Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged] - Page 5 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

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Comments

  • @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

  • @Abelisk.4527 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    The Mesmer redesign was expressly to force shattering. That requires that we have clones. So, ANET cannot reduce clones without either completely reverting the most recent redesign or utterly crippling Mesmer.

    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    They didn't force shattering, they just gave us a much bigger window to do so. This is obviously making Mesmer easier to play and more effective than ever. The burst nature of the Phantasms (NOT clones don't touch those!) is a little overtuned. I get it's for compensation for Phants not being able to attack more than once, but the changes have made this a double-edged sword.

    It’s only certain phantasms. Sword, zerker, defender and disenchanter are the culprits. A 10-15% nerf to base damage is how I would start. For instance is disenchanter hits a target with no boons it’s base power is a bit over 2k but consider how much boon spam is in game now its not bad.

    The other issue is Chrono Phantasma is cluttering screens and people don’t like it. So limit it to 3 clones and 3 phantasms. Or 3 and 4. The reasoning behind that is its the max number of phantasms without running SoE and Chrono.

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    This is a learn to play issue.

    Nah its just bad design. GW2 has a long history of AI clutter in pvp. Ranger petting zoo comes to mind.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

    Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Faux Play.6104Faux Play.6104 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    @BikeIsGone.8675 said:
    So after countless threads about how OP the GS burst on mesmer is (which btw has been basically the same since 2012 and was never considered "meta"), NOW its the AI spam......Not the perma 25 might, perma protection, the nigh-OPness that is chaotic persistence or the insane mobility from sword ambush.....but AI spam.
    Please try again with another thread. Once you have figured out what the actual issues with mesmer are.

    I think the Mesmer has the strongest cc burst in the game, but IMO that isn't that big of an issue. Mesmer has been top tier in PvP for a while. Then they get reworked and everything that was annoying about fighting a Mesmer got buffed across the board. They have even more escapes, able to cast skills while dodging on top of the fact that they have the most 0 cast time skills in the game, insane ability to spam boons, even greater access to spam AI, AI that does over 10k damage in one hit.....

    I wouldn't mind if they make a class that no one previously played like ele or rev OP for a season or two, but why buff a class that was already top tier, and make it even more annoying to fight against?

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Doomdesire.9365Doomdesire.9365 Member ✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    High burst, high mobility, instant cast shatters/mantras, decent sustain and very difficult to CC. I really don't understand why Mirage was given so much in each category. Similar high burst builds like PP deadeye/FA ele have no where no the same amount of sustain. Either significantly tone down the damage or significantly tone down the sustain. The changes listed in the recent split are inconsequential. Mirage will still be god tier, maybe even better because meta side noders got hit hard. It sucks when you have to nuke a certain aspect of a class rather than slightly tone it down, but that's exactly what they need to do, because at this rate it's going to take multiple balance patches to bring it in line.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    @bravan.3876 said:

    i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    Seeing such people like you im actually happy that you have no impact on balance, otherwise for example hated thief/engi would had 1 year cd on steal and forge or had cast time of 5 seconds both, do you get what i mean ? ;)

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Phantasms need 60% damage nerfs minimum. There's no reason why single attacks from random AI should hit for 11k repeatedly while stripping boons and ccing.

    im tired to discuss stuff with ppl that have no understanding and whatsoever and claim that memser hacking game and using all traitlines possible , you two. Now disenchanter absorbed defender ,doesnt get destroyed after 1 hit and keep smashing you till you die obsly ... (i will just point out meme moments from now on :D)
    There is alot of skills fall under category '99% damage nerf minimum' since you love exaggerating everywhere

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:
    It’s only certain phantasms. Sword, zerker, defender and disenchanter are the culprits. A 10-15% nerf to base damage is how I would start. For instance is disenchanter hits a target with no boons it’s base power is a bit over 2k but consider how much boon spam is in game now its not bad.

    They nerfing might generation and phantasm trait ,illusion damage trait etc thats affect all phantasms. (thats correct but WHY INCREASE CD ON IT????)
    Phantasms must do high damage (staff phantasms suddenly doesnt do much damage ...dissapointment) because they self destruct after hit/being interrupted. Swordsman must do high damage otherwise TF he is melee,stationary and can be interrupted and dodged that easly ? (why increase cd once again ?)
    Disenchanter-> they could nerf damage by whatever % but keep cd ,but no... increase cd...
    Defender phantasm -(reduce damage if they are lazy to rework) l2p ? Small radius , dont explode right after taunt, cleanse/breakstun/ walk away/block it ? Honestly its need another rework ... Something like you chose a place where this phantasm would be summoned and he would reduce damage taken for some % from all damage sources in aoe while having stability/high health. Something like that.

