Can you fix EotM already — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home WvW

Can you fix EotM already

Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

So players in empty servers would have some place to play?

Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

Comments

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No one stops you from playing in EotM.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:
    No one stops you from playing in EotM.

    You won't get pips there. Kind of whole point.

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Magnuzone.8395Magnuzone.8395 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah EotM was created as being said as somewhere for players to fight while waiting to get into WvW. Although it somewhat backfired instead and became a place for more, lets say casual players and drew players from WvW instead. That's when they came up with the idea to make it less desirable. Went there a few times recently just to see and it seemed to be quite active from time to time though.

  • By more casual you mean rank farmers that karma trained day for day.

    Με χίλια ονόματα, μία χάρη, ακρίτας ειτ’ αρματολός, αντάρτης, κλέφτης, παλικάρι; πάντα ειν’ ο ίδιος ο λαός.

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2020

    Point is: EotM scales better with the number of players in non-prime-time.
    The less player WvW has the more important is this advantage.

    It's just impossible to fill 20 (EU) /16 (NA) maps oustside prime.
    So 20 of 24h you play WvW on empty maps.

    EotM on the otherside can scale down to just 1 map outside prime that can be filled.

    Add Pips to EotM outside prime and shutdown WvW ouside prime.

    Then you can play on full maps ouside prime, and WvW becomes more competitive as the off-time score doesn't dominate the match.

  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dayra.7405 said:
    Point is: EotM scales better with the number of players in non-prime-time.
    The less player WvW has the more important is this advantage.

    It's just impossible to fill 20 (EU) /16 (NA) maps oustside prime.
    So 20 of 24h you play WvW on empty maps.

    EotM on the otherside can scale down to just 1 map outside prime that can be filled.

    Add Pips to EotM outside prime and shutdown WvW ouside prime.

    Then you can play on full maps ouside prime, and WvW becomes more competitive as the off-time score doesn't dominate the match.

    So people who don't play prime time won't be able to play in wvw? I think this idea has been rejected so many times for the obvious reason that what you consider 'prime' isn't 'prime' to others, and your suggestion would deny wvw to a large section of the playerbase.

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2020

    @Baldrick.8967 said:

    @Dayra.7405 said:
    Point is: EotM scales better with the number of players in non-prime-time.
    The less player WvW has the more important is this advantage.

    It's just impossible to fill 20 (EU) /16 (NA) maps oustside prime.
    So 20 of 24h you play WvW on empty maps.

    EotM on the otherside can scale down to just 1 map outside prime that can be filled.

    Add Pips to EotM outside prime and shutdown WvW ouside prime.

    Then you can play on full maps ouside prime, and WvW becomes more competitive as the off-time score doesn't dominate the match.

    So people who don't play prime time won't be able to play in wvw? I think this idea has been rejected so many times for the obvious reason that what you consider 'prime' isn't 'prime' to others, and your suggestion would deny wvw to a large section of the playerbase.

    Primetime is not "anyone's primetime" but when many (most) are playing. You can even make it dynamic:
    WvW opens when more than 500 people (sum all 3 sides) are in the queue and shuts down when there are less than 300 left in match+queue.
    (200 ppl difference to avoid an up/down/up/... ).

    And they can play WvW-like in EotM at times where WvW is down, for me on EB-Map put under EotM control as well (I prefer the dynamic mega-server map-instance allocation of eotM, not neccesarily the current EotM-map).

    (And the WvW-dailies need to be adapted, such that you can make all them all in EotM while WVW is down)

