Is scourge going to take even more nerfs?

[Aeolus.3615]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

Reason i would prefer to limit scourge movement while being strong with condi and barrier but less mobile. :\ rather than make stuff weakeruntil the point it becomes way to hard for overall players to play.

it already has no mobility you honestly cant limit it anymore than it already is. ITs got nothing to limit. Its got a 900 range portal with a cast time.While your idea of being strong with condition and barrier is a good on paper its only strong with condi based on a foes boons. Its barrier could be a bit better.

I think scourge is just a flawed design that had no back up fixes incase it was too strong or too weak.

In that i agree, but as i tend to joke, u never know what low mobility means untul u play a mace shield guardian, low damage, low to mediocre surviability, low moibility.

Well theres a way to fix scourge, remove the shades to something else ??Reduce its time to 3 seconds rather than 10, increase direct damage by alot, on the initial second all damage taken will be converted to barrier, when it ends scourge for 1 or 2 seconds barrier will absorv inc projectiles.

Increase skill CD to 5sec.

There are a gazilion ways to improve the gameplay w/o nerfing the spec overall... tied to some broken gimmick based on spam...

[ZDragon.3046]

@Jski.6180 said:

Try playing a class with only weak boon generation and no boon contorll and then ask your self is it better to bring things down to that level of game play or to build up the class to that level of game play. Ele is that class.

The game has become a tug of war with boons in wvw and i guess spvp but not all classes are able to play in that tug of war scourge has the ability to be on both sides one more then other but still is able to have some of the best boon control in the game and that means its going to keep getting hit.

You must be out of your mind lol.Ele gets boons and condi clear out of its butt all day every day. Especially with weaver and tempest. If you think eles boon generation is weak or has no boon control you might not be traited correctly or playing it correctly. I dont have any issues up keeping boons on my ele when I do play it. In fact you dont even need to hit foes or be hit to keep most your boons up its actually ridiculous .

As i keep saying scourges boon control is not determined by its skills its determined by the amount of boon spam based on all the other professions if you generate tons of boons the more potential scourge has to get at those boons and make the most of it. Lowering boons spam lowers necro effectiveness overall. You cant control boons that are not there. Simply pecking at scourges boon rip potential when the issue is the fact that everything else passively depends on having tons of boons to start with.

People are very ignorant ( no offense ) on how much they depend on boons to win in the current state of the game. Yet 1 class specifically designed to work against it has too much of it??? ok...

[ZDragon.3046]

@Aeolus.3615 said:

In that i agree, but as i tend to joke, u never know what low mobility means untul u play a mace shield guardian, low damage, low to mediocre surviability, low moibility.

Well theres a way to fix scourge, remove the shades to something else ??Reduce its time to 3 seconds rather than 10, increase direct damage, on the initial second all damage will be converted to barrier.

LOLwow ok now you know i dont even have a come back for that (ive played that before) that specifically actually does have less mobility than necro lol

At this point i dont think they will remove the shades as a feature at base they have 3 shades. They have a trait to make it 1 big shade.... i dont know why another trait didn't take the feature away to place shades and make the effects more deadly but now only proc off around the necromancer.

Ideally that would have been really nice imo but what ever. XD

[Jski.6180]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

Try playing a class with only weak boon generation and no boon contorll and then ask your self is it better to bring things down to that level of game play or to build up the class to that level of game play. Ele is that class.

The game has become a tug of war with boons in wvw and i guess spvp but not all classes are able to play in that tug of war scourge has the ability to be on both sides one more then other but still is able to have some of the best boon control in the game and that means its going to keep getting hit.

You must be out of your mind lol.Ele gets boons and condi clear out of its butt all day every day. Especially with weaver and tempest. If you think eles boon generation is weak or has no boon control you might not be traited correctly or playing it correctly. I dont have any issues up keeping boons on my ele when I do play it. In fact you dont even need to hit foes or be hit to keep most your boons up its actually ridiculous .

As i keep saying scourges boon control is not determined by its skills its determined by the amount of boon spam based on all the other professions if you generate tons of boons the more potential scourge has to get at those boons and make the most of it. Lowering boons spam lowers necro effectiveness overall. You cant control boons that are not there. Simply pecking at scourges boon rip potential when the issue is the fact that everything else passively depends on having tons of boons to start with.