  • Lordrosicky.5813Lordrosicky.5813 Member ✭✭✭

    Why you people never learn? Mesmer is conceptually over powered and always has been. It wont get nerfed and even if it does then another equally good build will just pop up and dominate. The only way to do the job is to nerf their f1-f4 skills but anet wont do this because they all like mesmer. No point crying about it, just do like the rest of us and move on to other games :D

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well.

    Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. )

    Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    Seeing such people like you im actually happy that you have no impact on balance, otherwise for example hated thief/engi would had 1 year cd on steal and forge or had cast time of 5 seconds both, do you get what i mean ? ;)

    Lel i am not hating here, i play mesmer often enough myself not as main but i understand the class. When you think the new phantasm rule is not broken than you have no clue here. With the meta phantasm spam builds even carrried by a passive traitline like chaos (what should also get nerfed even more than they are planning to do) every noob can play this class and get higher ranked then they deserve.
    I am not one of the ppl calling the mesmer gs burst op like all newbies or just bad player do, a burst what exist since game release and never was near viable since hot (not even before, looking at helseth video- "Mesmer is not viable but i am" from pre hot). I guess you are just one of the player not having enough skill for a not op power mesmer spec in pvp but dw after anet finally nerfed this npc spam build enough you will for sure find another ez class you can switch to, that will carry you.

    For the power dmg superiority complex need to be looked at when all other classes get nerfed in sustain and have no passive carry anymore, but thats it for pure glass power shatterbuilds what is nothing more than a noobkiller but not viable vs half decent player when not played godlike.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • kodesh.2851kodesh.2851 Member ✭✭

    Keep complaining it won't matter. They can nerf things all the hell and it won't matter. There are 7 trait lines. I will find the cheese, move it where you will.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well.

    Not true, at least the pure glass shatterbuilds (ofc not the npc spam builds we have now) need a lot of skill to play well. These builds never were near viable aside from killing some noobs in low ranked pvp or in wvw. How many pure glass power shatter mesmer we had in top 250 in season 5-9 in EU? I didn't know a single but was told around max 3. For that you had to play this build like a god. And the reason was not that mesmer just had stronger builds, the biggest reason is that the build itself simply was/ is trash and way harder to play compared to everything else that is used in pvp.
    The thing with power shatter mes is, that the player which did not give up on that build, did not switch to other stronger and easier classes or mesmerbuilds are just very good player, they had to get very good to make an up build work. Means in the moment pure glass shattermes is not utterly trash (not op but also not utterly trash anymore) these ppl will just rekt everything ez. They are used to do well under way worse conditions. This together with mesmer being very confusing to new and bad player are the 2 reasons for mesmer getting so much hate since game release even when its up.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Meteor.3720 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well.

    Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. )

    Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf.

    I love reading your posts. They're always so amusing.
    Thanks for the laugh.

    Keep up the strong silver mentality!

    PS If you think dealing with mirage/ chrono is simply a "learn to play issue", then you are in fact the one who needs to learn to play and realise what your class is capable of in the hands of semi-competent players.

    Bring on the mesmer nerfs.

    I can deal with Mirages and chronos reasonably well, on a core build. So, yes, I do think it's a learn to play issue.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    @bravan.3876 said:

    You are beyond salvation ,not even joking ...You are from NA right ? I wouldnt be surprised at all given how much hate i get just by simply showing your absurd claims that clearly show how delusional you are about your so called 'understanding the class' .

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Taranis.7451 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @Meteor.3720 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well.

    Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. )

    Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf.

    I love reading your posts. They're always so amusing.
    Thanks for the laugh.

    Keep up the strong silver mentality!

    PS If you think dealing with mirage/ chrono is simply a "learn to play issue", then you are in fact the one who needs to learn to play and realise what your class is capable of in the hands of semi-competent players.

    Bring on the mesmer nerfs.

    I can deal with Mirages and chronos reasonably well, on a core build. So, yes, I do think it's a learn to play issue.

