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  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2020

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    You seem to be taking some real hard offense to these points I'm bringing up and I'm not sure its possible to actually have a constructive discussion with you on this if that is the case. I'm fine with having disagreements, but you seem to be almost literally putting words into my mouth and also seem to be completely misunderstanding or misconstruing things I've posted. I apologize if my point of view offends you, but its a bit unnecessary to have this kind of reaction to it where it seems as if you're assuming I'm being completely vitriolic in regards to the game because I share a different point of view.

    This from someone that got so offended by me saying that GW2 outlived most of its competition in my original comment that he had to misconstrue my whole argument by putting words into my mouth. Anet really has permanent residency in your head.

    I agree we can‘t have a constructive discussion. There‘s no point arguing when you fault Anet for things you personally believe are bad (when the same things literally happen in the same other games you play, yet for some reason it‘s fine there), but don‘t really matter for the game at all. Only a small fraction of the playerbase cares about the game director not being announced. I‘m not even sure if you can call them part of the playerbase, as they‘re not even playing anymore, just being doomers because they can‘t let go. Just face that you aren‘t the target audience, it‘s not that hard. Changing the whole game around to match your personal vision is not something Anet will do. They‘re here to earn money by creating a product that appeals to many, not a singular person. The game is still doing fine and has a future, even if you don‘t want to realize that.

    Edit: It‘s actually so funny to see you try to attribute different content to „casual“ play. Your horizontal progression = makes the game more casual argument is still so wrong. What would you call someone like Asmongold? He doesn‘t really play competitively, doesn‘t really speed through content etc., yet he‘s one of the people I‘d actually call „hardcore“, as he created his whole life and career around WoW.
    Sorry, but I don‘t think consider min/maxxers or people speeding through content „hardcore“. Everyone can follow a guide. The people creating the guide? Those might be the actual hardcore people, the ones doing the number crunching.
    Most self-proclaimed „hardcore“ players aren‘t hardcore at all. They‘re easy to spot, too.

    Alright, well if you can't seem to cease from being vitriolic and have a constructive conversation because you took some apparent extreme offense at me simply, and calmly, pointing out something you said that I felt wasn't entirely accurate. I hope you enjoy the rest of your day/night and that you continue to enjoy GW2.

    Call me vitriolic all you want, as unconstructive as that may be, doesn‘t change that GW2 outlived most of its competitors in the 8 years it has been alive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Don‘t worry about me, I‘ll enjoy todays update as well as future updates and the expansion next year.
    Have a nice day.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    This game as never focused on PvP.

    They focused on it pretty hard when they did the $250.000 tournament.

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    uh... gw2 is obviously a pve game. the very damage system is 100% made for grinding down millions of hp, not balanced pvp game play. all the updates and focus is pve. its the most obvious thing in the world.

    This guy gets it ... because frankly, it's not too difficult to make a PVP game because good PVP games are all about player ability and not differences in weapons/skills. If PVP was the primary focus here, it WOULD be good because the dissatisfying element for PVP in this game is EXACTLY the differences in weapons/skills.

    wait... what. are you agreeing with me on something? its a christmas miracle folks!

    Te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Jekkt.6045Jekkt.6045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2020

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    You seem to be taking some real hard offense to these points I'm bringing up and I'm not sure its possible to actually have a constructive discussion with you on this if that is the case. I'm fine with having disagreements, but you seem to be almost literally putting words into my mouth and also seem to be completely misunderstanding or misconstruing things I've posted. I apologize if my point of view offends you, but its a bit unnecessary to have this kind of reaction to it where it seems as if you're assuming I'm being completely vitriolic in regards to the game because I share a different point of view.

    This from someone that got so offended by me saying that GW2 outlived most of its competition in my original comment that he had to misconstrue my whole argument by putting words into my mouth. Anet really has permanent residency in your head.

    I agree we can‘t have a constructive discussion. There‘s no point arguing when you fault Anet for things you personally believe are bad (when the same things literally happen in the same other games you play, yet for some reason it‘s fine there), but don‘t really matter for the game at all. Only a small fraction of the playerbase cares about the game director not being announced. I‘m not even sure if you can call them part of the playerbase, as they‘re not even playing anymore, just being doomers because they can‘t let go. Just face that you aren‘t the target audience, it‘s not that hard. Changing the whole game around to match your personal vision is not something Anet will do. They‘re here to earn money by creating a product that appeals to many, not a singular person. The game is still doing fine and has a future, even if you don‘t want to realize that.

