Is scourge going to take even more nerfs?

So with all the wvw and spvp whiners, it seems inevitable that scourge gets nerfed again, and this time into a hole 6 feet under right?

You guys think scourge will get nerfed again? how hard will they get nerfed?

Of course it's going to get nerfed. The question you should be asking is: "Is Scourge going get nerfed without proper compensations? Again?". The answer is going to be the same either way you ask it, but still.

The thing is. It was good, that scourge got tuned down in wvw.But still eles are the main dmg sources there, not scourges. But almost noone realizes that, and so, everyone is just spamming scourge, and so: everyone dies from ita conditions.

And to add. Almost every class got buffed last balance patch. Necro only recieved nerfs.And now it will get nerfed again.And other classes get nerfed as well, but you know, they got some useful buffs last patch.

And necro gets some buffs, that are way to undertuned or most likely useless. Like dagger 2 cd buff. Well, dagger mh will still stay fcking bad. Or the signet buffs, they still stay pretty bad.And the only good things are getting nerfed.

Other classes get their weak things buffed. Necro also gets the strong thing nerfed, so both gets almost useless, but you still have to take the nerfed one, because there are no better options

I dont know why they are making necro such an easy kill. Lets give it even more channeling attacks and nerf the only stability source, so necro can be interrupted all the time by everyone.

And sure. Necro will recieve even more nerfs

I have doubts about wether necro should be nerfed further for fear of it becoming kitten useless.

It looks as if people can't make up their minds what is op and what is not.scourge cleanse got nerfed, and i'm seeing a guy on pvp forums area claiming that reaper will get better if scourge is nerfed, not realizing that all that will do, is put both elites in the dumpster.

Is it our cleanses? our defenses? make up your minds.First and foremost:I want someone who actually plays necro to comment on these underlying isuses, and ways to balance without completely gimping necros in all 3 game modes, besides open world clear, which every class can do.

Furthermore:If you are going to nerf something like condis that hard on necro, then we need massive compensation in spvp to be functional and useful, otherwise we are dead weight.I personally don't know if its a good idea to nerf condis or boon corrupt anymore, since we already recieved a lot of nerfs already.Its bad enough our defenses got nerfed AGAIN!!!! its already hard enough to stay alive while roaming in spvp and wvw on reaper, and last thing it needs is nerfs.

I also highly disagree on nerfing aoes any further because of WVW, since other classes can also provide strong aoes, and if we get nerfed, then mesmers eles engis etc need a massive nerf too to their aoes.How would it feel if eles couldn't deal lotsa dmg raining down fire? or mirage if their dmg was nerfed.

I think besides that:You cannot predict what classes will appear in doubles.I've seen plenty of double thieves in spvp or double druids etc.Why should it be any different for necros? because of aoes? well thats prejudice vs a spec.Also:In WVW the chances of meeting 1 or more of the same kinda spec good at aoes is high, and that is kinda the way it works.Some classes are great at single targets, others are great at multi target.Necros are great at aoes and debuffing, but we are super fragile, and as soon as you look at us funny, we fall apart.We are the very definition of a glass cannon.Only difference:There are other classes who can deal way more damage and have better support and defensives.

Why do you even ask? Scourge's mechanisms are such that it's unavoidable to have complaints about him in PvP/WvW, thus it will make players cry and anet will try it's hardest to keep the bad design and bandaid fix what's perceived as "to strong". Anet can't fix the scourge's design issues by playing with numbers, still they will try and it will feel like nerfs, effectively puting the scourge in a bad spot yet still make players cry. That's what's magic with scourge (and that's why they should have tested it before releasing, not just thinking: "wow great concept!")

@Nimon.7840 said:But still eles are the main dmg sources there, not scourges. But almost noone realizes that, and so, everyone is just spamming scourge, and so: everyone dies from ita conditions.

In my experience that is only the case in choke fights. Open field, scourge still rules supreme (as I found out yesterday when I was constantly top dps in my guild whilst running full trails - the other scourges ran cele).

Sure, because why not?

The design was flawed for PVP/WVW in the first place ... I would have liked to think Anet learned a bit from DH Trapper ... but they took that idea and made it even worse on Scourge ... OK. DH trapper should have been the limit for AOE denial/control and if Anet is smart, that's where Scourge will have to be brought down to as well.

Yup. I still see players using necro in pve so nerfs incoming.

Little joke. I don't see them because I stopped playing after last nerfmageddon.

Sometimes I feel like Stronghold should have been the competitive map instead of conquest. Conquest is too limiting with regards to AoEs. If a class has lots of AoEs, it's automatically OP in conquest because it's all about standing on points.

Of course it's getting nerfed. Right now Scourge is the single most dominant class in sPvP behind mirage, to the point that the entire meta is being defined by Scourge.