    You will be utterly and completely destroyed by a Platinum or Legendary Mesmer before you had time to react. Any average PvP player can handle Silver or Gold tier players regardless of the class used but these players simply aren't a reflection of the true power of a class.

    You missed the,( admittedly implied, ) point. I can beat players near my skill level, on a core build. Sometimes I can beat players who are alleged to be considerably better.

    It follows that another player should also be able to beat chronos and Mirages near there skill level. That's especially true if another player is using one of the new elite builds. This is simple logic.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    I also have a left hand issue/condition thats being treated daily/having surgery in june to help fix my left hand random spasm during match ups this shouldn't be an excuse or a scapegoat as to why you'll be in "silver".

    You can beat anything with any random troll build in silver and bronze it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... take it from someone who started silver 3 season ago and has been in plat2 for the last 3 seasons. It's a different ball game my friend and it's not the same as unrank.

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @Meteor.3720 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well.

    Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. )

    Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf.

    I love reading your posts. They're always so amusing.
    Thanks for the laugh.

    Keep up the strong silver mentality!

    PS If you think dealing with mirage/ chrono is simply a "learn to play issue", then you are in fact the one who needs to learn to play and realise what your class is capable of in the hands of semi-competent players.

    Bring on the mesmer nerfs.

    I can deal with Mirages and chronos reasonably well, on a core build. So, yes, I do think it's a learn to play issue.

    And again....that's on a mesmer , try on a core engi, core necro, core warrior, core ranger, or even core thief..... it's not the same, playing mesmer against mesmer is just about the same just slightly different abilities and 1 trait-line but the cloning issue is still the same.

    Again not to be rude but i have played against you often in rank/unrank and have camped you multiple times because of how easy it is.

  • @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

    Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

    Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    Zerker did get a buff when the Gs GM trait is taken as you two zerker doing 50% more damage.
    Anet would have to revert phantasm changes across all game modes and that is highly unlikely. So you’re best bet is to add a limit of the number of phantasm. 3 is a solid number as it accounts for having one set be two handed and the other a main and off hand.
    Swordsman not as strong as made out because it’s highly telegraphed. Disenchanter bounces and strips boons so it’s strong. How people are getting hit with defender is confusing to be but whatever. Staff phantasms are fine as they are.

    So in short, you need to come up with a better idea than reverting because it’s not going to happen. The PvE outcry would be more than Anet would want to put up with and they’ve stated they can split functions. When you want to have a logical conversation about it let me know.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    Remember when all the mesmers were crying that Warriors were Arenanet's favored child?

    Ha ha haha.

    That didn't change at all....dunno if you took the time to look at gw2 metabattle metabattle

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • MithranArkanere.8957MithranArkanere.8957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well, as long as they do not go condition or interrupt kall's warband, mesmers can't do much against a jalis/kalla revenant. Phantams get interrupted and turn into clones, and the clones die quickly.

    But with a greatsword and shatters they can easily interrupt them and they leave, while a mesmer can pop another clone right away. If the recharge of renegade skills was tied to the time the spirit was up, or if there was a trait to give them stability more easily other than quickly switching to jallies and dropping the road hoping it was fast enough, we'd have at least 1 decent counter.

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    I also have a left hand issue/condition thats being treated daily/having surgery in june to help fix my left hand random spasm during match ups this shouldn't be an excuse or a scapegoat as to why you'll be in "silver".

    You can beat anything with any random troll build in silver and bronze it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... take it from someone who started silver 3 season ago and has been in plat2 for the last 3 seasons. It's a different ball game my friend and it's not the same as unrank.

    It's not an excuse or scapegoat. I use both a razer tartarus ( for ergonomics) and a naga gaming mouse to make up most of the speed.

    As I pointed out in another post. I have beaten at least one former ESL player I met in unranked. So, yes I do have a certain skill level. Unranked is an interesting grab bag and recent matches have been seemed to be against plat rated players as often as not.

    A direct quote from your post: "it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... " As I understand it, You're saying that only a Mesmer can counter a Mesmer, because she understands the class and the mechanics.

