Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged] - Page 29 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

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  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    Whatever~

    I blame myself for thinking feedback worked for the PVP sphere.

    S'all good, they can do what they want. I'll be polite about it. <3

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    Whatever~

    I blame myself for thinking feedback worked for the PVP sphere.

    S'all good, they can do what they want.

    It's a toxic relationship at this point. Maybe this time I'll cut off Anet...

  • Small staps wouldn't be a problem if they did more often balancing. If they would do those small staps every 2 weeks then yes it will chance, but on the pace the go now it will take years before mesmer is on a normal level. Juist nerf EVERY SKILL OF EVEYR CLASS with 50% and nerf mesmer wiht 75% that would make the game again fun less power creep. Even if you nerf mesmer with 25% more then the others they will be fine. STOP WITH THE BUFFS

  • Devilman.1532Devilman.1532 Member ✭✭✭

    Guess what kids? The jokes on all of us.

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2018

    @CaldaRaric.6305 said:

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:

    @CaldaRaric.6305 said:
    After coming back to my Mesmer main I can tell this is a L2P issue. It’s so easy to spot when you get taunted by the ID. Like, the fact that people say they can’t see it because of the illusion spam makes me laugh. I used to cry about the illusion spam until I learned to play against a Mesmer. They are also definitely really not that hard to pick out the real one.

    Hint, when you get taunted, your target changes and you lose control of your character and start running towards the ID while auto attacking. Your screen also flashes. You also get a symbol above your head.

    You people REALLY can’t tell you are attacking it???

    LEARN TO PLAY.

    Again, 1 mesmer is fine, 2 (or more because people swap and exploit this stupid) is quickly ridiculous. 3 and I would love to see videos of teams that beat a team with 3 mesmers in it. And yes it is a visual mess (just like scourge can be when they team up). Unlike scourge though, which -has- counters, mesmers have no good counters, or it requires nerfing your build to oblivion.
    And again, the risk/reward is ridiculously generous for mesmer, they take no/very little risk doing anything unlike other classes. If you miss your one shot it's not a big deal.

    You’ve never played a Mesmer I take it. A Scourge(2 on other team in every match) is a lot worse than Mesmers are. There is usually only 1 Mesmer on opposite team. There is always 2 Scourges on opposite team. Scourge should not exist in conquest. Mesmers do have a counter and it’s called people who know what the kitten they’re doing.

    I melt Chronos every time I see them. Don’t know what the problem is.

    You're completely avoiding the main issue with mesmer: very low risk for high reward.

    I stopped playing necro post PoF due to how scourge contributes in ruining pvp and especially wvw. They bring a visual mess and you only need to keep spamming for it.
    But that's not the point. Scourge has clear weaknesses: It's slow, easy to cc, no stealth etc.
    "Mesmers do have a counter and it’s called people who know what the kitten they’re doing." is not a counter, it's arrogance. It's not because you can avoid an attack (really, we are allowed to avoid mesmer attacks?) that it makes it a balanced class. They do bring high damage, high mobility, easy to run away, stealth, brings visual mess, and all of that for very little risk. What are the mesmer weaknesses exactly?

    And there are definitely groups with 2 mesmers or more right now.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2018

    Power Mesmers aren't even that much of a problem. Their burst is easy to avoid as long as you see them before the engagement. Condi is where the real problem likes, or moreso the ease of application. I fought a condi-mirage yesterday. I cleansed the 10 stacks of confusion, 12 stacks of torment, 3 stacks of burning. Within the same second, I had another 6 stacks of torment, 8 stacks of confusion and 3 stacks of bleeding...you can only imagine that I barely managed to cleanse those before the same amount was almost immediately reapplied. Am I not bringing enough clears? It's seriously not a fun engagement.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Darknicrofia.2604Darknicrofia.2604 Member ✭✭✭

    The problem is chronos can spam so many phantasms that it basically reverts the entire god kitten map into a pre 2013 culling update wvw zerg map where you can't even render character models properly.

    And Anet did absolutely nothing to address it.

