitive. Take that away and you will like I said earlier, effectively kill the build

    Unlike Mortar Kit, Shouts and Fire Auras have Cooldowns so unless they want to put a CD on Mortar kit (Which would be silly with the other kits not having CD anyway) easiest way is to put a ICD on the rune itself.

    Another solution would be to give mortar kit the med kit treatment: make the toolbelt skill count as the elite skill.
    Core elite toolbelt skills all have a fairly long cd, scrapper's function gyro has a minimum cd of 25 seconds. The biggest abuse case would be holosmith with being able to use their photon forge to trigger elite skill effects.

    Which would still be less frequent than letting these effects trigger on mortar kit itself, since photon forge has a 6 seconds cd to leave the mode after activating it and it is also gated by heat.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    From spamming water 1 on staff tempest to spamming mortar on scrapper. You always had a sense for quality gameplay.

    I’ve been healing since before you could probably type on a computer...solo healing ICC 10 and 25 man since WoW days on Druid and shaman and played every iteration of competitive healing and a mix of my own creations since GW1. You don’t know what it means to hold halls or have an 8 man depend on you to tank Dhuum, heal your party and keep the grenth spirits alive in a UWSC.

    Even on the now nerfed full heal tempest I could still probably cleanse more conditions than you on your full cleanse whatever tempest. Your “quality gameplay” is my version of casual gameplay

    Proof is all there...maybe you didn’t notice in the video but this is Indo and his guildies. he’s there on the cleanse meter running “your build.” He’s near the bottom....no offense to him he’s a great guy and a great commander...so your gonna have to keep holding your little grudge until you can prove to me what you think quality gameplay is.

    For being this great, it is sad you are complaining so much about overpowered builds based on unintended interactions getting removed. I would get it if someone who is mediocre at the game complained because his cheese build does not carry him any longer. This, this is just sad.

    Sounds like you play meta scrapper but can’t stand it when someone with anything remotely off meta is able to do more than you can?

    So you cry for nerfs, then the nerfs happen and it’s the creative and the better players that pay the price for that. I’m sure there’s a lot of builds you consider “overpowered.” Maybe that’s the que for you to look into your own performance.

  • @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    From spamming water 1 on staff tempest to spamming mortar on scrapper. You always had a sense for quality gameplay.

    I’ve been healing since before you could probably type on a computer...solo healing ICC 10 and 25 man since WoW days on Druid and shaman and played every iteration of competitive healing and a mix of my own creations since GW1. You don’t know what it means to hold halls or have an 8 man depend on you to tank Dhuum, heal your party and keep the grenth spirits alive in a UWSC.

    Even on the now nerfed full heal tempest I could still probably cleanse more conditions than you on your full cleanse whatever tempest. Your “quality gameplay” is my version of casual gameplay

    Proof is all there...maybe you didn’t notice in the video but this is Indo and his guildies. he’s there on the cleanse meter running “your build.” He’s near the bottom....no offense to him he’s a great guy and a great commander...so your gonna have to keep holding your little grudge until you can prove to me what you think quality gameplay is.

    For being this great, it is sad you are complaining so much about overpowered builds based on unintended interactions getting removed. I would get it if someone who is mediocre at the game complained because his cheese build does not carry him any longer. This, this is just sad.

    Sounds like you play meta scrapper but can’t stand it when someone with anything remotely off meta is able to do more than you can?

    So you cry for nerfs, then the nerfs happen and it’s the creative and the better players that pay the price for that. I’m sure there’s a lot of builds you consider “overpowered.” Maybe that’s the que for you to look into your own performance.

    jesus.. get over yourself man. neither was it far from meta nor was it any more creative than using grenade barrage when it released two skills at the same time or when elementalists meteor showers were so bugged they hit for 15k each hit, Learn to play an actual build

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    From spamming water 1 on staff tempest to spamming mortar on scrapper. You always had a sense for quality gameplay.

    I’ve been healing since before you could probably type on a computer...solo healing ICC 10 and 25 man since WoW days on Druid and shaman and played every iteration of competitive healing and a mix of my own creations since GW1. You don’t know what it means to hold halls or have an 8 man depend on you to tank Dhuum, heal your party and keep the grenth spirits alive in a UWSC.

    Even on the now nerfed full heal tempest I could still probably cleanse more conditions than you on your full cleanse whatever tempest. Your “quality gameplay” is my version of casual gameplay

    Proof is all there...maybe you didn’t notice in the video but this is Indo and his guildies. he’s there on the cleanse meter running “your build.” He’s near the bottom....no offense to him he’s a great guy and a great commander...so your gonna have to keep holding your little grudge until you can prove to me what you think quality gameplay is.

    For being this great, it is sad you are complaining so much about overpowered builds based on unintended interactions getting removed. I would get it if someone who is mediocre at the game complained because his cheese build does not carry him any longer. This, this is just sad.

    Sounds like you play meta scrapper but can’t stand it when someone with anything remotely off meta is able to do more than you can?

    So you cry for nerfs, then the nerfs happen and it’s the creative and the better players that pay the price for that. I’m sure there’s a lot of builds you consider “overpowered.” Maybe that’s the que for you to look into your own performance.

    I didn't cry for nerfs. I understand them. Big difference. I was running altu scrapper the last weeks, I mentioned that. I'm not the one whining in this thread m8 nor am I the one pretending that metabattle defines the meta when a stronger build is available. Altu scrapper was meta by simple reasoning that it was far superior to regular support scrapper.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:
    Learn to play an actual build

    Oh an actual build? You mean the meta support scrapper?

    Been there done that.