People are very ignorant ( no offense ) on how much they depend on boons to win in the current state of the game. Yet 1 class specifically designed to work against it has too much of it??? ok...

Condi clear is not going to make up for not having boon strip or boon conversion as well as not having aoe stab quikness alikly and reisisents going to be made up for having some specialized build for protection fury spame. The day when protection and fury apply in str and not just duration or you take away other classes build in protection and fury is the day these boons will be something of note.

Even if ele had condi conversion (clear is nothing now) it would go a long way to keeping things balanced something socrge has.

If you cant do one of these 2 effect you must do high dmg that some how is more then just blunt power dmg as this dmg can be blocked and simply healed. Also know as dmg that has high lasting dmg condi or high stun effects.

I bring up ele because it is the class in detect completion with the scourge class. If you look at an effect you need to compare it to effects from other classes that are simulator to its own. Ele is the only other AoE control class other then scourge (necro).

Every nerf on scourge is because of what ele as a class can and cant do.

[Axl.8924]

@Jski.6180 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

Try playing a class with only weak boon generation and no boon contorll and then ask your self is it better to bring things down to that level of game play or to build up the class to that level of game play. Ele is that class.

The game has become a tug of war with boons in wvw and i guess spvp but not all classes are able to play in that tug of war scourge has the ability to be on both sides one more then other but still is able to have some of the best boon control in the game and that means its going to keep getting hit.

You must be out of your mind lol.Ele gets boons and condi clear out of its butt all day every day. Especially with weaver and tempest. If you think eles boon generation is weak or has no boon control you might not be traited correctly or playing it correctly. I dont have any issues up keeping boons on my ele when I do play it. In fact you dont even need to hit foes or be hit to keep most your boons up its actually ridiculous .

As i keep saying scourges boon control is not determined by its skills its determined by the amount of boon spam based on all the other professions if you generate tons of boons the more potential scourge has to get at those boons and make the most of it. Lowering boons spam lowers necro effectiveness overall. You cant control boons that are not there. Simply pecking at scourges boon rip potential when the issue is the fact that everything else passively depends on having tons of boons to start with.

People are very ignorant ( no offense ) on how much they depend on boons to win in the current state of the game. Yet 1 class specifically designed to work against it has too much of it??? ok...

Condi clear is not going to make up for not having boon strip or boon conversion as well as not having aoe stab quikness alikly and reisisents going to be made up for having some specialized build for protection fury spame. The day when protection and fury apply in str and not just duration or you take away other classes build in protection and fury is the day these boons will be something of note.

Even if ele had condi conversion (clear is nothing now) it would go a long way to keeping things balanced something socrge has.

If you cant do one of these 2 effect you must do high dmg that some how is more then just blunt power dmg as this dmg can be blocked and simply healed. Also know as dmg that has high lasting dmg condi or high stun effects.

I bring up ele because it is the class in detect completion with the scourge class. If you look at an effect you need to compare it to effects from other classes that are simulator to its own. Ele is the only other AoE control class other then scourge (necro).

Every nerf on scourge is because of what ele as a class can and cant do.

I dunno how strong weaver is compared to mesmer or daredevil in spvp, not sure what kind of builds or how fragil it really is or why.Not sure what kind of boons you can give yourself and team.

[Crinn.7864]

@Nord.1492 said:

@Axl.8924 said:...because everyone runs massive boons.

I dont get it why people not complaining about THIS. Its massively unfair that some classes are running millions of boons, hitting like a truck, almost invulnerable complaining about the only class which makes kitten right.

Except Scourge doesn't make it right, Scourge actually promotes boonspam because you need boonspam to replace the boons lost to Scourge. The builds getting hit the hardest by boonrip are the builds that have moderate boon generation because they cannot replace the lost boons.

It's also worth noting that Scourge's boonrip isn't actually that exceptional. Scourge actually has less single target boonrip than the HoT era condi reaper builds did. The difference however is that Scourge does more condi burst than even procmancer did while also having way better sustain and utility than condi reaper did even when reaper was at the height of it's potency.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Jski.6180 said:

Condi clear is not going to make up for not having boon strip or boon conversion as well as not having aoe stab quikness alikly and reisisents going to be made up for having some specialized build for protection fury spame. The day when protection and fury apply in str and not just duration or you take away other classes build in protection and fury is the day these boons will be something of note.