  • rank eleven monk.9502rank eleven monk.9502 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2018

    Chrono still overtuned in spvp. The bunker capabilities need a nerf. Damage is managable. If we only focus on number changes (probably this way the nerf is going to be quicker), my suggestions:

    Bountiful Disillusionment:
    Stability: 2 seconds (from 3) - by far the most important, the stability spam is still unreal
    Vigor: 5 seconds (from 8)
    Fury, Regen: 8 seconds (from 10)

    Illusionary Defense: -3% or -4% incoming damage (from 5%), duration remains the same
    Signet of the Ether: It's a decent heal skill with a relatively low recharge while maintaining an incredibly strong secondary utility. Phantasm spam is still opressive because of this and Alacrity combined. Suggestion: Recharge reduction 25% or 33% instead of 50%

    Other than this, the only thing I'd consider changing is staff3 to create only one phantasm.

    Lot of people are overexaggarating the problems of chrono, these changes would put it in line with most builds.

    Also Confounding Suggestions ICD should be changed to 10 sec (was 5 seconds, now 15) because right now it's a useless trait.

    p.s.: the next mesmer build people will complain about will be condi mirage (again)

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2018

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Power Mesmers aren't even that much of a problem. Their burst is easy to avoid as long as you see them before the engagement. Condi is where the real problem likes, or moreso the ease of application. I fought a condi-mirage yesterday. I cleansed the 10 stacks of confusion, 12 stacks of torment, 3 stacks of burning. Within the same second, I had another 6 stacks of torment, 8 stacks of confusion and 3 stacks of bleeding...you can only imagine that I barely managed to cleanse those before the same amount was almost immediately reapplied. Am I not bringing enough clears? It's seriously not a fun engagement.

    The confusion is not deadly at all as long as you don't cast into it. No joke, I could dump over 30 stacks of confusion on you and so long as you don't attack it'll maybe do 30% of your total health depending on the class. No joke. It was testing it on a friend and who was on deadshot scourge seeing exactly how much damage I could do to him with just confusion stacks and him just eating it, no barrier or anything and that's what over 30 stacks of confusion would do to him.

    Burning is the deadliest thing in condi mirage's arsenal and that comes from the torch skills. If you're going to beat a condi mirage, the key is to understand the rhythm of the torch skills and avoid them. The prestige is a 3 second stealth and has a very obvious animation and sound queue when they go into stealth. Once the stealth is over they'll explode out of stealth for a ton of burning damage. Next is the phantasmal mage which has two pulses of burning. First is around the mesmer themselves when initially cast. I actually kind of really dislike this aspect of the skill and would rather all the burning of the skill get reweighted onto the phantasm. The phantasm has a very obvious wind up before attacking with another wave of fire in a cone and dazing. This wind up is the exact same animation as the unbound mining tool if you've ever seen it. It'll levitate into the air, lift it's hands back and thrust them forward like it's casting a hadoken and when it thrusts it's hands out is when they attack will land.

    I think condi mirage should have some of the burning stacks trimmed from the torch skills. No joke if all three attacks land on you it's 10 stacks of burning for 18k damage so cleanse it, resist it, barrier it or die. Even if they have counter play and can predictably be avoided they're honestly over performing.

    As a condi mirage I'll often deliberately feint with a minor condi shatter to bait cleanses before going in with the torch for the kill.

    But yeah, once Chrono is no longer god tier condi mirage will be a more dominant presence in the metagame.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 10, 2018

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Power Mesmers aren't even that much of a problem. Their burst is easy to avoid as long as you see them before the engagement. Condi is where the real problem likes, or moreso the ease of application. I fought a condi-mirage yesterday. I cleansed the 10 stacks of confusion, 12 stacks of torment, 3 stacks of burning. Within the same second, I had another 6 stacks of torment, 8 stacks of confusion and 3 stacks of bleeding...you can only imagine that I barely managed to cleanse those before the same amount was almost immediately reapplied. Am I not bringing enough clears? It's seriously not a fun engagement.