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    EoTM was created as an overflow, but did also become a place where people could level up and learn WvW and where people could go if their own server was either crushing it and didn't need more help or if their side wasn't showing up for a fight and they want a better chance of finding even numbers. Now from that you did have some bad eggs that looked to game the system, but these same people could game the WvW system with similar ties and with the goal of just ktraining. So EoTM became the scapegoat to WvW, 'if only our people weren't in EoTM we would have had more and won that fight.'. Some merit there and some not. So the real issue is that when they built the overflow they didn't calculate in the idea to tie the score into the larger WvW scoring because it blended many servers and had multiple instances and the challenges that created in lopsided maps. But.....considering periods that were introduced they could have taken periods as a way to apply score under conditions from EoTM to the regular maps, especially if they regulated how the overflows acquired people. Based on statistics over that period if the sides were in balance then scoring could have been applied and servers under those groups awarded to WvW for that period. If imbalance was in play then scoring would not be applied. This could further have been balanced by not just going with group all the green servers together but a mix of green and red while leaving blues all together. I think players could have handled the differences in their EoTM colors and their regular WvW colors so the mixing argument fell away long ago. By tieing WvW scoring in they could add in gliding, mounts, scoring, pips and rewards and tie back EoTM into regular WvW.

    Alternatively since we have less population now, just bring it in as the fifth map in regular WvW and add said above and we will be even less likely to need an overflow. As a further alternate you could open it up for a 2 hour skirmish if the 3 way match up has queues on all maps. If that triggers a bonus map of EoTM is open for two hours for the three servers to send people to. There are other options outside of these but the point is there could be done more with the map.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    EotM was primarily a karma farm for PvE players. Very rarely did players defend or engage with enemy players. Adding Skirmish rewards would only encourage it to become that again.

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    EotM was primarily a karma farm for PvE players. Very rarely did players defend or engage with enemy players. Adding Skirmish rewards would only encourage it to become that again.

    As nobody is in EotM right now, please explain why you think such changes would make EotM worse?

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dayra.7405 said:
    Point is: EotM scales better with the number of players in non-prime-time.
    The less player WvW has the more important is this advantage.

    It's just impossible to fill 20 (EU) /16 (NA) maps oustside prime.
    So 20 of 24h you play WvW on empty maps.

    EotM on the otherside can scale down to just 1 map outside prime that can be filled.

    Add Pips to EotM outside prime and shutdown WvW ouside prime.

    Then you can play on full maps ouside prime, and WvW becomes more competitive as the off-time score doesn't dominate the match.

    My guess is WvW becomes emptier as people who don't want to play the ktrain map with big pits everywhere just because a big guild on another BL logged off halfway through their night give up the game mode altogether.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    EotM was primarily a karma farm for PvE players. Very rarely did players defend or engage with enemy players. Adding Skirmish rewards would only encourage it to become that again.

    Wait you just described Alpine for any given night coverage.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    EotM was primarily a karma farm for PvE players. Very rarely did players defend or engage with enemy players. Adding Skirmish rewards would only encourage it to become that again.

    As nobody is in EotM right now, please explain why you think such changes would make EotM worse?

    I visited EoTM recently but hadn't been there for a long time due to the fact that it didn't aid my servers scoring. But when there after its initial launches and the period following while overflows were needed it was just like WvW, fights and empty takes just like we see on the regular maps. EoTM had more ambush spots where a few could fight and kill a much larger amount of people due to bottlenecks and that made for some really fun fights. I could see gliding adding in even more a diminish to the fights as well as mounts to a lesser extent with the speed nerfs in place.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2020

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Dayra.7405 said:
    Point is: EotM scales better with the number of players in non-prime-time.
    The less player WvW has the more important is this advantage.

    It's just impossible to fill 20 (EU) /16 (NA) maps oustside prime.
    So 20 of 24h you play WvW on empty maps.

    EotM on the otherside can scale down to just 1 map outside prime that can be filled.

    Add Pips to EotM outside prime and shutdown WvW ouside prime.

    Then you can play on full maps ouside prime, and WvW becomes more competitive as the off-time score doesn't dominate the match.

    My guess is WvW becomes emptier as people who don't want to play the ktrain map with big pits everywhere just because a big guild on another BL logged off halfway through their night give up the game mode altogether.

    emptier than empty? WvW has only some small karma-trains and some solo daily-maker outside prime anymore.
    In fact, before pips got added, EotM was already better for fights in offtime than WvW, and Wvw better for karma-train, for the simple reason: when 30 ppl run around on one map (EotM) they meat more often, then when they run around on 4 maps (WvW) :)

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    EotM was primarily a karma farm for PvE players. Very rarely did players defend or engage with enemy players. Adding Skirmish rewards would only encourage it to become that again.

