[MAJOR SUGGESTION] Revert the entire 12-2017 balance patch

This is quite possibly the most useless and pointlessly damaging balance patch we have ever seen. It completely failed to accomplish its main goal as the changes to conditions were far too small of integers to really make a difference, and the major skills that were changed were 95% backwards ideas that are terrible for the classes.

1. Changing conditions by 1 stack and a few seconds did barely anything. People simply adjusted their builds or in the case of scourge didn't have to change anything at all. Condition damage and burst for most skills is still basically the same.
2. You BUFFED Firebrand when it is already an over-represented broken build that heals for way too much.
3. You nerfed Revenant with the change to mutilate defenses. This comes across to the community as actually kind of arrogant, since it was supposed to be a buff. However in the preview post people overwhelming explained why this was actually a nerf and we provided key reasons/explanations why it would be a nerf. And yet this change was included in the build anyways even after numerous people showed proof that it was a mistake.
4. Massive nerfs to Warriors strength line for absolutely no reason. This line was used more by core warriors than used by spellbreakers. Core warrior was better than other core buids but was absolutely not OP in comparison to the meta. Might makes right now requires 25 might for 1 dodge. LOL. This at the very least should be reverted.
5. Most of the other trait changes were pointless and did nothing.
6. Buffed mirage confusion stacks and ignored elusive mind
7. Increasing condi duration at the expense of stacks is a BUFF -not a nerf- when it comes to pvp. Why? Because what makes condi strong in PvP since the days of guild wars 1 is, has been, and will continue to be the ability to create cover conditions which make condi removal less effective. A broad buff to condi duration essentially makes cover conditions easier and removal less effective. The fact that this came with a tiny damage nerf does not matter at all. Being able to ignore build counters more than makes up for that. Increased duration across the board without an increase to resistance duration across the board also means that in relation to class matchups where resistance exists it is actually a damage buff in addition to a spam buff.
8. Buffs to Ranger weapons translates to unnecessary buffs for Druid, which is already very strong. Buffs for core Ranger should be on traits that Druid generally doesn't take, not on the weapons themselves.

Seriously. Everything about this patch is either a nerf to something that was not OP, a buff to a metabattle OP build, or a change that accomplished absolutely nothing at all. Nearly everything about it either does not accomplish the balance teams stated goals or in the case of Rev and condi changes actually accomplishes the exact opposite of what Anet was trying to do.

There comes a point where the balance team needs to swallow their pride, admit they screwed up, and pull the plug. That point has passed. Revert the patch.

@"cursE.1794" said:

6. Ele is the weakest class and it got nerfed

Feels Ele man :C

Don't forget to include mirage buffs on that list too.

ELEMENTALISTS WANT ARCANE FURY BACK!

This was a PVE patch, not a pvp one. PvP doesn't really get attention(and doesn't need it, because very small player base).

@Shiyo.3578 said:This was a PVE patch, not a pvp one. PvP doesn't really get attention(and doesn't need it, because very small player base).

No it was specifically a PvP patch. The devs said so. They just didn't do it right.

@"cursE.1794" said:

6. Ele is the weakest class and it got nerfed

It sucks. Seriously What is this balance team thinking? It's like they only care about raids. Kittening kittens of kitten.

+1 was a step backwards.

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:+1 was a step backwards

in a long, winding slope of arbitrary design philosophy. Considering where the franchise as a whole started, GW2 began six feet underground and only kept digging.

So you want them to revert the Scourge nerfs?

You crazy

The idea of smoothing out condition damage was good. But the execution was completely haphazard. Smoothing out burning does help considerably - not so much for everything else. And extending the duration of poison is actually a buff for PvP because of the healing reduction aspect.

We gotta dig deeper.

@"Exedore.6320" said:The idea of smoothing out condition damage was good. But the execution was completely haphazard. Smoothing out burning does help considerably - not so much for everything else. And extending the duration of poison is actually a buff for PvP because of the healing reduction aspect.

Literally every meta PvP build has a counter to Condi Guard. Anet's Platinum player base would also confirm this. The burning reductions makes more sense on everything else except Guardian... and Guardian received the most Nerfs around burning. Let me tell you why that is....

