Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged] - Page 6 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

13468929

Comments

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2018

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well.

    Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. )

    Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf.

    Try it in a 1v1 instead.

    You just stomped Chaithh after the thief downed him in a team fight.

    That screenshot literally means nothing. Record a video of yourself 1v1ing him.

    No, I killed him when he over extended in a team fight. Did I 1v1? No, I used the tactical situation to my advantage and trashed him when he was vulnerable. That's an aspect of skilled play.

    There's an NPC in HoTM that paraphrases Tsun Tsu. The actual quote, (Jame Clavell's translation, ) is: "He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight."

    I hope you realize you're a perfect example of Dunning-Kruger Effect.

    • "In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is."
    • "The cognitive bias of illusory superiority derives from the metacognitive inability of low-ability persons to recognize their own ineptitude; without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their actual competence or incompetence."

    This is proven simply because you are in SILVER yet mistaken believe your skill is higher than it really is. The game obviously perceives you as a bad player. Hence, by you saying you "trashed him when he was vulnerable... an aspect of skilled play." is a flat out lie. Especially when the screenshot shows Jhene Aiko as the one who downed Chaith, and you as the one who cleaved his downed body/stomped him.

    The thief and I worked together. As a skilled team. That screen shot shows the final instant. The fact that I cleaved/stomped doesn't changed the fact that I brought him to the state to be downed to begin with.

    Okay, first off, the fact that it took TWO of you to down Chaith is proof enough.

    Second, words mean nothing and unless you provide video evidence of you "beating" him, no one will believe you and/or take you seriously.

    Again, you're a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

    As you can easily observe, this was the first team fight, at mid. Of course there were multiple players involved on both sides. Of course, I exercised tactical judgement and jumped on that engineer when I knew I could take him out. That's known as "skill."

    Nope, it doesn't take much skill to to gang up on a guy and spam bursts at him from all directions. That's just called having a good opportunity, which most players with a good game sense will do. Skill is where you outplayed him in a fair fight.

    There was no gang up. It was a mid fight, the first of the game. I out played him, as evidenced by the fact that he wound up dead. If anything, the match was stacked against me, the other team had higher rated players.

    ~ But to return to the point of the discussion of that photo ~ I do in fact have credible skills and am qualified to comment. That was the entire point of the photo discussion.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @Kahyos.1437 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well.

    Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. )

    Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf.

    Ok, so you can understand, try playing mirage and see where that gets you. Next, study revenant, ele, or any other class, and see if you can achieve the same results. It seems you are misunderstanding how a potential of a class or build works. If I play mirage or chrono, given a set amount of time and practice, I will most likely perform MUCH better when compared to spending the same (if not more) amount of time on other classes. That's the thing, a player doesn't have to be as skilled as me to beat me if they are using mirage, they can spam bursts and disengage for cooldowns. It is much the same way why people hate scourges.

    Ah, but that's just the point. I don't agree that Mirage or Chrono is anywhere near as easy to play as say... sb or Scourge. Yes, Mirage is capable of really ripping it up... but it takes considerable skill and practice, more than for other classes.

    "Difficulty" of a certain class/specialization means nothing once you get to platinum or higher. Again, these artificial barriers only take effect in the extremely low divisions such as gold, silver, and bronze.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Anet is about to split skills for wvw/ pvp and pve, all i said is ofc only meant for pvp/wvw, and no you pls don't reduce the zerker dmg because of a new stupid trait gives you now 2 zerker. And the trait says 2 zerker but they do 50% less dmg each so the over all dmg from both is the same like one zerker without that trait (not included that 2 zerker have a better chance to crit than only one ofc). The double zerker trait is just stupid because it leads to more screen clutter and gives to much access to clones. Telegraphed skills don't help when you have to take care of 6 (with your proposal) or even more illusions up and the player itself. In conquest when you are maybe even in a teamfight with more than one opponent it gets even worse, you need to be a robot to take care of everyhting that happens on screen with only one mesmer in teamfight and "only" 6 Illusions up. As said i play mesmer as third most played class myself often enough and i can understand that it is annoying to play against the phantasm spam builds and can understand that ppl get hit by phantasm skills no matter how telegraphed they maybe are.