    There was defenders most of the time. I know. I played EotM 4-8 hours every day for years and defended much more than in normal wvw. I have
    17,666 defended objectives and didn't even play normal wvw between Eotm launch and pips. :D

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Junkpile.7439 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    EotM was primarily a karma farm for PvE players. Very rarely did players defend or engage with enemy players. Adding Skirmish rewards would only encourage it to become that again.

    There was defenders most of the time. I know. I played EotM 4-8 hours every day for years and defended much more than in normal wvw. I have
    17,666 defended objectives and didn't even play normal wvw between Eotm launch and pips. :D

    Yeah, was always fun to solo wipe a whole ktrain of upscaled on some gates. :)

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just bring it into the fold, replace one of the alpine maps with it on a rotations so it swaps out with an alpine map every so often to spice it up. We need more maps which rotate on the weekly reset so that its not all the same, all the time. I think that would be healthy for the borderlands as those who hate Red BL and Edge often stay in EB so like their opinion hardly matters, as they never leave center as is.

    Id love to have more dynamic maps that we can anticipate playing on more regularly, but then I like RvR for what it is and not the moba/battleroyal that everyone wants it to be. And Edge is my favorite map (so many memories)

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2020

    There are a lot of people in this thread that don’t seem to know the purpose of Home BLs and the Eternal Battlegrounds maps.

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Just bring it into the fold, replace one of the alpine maps with it on a rotations so it swaps out with an alpine map every so often to spice it up. We need more maps which rotate on the weekly reset so that its not all the same, all the time. I think that would be healthy for the borderlands as those who hate Red BL and Edge often stay in EB so like their opinion hardly matters, as they never leave center as is.

    Id love to have more dynamic maps that we can anticipate playing on more regularly, but then I like RvR for what it is and not the moba/battleroyal that everyone wants it to be. And Edge is my favorite map (so many memories)

    There would have to be significant changes to EoTM to make it work as a BL map. It isn’t designed in any way to replace an alpine (I.e home BL) map. It’s circular much like EBG. And the core of WvW would fail to flock to EoTM if EBG was deleted.

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    EotM was primarily a karma farm for PvE players. Very rarely did players defend or engage with enemy players. Adding Skirmish rewards would only encourage it to become that again.

    As nobody is in EotM right now, please explain why you think such changes would make EotM worse?

    Please don’t post disingenuous comments. You know the point was it would pull some off WvW for EoTM that actually don’t like ‘fighting’.

    And before you or anyone else state “we played EoTM for fun AND fights” explained why, other than the lack of introducing Pips, it died?

    I would be all for adding back in traditional XP to EoTM and allow all sub level 60 toons to play there. It would be a decent tutorial to basic WvW mechanics and allow for new players to level.

    But skirmish rewards? No. It’s not part of the Mists.

    @Dayra.7405 said:
    Point is: EotM scales better with the number of players in non-prime-time.
    The less player WvW has the more important is this advantage.

    It's just impossible to fill 20 (EU) /16 (NA) maps oustside prime.
    So 20 of 24h you play WvW on empty maps.

    EotM on the otherside can scale down to just 1 map outside prime that can be filled.

    Add Pips to EotM outside prime and shutdown WvW ouside prime.

    Then you can play on full maps ouside prime, and WvW becomes more competitive as the off-time score doesn't dominate the match.

    Because those people who work night shift don’t matter?

    No. I play and have played NA prime all through, and I have no care if someone ‘might caps’ my stuff.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    Please don’t post disingenuous comments.

    My question was serious; just because you disagree with it doesn't make what I asked disingenuous.

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    You know the point was it would pull some off WvW for EoTM that actually don’t like ‘fighting’.

    Ah, an answer to my disingenuous comment!

    To which I will reply: and?

    No really...you have failed to highlight the problem here....

    pull some off WvW for EoTM that actually don’t like ‘fighting’.

    You mean the people who log in with their PvE builds? Who won't join a squad or get on discord, but insist on chasing after the tag? Players who get one pushed, ruin stealth bombs, squirrel after roamers and die, and whose major contribution to the game mode is rallying enemy players, all largely in order to get their dailies done or for a Gift of Battle......those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?

