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Imagine having an MMO 8 years old


Rukia.4802

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Imagine splitting the small playerbase so that people can have the illusion of choice.Or do you think it would get more people to play?

Look at festivals. Look at the activities there. They're empty, because they're not interesting enough to keep people playing them without rewards. That's how alternate modes will look too.

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@Blocki.4931 said:Imagine splitting the small playerbase so that people can have the illusion of choice.Or do you think it would get more people to play?

Look at festivals. Look at the activities there. They're empty, because they're not interesting enough to keep people playing them without rewards. That's how alternate modes will look too.

You can't compare Pve to pvp, Pve has the big player base we're the big money is to make, the most efficient way, that's with pvp not the case

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@Avatar.3568 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:Imagine splitting the small playerbase so that people can have the illusion of choice.Or do you think it would get more people to play?

Look at festivals. Look at the activities there. They're empty, because they're not interesting enough to keep people playing them without rewards. That's how alternate modes will look too.

You can't compare Pve to pvp, Pve has the big player base we're the big money is to make, the most efficient way, that's with pvp not the case

Yet PvP offers that continuity, keeping the player connected until late times, after legendaries are crafted, raids are completed, and he/she wishes to spike adrenaline.

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@Rukia.4802 said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

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@wevh.2903 said:This is ridiculous , lol has one competitive map xdd the point is switching the meta and playstyle

HAHAHAHA are you serious? what an argumentLoL is a moba, it has only one map because that's the game. 3 lanes, jungles and 2 bases, same as DotA.

World of Warcraft is a MMO just like GW2... still, WoW has capture the flag, conquest, king of the hill, arena, etc. lots of game modes :)

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@Zawn.9647 said:

@wevh.2903 said:This is ridiculous , lol has one competitive map xdd the point is switching the meta and playstyle

HAHAHAHA are you serious? what an argumentLoL is a moba, it has only one map because that's the game. 3 lanes, jungles and 2 bases, same as DotA.

World of Warcraft is a MMO just like GW2... still, WoW has capture the flag, conquest, king of the hill, arena, etc. lots of game modes :)

As lol has 3 lanes , gw2 has three points and a secondary objetive thats the game and balance should be made around it .Gw2 pvp is totally different of other mmos

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@wevh.2903 said:

@wevh.2903 said:This is ridiculous , lol has one competitive map xdd the point is switching the meta and playstyle

HAHAHAHA are you serious? what an argumentLoL is a moba, it has only one map because that's the game. 3 lanes, jungles and 2 bases, same as DotA.

World of Warcraft is a MMO just like GW2... still, WoW has capture the flag, conquest, king of the hill, arena, etc. lots of game modes :)

As lol has 3 lanes , gw2 has three points and a secondary objetive thats the game and balance should be made around it .Gw2 pvp is totally different of other mmos

rofl okif you want to compare apples to dogs, (not even oranges) go ahead :)

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SPvP was a mistake to begin with. Should of been GvG/Alliance battles like the original game. Reinforcing guild importance and guild play, as well you could of added a mercenary feature where you "hire yourself out" to a guild when they need more people for a guild battle/alliance battle and get unique rewards. This way even if you're NOT IN A GUILD and DONT LIKE GUILDS you could get something from it.

All Spvp seems to be a botched version of other PvP games, with MoBa's being the last addition~

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

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@Zawn.9647 said:

@wevh.2903 said:This is ridiculous , lol has one competitive map xdd the point is switching the meta and playstyle

HAHAHAHA are you serious? what an argumentLoL is a moba, it has only one map because that's the game. 3 lanes, jungles and 2 bases, same as DotA.

World of Warcraft is a MMO just like GW2... still, WoW has capture the flag, conquest, king of the hill, arena, etc. lots of game modes :)

Arena is the only mode people care about in WoW, and WoW's PvP balance is atrocious right now. Even rated BGs are totally unimportant.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

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@Zawn.9647 said:

@wevh.2903 said:This is ridiculous , lol has one competitive map xdd the point is switching the meta and playstyle

HAHAHAHA are you serious? what an argumentLoL is a moba, it has only one map because that's the game. 3 lanes, jungles and 2 bases, same as DotA.

World of Warcraft is a MMO just like GW2... still, WoW has capture the flag, conquest, king of the hill, arena, etc. lots of game modes :)

LMAO

WoW has 2 pvp modes - BGs and Arena (both having rated version). EoT.

By you logic GW2 also has MobA-style PvP with 2 lanes, Domination-style PvP, large scale PvP (WvW), Capture the Flag PvP (the one unranked map where u are carrying white orb for extra points), castle defense and huge amount of PvP modes in festivals.