    You would be alot smarter if you would read what i wrote about each phantasms but why would you , Dunning-Kruger Effect kicks in and you know about mesmer more than anyone !
    In teamfight amount of cc/cleave insane amount of such things, mesmer gotta pray for his phantasms wont die instant,honestly . That diviner mesmer under focus of 2 people dying instant , if you dont want to think on your own ,no worries, im here to help ! Put target on mesmer and send him on respawn in a seconds ;)

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

    Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

    Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    Zerker did get a buff when the Gs GM trait is taken as you two zerker doing 50% more damage.
    Anet would have to revert phantasm changes across all game modes and that is highly unlikely. So you’re best bet is to add a limit of the number of phantasm. 3 is a solid number as it accounts for having one set be two handed and the other a main and off hand.
    Swordsman not as strong as made out because it’s highly telegraphed. Disenchanter bounces and strips boons so it’s strong. How people are getting hit with defender is confusing to be but whatever. Staff phantasms are fine as they are.

    So in short, you need to come up with a better idea than reverting because it’s not going to happen. The PvE outcry would be more than Anet would want to put up with and they’ve stated they can split functions. When you want to have a logical conversation about it let me know.

    Anet is about to split skills for wvw/ pvp and pve, all i said is ofc only meant for pvp/wvw, and no you pls don't reduce the zerker dmg because of a new stupid trait gives you now 2 zerker. And the trait says 2 zerker but they do 50% less dmg each so the over all dmg from both is the same like one zerker without that trait (not included that 2 zerker have a better chance to crit than only one ofc). The double zerker trait is just stupid because it leads to more screen clutter and gives to much access to clones. Telegraphed skills don't help when you have to take care of 6 (with your proposal) or even more illusions up and the player itself. In conquest when you are maybe even in a teamfight with more than one opponent it gets even worse, you need to be a robot to take care of everyhting that happens on screen with only one mesmer in teamfight and "only" 6 Illusions up. As said i play mesmer as third most played class myself often enough and i can understand that it is annoying to play against the phantasm spam builds and can understand that ppl get hit by phantasm skills no matter how telegraphed they maybe are.

    I think you’re getting confused by what they’re actually splitting vs what you want split. You want the FUNCTION of it split. They can’t do that. Confusion is the most obvious thing presently. It still has a small passive tick in PvP because they can’t have it only tick on skill use in PvP and have passive tick in PvE. Therefore they can’t have a the old illusion set up and maintain the new in PvE. It’s a coding issue. Which means you have to come up with an idea that fits into the new skill.

    It is not possible to make the new phantasm rule not broken in any pvp/wvw scenario i can imagine atm. Then they should revert the rule back in pve too (except that phantasm still turn into clones after one attack) and give some compensation in pve for that, like higher dmg or something that is possible to split. Not that i think a pure npc build leads in the players more or less only autoattack through the content during 3 perma phantams do the job need a replacement but ofc mesmer should be playable in pve nonetheless.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    You are beyond salvation ,not even joking ...You are from NA right ? I wouldnt be surprised at all given how much hate i get just by simply showing your absurd claims that clearly show how delusional you are about your so called 'understanding the class' .

    No i am not NA and sry but the way you argue here make you just look like a player being afraid that he need to switch to another op and ez class again when mesmer gets the deserved nerfs. I will not talk any further with you, because i am sure that will never leads anywhere sensefull anyway. Have a nice day.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. )

    I don't have a horse in this race either way but 2v1ing a medium armor class with a mesmer and a thief is not skill, its opportunism. Doing something not-horribly does not mean you are skillful. In most cases, merely knowing what your buttons do will allow you to win an outnumbered match. I will shelve the questions about why this was screenshot worthy out of common decency, but I wanted to mention that.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

    Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

    Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    Zerker did get a buff when the Gs GM trait is taken as you two zerker doing 50% more damage.
    Anet would have to revert phantasm changes across all game modes and that is highly unlikely. So you’re best bet is to add a limit of the number of phantasm. 3 is a solid number as it accounts for having one set be two handed and the other a main and off hand.
    Swordsman not as strong as made out because it’s highly telegraphed. Disenchanter bounces and strips boons so it’s strong. How people are getting hit with defender is confusing to be but whatever. Staff phantasms are fine as they are.