Ele should not have boon strip to start with ele is not that kind of profession its an elementalist they do not practice corruption or what is considered to be dark arts. IF they did then necro wouldnt have been a optional profession from the games release. There was a point where ele was one of the only professions that could spam boons on itself and it was fine because it needed them due to how squishy it is. I likely still needs them more than any other profession and thats fine.

Ele has stab and access to teleports and invulns. So im not sure where you think they dont have those things.

Even if ele had condi conversion (clear is nothing now) it would go a long way to keeping things balanced something socrge has.

I think the biggest issue most eles have fighting a scourge is that perhaps the majority of people use melee ranged weapons. I want to think that a scepter ele would kill scourges very easily. Yes if you try to fight a scourge in melee range and they use desert shroud well duh its not a healthy trade.

If you cant do one of these 2 effect you must do high dmg that some how is more then just blunt power dmg as this dmg can be blocked and simply healed. Also know as dmg that has high lasting dmg condi or high stun effects.

Ele has pretty decent damage and great sustain and mobility. Yes you are squishy but the sustain is pretty nice when played effectively

I bring up ele because it is the class in detect completion with the scourge class. If you look at an effect you need to compare it to effects from other classes that are simulator to its own. Ele is the only other AoE control class other then scourge (necro).

Ele has no real aoe control unless you use staff. And generally staff is one of the hardest if not the hardest weapon to use against other players. Scourge's specially is zone control balance is not giving other professions the same tools or zone control its giving them options to get in and get out without simply going down or giving them the option to dominate from rage.

Every nerf on scourge is because of what ele as a class can and cant do.This is simply not true.Most of the nerfs on scourge come from1 the spec being bugged for 3 weeks on release doing 2-4 times the dps it should have been doing2 an ridiculous amount of players hoarding to the profession just to win. (adjusted damage and converts once)3 no counter on shades (adjusted damage and even built in a delay on the shades which causes tons of visual noise)4 people now still complaining about how necro eats their boons when they drown themselves in them and run into scourge zones not expecting to have them ripped and turned against them.

Anet has to balance around players who are boon dependent or too ignorant to not learn how to avoid key skills of scourge properly.There is no such thing as mindless shade spam if a player puts a shade in a specific spot its likely because1- a person is standing there2-they want to control that zoneAs far as wvw people cry for balance there yet some how dont realize wvw is the place where you will run into groups of scourges or any profession for that matter.WvW should have some balance but anet is letting WvW scourge dominance effect it in other game modes a bit too much. Not to mention they have not gone back to core and thrown it some bones till now.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Axl.8924 said:I dunno how strong weaver is compared to mesmer or daredevil in spvp, not sure what kind of builds or how fragil it really is or why.Not sure what kind of boons you can give yourself and team.

Core ele as base is enough to keep and give perma 25 might stacks, fury, regen and swiftness. With a few more traits, you can add easily prot and vigor. Weaver and tempest only serve as improving these abilities. Warrior and now tempest are used for might generation only because they need less thought to do it than the elementalist do. There is a reason why speedruns team pre HoT were mostly using 4 ele and 1 thief, the elementalist can dps and keep up the necessary boons by himself (Well, having op conjure weapons helped a lot as well ;) ).

[Anchoku.8142]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Nord.1492 said:

@Axl.8924 said:...because everyone runs massive boons.

I dont get it why people not complaining about THIS. Its massively unfair that some classes are running millions of boons, hitting like a truck, almost invulnerable complaining about the only class which makes kitten right.

Except Scourge doesn't make it right, Scourge actually promotes boonspam because you need boonspam to replace the boons lost to Scourge. The builds getting hit the hardest by boonrip are the builds that have moderate boon generation because they cannot replace the lost boons.

It's also worth noting that Scourge's boonrip isn't actually that exceptional. Scourge actually has less single target boonrip than the HoT era condi reaper builds did. The difference however is that Scourge does more condi burst than even procmancer did while also having way better sustain and utility than condi reaper did even when reaper was at the height of it's potency.