    The confusion is not deadly at all as long as you don't cast into it. No joke, I could dump over 30 stacks of confusion on you and so long as you don't attack it'll maybe do 30% of your total health depending on the class. No joke. It was testing it on a friend and who was on deadshot scourge seeing exactly how much damage I could do to him with just confusion stacks and him just eating it, no barrier or anything and that's what over 30 stacks of confusion would do to him.

    Burning is the deadliest thing in condi mirage's arsenal and that comes from the torch skills. If you're going to beat a condi mirage, the key is to understand the rhythm of the torch skills and avoid them. The prestige is a 3 second stealth and has a very obvious animation and sound queue when they go into stealth. Once the stealth is over they'll explode out of stealth for a ton of burning damage. Next is the phantasmal mage which has two pulses of burning. First is around the mesmer themselves when initially cast. I actually kind of really dislike this aspect of the skill and would rather all the burning of the skill get reweighted onto the phantasm. The phantasm has a very obvious wind up before attacking with another wave of fire in a cone and dazing. This wind up is the exact same animation as the unbound mining tool if you've ever seen it. It'll levitate into the air, lift it's hands back and thrust them forward like it's casting a hadoken and when it thrusts it's hands out is when they attack will land.

    I think condi mirage should have some of the burning stacks trimmed from the torch skills. No joke if all three attacks land on you it's 10 stacks of burning for 18k damage so cleanse it, resist it, barrier it or die. Even if they have counter play and can predictably be avoided they're honestly over performing.

    As a condi mirage I'll often deliberately feint with a minor condi shatter to bait cleanses before going in with the torch for the kill.

    But yeah, once Chrono is no longer god tier condi mirage will be a more dominant presence in the metagame.

    "No joke" 30 stacks of confusion means I can't do anything except walk around while the Mirage can continue to apply more stacks of confusion and torment and burn to make sure that I continue to not be able to do anything. I can't even cleanse without taking damage from the confusion. Can't port away to wait it out, can't stealth, can't even auto attack. All of that is punishing, I am punished for actually trying to play my profession... "No joke" how is that fair again?

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Power Mesmers aren't even that much of a problem. Their burst is easy to avoid as long as you see them before the engagement. Condi is where the real problem likes, or moreso the ease of application. I fought a condi-mirage yesterday. I cleansed the 10 stacks of confusion, 12 stacks of torment, 3 stacks of burning. Within the same second, I had another 6 stacks of torment, 8 stacks of confusion and 3 stacks of bleeding...you can only imagine that I barely managed to cleanse those before the same amount was almost immediately reapplied. Am I not bringing enough clears? It's seriously not a fun engagement.

    The confusion is not deadly at all as long as you don't cast into it. No joke, I could dump over 30 stacks of confusion on you and so long as you don't attack it'll maybe do 30% of your total health depending on the class. No joke. It was testing it on a friend and who was on deadshot scourge seeing exactly how much damage I could do to him with just confusion stacks and him just eating it, no barrier or anything and that's what over 30 stacks of confusion would do to him.

    Burning is the deadliest thing in condi mirage's arsenal and that comes from the torch skills. If you're going to beat a condi mirage, the key is to understand the rhythm of the torch skills and avoid them. The prestige is a 3 second stealth and has a very obvious animation and sound queue when they go into stealth. Once the stealth is over they'll explode out of stealth for a ton of burning damage. Next is the phantasmal mage which has two pulses of burning. First is around the mesmer themselves when initially cast. I actually kind of really dislike this aspect of the skill and would rather all the burning of the skill get reweighted onto the phantasm. The phantasm has a very obvious wind up before attacking with another wave of fire in a cone and dazing. This wind up is the exact same animation as the unbound mining tool if you've ever seen it. It'll levitate into the air, lift it's hands back and thrust them forward like it's casting a hadoken and when it thrusts it's hands out is when they attack will land.

    I think condi mirage should have some of the burning stacks trimmed from the torch skills. No joke if all three attacks land on you it's 10 stacks of burning for 18k damage so cleanse it, resist it, barrier it or die. Even if they have counter play and can predictably be avoided they're honestly over performing.