    Edit: It‘s actually so funny to see you try to attribute different content to „casual“ play. Your horizontal progression = makes the game more casual argument is still so wrong. What would you call someone like Asmongold? He doesn‘t really play competitively, doesn‘t really speed through content etc., yet he‘s one of the people I‘d actually call „hardcore“, as he created his whole life and career around WoW.
    Sorry, but I don‘t think consider min/maxxers or people speeding through content „hardcore“. Everyone can follow a guide. The people creating the guide? Those might be the actual hardcore people, the ones doing the number crunching.
    Most self-proclaimed „hardcore“ players aren‘t hardcore at all. They‘re easy to spot, too.

    Alright, well if you can't seem to cease from being vitriolic and have a constructive conversation because you took some apparent extreme offense at me simply, and calmly, pointing out something you said that I felt wasn't entirely accurate. I hope you enjoy the rest of your day/night and that you continue to enjoy GW2.

    Call me vitriolic all you want, as unconstructive as that may be, doesn‘t change that GW2 outlived most of its competitors in the 8 years it has been alive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Don‘t worry about me, I‘ll enjoy todays update as well as future updates and the expansion next year.
    Have a nice day.

    stating gw2 has outlived "most of its competitors" isn't really correct. i mean, sure, it outlived games like blade and soul or archeage.. but i would not call them real competitors because they weren't even meant to run for a long time. games like those have a lower budget and try to make as much money as possible on release and then are left to die while the studio/publisher rinse and repeat the same formula. out of all its "real" competitors, (WoW, FFXIV, ESO, Wildstar, Runescape? BDO) gw2 really only outlived wildstar which died because of blatant mismanagement and corrupted higher ups. So while yes, gw2 outlived some games, it only really outlived one of its direct competitors as of today.

  • @Rukia.4802 said:
    1 recognized (?) pvp mode

    Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

    GW1 had an actual team.
    however in GW2....yeah sadge and sorrowdge

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2020

    @Jekkt.6045 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    You seem to be taking some real hard offense to these points I'm bringing up and I'm not sure its possible to actually have a constructive discussion with you on this if that is the case. I'm fine with having disagreements, but you seem to be almost literally putting words into my mouth and also seem to be completely misunderstanding or misconstruing things I've posted. I apologize if my point of view offends you, but its a bit unnecessary to have this kind of reaction to it where it seems as if you're assuming I'm being completely vitriolic in regards to the game because I share a different point of view.

    This from someone that got so offended by me saying that GW2 outlived most of its competition in my original comment that he had to misconstrue my whole argument by putting words into my mouth. Anet really has permanent residency in your head.

    I agree we can‘t have a constructive discussion. There‘s no point arguing when you fault Anet for things you personally believe are bad (when the same things literally happen in the same other games you play, yet for some reason it‘s fine there), but don‘t really matter for the game at all. Only a small fraction of the playerbase cares about the game director not being announced. I‘m not even sure if you can call them part of the playerbase, as they‘re not even playing anymore, just being doomers because they can‘t let go. Just face that you aren‘t the target audience, it‘s not that hard. Changing the whole game around to match your personal vision is not something Anet will do. They‘re here to earn money by creating a product that appeals to many, not a singular person. The game is still doing fine and has a future, even if you don‘t want to realize that.

    Edit: It‘s actually so funny to see you try to attribute different content to „casual“ play. Your horizontal progression = makes the game more casual argument is still so wrong. What would you call someone like Asmongold? He doesn‘t really play competitively, doesn‘t really speed through content etc., yet he‘s one of the people I‘d actually call „hardcore“, as he created his whole life and career around WoW.
    Sorry, but I don‘t think consider min/maxxers or people speeding through content „hardcore“. Everyone can follow a guide. The people creating the guide? Those might be the actual hardcore people, the ones doing the number crunching.
    Most self-proclaimed „hardcore“ players aren‘t hardcore at all. They‘re easy to spot, too.