It is somewhat circular logic to say boon hate creates more boon spam. Scourge has an enormous amount of boon hate and I think it was put there to punish boon spam in PvP and WvW. In PvE, mob boons are controlled by the design team so limiting them would not need boon hate unless Arenanet wants to encourage it.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Aeolus.3615 said:@ZDragon.3046 deppends the class, guardian can only do it, if a player has a Firebrand unlocked, shout boons compared with other classes boon capabilities. are weak, look at engie, ranger and elementalist/weaver etc.

Core to a degree may be slightly weaker than the rest yes

but are still capable enough of boon spam due to weapons of choice not to mention that all a guardian need to is run retaliation/ meditation to get decent boon spam effectiveness (assuming they want to do damage or even if they dont) To do that only requires core guard traits you dont need firebrand for that but lets be real most people are looking at firebrand right now not core guard or something.

Even without firebrand guardian is solid and always will be solid. Its just strong but not overly so its probably one of the better professions to last the test of time along with warrior and thief.

I ment gamewide not just tied to one or other game mode idenpendently, in pvp envyroments who dies to 240-300 rataliation?In a way yes, but what u have for options to use and what it works... still almost all classes have a bit of that in a way or other..... >_>

Wich takes me to enforce one thing, nerfes wont solve scourge problem, while it is a design problem...

You don't die from the retal, you die from the 50% crit rate that retal gives guards.

Does that means that every core guard is runing radiance?

If he's running a power DPS build, probably yes, and not just core guards, but also DH, and FB (although FB is stronger as a condi build). It's just too strong to ignore for power DPS builds.

IMO that translates to other stuff guard core has is lacking :)

Not sure what you mean. It's a pivotal trait for a specific type of builds, like Illusionary Inspiration for support Mesmer builds, etc. But it doesn't mean you have to take it all the time. Other builds won't use it, of course. If you're looking for tankier/support builds, you'll probably take other traits, if you're going condi, you're probably not as worried about crits, etc. For

power DPS

builds it's pretty much mandatory, yes.

But guard is still in a good spot to be lacking those tools ideally guard has lot of effective options right now and not all of them require firebrand.

Didn't say otherwise. Never said that Guardian is lacking anything, i agree that it's probably one of the best balanced classes in the game atm.> @Crinn.7864 said:

@Nord.1492 said:

@Axl.8924 said:...because everyone runs massive boons.

I dont get it why people not complaining about THIS. Its massively unfair that some classes are running millions of boons, hitting like a truck, almost invulnerable complaining about the only class which makes kitten right.

Except Scourge doesn't make it right, Scourge actually promotes boonspam because you need boonspam to replace the boons lost to Scourge. The builds getting hit the hardest by boonrip are the builds that have moderate boon generation because they cannot replace the lost boons.

It's also worth noting that Scourge's boonrip isn't actually that exceptional. Scourge actually has less single target boonrip than the HoT era condi reaper builds did. The difference however is that Scourge does more condi burst than even procmancer did while also having way better sustain and utility than condi reaper did even when reaper was at the height of it's potency.

Or you could react to the fact that Scourge and Spellbreaker are a thing and built stuff that's less dependant on boon spam?The problem with GW2 is that there's very little amount of people that are used to playing games with a modicum of competitiveness. So you get all this amount of casual players asking for changes that don't make sense because they can't bring themselves to adapt their builds to the meta.You see this all the time, including in PvE. People cry about the meta or new content all the time, ask for nerfs, ask for whatever, complain about Elitism, never thinking that they actually have options to adapt to those changes. No, they want to play their Celestial Ele in all content types, regardless of whether it's a bad idea or not.

[DeceiverX.8361]

The problem is that if you run a build that doesn't spam boons, into every single other matchup except Scourge, you immediately lose because the opposition has literally double the effective stats from gear.

If boon spam got fixed, Scourge would also be fixed by proxy because people would be less-dependent on boons/utilizing them less.

The problem is ANet seems to refuse to allow this to happen, with things like boon duration now as a stat without nerfing base durations, and by balancing a number of classes on boon duration and access a well.

Unless ANet plans to nerf boons (which they should), mass corruption is going to over-perform and will never not be absolutely mandatory for most PvP-oriented play because it literally turns other people's builds offline.

[Crinn.7864]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Nord.1492 said:

@Axl.8924 said:...because everyone runs massive boons.

I dont get it why people not complaining about THIS. Its massively unfair that some classes are running millions of boons, hitting like a truck, almost invulnerable complaining about the only class which makes kitten right.

