Side node renegade

I like fighting the side node renegade and I don’t think it’s super op or anything, but darkrazers daring seems so loaded. It seems like this is the only thing I ever need to look out for in a 1v1 and I need to either use a lot of dodges(ranger stuff like swoop) a block or just stand off node otherwise this 1 skill will potentially lead to a loss of the 1v1. Am I correct or is it literally not all this skill??

all the summons are easily CCed thus making them skip their next "pulse" of attack. Also, I suggest to stop dodging inside the big red aoe aka summons,

i think an icerazor + soulcleave combo is what you gotta watch out for. the elite in general will add up to lotsa dmg and heals so you gotta kill it.

id like to point out that neither of these answers are actually relevent to dealing with a renegade that uses more than 5 IQ, you cannot CC them due to stability road from jalis, and you cant kill them because of the huge aoe spam that has 0 counterplay other than blocking. This build is not skillful unless in the hands of some players (namely azzurs who uses this build to a high level and is clearly better than most other, if not every other, renegade), for the most part its a spammable, non counterplayable and non interactive build that requires basic knowledge to win fights (being road then spirits) as it continues to gatekeep every other sidenoder currently. Unless you have a block your only option is to fully get off the point should the spirits be there.

@Kachros.4751 said:id like to point out that neither of these answers are actually relevent to dealing with a renegade that uses more than 5 IQ, you cannot CC them due to stability road from jalis, and you cant kill them because of the huge aoe spam that has 0 counterplay other than blocking. This build is not skillful unless in the hands of some players (namely azzurs who uses this build to a high level and is clearly better than most other, if not every other, renegade), for the most part its a spammable, non counterplayable and non interactive build that requires basic knowledge to win fights (being road then spirits) as it continues to gatekeep every other sidenoder currently. Unless you have a block your only option is to fully get off the point should the spirits be there.

Yeah when I 1v1 against one of the better rev players in the game it can feel like a different ball game, but still winnable if I don’t have to worried about being constantly 1v2d by a thief.

@Kachros.4751 said:id like to point out that neither of these answers are actually relevent to dealing with a renegade that uses more than 5 IQ, you cannot CC them due to stability road from jalis, and you cant kill them because of the huge aoe spam that has 0 counterplay other than blocking. This build is not skillful unless in the hands of some players (namely azzurs who uses this build to a high level and is clearly better than most other, if not every other, renegade), for the most part its a spammable, non counterplayable and non interactive build that requires basic knowledge to win fights (being road then spirits) as it continues to gatekeep every other sidenoder currently. Unless you have a block your only option is to fully get off the point should the spirits be there.

No strip protection - like honestly strips can literally ruin this builds day.Limited stab ( Pulsing stab on roads for what ? 5 secs , and dark razor as a stun break and 1 sec stab)Limited damage if you don't stand in the field.

That's just a few of the weaknesses.

If you are running in solo yolo vs a build designed to bunker what did you think was going to happen?

+1 the build just like you have to +1 various other builds and this thing drops like a rock - especially if you understand how the build works.

Or simply bring a ranger and watch them pew pew this thing to death without even a scratch.

I mean honestly anytime there is a build that is a little challenging to fight all I see are nerf posts. Then people wonder why Conquest feels to plain and vanilla - you've continually asked to nerf any and all diversity.

Yeah when I 1v1 against one of the better rev players in the game it can feel like a different ball game, but still winnable if I don’t have to worried about being constantly 1v2d by a thief.

There is honestly just no way to get the kill on a decent renegade without playing holo, burn guard or condi herald (burn guard n condi herald cant get the full kill because of kiting), and holo struggles alone hence why a thief +1 is needed.

@Kachros.4751 said:

Yeah when I 1v1 against one of the better rev players in the game it can feel like a different ball game, but still winnable if I don’t have to worried about being constantly 1v2d by a thief.

You just named THREE class counters to the rene yourself. And a +1 which is standard to counter any sidenoder. What is your problem, seriously?

@Azreell.1568 said:

@Kachros.4751 said:id like to point out that neither of these answers are actually relevent to dealing with a renegade that uses more than 5 IQ, you cannot CC them due to stability road from jalis, and you cant kill them because of the huge aoe spam that has 0 counterplay other than blocking. This build is not skillful unless in the hands of some players (namely azzurs who uses this build to a high level and is clearly better than most other, if not every other, renegade), for the most part its a spammable, non counterplayable and non interactive build that requires basic knowledge to win fights (being road then spirits) as it continues to gatekeep every other sidenoder currently. Unless you have a block your only option is to fully get off the point should the spirits be there.

As a genuine question have you even seen a good rene play? It's cele with damage/condi reduction, protection on spirit, and every class loses a ranged fight (other than holo) the shortbow on renegade is stronger than a rangers longbow, Rene also spams weakness so power damage is near irrelevant especially on a class thats as weak as ranger. A solo yolo build was not mentioned yet no matter what build you play a good rene will just not die 1v1 at all. The only strips in the game are spellbreaker and necro, necro lacks the pressure to kill rene and spellbreaker needs to be in melee range but strip wont do anything because of CC spam and as soon as spirits are down the warrior needs to run again. The fact renegade is so good is because it wins point and can sustain even if a person pressures them from offpoint. I understand how the build works but ( for example ) when i try to +1 azzurs, i have to wait until spirits are gone, but thats when he is on jalis that has damage reduction and CCs as well as pulsing weakness on heal. This build is challenging to fight because it lacks counterplay and its non interactive and therefore unhealthy for the game. Decap builds and bunker builds endorse low IQ high value plays and thats why this meta right now is so degenerate.