    As a condi mirage I'll often deliberately feint with a minor condi shatter to bait cleanses before going in with the torch for the kill.

    But yeah, once Chrono is no longer god tier condi mirage will be a more dominant presence in the metagame.

    "No joke" 30 stacks of confusion means I can't do anything except walk around while the Mirage can continue to apply more stacks of confusion and torment and burn to make sure that I continue to not be able to do anything. I can't even cleanse without taking damage from the confusion. Can't port away to wait it out, can't stealth, can't even auto attack. All of that is punishing, I am punished for actually trying to play my profession... "No joke" how is that fair again?

    If they're running the meta build it's very hit it run and kite dependent. It doesn't actually have that much sustained damage at all. It's constrained by the limitations of it's shatter skills. If they've botched their burst they'll be mostly on the defensive until their shatter skills are up again. They can throw out a lot more chip damage over time compared to say a Greatsword mesmer but if you survive the initial burst where they'll attempt to drop 20-30 confusion on you, the 3-4 stacks they'll maintain on you while they wait for another burst is not all that punishing. There's a lot you can do, you can cleanse it or pop resistance or just avoid getting hit in the first place.

    90% of condi mirages are going to time their entire burst to land right when The Prestige lands, so if you can avoid the Prestige you've made huge head ways into the fight. My advice is just get a guy to play condi mirage and head into a 1v1 hotjoin and just get some good practice in avoiding the skill.

    Also Vallun has an excellent video detailing how 1v1ing a condimirage plays out from the perspective of thief. Even if you don't play thief it's still an excellent detail into what the build is capable of.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=IN9xmAXaozc&t=9m48s

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Power Mesmers aren't even that much of a problem. Their burst is easy to avoid as long as you see them before the engagement. Condi is where the real problem likes, or moreso the ease of application. I fought a condi-mirage yesterday. I cleansed the 10 stacks of confusion, 12 stacks of torment, 3 stacks of burning. Within the same second, I had another 6 stacks of torment, 8 stacks of confusion and 3 stacks of bleeding...you can only imagine that I barely managed to cleanse those before the same amount was almost immediately reapplied. Am I not bringing enough clears? It's seriously not a fun engagement.

    The confusion is not deadly at all as long as you don't cast into it. No joke, I could dump over 30 stacks of confusion on you and so long as you don't attack it'll maybe do 30% of your total health depending on the class. No joke. It was testing it on a friend and who was on deadshot scourge seeing exactly how much damage I could do to him with just confusion stacks and him just eating it, no barrier or anything and that's what over 30 stacks of confusion would do to him.

    Burning is the deadliest thing in condi mirage's arsenal and that comes from the torch skills. If you're going to beat a condi mirage, the key is to understand the rhythm of the torch skills and avoid them. The prestige is a 3 second stealth and has a very obvious animation and sound queue when they go into stealth. Once the stealth is over they'll explode out of stealth for a ton of burning damage. Next is the phantasmal mage which has two pulses of burning. First is around the mesmer themselves when initially cast. I actually kind of really dislike this aspect of the skill and would rather all the burning of the skill get reweighted onto the phantasm. The phantasm has a very obvious wind up before attacking with another wave of fire in a cone and dazing. This wind up is the exact same animation as the unbound mining tool if you've ever seen it. It'll levitate into the air, lift it's hands back and thrust them forward like it's casting a hadoken and when it thrusts it's hands out is when they attack will land.

    I think condi mirage should have some of the burning stacks trimmed from the torch skills. No joke if all three attacks land on you it's 10 stacks of burning for 18k damage so cleanse it, resist it, barrier it or die. Even if they have counter play and can predictably be avoided they're honestly over performing.

    As a condi mirage I'll often deliberately feint with a minor condi shatter to bait cleanses before going in with the torch for the kill.

    But yeah, once Chrono is no longer god tier condi mirage will be a more dominant presence in the metagame.

    "No joke" 30 stacks of confusion means I can't do anything except walk around while the Mirage can continue to apply more stacks of confusion and torment and burn to make sure that I continue to not be able to do anything. I can't even cleanse without taking damage from the confusion. Can't port away to wait it out, can't stealth, can't even auto attack. All of that is punishing, I am punished for actually trying to play my profession... "No joke" how is that fair again?