Except Scourge doesn't make it right, Scourge actually promotes boonspam because you need boonspam to replace the boons lost to Scourge. The builds getting hit the hardest by boonrip are the builds that have moderate boon generation because they cannot replace the lost boons.

It's also worth noting that Scourge's boonrip isn't actually that exceptional. Scourge actually has less single target boonrip than the HoT era condi reaper builds did. The difference however is that Scourge does more condi burst than even procmancer did while also having way better sustain and utility than condi reaper did even when reaper was at the height of it's potency.

Or you could react to the fact that Scourge and Spellbreaker are a thing and built stuff that's less dependant on boon spam?Or you could realize that running boonless just means that the Scourge has even less trouble killing you, nevermind how easy it will be for his teammates. I've put in a large amount of time running a slew of different builds including boonless ones, and I can absolutely assure you that running boonless will leave you far worse off even against a Scourge. No boons means that your offensive pressure is weak, and your sustain is worse. So you will simultaneously have less ability to pressure the Scourge while at the same time you will be very easy to counterpressure.Not to mention that there are several classes in the game where boon generation is a integral part of their sustain. Examples include: Reaper(Blighter's), Core Warrior(Might Makes Right), Tempest, and Herald

The fact of the matter is that, contrary to popular belief, very little of Scourge's offensive power comes from boonrip. The vast bulk of Scourge's damage comes from weapon skills, Shade Autos, and F5. Running a boonless build is not going to magically prevent you from getting vaporized by a Scourge.

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Nord.1492 said:

@Axl.8924 said:...because everyone runs massive boons.

I dont get it why people not complaining about THIS. Its massively unfair that some classes are running millions of boons, hitting like a truck, almost invulnerable complaining about the only class which makes kitten right.

Except Scourge doesn't make it right, Scourge actually promotes boonspam because you need boonspam to replace the boons lost to Scourge. The builds getting hit the hardest by boonrip are the builds that have moderate boon generation because they cannot replace the lost boons.

It's also worth noting that Scourge's boonrip isn't actually that exceptional. Scourge actually has less single target boonrip than the HoT era condi reaper builds did. The difference however is that Scourge does more condi burst than even procmancer did while also having way better sustain and utility than condi reaper did even when reaper was at the height of it's potency.

It is somewhat circular logic to say boon hate creates more boon spam.Boons are to vital to too many classes functionality to simply run without. And when you can't function without boons, and your boons are getting ripped, then the best play is to stack more boons to cover your losses.

Scourge has an enormous amount of boon hate and I think it was put there to punish boon spam in PvP and WvW.Scourge's boonhate is hardly enormous. Punishment skills are too low radius to mean much with the exception of Ghastly Breach. Unending Corruption is the only Scourge exclusive boonrip that means much of anything.

But yes the devs certainly put Scourge in the game to fight boons because the devs are still living in 2016. Boons are not a issue anymore, practically every build is running boonrip sigils nowadays, on top of mesmers, spellbreakers, S/d thieves, and necros of all variants bring their own class specific boonrip. I record every match I play, and looking through I can easily make note of how many boons people typically have, and with the exception of firebrands and Engineers, most builds do not have more than 3-4 unique types of boons on them at a given time.

[Axl.8924]

Crinn your a engi, can you condi bomb that necro or go holosmith?

You got that gunk thing attack that gives people a bajlllion condis.

[Crinn.7864]

@"Axl.8924" said:Crinn your a engi, can you condi bomb that necro or go holosmith?

You got that gunk thing attack that gives people a bajlllion condis.

I do not play Engi, although I do have one. The only classes I play with any regularity are necro and to a lesser extent warrior.

Also by "gunk thing" I assume you mean either-> The drop gunk skill that is procced by using Mortar Kit with the Streamlined Kits trait-> The stolen skill that thieves get when stealing from engisEither of those are extremely weak and are very tiny radius.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

I dunno, I have no problems with Scourges on full Zerk Ranger Greatsword (longbow is my other weapon, but it's fun to go at it without weapon swapping for extra challenge). Yeah, I do that (both WvW and PvP). The only boons I ever have are Fury and Vigor. Guess what? I see very little pressure from Scourges because they can't corrupt anything meaningful!