The only thing that makes ANY sense about the balance patch's warranted release was the PvE influences. if it was strictly PvP then this wouldn't have been a global patch.

Sure, the Devs can say it's a "PvP balance patch" and they'll be right because it DOES effect PvP... it's just a terrible patch for PvP... but the patch was not influence was NOT PvP.

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:This was a PVE patch, not a pvp one. PvP doesn't really get attention(and doesn't need it, because very small player base).

There's zilch evidence to support the patch was implemented strictly for PvP reasons. I can say my red balloon is orange, it doesn't make it true.

The only thing I can think of that would make more sense, is the upcoming 2v2 tournament. Core warriors can be an issues against a FB who's F2 can't do squat against the power bursts. I can't speak for Ele and Rev, but this patch would make more sense if that was Anet's intentions.

I feel like the concept behind the changes were fine, to make conditions ramp up in damage over time instead of being burst just easier to land than power. That being said, this "bonus" patch did little more than give us false hope that the condi meta would be brought under control. This was way too simple of a "solution" as far as PvP goes.

@"BurrTheKing.8571" said:I feel like the concept behind the changes were fine, to make conditions ramp up in damage over time instead of being burst just easier to land than power. That being said, this "bonus" patch did little more than give us false hope that the condi meta would be brought under control. This was way too simple of a "solution" as far as PvP goes.

It's more like they missed the point.

Stacks of individual conditions were not what makes conditions "bursty" but rather it's the ability of some classes to apply multiple stacks of different conditions at the same time that makes them bursty.

Scourge is the obvious big offender here. The way scourge and necro traits have synergy allows for the shroud abilities to hit with 6+ different conditions all at once, and on a very short cooldown. The biggest problem with this is it can only be countered by abilities that either grant resistance or do a full cleanse. Most other condi removal is therefore useless as they only remove 1-2 conditions. You simply will not keep up with a build that can consistently toss out every single condi in the game at once.

IMO An individual skill should rarely apply more than 2 conditions at the same time and under absolutely no circumstances more than 4. That's what is causing the "burst" anet is worried about.

May I remember everyone that this patch is the first in that regard.Arenanet specifically said that it most likely won't be the last. It is also considered a rather small patch to begin with, to be able to watch what changes and how.

One point I support is, that scourge didn't see much change.The lesser torment stacks are completely covered by the burning that triggers on every f Key now, regardless how fast you press them. (Smashing buttons fast did not give burn on every skill previously)The complains about 6+ and 8+ different conditions... The scourge mainly (!) uses 4 conditions, 5 if you count the bleeding on scepter, which always was a balanced rampup in the first place, the rest is corrupts and sending conditions back.HoweverI would have liked a set amount of DMG for each boon removed instead of the current corruption (scaling with condition or power, depending on what is the highest). It worked in other games, why wouldn't it in gw2? And it would have stayed somewhat unique to necro too.

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

No it was specifically a PvP patch. The devs said so. They just didn't do it right.

Really? It felt like a PVE patch, basically zero useful pvp changes.

@Crinn.7864 said:So you want them to revert the Scourge nerfs?

You crazy

Revert the patch and go back to work, because it changed literally nothing for scourges.

I swallowed my pride and hopped on a Scourge to see if my analysis of the patch was correct; needless to say it's still the easiest thing I've used in SPvP at higher gold ranking, and I'm not a very experienced Necromancer player. I only lose games where the rest of my team is basically incompetent.

It affects WVW too!

The rev down state skill, forceful displacement, defiantly needed nerfing...lol

So fun to see "ele players" coming here to cry because of a "nerf" - oh pls

@Saiyan.1704 said:

@Exedore.6320 said:The idea of smoothing out condition damage was good. But the execution was completely haphazard. Smoothing out burning does help considerably - not so much for everything else. And extending the duration of poison is actually a buff for PvP because of the healing reduction aspect.

Updated with reflections on condi. After testing condi builds affected by the changes, I've found they are actually stronger in pvp due to increased durations making it easier to use cover conditions. With this, pretty much everything about this patch directly contradicted the balance teams stated goals. There really is no reason at all to not revert this.

Ive been saying un nerf SB for several weeks now so i approve.