@Crinn.7864 said:Of course it's getting nerfed. Right now Scourge is the single most dominant class in sPvP behind mirage, to the point that the entire meta is being defined by Scourge.

First think about this:There might be things necros hate about scourge that might make it unfun for them in the builds, but nerfing what things that are fun isn't going to make them more fun, it will just weaken it to all heck and gut it, leaving everyone fleeing in all directions.If you have unfun problematic to balance mechanics, then you have to overhaul it and take deep thought into what is fun and what is not fun, and take deep considerations of pros and cons of nerfing a class, and risk of gutting it.

If you nerf the scourge's aoes, you risk turning it into trash tier, and people will probably flee and go play reaper or go play another class or game.

Me? i already rerolled and gave up on necro, because its clear we can't have nice things.

of course, as every necro spec. and the only buffs they get have to be "balanced out" by ICD or other shenanigangs like faster life force depletion, because necro has so much defense and damage already woohoo

Scourge is a turret class and this game's players hate to play against turret classes. So scourge will be nerfed over and over again not because it is OP, but because it is unfun to play against.

The problem with scourge in PvP/WvW is there is no skill involved.. its just facesmash and thats about it, so long as you have someone else to heal you, its pretty easy to play, that is the reason no one like scourge being so strong i feel, put down shades and spam to win.. Kinda lame imo

Personally I feel like necro has been always nerfed for being OP while not being OP :disappointed: . When the game started after a while necro has been nerfed. HoT came out brining reaper, all fun shouts pretty fun to play etc. Yet, it got nerfed. PoF came out giving us scourge with insane condi dmg but low survivability which makes sense. You do a lot of dmg but have to be carefully as within seconds you can be killed. However, it got nerfed. Not only the damage but defense too. Now necro does less damage and has lower survivability but people want to nerf it again, and ANet will do so making a necro as useless as ranger was in WvW. Necro has ok damage if all skills are out down but is glassy and unfortunately i feel like it will just become completely garbage within next update.

@"Mini Crinny.6190" said:The problem with scourge in PvP/WvW is there is no skill involved.. its just facesmash and thats about it, so long as you have someone else to heal you, its pretty easy to play, that is the reason no one like scourge being so strong i feel, put down shades and spam to win.. Kinda lame imo

The issue with your statement is that the scourge don't have the tools to do anything else. In a way, using smartly their shade is the only ay a scourge can play skillfully however from any other profession point of view, this is seen as easy to play.

I like your comment because it prove my point that the design of the scourge (and the necromancer) is misjuged due to PvP players bias. PvP Player tend to see as skillfull gameplay that imply supposed smart positionning, lot of movement and complicated rotations. while in fact it's just mashing button and exploiting mobility tools. The necromancer is, by design an immobile profession that just can't fit the expectations of a "skillfull" gameplay that a PvP player will have, however, this same necromancer hold the tools to counter what these players see as skillfull builds.

I'm sorry to say it Mini Crinny but no profession really have a more skillfull gameplay than the necromancer. It's just that you see mobility and positioning as being "superior" in "skill" than denying mobility and positioning. The necromancer don't have any choice in the matter, he is bound to be this immobile guy that have to plague the area or he will die to the endless dodge/teleport guys that think they are skilled players.

@"Mini Crinny.6190" said:The problem with scourge in PvP/WvW is there is no skill involved.. its just facesmash and thats about it, so long as you have someone else to heal you, its pretty easy to play, that is the reason no one like scourge being so strong i feel, put down shades and spam to win.. Kinda lame imo

"As long as you have someone else to heal you"... anyone can have an easy time playing in PvP and WvW with a dedicated healer.

Also let us not forget how easy it is to counter scourge with range and I do mean any range. It is a joke how bad necro in general is against range, I PvP primarily on necro and ranger, boy howdy do I love to see necros on the other side when I'm on my ranger, free kills for the whole match.

@Dadnir.5038 said:I'm sorry to say it Mini Crinny but no profession really have a more skillfull gameplay than the necromancer.

Excuse me but...

LOL? Scourge was and still is one of the most braindead classes along with Pre-Patch Condi Mirage and Pre-Patch Firebrand.

I mean I could understand you if you said Revenant but otherwise, just lol.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:I'm sorry to say it Mini Crinny but no profession really have a more skillfull gameplay than the necromancer.

Try reading what I wrote after. You are also bias in the way you perceive things. Scourge only have one thing for him and it's to cover area with it's poison. Doing it smartly and timing it's skills is as hard as what other professions have to do (Which mean it's not hard, indeed).