    Alright, well if you can't seem to cease from being vitriolic and have a constructive conversation because you took some apparent extreme offense at me simply, and calmly, pointing out something you said that I felt wasn't entirely accurate. I hope you enjoy the rest of your day/night and that you continue to enjoy GW2.

    Call me vitriolic all you want, as unconstructive as that may be, doesn‘t change that GW2 outlived most of its competitors in the 8 years it has been alive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Don‘t worry about me, I‘ll enjoy todays update as well as future updates and the expansion next year.
    Have a nice day.

    stating gw2 has outlived "most of its competitors" isn't really correct. i mean, sure, it outlived games like blade and soul or archeage.. but i would not call them real competitors because they weren't even meant to run for a long time. games like those have a lower budget and try to make as much money as possible on release and then are left to die while the studio/publisher rinse and repeat the same formula. out of all its "real" competitors, (WoW, FFXIV, ESO, Wildstar, Runescape? BDO) gw2 really only outlived wildstar which died because of blatant mismanagement and corrupted higher ups. So while yes, gw2 outlived some games, it only really outlived one of its direct competitors as of today.

    BnS and AA are still running, so they don't really fit into your description. I also wouldn't call those two low budget games, especially since one even got a whole Anime to promote the game. But if you got a list with the different budget sizes, feel free to share, I'd be interested to see the games compared to each other.

    Every MMORPG is a direct competitor, even if you personally don't see it like that. Games like Bless and FireFall still count.

    A racer in formula 1 is still a competitor, even if he DNF. Or would you call those ones not "real" competitors?

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    This game as never focused on PvP.

    They focused on it pretty hard when they did the $250.000 tournament.

    That's not a development focus ... and that is what is being discussed.

    I am aware of what is being discussed... and my point stands.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    This game as never focused on PvP.

    They focused on it pretty hard when they did the $250.000 tournament.

    That's not a development focus ... and that is what is being discussed.

    I am aware of what is being discussed... and my point stands.

    No it doesn't because we are talking about game development focus ... and your point is about marketing focus.

    No, it is not just about development focus, it is also about focus in general.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    This game as never focused on PvP.

    They focused on it pretty hard when they did the $250.000 tournament.

    That's not a development focus ... and that is what is being discussed.

    I am aware of what is being discussed... and my point stands.

    No it doesn't because we are talking about game development focus ... and your point is about marketing focus.

    No, it is not just about development focus, it is also about focus in general.

    That doesn't make sense. The comment you were referring to is about how the game is developed. Nothing else.

    If you had read the quote I quoted that referred to FOCUS on PvP then maybe it would have made sense to you....

    I did read ... I also read the rest of the thread. It's clear that the poster you were replying to was talking about game development and not marketing.

    It was clear he was talking about focus...

    Yup ... Game development focus on PVE vs. PVP, not marketing. I suggest the next time you don't just chop a single sentence from people's posts to make irrelevant statements.

    I suggest you report my post then since you seem to have such an issue with it.

  • Vavume.8065Vavume.8065 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Vavume.8065 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    This game as never focused on PvP.

    They focused on it pretty hard when they did the $250.000 tournament.

    That's not a development focus ... and that is what is being discussed.

    I am aware of what is being discussed... and my point stands.

    No it doesn't because we are talking about game development focus ... and your point is about marketing focus.

    No, it is not just about development focus, it is also about focus in general.

    That doesn't make sense. The comment you were referring to is about how the game is developed. Nothing else.

    If you had read the quote I quoted that referred to FOCUS on PvP then maybe it would have made sense to you....

    I did read ... I also read the rest of the thread. It's clear that the poster you were replying to was talking about game development and not marketing.

    It was clear he was talking about focus...

    Yup ... Game development focus on PVE vs. PVP, not marketing. I suggest the next time you don't just chop a single sentence from people's posts to make irrelevant statements.

    I suggest you report my post then since you seem to have such an issue with it.

    I don't think that's necessary ... just some correction was in order to make sure there is no misunderstanding or confusion.