    If that is the case then the way to deal with Mesmer is to gain "a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting." (sic)

    As I said, this is a learn to play issue.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zoopop.5630 said:
    And again....that's on a mesmer , try on a core engi, core necro, core warrior, core ranger, or even core thief..... it's not the same, playing mesmer against mesmer is just about the same just slightly different abilities and 1 trait-line but the cloning issue is still the same.

    Core engi and core necro wont kill anyone ... 4 Plasma isnt enough to freewin mesmer ? You and me in different dimensions it seems

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:
    Anet would have to revert phantasm changes across all game modes and that is highly unlikely.
    Swordsman not as strong as made out because it’s highly telegraphed. Disenchanter bounces and strips boons so it’s strong. How people are getting hit with defender is confusing to be but whatever. Staff phantasms are fine as they are.

    ^A thief, stolen everything from my post adressed to you :>

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @kodesh.2851 said:
    Keep complaining it won't matter. They can nerf things all the hell and it won't matter. There are 7 trait lines. I will find the cheese, move it where you will.

    The same could be said for any class except rev. Poor rev

    At least you got renegade for pve.

    Herald might be in a bad place, because heck having 1 niche role is ridiculous.

    Not sure why renegade is considered bad in pvp, i would need a massive explanation as to the issues with renegade.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2018

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    I also have a left hand issue/condition thats being treated daily/having surgery in june to help fix my left hand random spasm during match ups this shouldn't be an excuse or a scapegoat as to why you'll be in "silver".

    You can beat anything with any random troll build in silver and bronze it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... take it from someone who started silver 3 season ago and has been in plat2 for the last 3 seasons. It's a different ball game my friend and it's not the same as unrank.

    It's not an excuse or scapegoat. I use both a razer tartarus ( for ergonomics) and a naga gaming mouse to make up most of the speed.

    As I pointed out in another post. I have beaten at least one former ESL player I met in unranked. So, yes I do have a certain skill level. Unranked is an interesting grab bag and recent matches have been seemed to be against plat rated players as often as not.

    A direct quote from your post: "it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... " As I understand it, You're saying that only a Mesmer can counter a Mesmer, because she understands the class and the mechanics.

    If that is the case then the way to deal with Mesmer is to gain "a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting." (sic)

    As I said, this is a learn to play issue.

    Learn to play issue isn't the "issue" at hand LIKE i said the amount of clones being dropped during a fight and the UP time they have is the issue 1 being a complete cluster kitten, and 2 giving the class enough sustain with f4 /f5 or easy burst combo with hardly any skills needed. However if you want to go back and forth with everyone about how it's a "learn to play issue" then feel free to do so because it won't get you anywhere at all when your clueless to what making "OP" and "broken" with enough training wheels to make them easy to play compared to before where it took a bit more effort and knowledge of the class.

    btw "beating' an ESL player means absolutely nada and Which i already DOUBT you really did.....If your struggling to climb out of silver after more then a season.

    Mesmer was redesigned expressly to break non shattering "passive" playstyles. This necessitates more clones. By happy coincidence, it also finally makes Mesmer a little bit confusing to play against. This has been a dream for years.

    There would be essentially 3 possibilities for reducing clones: cripple Mesmer utterly, revert the entire last redesign or greatly buff the clones. The last option would more or less create a GW2 Ritualist with mobile spirits.

    With respect to "hardly any skill needed." I suggest you give it a try.

    That's me, at the 3v3 mid fight, standing over the body of the former esl play whom I have just stomped. Notice my pre-HoT PU Mesmer build. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith

    My point being that I do in fact have credible skills.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well.

    Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. )

    Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf.

    Try it in a 1v1 instead.

    You just stomped Chaithh after the thief downed him in a team fight.

    That screenshot literally means nothing. Record a video of yourself 1v1ing him.

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well.

    Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. )

    Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf.

    Try it in a 1v1 instead.

    You just stomped Chaithh after the thief downed him in a team fight.

    That screenshot literally means nothing. Record a video of yourself 1v1ing him.

    No, I killed him when he over extended in a team fight. Did I 1v1? No, I used the tactical situation to my advantage and trashed him when he was vulnerable. That's an aspect of skilled play.

    There's an NPC in HoTM that paraphrases Tsun Tsu. The actual quote, (Jame Clavell's translation, ) is: "He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight."

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • @Axl.8924 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @kodesh.2851 said:
    Keep complaining it won't matter. They can nerf things all the hell and it won't matter. There are 7 trait lines. I will find the cheese, move it where you will.