Are you of those that think that elementalist have a harder time because they have "more" skills? Nope, scourge have almost as may skills to use as an elementalist.Do you perhaps think that thiefs needs 200 IQ to do their job? Nope.Do you think an engineer is skilled because he got to remember it's kits skills? Nope, 99% of the engineers just spam their kits skills whenever they can.Do you think their is a need to go to an reknown highschool to play mesmer perhaps? Nope, just summon your clones and blow them.Do you think warrior or guardian are hard to play? Sorry but no. They've got pretty basic gameplay.Or maybe you think ranger are an example of skillfull gameplay? It's not, nope.You think poorly of the revenant? Well, it's actually as difficult with it than with the other professions.

You think that the scourge is harder to play because you think that it's granted that he got all the thng that other professions have. He doesn't. It's mobility is poor, it's defense is brittle, it's resilience to CC is pathetic. It's only job is area denying. If you think that him being good at doing it's job mean that it doesn't need as much skills as other professions, you're wrong.

There is plenty of flaw in the design of the scourge and I'd love to see it totally reworked, but saying that it's a profession that is easier than the other is purely wrong.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Mini Crinny.6190" said:The problem with scourge in PvP/WvW is there is no skill involved.. its just facesmash and thats about it, so long as you have someone else to heal you, its pretty easy to play, that is the reason no one like scourge being so strong i feel, put down shades and spam to win.. Kinda lame imo

Y'all will always cry about the necro no matter what. Thats why i quit this game for good. I didn't played since the last nerf and i will never comeback until Anet speaks about what they have with the necros and why all the hate. We cant fit in any game mode because we are not as good as the rest of the classes and yet they still nerfing the necro again and again . They can enjoy their game and i have no regrets about leaving it

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:I'm sorry to say it Mini Crinny but no profession really have a more skillfull gameplay than the necromancer.

Not to mention that we never have the right tools to counter other classes enough to win a lot of times.Take ranger:Even if i take poison cloud, i still won't win.I might win vs thief some of the times if he's really dumb or if he's very inexperienced, but i have to pray for him to try and engage me without using invis so i can condi his butt and destroy him with reaper.If i try to engage him, he will run away 99% of the time with superior range and just range me and immob me.

Necros do have a skill ceiling as they have to be real good at managing tools and predicting their enemy patterns anda ttacks, because if they don't, they get wrecked hardcore.

@Nimon.7840 said:The thing is. It was good, that scourge got tuned down in wvw.But still eles are the main dmg sources there, not scourges. But almost noone realizes that, and so, everyone is just spamming scourge, and so: everyone dies from ita conditions.

...Wat

This is just completely false. Everyone dies from its conditions because conditions ignore armor/sustained defenses which everyone stacks and the scourge counters its own counter of resistance by being able to corrupt it into immobilize which denies blocks, and WoR prevents new boons/resists after a corrupt bomb.

Ele only used to be primary damage/huge damage by bombing the backline with MS's, but we haven't seen that since before Pirate Ship like two years ago.

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:The thing is. It was good, that scourge got tuned down in wvw.But still eles are the main dmg sources there, not scourges. But almost noone realizes that, and so, everyone is just spamming scourge, and so: everyone dies from ita conditions.

Condis ARE SUPPOSED TO HURT!! if condis didn't hurt there would be a lot of specs useless, and boon corrupt is needed to keep boons in line.

If you have a problem with boon corrupt, then make sure you have no boons on you.No boons, no corrupts.

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:I'm sorry to say it Mini Crinny but no profession really have a more skillfull gameplay than the necromancer.

I mean of course I am biased, because I think Revenant is hard and underpowered, but you aren’t biased because you think Scourge has a high skill ceiling? Pfft.

For the other professions;

Elementalists : Yes, they are hard because you need to time your evades and Twist of Fate if you are a Weaver. Elementalists are almost non-existant in PvP, and people mostly play Scourge and Hammer Rev instead of DPS Ele in WvW.

Thief : Some of their builds require some IQ like P/D or Rifle, but I agree with you on that.

Engineer : Not much like as you said, because Engineers really need to do combos to do damage, aside from Holosmith. But Holosmith wasn’t the real issue even before the Feb 6 patch - Scourge, Mirage and Firebrand were.

Mesmer : I never liked Mirage’s brainless gameplay anyway. Mesmer is definitely over the top, at the moment.

Warrior, Guardian, Ranger : Those are just bruisers or supports so I’m not going to comment on those, but Firebrand and Spellbreaker were OP, Druid still is.

Necromancer is like a tank irl, hard hitting, but slow. But Scourge was hard hitting, and fast in terms of condition application, boon corruption.

Arenanet went the wrong way with Necromancer when balancing in my opinion.They should’ve lowered it’s ability to make capture points deadzones. Lowering it’s damage isn’t needed as much as it’s control abilities. They should’ve kept it’s damage high, but remove braindead skills like Sand Savant.

They wanted to balance the class around PvP/WvW, and made it useless in PvE, just like they did with Deadeye Rifle.