Oh, and this is Core Ranger. Not Druid or Soulbeast (I do have Druid fully unlocked and am 40 hero points from finishing Soulbeast). It's an exceedingly easy matchup. Yes, a good part of it is my familiarity with Scourge. I know what I can and can't take, how to avoid skills without using active defenses, and so on. That all helps. I also know that they can't corrupt anything on me except get a few blinds.

[Crinn.7864]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:I dunno, I have no problems with Scourges on full Zerk Ranger Greatsword (longbow is my other weapon, but it's fun to go at it without weapon swapping for extra challenge). Yeah, I do that (both WvW and PvP). The only boons I ever have are Fury and Vigor. Guess what? I see very little pressure from Scourges because they can't corrupt anything meaningful!

Oh, and this is Core Ranger. Not Druid or Soulbeast. It's an exceedingly easy matchup.

The reason your zerk LB ranger has no trouble with Scourges has absolutely nothing to do with your (lack of) boon generation.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:I dunno, I have no problems with Scourges on full Zerk Ranger Greatsword (longbow is my other weapon, but it's fun to go at it without weapon swapping for extra challenge). Yeah, I do that (both WvW and PvP). The only boons I ever have are Fury and Vigor. Guess what? I see very little pressure from Scourges because they can't corrupt anything meaningful!

Oh, and this is Core Ranger. Not Druid or Soulbeast. It's an exceedingly easy matchup.

The reason your zerk LB ranger has no trouble with Scourges has absolutely nothing to do with your (lack of) boon generation.

Greatsword, buddy. I do believe I explicitly said I frequently don't bother weapon swapping from Greatsword.

Sure, Longbow is a free kill. The weapon I actually use is very close to it as well.

[Axl.8924]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:I dunno, I have no problems with Scourges on full Zerk Ranger Greatsword (longbow is my other weapon, but it's fun to go at it without weapon swapping for extra challenge). Yeah, I do that (both WvW and PvP). The only boons I ever have are Fury and Vigor. Guess what? I see very little pressure from Scourges because they can't corrupt anything meaningful!

Oh, and this is Core Ranger. Not Druid or Soulbeast. It's an exceedingly easy matchup.

The reason your zerk LB ranger has no trouble with Scourges has absolutely nothing to do with your (lack of) boon generation.

Greatsword, buddy. I do believe I explicitly said I frequently don't bother weapon swapping from Greatsword.

Sure, Longbow is a free kill. The weapon I actually use is very close to it as well.

I killed a scourge with a D/S thief with a little trouble.If he's being focused on by myself and a few others its definitely easier, but if i'm by myself, then yeah its difficult because of the fear and boon corrupt.Last time i did pvp match whichi won, the scourge actually feared me then corrupted my boons because i was too slow to escape his deadly aoe.I should have used teleport away.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:I dunno, I have no problems with Scourges on full Zerk Ranger Greatsword (longbow is my other weapon, but it's fun to go at it without weapon swapping for extra challenge). Yeah, I do that (both WvW and PvP). The only boons I ever have are Fury and Vigor. Guess what? I see very little pressure from Scourges because they can't corrupt anything meaningful!

Oh, and this is Core Ranger. Not Druid or Soulbeast. It's an exceedingly easy matchup.

The reason your zerk LB ranger has no trouble with Scourges has absolutely nothing to do with your (lack of) boon generation.

Greatsword, buddy. I do believe I explicitly said I frequently don't bother weapon swapping from Greatsword.

Sure, Longbow is a free kill. The weapon I actually use is very close to it as well.

I killed a scourge with a D/S thief with a little trouble.If he's being focused on by myself and a few others its definitely easier, but if i'm by myself, then yeah its difficult because of the fear and boon corrupt.Last time i did pvp match whichi won, the scourge actually feared me then corrupted my boons because i was too slow to escape his deadly aoe.I should have used teleport away.

See, Ranger Greatsword actually has fantastic tools for preventing that. Swoop is a 1/2 second evade which allows me to avoid every Garish Pillar without problem, for example. Obviously, this didn't work before the delay got added, but since then it's a perfect tool. I never have Stability, so I never get Feared due to corruption. I'm constantly trying to circle around behind anyway for the stronger Hilt Bash, so effectively protected from Torch skills, and the evade on auto actually is pretty strong for relieving pressure while the block is always good (tip: back off slightly when using it into Desert Shroud so the counterattack is never triggered to end your block period, unless the necro is on staff at that moment). Plus, you know, no boons to corrupt in the first place.