    If they're running the meta build it's very hit it run and kite dependent. It doesn't actually have that much sustained damage at all. It's constrained by the limitations of it's shatter skills. If they've botched their burst they'll be mostly on the defensive until their shatter skills are up again. They can throw out a lot more chip damage over time compared to say a Greatsword mesmer but if you survive the initial burst where they'll attempt to drop 20-30 confusion on you, the 3-4 stacks they'll maintain on you while they wait for another burst is not all that punishing. There's a lot you can do, you can cleanse it or pop resistance or just avoid getting hit in the first place.

    90% of condi mirages are going to time their entire burst to land right when The Prestige lands, so if you can avoid the Prestige you've made huge head ways into the fight. My advice is just get a guy to play condi mirage and head into a 1v1 hotjoin and just get some good practice in avoiding the skill.

    Also Vallun has an excellent video detailing how 1v1ing a condimirage plays out from the perspective of thief. Even if you don't play thief it's still an excellent detail into what the build is capable of.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=IN9xmAXaozc&t=9m48s

    Thanks for the link. I'll look into this.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Power Mesmers aren't even that much of a problem. Their burst is easy to avoid as long as you see them before the engagement. Condi is where the real problem likes, or moreso the ease of application. I fought a condi-mirage yesterday. I cleansed the 10 stacks of confusion, 12 stacks of torment, 3 stacks of burning. Within the same second, I had another 6 stacks of torment, 8 stacks of confusion and 3 stacks of bleeding...you can only imagine that I barely managed to cleanse those before the same amount was almost immediately reapplied. Am I not bringing enough clears? It's seriously not a fun engagement.

    The confusion is not deadly at all as long as you don't cast into it. No joke, I could dump over 30 stacks of confusion on you and so long as you don't attack it'll maybe do 30% of your total health depending on the class. No joke. It was testing it on a friend and who was on deadshot scourge seeing exactly how much damage I could do to him with just confusion stacks and him just eating it, no barrier or anything and that's what over 30 stacks of confusion would do to him.

    Burning is the deadliest thing in condi mirage's arsenal and that comes from the torch skills. If you're going to beat a condi mirage, the key is to understand the rhythm of the torch skills and avoid them. The prestige is a 3 second stealth and has a very obvious animation and sound queue when they go into stealth. Once the stealth is over they'll explode out of stealth for a ton of burning damage. Next is the phantasmal mage which has two pulses of burning. First is around the mesmer themselves when initially cast. I actually kind of really dislike this aspect of the skill and would rather all the burning of the skill get reweighted onto the phantasm. The phantasm has a very obvious wind up before attacking with another wave of fire in a cone and dazing. This wind up is the exact same animation as the unbound mining tool if you've ever seen it. It'll levitate into the air, lift it's hands back and thrust them forward like it's casting a hadoken and when it thrusts it's hands out is when they attack will land.

    I think condi mirage should have some of the burning stacks trimmed from the torch skills. No joke if all three attacks land on you it's 10 stacks of burning for 18k damage so cleanse it, resist it, barrier it or die. Even if they have counter play and can predictably be avoided they're honestly over performing.

    As a condi mirage I'll often deliberately feint with a minor condi shatter to bait cleanses before going in with the torch for the kill.

    But yeah, once Chrono is no longer god tier condi mirage will be a more dominant presence in the metagame.

    "No joke" 30 stacks of confusion means I can't do anything except walk around while the Mirage can continue to apply more stacks of confusion and torment and burn to make sure that I continue to not be able to do anything. I can't even cleanse without taking damage from the confusion. Can't port away to wait it out, can't stealth, can't even auto attack. All of that is punishing, I am punished for actually trying to play my profession... "No joke" how is that fair again?