    You have not corrected me.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Rukia.4802 said:
    1 recognized (?) pvp mode

    Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

    Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

    Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

    Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?
    https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2

    Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

    I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

    You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

    Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

    Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

    You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

    This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

    You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

    Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

    It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

    E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Rukia.4802 said:
    1 recognized (?) pvp mode

    Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

    Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

    Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

    Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?
    https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2

    Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

    I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

    You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

    Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

    Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

    You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

    This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

    You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

    Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

    It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

    E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

    You've said it yourself. For many many years now, the main focus of development has been story, meta events, dynamic events, and the occasional fractal. That's pretty much it. But back in the days of Season 1 of the Living World. PvE was getting content every two weeks and all I heard, even back then, were PvPers who felt abandoned by the company. You can write as many paragraphs as you like but the PvE focus has been here since Season 1, when PvE was getting the vast majority of updates.

    Edit: Traditional end game definitions NEVER applied to this game. The game didn't launch with raids. The devs themselves said they considered the three Orr zones end game. Dungeons too were obviously end game, but it wasn't what the devs were talking about, when they talked about the game, at least not by percentage of time. In HoT, zone metas were considered end game and still probably are for most people. Raids and Fractals are the instanced end game, but this game has been focused more on the open world.

    Which simply is why its doomed to not live as long as the competition. If End of dragons doesn't do well I wont be surprised if NCsoft pulls the plug, they've done so to games more successful for less.

    Except we aren't talking about whether End of Dragons doing well or not is the end of the game ...we are talking about the PVE focus of GW2. So far ... that's worked for them. Put it this way ... if Anet WAS to change gears and start focusing on the competitive aspects of the game at the expense of PVE ... the game would be FAR shorter lived than if they continued down the current PVE focused path.

    I mean, you are fearmongering; if Anet doesn't accept a more traditional MMO approach the game will be doomed. Except that ignores the inevitable demise of the game in the first place. The question isn't IF it happens, it's when it happens. I'm willing to bet that even in 'maintenance' mode ... GW2 is still way more successful as a PVE focused game than a competitive one. Why? because that focus was why it's successful to begin with.

    I loathe you to the core. But you took everything I said out of context, I Want PvP and WvW to have support. Not for it to be a focus, but we do deserve and need a new map and some updates to those game types. Just because you don't play or like them doesn't mean they should be abandoned; What A-net needs to quit doing is adding game modes and abandoning them and consolidate some. PvP isn't something they wana dev for? Role it into WvW somehow. Raids/strikes/visions are not something they want to do? Role them into dragon response missions/fractals. Consolidate and streamline it, the game was meant and built for Five man parties on launch and that was the gameplay that was intended AT THE CORE OF THE GAME. Raids went against this so repurpose those encounters and turn them into something new, and return to where your focus was. Raids clearly never were going to work but that DOESN'T mean you should leave that content to rot in a place, where most players wont even bother going in the first dang place.

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Rukia.4802 said:
    1 recognized (?) pvp mode

    Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

    Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

    Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

    Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?
    https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2

    Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

    I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

    You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

    Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

    Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

    You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

    This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

    You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

    Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

    It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

    E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Rukia.4802 said:
    1 recognized (?) pvp mode

    Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

    Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

    Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

    Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?
    https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2

    Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

    I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

    You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

    Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

    Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

    You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

    This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

    You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

    Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

    It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

    E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

    You've said it yourself. For many many years now, the main focus of development has been story, meta events, dynamic events, and the occasional fractal. That's pretty much it. But back in the days of Season 1 of the Living World. PvE was getting content every two weeks and all I heard, even back then, were PvPers who felt abandoned by the company. You can write as many paragraphs as you like but the PvE focus has been here since Season 1, when PvE was getting the vast majority of updates.

    Edit: Traditional end game definitions NEVER applied to this game. The game didn't launch with raids. The devs themselves said they considered the three Orr zones end game. Dungeons too were obviously end game, but it wasn't what the devs were talking about, when they talked about the game, at least not by percentage of time. In HoT, zone metas were considered end game and still probably are for most people. Raids and Fractals are the instanced end game, but this game has been focused more on the open world.

    Which simply is why its doomed to not live as long as the competition. If End of dragons doesn't do well I wont be surprised if NCsoft pulls the plug, they've done so to games more successful for less.