    And that to you is a problem? Fascinating.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2020

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    Please don’t post disingenuous comments.

    My question was serious; just because you disagree with it doesn't make what I asked disingenuous.

    I never said I ‘disagreed‘ with The question. You knew the answer before you asked it. Clearly demonstrated by the following:

    pull some off WvW for EoTM that actually don’t like ‘fighting’.

    You mean the people who log in with their PvE builds? Who won't join a squad or get on discord, but insist on chasing after the tag? Players who get one pushed, ruin stealth bombs, squirrel after roamers and die, and whose major contribution to the game mode is rallying enemy players,

    Thus your last point:

    all largely in order to get their dailies done or for a Gift of Battle......

    FYI: those things can all be done in EoTM now.

    those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?

    Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW.

    And that to you is a problem? Fascinating.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2020

    Eotm wasn't designed to be WvW, only a map where people can go while they wait in Q, so no..it shouldn't get the same rewards as WvW

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It should have own rewards. Like EotM legendaries and stuff.

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    Eotm wasn't designed to be WvW, only a map where people can go while they wait in Q, so no..it shouldn't get the same rewards as WvW

    We have gone thru this circlular argument before.

    It's not WvW.

    What's WvW?
    A place you go to join a team and kill people on the other side. EoTM, check.
    A place where scoring is done on timer and based on PPK and PPT. EoTM, check.
    A place that you need to take down walls and kill a lord and then cap. EoTM, check.
    A place where you can deploy siege. EoTM, check.
    A place where the the scoring from the period adds to your realm. EoTM, nope.

    So the only reason its not WvW is because they never stopped to figure out scoring. Then please fix that or get us the other replacement map for one of the other alpines or bring it up as a fifth map.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2020

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    No. I play and have played NA prime all through, and I have no care if someone ‘might caps’ my stuff

    I don't care about night and I don't care about prime, I stopped worying about 24/7-score since years.

    I play in the morning, and I hate how few people are in wvw as they are distributed over 20 maps (5 tiers each 4 maps)
    I want an EotM back, where you have maps on demand, and you actually meat someone to fight against.

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    A place where the the scoring from the period adds to your realm. EoTM, nope.

    This score is nonsense from a competive point of view, the skirmich score in which you play is the only one intersting.
    The 24/7-score is only used to fine tune balance: better off-time crew goes up, less offtime crew goes down.
    A game-mode where this 24/7 score isn't needed is the better game mode.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    Eotm wasn't designed to be WvW, only a map where people can go while they wait in Q, so no..it shouldn't get the same rewards as WvW

    We have gone thru this circlular argument before.

    It's not WvW.

    What's WvW?
    A place you go to join a team and kill people on the other side. EoTM, check.
    A place where scoring is done on timer and based on PPK and PPT. EoTM, check.
    A place that you need to take down walls and kill a lord and then cap. EoTM, check.
    A place where you can deploy siege. EoTM, check.
    A place where the the scoring from the period adds to your realm. EoTM, nope.

    So the only reason its not WvW is because they never stopped to figure out scoring. Then please fix that or get us the other replacement map for one of the other alpines or bring it up as a fifth map.

    You forgot that WvW is server based and Eotm is all green Vs all blue Vs all red that's not WvW

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    Eotm wasn't designed to be WvW, only a map where people can go while they wait in Q, so no..it shouldn't get the same rewards as WvW

    We have gone thru this circlular argument before.

    It's not WvW.

    What's WvW?
    A place you go to join a team and kill people on the other side. EoTM, check.
    A place where scoring is done on timer and based on PPK and PPT. EoTM, check.
    A place that you need to take down walls and kill a lord and then cap. EoTM, check.
    A place where you can deploy siege. EoTM, check.
    A place where the the scoring from the period adds to your realm. EoTM, nope.

    So the only reason its not WvW is because they never stopped to figure out scoring. Then please fix that or get us the other replacement map for one of the other alpines or bring it up as a fifth map.