    The same could be said for any class except rev. Poor rev

    At least you got renegade for pve.

    Herald might be in a bad place, because heck having 1 niche role is ridiculous.

    Not sure why renegade is considered bad in pvp, i would need a massive explanation as to the issues with renegade.

    It’s simple. Rev is outperformed by other classes. That’s it. You’re correct it’s not bad but it cannot outperform any class. So it’s bad in the since that it doesn’t hold up. If all classes performed on the same level as rev it would be different but they don’t.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

    Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

    Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    Zerker did get a buff when the Gs GM trait is taken as you two zerker doing 50% more damage.
    Anet would have to revert phantasm changes across all game modes and that is highly unlikely. So you’re best bet is to add a limit of the number of phantasm. 3 is a solid number as it accounts for having one set be two handed and the other a main and off hand.
    Swordsman not as strong as made out because it’s highly telegraphed. Disenchanter bounces and strips boons so it’s strong. How people are getting hit with defender is confusing to be but whatever. Staff phantasms are fine as they are.

    So in short, you need to come up with a better idea than reverting because it’s not going to happen. The PvE outcry would be more than Anet would want to put up with and they’ve stated they can split functions. When you want to have a logical conversation about it let me know.

    Anet is about to split skills for wvw/ pvp and pve, all i said is ofc only meant for pvp/wvw, and no you pls don't reduce the zerker dmg because of a new stupid trait gives you now 2 zerker. And the trait says 2 zerker but they do 50% less dmg each so the over all dmg from both is the same like one zerker without that trait (not included that 2 zerker have a better chance to crit than only one ofc). The double zerker trait is just stupid because it leads to more screen clutter and gives to much access to clones. Telegraphed skills don't help when you have to take care of 6 (with your proposal) or even more illusions up and the player itself. In conquest when you are maybe even in a teamfight with more than one opponent it gets even worse, you need to be a robot to take care of everyhting that happens on screen with only one mesmer in teamfight and "only" 6 Illusions up. As said i play mesmer as third most played class myself often enough and i can understand that it is annoying to play against the phantasm spam builds and can understand that ppl get hit by phantasm skills no matter how telegraphed they maybe are.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2018

    @Egorum.9506 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    I also have a left hand issue/condition thats being treated daily/having surgery in june to help fix my left hand random spasm during match ups this shouldn't be an excuse or a scapegoat as to why you'll be in "silver".

    You can beat anything with any random troll build in silver and bronze it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... take it from someone who started silver 3 season ago and has been in plat2 for the last 3 seasons. It's a different ball game my friend and it's not the same as unrank.

    It's not an excuse or scapegoat. I use both a razer tartarus ( for ergonomics) and a naga gaming mouse to make up most of the speed.

    As I pointed out in another post. I have beaten at least one former ESL player I met in unranked. So, yes I do have a certain skill level. Unranked is an interesting grab bag and recent matches have been seemed to be against plat rated players as often as not.

    A direct quote from your post: "it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... " As I understand it, You're saying that only a Mesmer can counter a Mesmer, because she understands the class and the mechanics.

    If that is the case then the way to deal with Mesmer is to gain "a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting." (sic)

    As I said, this is a learn to play issue.

    Learn to play issue isn't the "issue" at hand LIKE i said the amount of clones being dropped during a fight and the UP time they have is the issue 1 being a complete cluster kitten, and 2 giving the class enough sustain with f4 /f5 or easy burst combo with hardly any skills needed. However if you want to go back and forth with everyone about how it's a "learn to play issue" then feel free to do so because it won't get you anywhere at all when your clueless to what making "OP" and "broken" with enough training wheels to make them easy to play compared to before where it took a bit more effort and knowledge of the class.

    btw "beating' an ESL player means absolutely nada and Which i already DOUBT you really did.....If your struggling to climb out of silver after more then a season.

    Mesmer was redesigned expressly to break non shattering "passive" playstyles. This necessitates more clones. By happy coincidence, it also finally makes Mesmer a little bit confusing to play against. This has been a dream for years.

    There would be essentially 3 possibilities for reducing clones: cripple Mesmer utterly, revert the entire last redesign or greatly buff the clones. The last option would more or less create a GW2 Ritualist with mobile spirits.

    With respect to "hardly any skill needed." I suggest you give it a try.