[Nimon.7840]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:I dunno, I have no problems with Scourges on full Zerk Ranger Greatsword (longbow is my other weapon, but it's fun to go at it without weapon swapping for extra challenge). Yeah, I do that (both WvW and PvP). The only boons I ever have are Fury and Vigor. Guess what? I see very little pressure from Scourges because they can't corrupt anything meaningful!

Oh, and this is Core Ranger. Not Druid or Soulbeast. It's an exceedingly easy matchup.

The reason your zerk LB ranger has no trouble with Scourges has absolutely nothing to do with your (lack of) boon generation.

Greatsword, buddy. I do believe I explicitly said I frequently don't bother weapon swapping from Greatsword.

Sure, Longbow is a free kill. The weapon I actually use is very close to it as well.

I killed a scourge with a D/S thief with a little trouble.If he's being focused on by myself and a few others its definitely easier, but if i'm by myself, then yeah its difficult because of the fear and boon corrupt.Last time i did pvp match whichi won, the scourge actually feared me then corrupted my boons because i was too slow to escape his deadly aoe.I should have used teleport away.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:I dunno, I have no problems with Scourges on full Zerk Ranger Greatsword (longbow is my other weapon, but it's fun to go at it without weapon swapping for extra challenge). Yeah, I do that (both WvW and PvP). The only boons I ever have are Fury and Vigor. Guess what? I see very little pressure from Scourges because they can't corrupt anything meaningful!

Oh, and this is Core Ranger. Not Druid or Soulbeast. It's an exceedingly easy matchup.

The reason your zerk LB ranger has no trouble with Scourges has absolutely nothing to do with your (lack of) boon generation.

Greatsword, buddy. I do believe I explicitly said I frequently don't bother weapon swapping from Greatsword.

Sure, Longbow is a free kill. The weapon I actually use is very close to it as well.

I killed a scourge with a D/S thief with a little trouble.If he's being focused on by myself and a few others its definitely easier, but if i'm by myself, then yeah its difficult because of the fear and boon corrupt.Last time i did pvp match whichi won, the scourge actually feared me then corrupted my boons because i was too slow to escape his deadly aoe.I should have used teleport away.

As a thief its pretty easy to kill scourges. Go sword/pistol or dagger/pistol and fight him.Interrupt him all day long, evade like crazy, teleport away if you have no evades left.

Last week i had an enemy thief in wvw. We needed 5 people to get him, and he still managed to down someone.

You cant do that on scourge. You have to facetank everything. Sure you have 2 dodges, but afterwards you are a cc-able piece of kitten.

That asks to be locked down

[ZDragon.3046]

@Crinn.7864 said:

Or you could realize that running boonless just means that the Scourge has even less trouble killing you, nevermind how easy it will be for his teammates. I've put in a large amount of time running a slew of different builds including boonless ones, and I can absolutely assure you that running boonless will leave you far worse off even against a Scourge. No boons means that your offensive pressure is weak, and your sustain is worse. So you will simultaneously have less ability to pressure the Scourge while at the same time you will be very easy to counterpressure.Not to mention that there are several classes in the game where boon generation is a integral part of their sustain. Examples include: Reaper(Blighter's), Core Warrior(Might Makes Right), Tempest, and Herald

Reaper is not the best example regardless of boon rip your sustain is still fubar compared to other professions. For a long while it was common for reapers to take deathly over blighters. Blighters was never a strong of a sustain tool as it should have been when you see what the game allows other professions to get away with now.

When we think professions that absolutely need the boons for pressure and sustain. We think Ele and Rev with glint to an extent. Maybe even warriors with their defensive boons.

Boons are not a issue anymore, practically every build is running boonrip sigils nowadays, on top of mesmers, spellbreakers, S/d thieves, and necros of all variants bring their own class specific boonrip. I record every match I play, and looking through I can easily make note of how many boons people typically have, and with the exception of firebrands and Engineers, most builds do not have more than 3-4 unique types of boons on them at a given time.

hmmmmm.. questionableMesmers only use the boon strip because its EZ / semi free on shatters and the phantasm that removes boons deals a ton of damage right now.