    You forgot that WvW is server based and Eotm is all green Vs all blue Vs all red that's not WvW

    Nope. Didn't forget that all. Statistics accounts for answers to that issue. So again the only thing that prevents EoTM from being in WvW is the addition of it in replacement of an alpine map, an addition to the current 4 maps and/or the use of math to allow it to participate in WvW scoring since it is WvW in all other senses of the definition.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dayra.7405 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:
    A place where the the scoring from the period adds to your realm. EoTM, nope.

    This score is nonsense from a competive point of view, the skirmich score in which you play is the only one intersting.
    The 24/7-score is only used to fine tune balance: better off-time crew goes up, less offtime crew goes down.
    A game-mode where this 24/7 score isn't needed is the better game mode.

    I use this as the only example over time that people have been able to pose that EoTM is not WvW since scoring is not rolled into the week therefore should not be upgraded. Which I disagree with since its not rolled in since no one took the time to figure that out. You are arguing for the one of the positive aspects where EoTM is a place that some people did go to fight but might be looking for more even odds. Even last night in WvW there was KTrains in various spots as more than 20+ people would go after objectives that are not defended, and this was in primetime. So the excuse that KTrains only occur in EoTM is plainly false.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?

    Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW.

    Got news for you: These people don't WANT to learn WvW. They don't WANT to play a competitive mode. They want the Gift of Battle ONLY because it's required for their Legendary Fashion Wars hunt.

    Your attempt to get PvE fashionistas to be forced to play WvW in the vain hopes they suddenly want to play the mode seriously is about as sensible as forcing hot dogs down a vegan's throat in the hopes of making them a carnivore. It's rude and ultimately pointless.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?

    Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW.

    Got news for you: These people don't WANT to learn WvW. They don't WANT to play a competitive mode. They want the Gift of Battle ONLY because it's required for their Legendary Fashion Wars hunt.

    Your attempt to get PvE fashionistas to be forced to play WvW in the vain hopes they suddenly want to play the mode seriously is about as sensible as forcing hot dogs down a vegan's throat in the hopes of making them a carnivore. It's rude and ultimately pointless.

    Does WvW have people that are doing it just for GoB, yes. Did EoTM draw those people more than WvW, not sure we could prove that. Did EoTM draw more PvErs? Again not sure there is a way to measure that. Did EoTM convert people to WvW, I think we have seen forum posts on that in the past, so isn't the bigger question is how did it do that? Either way this draws more into the red herring of EoTm should not be in WvW because it might draw people away. So again...fix the exclusion part of this issue.

    As far as the GoB bit.....let's compromise. Give the pure PvErs a way to convert PvE currencies to GoB and give WvWers a way to convert WvW currencies into hearts. Both would be happier. And I say this as a PvXer.

    That said, we need more maps in WvW. It should not take this long when there are new living world season maps at the rate they come out. And no I don't buy into the argument that apline is the model, EBG is far more populated and it doesn't follow that model. The three way maps pull more people since it's better odds of better fights. And since winning means nothing, there is no reason to rotate in and try various map models. We lost a lot of people from boredom of environment over time. That's a big part of the EoTM issue. We have another three way map that is downcast for no other reason outside of the scoring and tie into WvW wasn't figured out.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?

    Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW.

    Got news for you: These people don't WANT to learn WvW. They don't WANT to play a competitive mode. They want the Gift of Battle ONLY because it's required for their Legendary Fashion Wars hunt.

    Your attempt to get PvE fashionistas to be forced to play WvW in the vain hopes they suddenly want to play the mode seriously is about as sensible as forcing hot dogs down a vegan's throat in the hopes of making them a carnivore. It's rude and ultimately pointless.

    Does WvW have people that are doing it just for GoB, yes. Did EoTM draw those people more than WvW, not sure we could prove that. Did EoTM draw more PvErs? Again not sure there is a way to measure that. Did EoTM convert people to WvW, I think we have seen forum posts on that in the past, so isn't the bigger question is how did it do that? Either way this draws more into the red herring of EoTm should not be in WvW because it might draw people away. So again...fix the exclusion part of this issue.