    Played it for less than a day after my main got nerfed and was already blowing everyone out of the water in cleansing.but surely that’s not overpowered right?

  • Dagger.2035Dagger.2035 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    I’m sure the other players were just playing the game normally since they weren’t aware a cleansing competition was going on. Meanwhile you’re going all out on cleanses to prove a point.

    Server: Sorrow's Furnace
    Guilds: [DOA] Descendants Of Ascalon, [LOOT] Legendary Order Of Thieves
    Characters: Black Hooded Guardian, Necromancer, Thief, etc.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @Dagger.2035 said:
    I’m sure the other players were just playing the game normally since they weren’t aware a cleansing competition was going on. Meanwhile you’re going all out on cleanses to prove a point.

    This was taken literally my first day playing Scrapper...never played Engi until this day. I can even screen shot the age of my character and you’ll see it was made a few days prior to the February CMC patch, to prove I’m not jocking anyone.

    Point is that some people here think the Rune of Altruism was this OP thing that needs to be nerfed cause it was SO problematic, unintended and made for “stupid” gameplay...yet the Meta build seems to fit that description to a T and I’m being “encouraged” to play that instead.

    So why should anyone here tell me or anyone else to go play “An actual build” aka the meta support scrapper, as if it is somehow the only way to show that you have skill? That playing anything off meta is considered “stupid” or deserving of a nerf just because it doesn’t abide by your “level” of playing standards.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:
    Learn to play an actual build

    Oh an actual build? You mean the meta support scrapper?

    Been there done that.

    Played it for less than a day after my main got nerfed and was already blowing everyone out of the water in cleansing.but surely that’s not overpowered right?

    Was that screenie taken when Antitoxin was a thing with scrappers? Also who knows the fight seemed to have taken a long time so perhaps the other players went out of combat for some time?

  • @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:
    Learn to play an actual build

    Oh an actual build? You mean the meta support scrapper?

    Been there done that.

    Played it for less than a day after my main got nerfed and was already blowing everyone out of the water in cleansing.but surely that’s not overpowered right?

    Was that screenie taken when Antitoxin was a thing with scrappers?

    This was taken on reset the week of the CMC balance patch in February. Antitoxin was nerfed like...more than a year ago.

    In this image I am using the exact meta build from metabattle with the exception of one utility, which was instead of Bulwark Gyro I was using Shredder Gyro. At the time, condo meta became the new hot thing, so as I’m always theorycrafting and tinkering around I was testing the viability of using shredder to cleanse conditions.

    Also who knows the fight seemed to have taken a long time so perhaps the other players went out of combat for some time?

    I get this a lot when people see crazy things on the cleanse meter quote:

    • Everyone else must suck, must be a pug group.
    • Show combat timer
    • probably standing in siege
    • probably NA, come to EU “l o l”

    I’ve heard every reason under the sun why someone will refuse to believe numbers in their face....video, images, doesn’t even matter. You don’t want to believe what you see then try it yourself, you can get these numbers if you play like how I play...but apparently the way I play is too “stupid,” according to some people here.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Pfft he had all the necros in his squad all corrupt themselves after the battle so he could mass cleanse to boost his numbers for a screenshot, not fooling anyone around here with them tactics I tell you!

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    No expansion money as long as Mesmers are trash. - Me

  • Absurd.2947Absurd.2947 Member ✭✭

    Looking at your rev gameplay, you're not even running party view. Are you just spamming skills without even knowing if your party has any conditions on them? Or, are you keeping the tag targeted as an indicator? This actually reminds me off all the burn guards linking arc dps. Thinking being on top matters, when they don't really generate any downeds.

  • Simo.6819Simo.6819 Member ✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    From spamming water 1 on staff tempest to spamming mortar on scrapper. You always had a sense for quality gameplay.

    I’ve been healing since before you could probably type on a computer...solo healing ICC 10 and 25 man since WoW days on Druid and shaman and played every iteration of competitive healing and a mix of my own creations since GW1. You don’t know what it means to hold halls or have an 8 man depend on you to tank Dhuum, heal your party and keep the grenth spirits alive in a UWSC.

    Even on the now nerfed full heal tempest I could still probably cleanse more conditions than you on your full cleanse whatever tempest. Your “quality gameplay” is my version of casual gameplay

    Proof is all there...maybe you didn’t notice in the video but this is Indo and his guildies. he’s there on the cleanse meter running “your build.” He’s near the bottom....no offense to him he’s a great guy and a great commander...so your gonna have to keep holding your little grudge until you can prove to me what you think quality gameplay is.

    Altruism was a broken game mechanic , the 10 seconds icd was deserved , also the fact you are in Indo squad doesnt really tell much , they guy and his guild are very questionable , The Tempest cleansing build still a valid and decent one , surely , you need people with hands to play it.

    but keep it going the popcorn time its quite nice

    Kebab [Kill] - WSR

  • Simo.6819Simo.6819 Member ✭✭

    @Absurd.2947 said:
    Looking at your rev gameplay, you're not even running party view. Are you just spamming skills without even knowing if your party has any conditions on them? Or, are you keeping the tag targeted as an indicator? This actually reminds me off all the burn guards linking arc dps. Thinking being on top matters, when they don't really generate any downeds.

    Party target as support , hell , what ,why do you need party window when you can brainlessy spam your elite and call it gameplay on gw2 forum to flex with others about healing and experience

    Kebab [Kill] - WSR

  • Helicity.3416Helicity.3416 Member ✭✭✭

    And here I was, thinking it was extremely obvious to everyone with a brain that Altruism was not supposed to do what it did.

    I guess I overestimate people.

  • People only took Altruism Rune to flex in Arc DPS .