    If they're running the meta build it's very hit it run and kite dependent. It doesn't actually have that much sustained damage at all. It's constrained by the limitations of it's shatter skills. If they've botched their burst they'll be mostly on the defensive until their shatter skills are up again. They can throw out a lot more chip damage over time compared to say a Greatsword mesmer but if you survive the initial burst where they'll attempt to drop 20-30 confusion on you, the 3-4 stacks they'll maintain on you while they wait for another burst is not all that punishing. There's a lot you can do, you can cleanse it or pop resistance or just avoid getting hit in the first place.

    90% of condi mirages are going to time their entire burst to land right when The Prestige lands, so if you can avoid the Prestige you've made huge head ways into the fight. My advice is just get a guy to play condi mirage and head into a 1v1 hotjoin and just get some good practice in avoiding the skill.

    Also Vallun has an excellent video detailing how 1v1ing a condimirage plays out from the perspective of thief. Even if you don't play thief it's still an excellent detail into what the build is capable of.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=IN9xmAXaozc&t=9m48s

    I'm talking purely WvW. I understand this thread is in the PvP section, but the merged aspect pulled from both WvW and sPvP subforums. Condi mirages in TB/Dire gear using Sw/Torch and Staff are beyond broken. How insecure do these players have to be to main something like this...

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Engi main , Has officially swapped over to Mesmer aka mirage :). I'll be honest this is 10x easier to play on then engi was LOL. Condi Mirage ftw

  • Kiritodatrth.1548Kiritodatrth.1548 Member ✭✭✭

    Balance team is partying and laughing of 1.4K comments and the most extensive useless topic in the Anet history...

  • Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Don't nerf my mirage. I will send you $5 if you don't.

  • Toron.4856Toron.4856 Member ✭✭✭

    god kitten anet. get ur kitten together alrdy. kitten balance team doesnt exist. this is ridiculous..

  • Imperadordf.2687Imperadordf.2687 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:
    Don't nerf my mirage. I will send you $5 if you don't.

    I'd give 10 more.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Condis have always been strong in PvP.

    Chrono is tanky but after the recent changes power based chrono is kind of on the level. We can have debates of survivability, but there are other classs who like to side node that need to be called into question at the same time.

    Condi mes builds (either chrono or mirage) has always been super strong given that all their shatters offer decent stacks, and most illusions offer solid damage vs their power counterparts. Condi builds can take what strengths power already has, giving up very little (in the context of conquest) and do more reliable pressure passively.

    Anyone complaining about power mirage its a l2p issue, it’s really not that hard to figure out and how to shut it down. It’s been explained to death.

    Chrono is still strong but the goal isn’t to remove it from the meta it’s to tone it down. Now both the cooldowns are returned less and the second summons from the strong gm trait is less. It was already able to be played around before, if you still cannot then you are just lost in clones.

    If you want to complain about condis yes it’s strong but that’s what happens when you have more effective damage for doing less, this is a game wide issue, not a Mesmer one. I’d be open for condi nerfs ofc but let’s not make it about Mesmer.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 11, 2018

    @Daishi.6027 said:
    Condis have always been strong in PvP.

    Chrono is tanky but after the recent changes power based chrono is kind of on the level. We can have debates of survivability, but there are other classs who like to side node that need to be called into question at the same time.

    Condi mes builds (either chrono or mirage) has always been super strong given that all their shatters offer decent stacks, and most illusions offer solid damage vs their power counterparts. Condi builds can take what strengths power already has, giving up very little (in the context of conquest) and do more reliable pressure passively.

    Anyone complaining about power mirage its a l2p issue, it’s really not that hard to figure out and how to shut it down. It’s been explained to death.

    Chrono is still strong but the goal isn’t to remove it from the meta it’s to tone it down. Now both the cooldowns are returned less and the second summons from the strong gm trait is less. It was already able to be played around before, if you still cannot then you are just lost in clones.

    If you want to complain about condis yes it’s strong but that’s what happens when you have more effective damage for doing less, this is a game wide issue, not a Mesmer one. I’d be open for condi nerfs ofc but let’s not make it about Mesmer.

    This whole thread is about Mesmer.