    As far as the GoB bit.....let's compromise. Give the pure PvErs a way to convert PvE currencies to GoB and give WvWers a way to convert WvW currencies into hearts. Both would be happier. And I say this as a PvXer.

    That said, we need more maps in WvW. It should not take this long when there are new living world season maps at the rate they come out. And no I don't buy into the argument that apline is the model, EBG is far more populated and it doesn't follow that model. The three way maps pull more people since it's better odds of better fights. And since winning means nothing, there is no reason to rotate in and try various map models. We lost a lot of people from boredom of environment over time. That's a big part of the EoTM issue. We have another three way map that is downcast for no other reason outside of the scoring and tie into WvW wasn't figured out.

    They can get the GoB in EoTM. Please stop making it sound like they can’t. The REWARD tracks are active there.

    SKIRMISH tracks are the ONLY thing you can’t get in EoTM that you can get in the borderlands.

    The GoB isn’t the issue.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?

    Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW.

    Got news for you: These people don't WANT to learn WvW. They don't WANT to play a competitive mode. They want the Gift of Battle ONLY because it's required for their Legendary Fashion Wars hunt.

    Your attempt to get PvE fashionistas to be forced to play WvW in the vain hopes they suddenly want to play the mode seriously is about as sensible as forcing hot dogs down a vegan's throat in the hopes of making them a carnivore. It's rude and ultimately pointless.

    Does WvW have people that are doing it just for GoB, yes. Did EoTM draw those people more than WvW, not sure we could prove that. Did EoTM draw more PvErs? Again not sure there is a way to measure that. Did EoTM convert people to WvW, I think we have seen forum posts on that in the past, so isn't the bigger question is how did it do that? Either way this draws more into the red herring of EoTm should not be in WvW because it might draw people away. So again...fix the exclusion part of this issue.

    As far as the GoB bit.....let's compromise. Give the pure PvErs a way to convert PvE currencies to GoB and give WvWers a way to convert WvW currencies into hearts. Both would be happier. And I say this as a PvXer.

    That said, we need more maps in WvW. It should not take this long when there are new living world season maps at the rate they come out. And no I don't buy into the argument that apline is the model, EBG is far more populated and it doesn't follow that model. The three way maps pull more people since it's better odds of better fights. And since winning means nothing, there is no reason to rotate in and try various map models. We lost a lot of people from boredom of environment over time. That's a big part of the EoTM issue. We have another three way map that is downcast for no other reason outside of the scoring and tie into WvW wasn't figured out.

    They can get the GoB in EoTM. Please stop making it sound like they can’t. The REWARD tracks are active there.

    SKIRMISH tracks are the ONLY thing you can’t get in EoTM that you can get in the borderlands.

    The GoB isn’t the issue.

    I did not say they can't. I am actually saying GoB's issue is not an EoTM issue, it's an issue of giving people options to play their own game mode and still meet their own in game objectives. I am saying GoB isn't a point on whether EoTM should be brought fully into WvW one way or another.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?

    Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW.

    Got news for you: These people don't WANT to learn WvW. They don't WANT to play a competitive mode. They want the Gift of Battle ONLY because it's required for their Legendary Fashion Wars hunt.

    Your attempt to get PvE fashionistas to be forced to play WvW in the vain hopes they suddenly want to play the mode seriously is about as sensible as forcing hot dogs down a vegan's throat in the hopes of making them a carnivore. It's rude and ultimately pointless.

    Oh well. They ALSO have to raid to get the raid armor.

    Now, if we are going to give raid rewards for strikes, and fractal rewards for dungeons, maybe we can BEGIN to have a conversation.

    I know of several people in my guild alone who started just doing daily’s and a reward track, but have enjoyed it and stuck around.

    They wouldn’t under your idea.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Kylden Ar.3724 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    those are the ones that would get drawn out of WvW and into EoTM, meaning less "greens" around tag and shorter queues?

    Yes. That WOULD be a problem. They won’t be exposed to, nor Learn WvW.

    Got news for you: These people don't WANT to learn WvW. They don't WANT to play a competitive mode. They want the Gift of Battle ONLY because it's required for their Legendary Fashion Wars hunt.