    That's me, at the 3v3 mid fight, standing over the body of the former esl play whom I have just stomped. Notice my pre-HoT PU Mesmer build. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith

    So as an off meta silver player you beat a top 50 engineer and you think the class is not overtuned? That makes sense.

    Here's a video of me playing mesmer. I have less than 50h played on the class over the last 5 years, I'm not even using the meta build man.

    You know what? Wow... I see "Ruthless Legend" Titles in that video, yet the players passively ignore a gs shatter Mesmer playing in a fashion that very few would.
    That doesn't look right to me. I will be emailing ANET on the subject.

    This video looks like it might have been staged.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Kahyos.1437Kahyos.1437 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @Meteor.3720 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well.

    Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. )

    Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf.

    I love reading your posts. They're always so amusing.
    Thanks for the laugh.

    Keep up the strong silver mentality!

    PS If you think dealing with mirage/ chrono is simply a "learn to play issue", then you are in fact the one who needs to learn to play and realise what your class is capable of in the hands of semi-competent players.

    Bring on the mesmer nerfs.

    I can deal with Mirages and chronos reasonably well, on a core build. So, yes, I do think it's a learn to play issue.

    You were up against players of lower skill than you. You said yourself you have a good grasp of the game, and yet you are on silver with a non-meta build. Try using mirage and chrono, you might reach gold. I hope that helps you understand how balance (or the lack of it) works.

  • @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

    Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

    Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    Zerker did get a buff when the Gs GM trait is taken as you two zerker doing 50% more damage.
    Anet would have to revert phantasm changes across all game modes and that is highly unlikely. So you’re best bet is to add a limit of the number of phantasm. 3 is a solid number as it accounts for having one set be two handed and the other a main and off hand.
    Swordsman not as strong as made out because it’s highly telegraphed. Disenchanter bounces and strips boons so it’s strong. How people are getting hit with defender is confusing to be but whatever. Staff phantasms are fine as they are.

    So in short, you need to come up with a better idea than reverting because it’s not going to happen. The PvE outcry would be more than Anet would want to put up with and they’ve stated they can split functions. When you want to have a logical conversation about it let me know.

    Anet is about to split skills for wvw/ pvp and pve, all i said is ofc only meant for pvp/wvw, and no you pls don't reduce the zerker dmg because of a new stupid trait gives you now 2 zerker. And the trait says 2 zerker but they do 50% less dmg each so the over all dmg from both is the same like one zerker without that trait (not included that 2 zerker have a better chance to crit than only one ofc). The double zerker trait is just stupid because it leads to more screen clutter and gives to much access to clones. Telegraphed skills don't help when you have to take care of 6 (with your proposal) or even more illusions up and the player itself. In conquest when you are maybe even in a teamfight with more than one opponent it gets even worse, you need to be a robot to take care of everyhting that happens on screen with only one mesmer in teamfight and "only" 6 Illusions up. As said i play mesmer as third most played class myself often enough and i can understand that it is annoying to play against the phantasm spam builds and can understand that ppl get hit by phantasm skills no matter how telegraphed they maybe are.

    I think you’re getting confused by what they’re actually splitting vs what you want split. You want the FUNCTION of it split. They can’t do that. Confusion is the most obvious thing presently. It still has a small passive tick in PvP because they can’t have it only tick on skill use in PvP and have passive tick in PvE. Therefore they can’t have a the old illusion set up and maintain the new in PvE. It’s a coding issue. Which means you have to come up with an idea that fits into the new skill.

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well.

    Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. )

    Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf.

    Ok, so you can understand, try playing mirage and see where that gets you. Next, study revenant, ele, or any other class, and see if you can achieve the same results. It seems you are misunderstanding how a potential of a class or build works. If I play mirage or chrono, given a set amount of time and practice, I will most likely perform MUCH better when compared to spending the same (if not more) amount of time on other classes. That's the thing, a player doesn't have to be as skilled as me to beat me if they are using mirage, they can spam bursts and disengage for cooldowns. It is much the same way why people hate scourges.

    Ah, but that's just the point. I don't agree that Mirage or Chrono is anywhere near as easy to play as say... sb or Scourge. Yes, Mirage is capable of really ripping it up... but it takes considerable skill and practice, more than for other classes.

    Mesmerizing Girl

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