Does all that matter? No? So does all the pvp modes in WoW - the only end-game, legit PvP there is Rated Arena and that knows every PvP player that is worth something. And trust me - all the rank 1 players would swap pillar hugging pvp for objective-based, 5-man PvP like the one in GW2, because it is impossible to balance WoW in it's current state, last-man standing game mode that is Rated Arena.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

You've said it yourself. For many many years now, the main focus of development has been story, meta events, dynamic events, and the occasional fractal. That's pretty much it. But back in the days of Season 1 of the Living World. PvE was getting content every two weeks and all I heard, even back then, were PvPers who felt abandoned by the company. You can write as many paragraphs as you like but the PvE focus has been here since Season 1, when PvE was getting the vast majority of updates.

Edit: Traditional end game definitions NEVER applied to this game. The game didn't launch with raids. The devs themselves said they considered the three Orr zones end game. Dungeons too were obviously end game, but it wasn't what the devs were talking about, when they talked about the game, at least not by percentage of time. In HoT, zone metas were considered end game and still probably are for most people. Raids and Fractals are the instanced end game, but this game has been focused more on the open world.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

You've said it yourself. For many many years now, the main focus of development has been story, meta events, dynamic events, and the occasional fractal. That's pretty much it. But back in the days of Season 1 of the Living World. PvE was getting content every two weeks and all I heard, even back then, were PvPers who felt abandoned by the company. You can write as many paragraphs as you like but the PvE focus has been here since Season 1, when PvE was getting the vast majority of updates.

Edit: Traditional end game definitions NEVER applied to this game. The game didn't launch with raids. The devs themselves said they considered the three Orr zones end game. Dungeons too were obviously end game, but it wasn't what the devs were talking about, when they talked about the game, at least not by percentage of time. In HoT, zone metas were considered end game and still probably are for most people. Raids and Fractals are the instanced end game, but this game has been focused more on the open world.

Which simply is why its doomed to not live as long as the competition. If End of dragons doesn't do well I wont be surprised if NCsoft pulls the plug, they've done so to games more successful for less.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

You've said it yourself. For many many years now, the main focus of development has been story, meta events, dynamic events, and the occasional fractal. That's pretty much it. But back in the days of Season 1 of the Living World. PvE was getting content every two weeks and all I heard, even back then, were PvPers who felt abandoned by the company. You can write as many paragraphs as you like but the PvE focus has been here since Season 1, when PvE was getting the vast majority of updates.

Edit: Traditional end game definitions NEVER applied to this game. The game didn't launch with raids. The devs themselves said they considered the three Orr zones end game. Dungeons too were obviously end game, but it wasn't what the devs were talking about, when they talked about the game, at least not by percentage of time. In HoT, zone metas were considered end game and still probably are for most people. Raids and Fractals are the instanced end game, but this game has been focused more on the open world.

Which simply is why its doomed to not live as long as the competition. If End of dragons doesn't do well I wont be surprised if NCsoft pulls the plug, they've done so to games more successful for less.

In the 8 years GW2 has been alive it outlived most of its competition ¯\(ツ)

Took NCSoft long enough to pull the plug on Wildstar and Aion is still alive with less sales.Also they only recently gave Tencent the publishing rights in China.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

You've said it yourself. For many many years now, the main focus of development has been story, meta events, dynamic events, and the occasional fractal. That's pretty much it. But back in the days of Season 1 of the Living World. PvE was getting content every two weeks and all I heard, even back then, were PvPers who felt abandoned by the company. You can write as many paragraphs as you like but the PvE focus has been here since Season 1, when PvE was getting the vast majority of updates.

Edit: Traditional end game definitions NEVER applied to this game. The game didn't launch with raids. The devs themselves said they considered the three Orr zones end game. Dungeons too were obviously end game, but it wasn't what the devs were talking about, when they talked about the game, at least not by percentage of time. In HoT, zone metas were considered end game and still probably are for most people. Raids and Fractals are the instanced end game, but this game has been focused more on the open world.

Which simply is why its doomed to not live as long as the competition. If End of dragons doesn't do well I wont be surprised if NCsoft pulls the plug, they've done so to games more successful for less.

Except we aren't talking about whether End of Dragons doing well or not is the end of the game ...we are talking about the PVE focus of GW2. So far ... that's worked for them. Put it this way ... if Anet WAS to change gears and start focusing on the competitive aspects of the game at the expense of PVE ... the game would be FAR shorter lived than if they continued down the current PVE focused path.