    Or it found an audience that likes it the way it is and changing it will kill that audience without ever finding the new audience which does everything the way everyone else does. I'm here, specifically because this is different from most MMOs. THis is the reason I play. There are two MMOs that have come out around the same time this one has that are as or more successful and many have come out. Of those two, both are older, bigger names with more games before it and both have console versions. ESO wasn't doing better before it had console versions. At best it was running about even. So you have Final Fantasy XIV the XIVth of it's na;me, that already had a movie made of it, that blew it when it came out and had to completely redo itself.

    At this time Final Fantasy is the only game even close to challenging WoW, but it has the Final Fantasy franchise behind it, it has console versions, it has a longer history of a more popular series. Beyond that this game has been successful it it will likely continue to be, even if it isn't the game you want to play. You're making a definitive statement. That this game would b;e more popular if this just changed it to this. The way you like it. But there are plenty of games that are more focused on raids or PvP and those games havent' done as well as this game. There's a lot more at stake here when you change a product while ignoring the fan base that followed to product to where it was.

    When did this game take it's biggest hit. When HoT came out. When they pissed off their largest and most dedicated audience to add raids and make hard open world and add PvP tournaments. IN the 9 months after HoT, PvP and Raids were the only updates. And after it all changed. Now if that made money, why would they change it? It didn't make money, it LOST money for the company and the company hadn't ever really recovered from it, because they lost part of their biggest player base to cater to a smaller playerbase. How do I know?

    Because Anet came back and took a quarterly update to rein HoT back in. They stopped support raids as much and PvP. They came out with POF which was easier in the open world, with an easier story, with less grindy masteries, with bounties that weren't on timers...essentially it's the anti-HoT. IT's everything that HoT didn't do. The zones aren't as vertical or confusing. The grind is less, you can finish it faster.

    And some hard core players claim HoT was better, but you'd never know due to the support it got from the fan base, because the fan base that plays the game casually might not post on Reddit or the official forums. This game spent 3.5 years filtering out hard core players, tried to get them back with HOT and it didn't work. They didn't gain enough hard core players they just lost a decent percentage of their casuals. The reason why the game is the way it is is because the core playerbase wants what it wants, and people who wan't something else don't understand what they see in it. This game is being made right now for people like me, and adding more PvP won't affect me and adding more raids won't affect me, except to see rewards placed behind those that I'm not likely to get. I'm still a bit bitter about legendary armor, considering I have 29 legendary weapons and 2 legendary trinkets, but I don't want to raid. And now it looks like there might be no more raids. I knew this would happen ages ago and said so. I was hardly the only voice raised against bringing raids into the game. Because the game didn't ramp up to them. You don't just make something because X guy will like it, if it's going to kitten off Y guy who is a loyal fan already. Anet has done that and it's cost them.

    I was one of the people peeved about raids, I was one of the people who did wing one and didn't like it and was against their inception from the start. I raged on A-net for years about their poor decision, but that doesn't mean abandon the content that THEY pushed and garnered love for? Then why bother making ANY new modes, stick to what works and as I Said above consolidate it. Because right now we have so many game modes that don't even need to exist, such as dungeons, raids, strikes which could honestly be rolled into fractals and their rewards put there as well. The game was built from the ground up at its core for Five man parties when in PvE and that is where the strongest PvE encounters exist; Which is why fractals will always likely trump raids in popularity and I dont even do those as regularly as I probably should.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2020

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    I loathe you to the core. But you took everything I said out of context, I Want PvP and WvW to have support. Not for it to be a focus, but we do deserve and need a new map and some updates to those game types. Just because you don't play or like them doesn't mean they should be abandoned; What A-net needs to quit doing is adding game modes and abandoning them and consolidate some. PvP isn't something they wana dev for? Role it into WvW somehow. Raids/strikes/visions are not something they want to do? Role them into dragon response missions/fractals. Consolidate and streamline it, the game was meant and built for Five man parties on launch and that was the gameplay that was intended AT THE CORE OF THE GAME. Raids went against this so repurpose those encounters and turn them into something new, and return to where your focus was. Raids clearly never were going to work but that DOESN'T mean you should leave that content to rot in a place, where most players wont even bother going in the first dang place.

    No one said abandon ... but the concept that PVP/WvW 'deserve' something is simply based on it's value to the game, not just for players but for Anet too. Everything you say they should do ... is a cost with little value to players. Consolidation of this mode to that mode or content from here to there ... that's not going to compel ANY player to spend on the game; it's not new, it's just work to move things around ... for little reason. Consolidation is actually WORSE for everyone involved than simply leaving it the way it is because of the cost to Anet and no-value changes to the game for players.