@ollbirtan.2915 said:

@"Kachros.4751" said:

Yeah when I 1v1 against one of the better rev players in the game it can feel like a different ball game, but still winnable if I don’t have to worried about being constantly 1v2d by a thief.

My problem is that its unhealthy for the game. I enjoy pvp and i want to see people get punished for a lack of skill but renegade stops that, and if you noticed the 3 builds i mentioned are also in a stupid postion of a spammable high value class which are also complained about. These classes dont "coutner" the build other than burn guard but kiting exists so that doesnt matter anyway. If you dont understand the matchup of these fights then dont talk about it. But a +1 wouldnt even matter as an enemy thief would do the same and in that case the renegade and thief would win. Understand the builds and their matchups before assuming anything and aknowledge the fact renegade is gatekeeping EVERY other sidenoder as its leaps ahead of them.

My problem is that its unhealthy for the game. I enjoy pvp and i want to see people get punished for a lack of skill but renegade stops that, and if you noticed the 3 builds i mentioned are also in a stupid postion of a spammable high value class which are also complained about. These classes dont "coutner" the build other than burn guard but kiting exists so that doesnt matter anyway. If you dont understand the matchup of these fights then dont talk about it. But a +1 wouldnt even matter as an enemy thief would do the same and in that case the renegade and thief would win. Understand the builds and their matchups before assuming anything and aknowledge the fact renegade is gatekeeping EVERY other sidenoder as its leaps ahead of them.

id like to also say the fact you just said "CC the spirits" or "dont dodge in the red" as a way to counter renegade shows you have either no idea about it or have faced renegades with 0 clue what they are doing please actually comprehend the builds capacity and value.

I think you either play a different game from the rest of us, or just need to improve your skills. From the 3 classes you mentioned, only holo is complained about for legit reasons. Burn guard and condi herald are a meme beyond g2. So please don't suggest changes to a class without actually understanding matchups and the current 'meta', Period.

@ollbirtan.2915 said:I think you either play a different game from the rest of us, or just need to improve your skills. From the 3 classes you mentioned, only holo is complained about for legit reasons. Burn guard and condi herald are a meme beyond g2. So please don't suggest changes to a class without actually understanding matchups and the current 'meta', Period.

I am, in fact, playing the same game and have played said game at a high level for the past 3 years understanding every matchup and class viability. I'm saying this as i am in the pvp balance discord and burn dh was spoke about a bit as it has a high consistency of huge burn stacks. If you watched previous mATs or the DL tournament you would also realise that burn dh, condi herald wereboth used in high level teams and is used in even platinum 3/lege games which i have personally witnessed, and played with/against. I also played renegade myself with 0 previous gameplay on it and gained a stupid amount of value. If you are defending a class that has barely any counterplay and is non intractable for a long period of time. There are many people who would agree with me, all of which at a high level so please understand the ability of each class. Maybe once you try to 1v1 or 1v2 a good kalla rene you will realise how stupid it is for the game :)

Nice flex indeed. Being in that pvp balance discord with the infamous 1/4 of a 'anet' dev is indeed something to be proud of. Wonder why so few of the proposed changes on that discord made their way to the game? Meanwhile, that infamous 'pvp dev' listens to the cries of the "forum warriors" who were stomped by [insert class here] and refuse to learn.
Also, you should know by now that rank means absolutely nothing these days as MM is botched and wintrades are very common.
Lastly, you are referring to condi herald and burn dh/guard -----this is old news man. While DH does see some use now in mats despite the last round of guard nerfs, condi herald has been gutted 2 seasons ago because of the posts like this. GJ dismantling the game piece by piece until all we have is AA and a loincloth.

Kachros, also knowing as Sari is one of the best soulbeasts and multiclass Player on Europe.She will know what's wrong with renegade is

People complain about ranger pet(s):"Kill the pet. ""No can do. Pet OpieOP. "

People complain about renegade:"Kill the summons. ""OkieOK. "

@"Kachros.4751" said:

My problem is that its unhealthy for the game. I enjoy pvp and i want to see people get punished for a lack of skill but renegade stops that, and if you noticed the 3 builds i mentioned are also in a stupid postion of a spammable high value class which are also complained about. These classes dont "coutner" the build other than burn guard but kiting exists so that doesnt matter anyway. If you dont understand the matchup of these fights then dont talk about it. But a +1 wouldnt even matter as an enemy thief would do the same and in that case the renegade and thief would win. Understand the builds and their matchups before assuming anything and aknowledge the fact renegade is gatekeeping EVERY other sidenoder as its leaps ahead of them.