I mean, you are fearmongering; if Anet doesn't accept a more traditional MMO approach the game will be doomed. Except that ignores the inevitable demise of the game in the first place. The question isn't IF it happens, it's when it happens. I'm willing to bet that even in 'maintenance' mode ... GW2 is still way more successful as a PVE focused game than a competitive one. Why? because that focus was why it's successful to begin with.

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All i know is that this game had (has? maybe..) everything to be a top tier PvP MMO but Anet just didnt care much, and its a shame. I think you guys are right, Anet primary focus IS PvE and thats why im leaving gw2 after the release of any other PvP MMO (Looking forward to play AoC). I wish nothing but good luck for the PvE community that remains, cuz im sure that soon the PvP community will die hard.

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@Thornwolf.9721 said:

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

@"Rukia.4802" said:1 recognized (?) pvp mode

Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team.

Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison.

Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events.

Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game?

Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP.

I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have.

You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here.

Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had.

Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of.

You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time.

This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple.

You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter.

Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one?

It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event.

E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward.

You've said it yourself. For many many years now, the main focus of development has been story, meta events, dynamic events, and the occasional fractal. That's pretty much it. But back in the days of Season 1 of the Living World. PvE was getting content every two weeks and all I heard, even back then, were PvPers who felt abandoned by the company. You can write as many paragraphs as you like but the PvE focus has been here since Season 1, when PvE was getting the vast majority of updates.

Edit: Traditional end game definitions NEVER applied to this game. The game didn't launch with raids. The devs themselves said they considered the three Orr zones end game. Dungeons too were obviously end game, but it wasn't what the devs were talking about, when they talked about the game, at least not by percentage of time. In HoT, zone metas were considered end game and still probably are for most people. Raids and Fractals are the instanced end game, but this game has been focused more on the open world.

Which simply is why its doomed to not live as long as the competition. If End of dragons doesn't do well I wont be surprised if NCsoft pulls the plug, they've done so to games more successful for less.

Or it found an audience that likes it the way it is and changing it will kill that audience without ever finding the new audience which does everything the way everyone else does. I'm here, specifically because this is different from most MMOs. THis is the reason I play. There are two MMOs that have come out around the same time this one has that are as or more successful and many have come out. Of those two, both are older, bigger names with more games before it and both have console versions. ESO wasn't doing better before it had console versions. At best it was running about even. So you have Final Fantasy XIV the XIVth of it's na;me, that already had a movie made of it, that blew it when it came out and had to completely redo itself.

At this time Final Fantasy is the only game even close to challenging WoW, but it has the Final Fantasy franchise behind it, it has console versions, it has a longer history of a more popular series. Beyond that this game has been successful it it will likely continue to be, even if it isn't the game you want to play. You're making a definitive statement. That this game would b;e more popular if this just changed it to this. The way you like it. But there are plenty of games that are more focused on raids or PvP and those games havent' done as well as this game. There's a lot more at stake here when you change a product while ignoring the fan base that followed to product to where it was.

When did this game take it's biggest hit. When HoT came out. When they pissed off their largest and most dedicated audience to add raids and make hard open world and add PvP tournaments. IN the 9 months after HoT, PvP and Raids were the only updates. And after it all changed. Now if that made money, why would they change it? It didn't make money, it LOST money for the company and the company hadn't ever really recovered from it, because they lost part of their biggest player base to cater to a smaller playerbase. How do I know?

Because Anet came back and took a quarterly update to rein HoT back in. They stopped support raids as much and PvP. They came out with POF which was easier in the open world, with an easier story, with less grindy masteries, with bounties that weren't on timers...essentially it's the anti-HoT. IT's everything that HoT didn't do. The zones aren't as vertical or confusing. The grind is less, you can finish it faster.

And some hard core players claim HoT was better, but you'd never know due to the support it got from the fan base, because the fan base that plays the game casually might not post on Reddit or the official forums. This game spent 3.5 years filtering out hard core players, tried to get them back with HOT and it didn't work. They didn't gain enough hard core players they just lost a decent percentage of their casuals. The reason why the game is the way it is is because the core playerbase wants what it wants, and people who wan't something else don't understand what they see in it. This game is being made right now for people like me, and adding more PvP won't affect me and adding more raids won't affect me, except to see rewards placed behind those that I'm not likely to get. I'm still a bit bitter about legendary armor, considering I have 29 legendary weapons and 2 legendary trinkets, but I don't want to raid. And now it looks like there might be no more raids. I knew this would happen ages ago and said so. I was hardly the only voice raised against bringing raids into the game. Because the game didn't ramp up to them. You don't just make something because X guy will like it, if it's going to piss off Y guy who is a loyal fan already. Anet has done that and it's cost them.

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