    So basically .. yeah ... some content DOES rot in place because it's obsolete and no, there should be no reason for Anet to add cost to do anything with it. That's not even an GW2 thing ... LOTS of games have old content that literally just sit there. It's up the to the players to interact with that content, not Anet to force it in people's faces with moving and whatever. You don't realize it but you are advocating that Anet waste a bunch of resources to move dead content around ... over creating and releasing new content. That's just bad.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Rukia.4802 said:
    1 recognized (?) pvp mode

    Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

    Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

    Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

    Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?
    https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2

    Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

    I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

    You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

    Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

    Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

    You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

    This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

    You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

    Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

    It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

    E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Rukia.4802 said:
    1 recognized (?) pvp mode

    Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

    Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

    Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

    Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?
    https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2

    Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

    I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

    You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

    Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

    Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

    You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

    This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

    You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

    Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

    It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

    E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

    You've said it yourself. For many many years now, the main focus of development has been story, meta events, dynamic events, and the occasional fractal. That's pretty much it. But back in the days of Season 1 of the Living World. PvE was getting content every two weeks and all I heard, even back then, were PvPers who felt abandoned by the company. You can write as many paragraphs as you like but the PvE focus has been here since Season 1, when PvE was getting the vast majority of updates.

    Edit: Traditional end game definitions NEVER applied to this game. The game didn't launch with raids. The devs themselves said they considered the three Orr zones end game. Dungeons too were obviously end game, but it wasn't what the devs were talking about, when they talked about the game, at least not by percentage of time. In HoT, zone metas were considered end game and still probably are for most people. Raids and Fractals are the instanced end game, but this game has been focused more on the open world.

    Which simply is why its doomed to not live as long as the competition. If End of dragons doesn't do well I wont be surprised if NCsoft pulls the plug, they've done so to games more successful for less.

    Except we aren't talking about whether End of Dragons doing well or not is the end of the game ...we are talking about the PVE focus of GW2. So far ... that's worked for them. Put it this way ... if Anet WAS to change gears and start focusing on the competitive aspects of the game at the expense of PVE ... the game would be FAR shorter lived than if they continued down the current PVE focused path.

    I mean, you are fearmongering; if Anet doesn't accept a more traditional MMO approach the game will be doomed. Except that ignores the inevitable demise of the game in the first place. The question isn't IF it happens, it's when it happens. I'm willing to bet that even in 'maintenance' mode ... GW2 is still way more successful as a PVE focused game than a competitive one. Why? because that focus was why it's successful to begin with.

    I loathe you to the core. But you took everything I said out of context, I Want PvP and WvW to have support. Not for it to be a focus, but we do deserve and need a new map and some updates to those game types. Just because you don't play or like them doesn't mean they should be abandoned; What A-net needs to quit doing is adding game modes and abandoning them and consolidate some. PvP isn't something they wana dev for? Role it into WvW somehow. Raids/strikes/visions are not something they want to do? Role them into dragon response missions/fractals. Consolidate and streamline it, the game was meant and built for Five man parties on launch and that was the gameplay that was intended AT THE CORE OF THE GAME. Raids went against this so repurpose those encounters and turn them into something new, and return to where your focus was. Raids clearly never were going to work but that DOESN'T mean you should leave that content to rot in a place, where most players wont even bother going in the first dang place.

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Rukia.4802 said:
    1 recognized (?) pvp mode

    Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

    Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

    Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

    Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?
    https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2

    Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

    I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

    You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

    Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

    Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

    You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

    This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

    You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

    Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

    It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

    E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Rukia.4802 said:
    1 recognized (?) pvp mode

    Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

    Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

    Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

    Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?
    https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2

    Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

    I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

    You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

    Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

    Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

    You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

    This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

    You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

    Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

    It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

    E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

    You've said it yourself. For many many years now, the main focus of development has been story, meta events, dynamic events, and the occasional fractal. That's pretty much it. But back in the days of Season 1 of the Living World. PvE was getting content every two weeks and all I heard, even back then, were PvPers who felt abandoned by the company. You can write as many paragraphs as you like but the PvE focus has been here since Season 1, when PvE was getting the vast majority of updates.