CCing the spirits is one of the best ways of dealing with them since it stops their effects and continues to drain energy in the case of Soulcleave. Condi eats this build alive, even with Jalis.

@Avatar.3568 said:Kachros, also knowing as Sari is one of the best soulbeasts and multiclass Player on Europe.She will know what's wrong with renegade is

I don’t think soulbeast is very good rn though

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:Kachros, also knowing as Sari is one of the best soulbeasts and multiclass Player on Europe.She will know what's wrong with renegade is

soulbeast destroy side node renegade.most people think kalla renegade is strong because they have no idea what's going on, just play it and get destroyed in ranked by high power build.

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:Nice flex indeed. Being in that pvp balance discord with the infamous 1/4 of a 'anet' dev is indeed something to be proud of. Wonder why so few of the proposed changes on that discord made their way to the game? Meanwhile, that infamous 'pvp dev' listens to the cries of the "forum warriors" who were stomped by [insert class here] and refuse to learn.

Also, you should know by now that rank means absolutely nothing these days as MM is botched and wintrades are very common.

Lastly, you are referring to condi herald and burn dh/guard -----this is old news man. While DH does see some use now in mats despite the last round of guard nerfs, condi herald has been gutted 2 seasons ago because of the posts like this. GJ dismantling the game piece by piece until all we have is AA and a loincloth.

" Burn guard and condi herald are a meme beyond g2 "@"Kachros.4751" says he sees them in p3/leg and tournaments" nice flex, rank dont matter "Classic.typical XYZ isnt used above gold, but if its used then rank doesnt matter so argument invalid ;p

@"ollbirtan.2915" said:all the summons are easily CCed thus making them skip their next "pulse" of attack. Also, I suggest to stop dodging inside the big red aoe aka summons,

I probably do need to save my dodges more. Some of it’s bad habit- 1.) I’ve always spammed a tiny bit too much for my own taste 2.) ranger leap effects seem so important rn that I have to use these “dodges” on node for sustain etc.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:i think an icerazor + soulcleave combo is what you gotta watch out for. the elite in general will add up to lotsa dmg and heals so you gotta kill it.

I never actually thought of killing the elite spirit

@"Avatar.3568" said:Kachros, also knowing as Sari is one of the best soulbeasts and multiclass Player on Europe.She will know what's wrong with renegade is

just because someone is good at the game, does not mean they know how to balance one. I hear alot of bad ideas all the time from "top players"

@Kachros.4751 said:

@Azreell.1568 said:

@Kachros.4751 said:id like to point out that neither of these answers are actually relevent to dealing with a renegade that uses more than 5 IQ, you cannot CC them due to stability road from jalis, and you cant kill them because of the huge aoe spam that has 0 counterplay other than blocking. This build is not skillful unless in the hands of some players (namely azzurs who uses this build to a high level and is clearly better than most other, if not every other, renegade), for the most part its a spammable, non counterplayable and non interactive build that requires basic knowledge to win fights (being road then spirits) as it continues to gatekeep every other sidenoder currently. Unless you have a block your only option is to fully get off the point should the spirits be there.

I don’t think ranger is weak at all though. I’d say if you average all the builds and possibilities ranger would stand at the top as a side noder at least if you consider rank + playing the proper build. 1.) regen spam core ranger is one of the most tanky builds in the game and yet has x2 or even x3 the damage of most of the other tanky builds 2.) decap ranger with all its build can beat any bunker in pure 1v1s except decap scrapper, which u can at least keep decap but never win 3.) can be played basically anyway- high toughness, high healing, insane damage while still being tanky ranger can do it all.Whether you think it’s degenerate or not, ranger is most definitely not weak- as it’s an amazing side noder which you should be able to ezily play as high as legend or in ats.

@Kuma.1503 said:

@zoopop.5630 said:

@Kachros.4751 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:I think you either play a different game from the rest of us, or just need to improve your skills. From the 3 classes you mentioned, only holo is complained about for legit reasons. Burn guard and condi herald are a meme beyond g2. So please don't suggest changes to a class without actually understanding matchups and the current 'meta', Period.

Because the same people who ask for "constructive feedback" used "unconstructive feedback" while asking for nerfs on other professions........I laugh when I see this type of threads, I mean similar builds have been gutted to oblivion for far less . Why in hell should renegade take a free pass when Fire weaver was gutted to the ground while being even less stackable?.

We seen teams winning tournaments while playing even 3 revenants.....still weaver got destroyed by nerfs while we never seen a team winning tournaments while using 3 weavers....not even 2....actually fire weaver even at its peak was sporadically used for AT.

What are again the weaknesses of Kalla/Jallis....:-Lack of strong condi removal ?....Fire weaver wasn't exactly swimming in condi removal-Lack of range?.....Actually Kalla users have strong ranged pressure with that artillery shortbow compared to Fire weaver-Lack of teamfight potential?....Hell no...Renegade can teamfight/sidenode more than fire weaver, Jalllis alone can turn the tables in a teamfight-Lack of reflect?...Actually renegades have access to block projectiles so....

Renegades even have more stability than Fire weaver pre-Feb patch.....the more I think...the more these double standards are apparent