    I agree that Power Mesmers are not godmode and probably don't need much adjusting. It's Condi Mirage that is the main offender and offers extremely little counterplay due to the constant application of conditions. Everything they do farts out more conditions and they can do it in quick succession while remaining mobile - so they can continue to apply and apply and apply, far out-applying than one can cleanse. At least other condi builds like Scourge can't chase you while maintaining an infinite number of re-applications in quick succession.

    The source of this lazy and low-skill gameplay is the stupid amount of synergy between:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Maim_the_Disillusioned
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Dissipation
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ineptitude

    These are all on-top of their other insane amounts of torment/confusion/cover condis.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Sampson.2403Sampson.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Power Mesmers aren't even that much of a problem. Their burst is easy to avoid as long as you see them before the engagement. Condi is where the real problem likes, or moreso the ease of application. I fought a condi-mirage yesterday. I cleansed the 10 stacks of confusion, 12 stacks of torment, 3 stacks of burning. Within the same second, I had another 6 stacks of torment, 8 stacks of confusion and 3 stacks of bleeding...you can only imagine that I barely managed to cleanse those before the same amount was almost immediately reapplied. Am I not bringing enough clears? It's seriously not a fun engagement.

    The confusion is not deadly at all as long as you don't cast into it. No joke, I could dump over 30 stacks of confusion on you and so long as you don't attack it'll maybe do 30% of your total health depending on the class. No joke. It was testing it on a friend and who was on deadshot scourge seeing exactly how much damage I could do to him with just confusion stacks and him just eating it, no barrier or anything and that's what over 30 stacks of confusion would do to him.

    Burning is the deadliest thing in condi mirage's arsenal and that comes from the torch skills. If you're going to beat a condi mirage, the key is to understand the rhythm of the torch skills and avoid them. The prestige is a 3 second stealth and has a very obvious animation and sound queue when they go into stealth. Once the stealth is over they'll explode out of stealth for a ton of burning damage. Next is the phantasmal mage which has two pulses of burning. First is around the mesmer themselves when initially cast. I actually kind of really dislike this aspect of the skill and would rather all the burning of the skill get reweighted onto the phantasm. The phantasm has a very obvious wind up before attacking with another wave of fire in a cone and dazing. This wind up is the exact same animation as the unbound mining tool if you've ever seen it. It'll levitate into the air, lift it's hands back and thrust them forward like it's casting a hadoken and when it thrusts it's hands out is when they attack will land.

    I think condi mirage should have some of the burning stacks trimmed from the torch skills. No joke if all three attacks land on you it's 10 stacks of burning for 18k damage so cleanse it, resist it, barrier it or die. Even if they have counter play and can predictably be avoided they're honestly over performing.

    As a condi mirage I'll often deliberately feint with a minor condi shatter to bait cleanses before going in with the torch for the kill.

    But yeah, once Chrono is no longer god tier condi mirage will be a more dominant presence in the metagame.

    "No joke" 30 stacks of confusion means I can't do anything except walk around while the Mirage can continue to apply more stacks of confusion and torment and burn to make sure that I continue to not be able to do anything. I can't even cleanse without taking damage from the confusion. Can't port away to wait it out, can't stealth, can't even auto attack. All of that is punishing, I am punished for actually trying to play my profession... "No joke" how is that fair again?

    If they're running the meta build it's very hit it run and kite dependent. It doesn't actually have that much sustained damage at all. It's constrained by the limitations of it's shatter skills. If they've botched their burst they'll be mostly on the defensive until their shatter skills are up again. They can throw out a lot more chip damage over time compared to say a Greatsword mesmer but if you survive the initial burst where they'll attempt to drop 20-30 confusion on you, the 3-4 stacks they'll maintain on you while they wait for another burst is not all that punishing. There's a lot you can do, you can cleanse it or pop resistance or just avoid getting hit in the first place.

    90% of condi mirages are going to time their entire burst to land right when The Prestige lands, so if you can avoid the Prestige you've made huge head ways into the fight. My advice is just get a guy to play condi mirage and head into a 1v1 hotjoin and just get some good practice in avoiding the skill.