    Your attempt to get PvE fashionistas to be forced to play WvW in the vain hopes they suddenly want to play the mode seriously is about as sensible as forcing hot dogs down a vegan's throat in the hopes of making them a carnivore. It's rude and ultimately pointless.

    Does WvW have people that are doing it just for GoB, yes. Did EoTM draw those people more than WvW, not sure we could prove that. Did EoTM draw more PvErs? Again not sure there is a way to measure that. Did EoTM convert people to WvW, I think we have seen forum posts on that in the past, so isn't the bigger question is how did it do that? Either way this draws more into the red herring of EoTm should not be in WvW because it might draw people away. So again...fix the exclusion part of this issue.

    As far as the GoB bit.....let's compromise. Give the pure PvErs a way to convert PvE currencies to GoB and give WvWers a way to convert WvW currencies into hearts. Both would be happier. And I say this as a PvXer.

    That said, we need more maps in WvW. It should not take this long when there are new living world season maps at the rate they come out. And no I don't buy into the argument that apline is the model, EBG is far more populated and it doesn't follow that model. The three way maps pull more people since it's better odds of better fights. And since winning means nothing, there is no reason to rotate in and try various map models. We lost a lot of people from boredom of environment over time. That's a big part of the EoTM issue. We have another three way map that is downcast for no other reason outside of the scoring and tie into WvW wasn't figured out.

    They can get the GoB in EoTM. Please stop making it sound like they can’t. The REWARD tracks are active there.

    SKIRMISH tracks are the ONLY thing you can’t get in EoTM that you can get in the borderlands.

    The GoB isn’t the issue.

    I did not say they can't. I am actually saying GoB's issue is not an EoTM issue, it's an issue of giving people options to play their own game mode and still meet their own in game objectives. I am saying GoB isn't a point on whether EoTM should be brought fully into WvW one way or another.

    I can agree on that. My apologies for implying you said differently.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    I can agree on that. My apologies for implying you said differently.

    No worries, had to go back an check since I wasn't trying to imply that. This is what comes from posting without coffee.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thing about wvw is that when you learn it and play it some time how it should be played you really wanna unlearn it after that. :D

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • kappre.3897kappre.3897 Member ✭✭

    They can set EOTM up as a weeklong WVW event, kinda like super golem, no down state, etc. All they have to do is figure a way to award pips in the map. They don't have to develop any other features, just pips. The pip amount doesn't even have to be as lucrative as regular wvw, just give pips.

    It'll probably their most popular wvw event, attended by pve casuals and FTPs with multiple instances going at the same time.

  • EOTM was a fun map with some interesting concepts.... it's a shame they are just letting it all go to waste. They COULD add pips to it, but make them move at a slower rate than real maps, and then maybe some sort of currency that's like testimonies/proofs that lets you unlock hearts. That would make it worth it for a lot of people. I'd do it just to skip a few annoying hearts, for sure. I don't really see the issue in pulling people from 'real wvw' if something like this were added, because anyone going to EOTM to participate for reduced pips/currency wouldn't be going to wvw anyway... they'd likely just be in pve. Now, get em hooked on the skirmish chests, and they might very well decide to go into wvw all on their own. Win/win.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am surprised all the people who don't like warclaw/gliders didn't leave regular wvw and play here.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2020

    @zhonnika.1784 said:
    I don't really see the issue in pulling people from 'real wvw' if something like this were added, because anyone going to EOTM to participate for reduced pips/currency wouldn't be going to wvw anyway... they'd likely just be in pve.

    There are plenty of PvE players that do WvW for the pips because they want the ring and legendary armor. Giving these players to earn the pips in a PvE karma farm removes players from WvW.

    Now, get em hooked on the skirmish chests, and they might very well decide to go into wvw all on their own. Win/win.

    Like how strikes got more people into raids? People chase rewards in this game and will generally go with the path that’s the easiest. If they can get all of the farms through a mindless PvE karma farm, then they’ll do that.

    It’s debatable whether EotM got more players into WvW when it was an active PvE karma farm. It certainly didn’t prepare them nor give them an accurate portrayal of WvW.