Spell breakers are a given its built into their kit passively for the most part and break enchantments is a near instant 4-6k button press on a low cd i dont think people play spell breaking specificity for boon rip it hits hard and has a great profession mechanic not to mention the reduction of things like zerker stance. Spell breaker makes up for the loss of resistance

S/D thiefs likely dont bring it for the boon rip. S/D has the hardest burst for power thief right now with the bonus of evades built in and the boon strip also just happens to be there. Its also one of the best engage / disengage weapons in the game which is what thief needs for it playstyle/role.

Necro is almost the exception. Usually you dont bring boon rips on necro because they hurt or deal massive chunks of damage, you bring them because you need them or your chances of being relevant in the fight drop intensely. You need to remove that resistance, you need to remove that stability, you need to turn that might into weakness as you usually cant leave a fight once you commit to it.

[DeceiverX.8361]

S/D thief doesn't have the highest burst. D/X and staff out-damage it in every regard. S/D has probably the second-lowest damage of the power kits available to thief.

S/D thief is played right now because it hard-counters Firebrand and all of the block-spamming in the game because its primary burst is part of an evade chain, is unblockable, resets steal, and steals boons with a great cleansing disengage tool.

It's a double-counter to the meta right now which is spam conditions/CC and blocks. D/P isn't played because despite having way more damage, it can't reliably get its hits in.The problem with S/D is how the best move in basically any situation is to mash 3 because the rest of its skills are used at most once per engage or outright suck most of the time in the case of OH dagger, and Acro covers its weaknesses without requiring any more from the player.

[Lexan.5930]

Scourge will probably get nerfed again after this patch for WvW and PvP. We got reduced damage, reduced duration on condis, reduced Condi damage and reduced everything Basicly. We're getting another nerf on cooldowns and the burst of other classes probably wont get changed. So necros will again have bad survivability and lowered damage output and still low mobility and defensive options.

Rip scourge in pvp

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Nord.1492 said:

@Axl.8924 said:...because everyone runs massive boons.

I dont get it why people not complaining about THIS. Its massively unfair that some classes are running millions of boons, hitting like a truck, almost invulnerable complaining about the only class which makes kitten right.

Except Scourge doesn't make it right, Scourge actually promotes boonspam because you need boonspam to replace the boons lost to Scourge. The builds getting hit the hardest by boonrip are the builds that have moderate boon generation because they cannot replace the lost boons.

It's also worth noting that Scourge's boonrip isn't actually that exceptional. Scourge actually has less single target boonrip than the HoT era condi reaper builds did. The difference however is that Scourge does more condi burst than even procmancer did while also having way better sustain and utility than condi reaper did even when reaper was at the height of it's potency.

Or you could react to the fact that Scourge and Spellbreaker are a thing and built stuff that's less dependant on boon spam?Or you could realize that running boonless just means that the Scourge has even less trouble killing you, nevermind how easy it will be for his teammates. I've put in a large amount of time running a slew of different builds including boonless ones, and I can absolutely assure you that running boonless will leave you far worse off even against a Scourge. No boons means that your offensive pressure is weak, and your sustain is worse. So you will simultaneously have less ability to pressure the Scourge while at the same time you will be very easy to counterpressure.Not to mention that there are several classes in the game where boon generation is a integral part of their sustain. Examples include: Reaper(Blighter's), Core Warrior(Might Makes Right), Tempest, and Herald

The fact of the matter is that, contrary to popular belief, very little of Scourge's offensive power comes from boonrip. The vast bulk of Scourge's damage comes from weapon skills, Shade Autos, and F5. Running a boonless build is not going to magically prevent you from getting vaporized by a Scourge.

Dude seriously, stop hating Scourge if you don't know what you're talking about...If all the damage from Scourge was from that, then Core necro would be equally strong. Shade autos? You mean that 200 damage + 1 stack of Torment and 1 stack of burning? That's your

big damage

? And F5, another stack of Torment every couple seconds... Yeah that's amazing damage... Too bad just about any other condi class can do that in their sleep.If that's OP damage then where are all the Malyx Renegades? They can put out as much if not much more torment. I'm not even going to talk about Mirage Axes...

[needbeer.1687]

the only thing anet buffs on necros are things we dont use because they suck. or things that fit into no build at all.