    Also Vallun has an excellent video detailing how 1v1ing a condimirage plays out from the perspective of thief. Even if you don't play thief it's still an excellent detail into what the build is capable of.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=IN9xmAXaozc&t=9m48s

    I'm talking purely WvW. I understand this thread is in the PvP section, but the merged aspect pulled from both WvW and sPvP subforums. Condi mirages in TB/Dire gear using Sw/Torch and Staff are beyond broken. How insecure do these players have to be to main something like this...

    Yes, because clearly choosing to play a fun strong build in a video game directly translates to being insecure.

  • Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Look at what they did to Rev and Druid. Expect the same for mes. In the next 6 months, i expect it to be nerfed so much that even core mes will be more viable lmao. That's what Anet does, tho. They release solid or OP specs on the launch of an expansion, people buy it and enjoy what's given. Some time passes, most everyone who plays the game has already purchased the expansion, and then comes the time to RIP the class, money is already made anyways.

  • AngelLovesFredrik.6741AngelLovesFredrik.6741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:
    Look at what they did to Rev and Druid. Expect the same for mes. In the next 6 months, i expect it to be nerfed so much that even core mes will be more viable lmao. That's what Anet does, tho. They release solid or OP specs on the launch of an expansion, people buy it and enjoy what's given. Some time passes, most everyone who plays the game has already purchased the expansion, and then comes the time to RIP the class, money is already made anyways.

    Yeah, that's why Chrono is the strongest class after almost three years. You're completely right.

    Also, the last nerf did nothing to address Chronomancer. Still having to deal with double boon-rip from disenchanter and quadruple taunt from defenders.
    They are still swimming in a sea of visual clutter, they still have permanent stability and 58% damage reduction.

    This class is no where near fine, nor do we want it to be meta. At least not this version of it. If you're advocating for it to stay as this boon / illusion spamming nonsense, you just like abusing it. No one enjoys playing against it.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Jalal.6783Jalal.6783 Member ✭✭✭

    Still broken, carries way too many players that don't deserve to having the success they are purely due to their selection of class and build

  • Magek.4718Magek.4718 Member ✭✭✭

    I just want my phantasms back, man. Couldn't the rework have been made optional by having it be a trait or something?

    I'm still not sure what to do with my mesmer now since I was phantasm build. Shatter was never fun for me. Maybe I should make a thread about it....

  • Gecko.1962Gecko.1962 Member ✭✭

    @Yukio blaster.9082 said:

    @Cyric.7813 said:
    Stop reading after Mirage cant oneshot

    Can you tell me the burst combo to one shot a necro like the fresh weaver can and i ll be thankful .

    Spawn clones

    F2

    ????

    GG you just 1 shot someone. Not enough damage? Rinse repeat.

  • Abraxxus.8971Abraxxus.8971 Member ✭✭✭

    2 cents here for what it's worth. The way I see it, if you want to balance mesmers...make it so that everytime you damage a clone/phantasm, the mesmer itself takes the same amount of damage. So you drop an AoE on a mesmers clones, the mesmers takes all that same damage as well.

    Bring back Ceara

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Abraxxus.8971 said:
    2 cents here for what it's worth. The way I see it, if you want to balance mesmers...make it so that everytime you damage a clone/phantasm, the mesmer itself takes the same amount of damage. So you drop an AoE on a mesmers clones, the mesmers takes all that same damage as well.

    Literally unplayable. Mesmer would stop being viable in all areas of the game.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • The balance team is using a scalpo and they need to use a kitten axe for the balance everything is to high with the damage the boon uptime and so. They need to nerf everything with 50% for all classes and for mesmer 75% and of course SPLIT PVP AND WVW FORM PVE. YOU DON"T WANT PVE NUMBERS IN YOUR PVP COMBAT. Stop using a scalpo and start cutting the numbers down. Power creep is no fun. Before HOT was the best balance of the game and then HOT came and it did go down hill form there on. Sorry for my hard language, but it need to be said.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Merge the new thread with this one too for the luls.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • After skimming this I can conclude one thing only : boy it must suck being a developer.

    Also buff core plz

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