    Edit: Traditional end game definitions NEVER applied to this game. The game didn't launch with raids. The devs themselves said they considered the three Orr zones end game. Dungeons too were obviously end game, but it wasn't what the devs were talking about, when they talked about the game, at least not by percentage of time. In HoT, zone metas were considered end game and still probably are for most people. Raids and Fractals are the instanced end game, but this game has been focused more on the open world.

    Which simply is why its doomed to not live as long as the competition. If End of dragons doesn't do well I wont be surprised if NCsoft pulls the plug, they've done so to games more successful for less.

    Or it found an audience that likes it the way it is and changing it will kill that audience without ever finding the new audience which does everything the way everyone else does. I'm here, specifically because this is different from most MMOs. THis is the reason I play. There are two MMOs that have come out around the same time this one has that are as or more successful and many have come out. Of those two, both are older, bigger names with more games before it and both have console versions. ESO wasn't doing better before it had console versions. At best it was running about even. So you have Final Fantasy XIV the XIVth of it's na;me, that already had a movie made of it, that blew it when it came out and had to completely redo itself.

    At this time Final Fantasy is the only game even close to challenging WoW, but it has the Final Fantasy franchise behind it, it has console versions, it has a longer history of a more popular series. Beyond that this game has been successful it it will likely continue to be, even if it isn't the game you want to play. You're making a definitive statement. That this game would b;e more popular if this just changed it to this. The way you like it. But there are plenty of games that are more focused on raids or PvP and those games havent' done as well as this game. There's a lot more at stake here when you change a product while ignoring the fan base that followed to product to where it was.

    When did this game take it's biggest hit. When HoT came out. When they pissed off their largest and most dedicated audience to add raids and make hard open world and add PvP tournaments. IN the 9 months after HoT, PvP and Raids were the only updates. And after it all changed. Now if that made money, why would they change it? It didn't make money, it LOST money for the company and the company hadn't ever really recovered from it, because they lost part of their biggest player base to cater to a smaller playerbase. How do I know?

    Because Anet came back and took a quarterly update to rein HoT back in. They stopped support raids as much and PvP. They came out with POF which was easier in the open world, with an easier story, with less grindy masteries, with bounties that weren't on timers...essentially it's the anti-HoT. IT's everything that HoT didn't do. The zones aren't as vertical or confusing. The grind is less, you can finish it faster.

    And some hard core players claim HoT was better, but you'd never know due to the support it got from the fan base, because the fan base that plays the game casually might not post on Reddit or the official forums. This game spent 3.5 years filtering out hard core players, tried to get them back with HOT and it didn't work. They didn't gain enough hard core players they just lost a decent percentage of their casuals. The reason why the game is the way it is is because the core playerbase wants what it wants, and people who wan't something else don't understand what they see in it. This game is being made right now for people like me, and adding more PvP won't affect me and adding more raids won't affect me, except to see rewards placed behind those that I'm not likely to get. I'm still a bit bitter about legendary armor, considering I have 29 legendary weapons and 2 legendary trinkets, but I don't want to raid. And now it looks like there might be no more raids. I knew this would happen ages ago and said so. I was hardly the only voice raised against bringing raids into the game. Because the game didn't ramp up to them. You don't just make something because X guy will like it, if it's going to kitten off Y guy who is a loyal fan already. Anet has done that and it's cost them.

    I was one of the people peeved about raids, I was one of the people who did wing one and didn't like it and was against their inception from the start. I raged on A-net for years about their poor decision, but that doesn't mean abandon the content that THEY pushed and garnered love for? Then why bother making ANY new modes, stick to what works and as I Said above consolidate it. Because right now we have so many game modes that don't even need to exist, such as dungeons, raids, strikes which could honestly be rolled into fractals and their rewards put there as well. The game was built from the ground up at its core for Five man parties when in PvE and that is where the strongest PvE encounters exist; Which is why fractals will always likely trump raids in popularity and I dont even do those as regularly as I probably should.

    On the subject of raids, they pushed them, the community rejected them and so they backed off. If everyone was doing raids, they'd be making more of them. Anet doesn't have to support stuff that not enough of the community takes up.