    So in short, you need to come up with a better idea than reverting because it’s not going to happen. The PvE outcry would be more than Anet would want to put up with and they’ve stated they can split functions. When you want to have a logical conversation about it let me know.

    Anet is about to split skills for wvw/ pvp and pve, all i said is ofc only meant for pvp/wvw, and no you pls don't reduce the zerker dmg because of a new stupid trait gives you now 2 zerker. And the trait says 2 zerker but they do 50% less dmg each so the over all dmg from both is the same like one zerker without that trait (not included that 2 zerker have a better chance to crit than only one ofc). The double zerker trait is just stupid because it leads to more screen clutter and gives to much access to clones. Telegraphed skills don't help when you have to take care of 6 (with your proposal) or even more illusions up and the player itself. In conquest when you are maybe even in a teamfight with more than one opponent it gets even worse, you need to be a robot to take care of everyhting that happens on screen with only one mesmer in teamfight and "only" 6 Illusions up. As said i play mesmer as third most played class myself often enough and i can understand that it is annoying to play against the phantasm spam builds and can understand that ppl get hit by phantasm skills no matter how telegraphed they maybe are.

    I think you’re getting confused by what they’re actually splitting vs what you want split. You want the FUNCTION of it split. They can’t do that. Confusion is the most obvious thing presently. It still has a small passive tick in PvP because they can’t have it only tick on skill use in PvP and have passive tick in PvE. Therefore they can’t have a the old illusion set up and maintain the new in PvE. It’s a coding issue. Which means you have to come up with an idea that fits into the new skill.

    It is not possible to make the new phantasm rule not broken in any pvp/wvw scenario i can imagine atm. Then they should revert the rule back in pve too (except that phantasm still turn into clones after one attack) and give some compensation in pve for that, like higher dmg or something that is possible to split. Not that i think a pure npc build leads in the players more or less only autattack through the content during 3 perma phantams do the job need a replacement but ofc mesmer should be playable in pve nonetheless.

    You apparently have a hard time understanding this so I’ll explain it once more. They cannot have split functions. Period end of story. This means they can’t have phantasms turn to clones in PvE and not PvP. This means that they go back to the old mechanic, not going to happen, or leave it as is.
    Now, I offered a suggestion that would help the issue. I didn’t say fix but help. Being limited to three phantasms will reduce screen clutter compared to what we currently have. If you have possible solutions then I’d love to hear them. But saying they need to split the function is ridiculous and not possible.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    @Topic:

    All they have to do is tone down the damage the phantasms themselves can do, and potentially cap the phantasms as well. We can deal with GS shatter later or not at all, I don't care about it at this point.

    I genuinely don't understand how, the moment Mesmer receives any kind of nerf or balance attempt to try to temper how it performs, they immediately receive another mechanic that puts them right back to overwhelming again.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    @Topic:

    All they have to do is tone down the damage the phantasms themselves can do, and potentially cap the phantasms as well.

    I genuinely don't understand how, the moment Mesmer receives any kind of nerf or balance attempt to try to temper how it performs, they immediately receive another mechanic that puts them right back to overwhelming again.

    My suggestion has been to start with a 10-15% nerf to the main 4 phantasms base damage and cap phantasms at three. So total you could three clones and three phantasms. That reduces visual clutter and AoE can easily clear clones so if played right you’d only be facing three phantasms with highly telegraphed attacks.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

    Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms!
    Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try...

    Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm slightly. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else.

    Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    Zerker did get a buff when the Gs GM trait is taken as you two zerker doing 50% more damage.
    Anet would have to revert phantasm changes across all game modes and that is highly unlikely. So you’re best bet is to add a limit of the number of phantasm. 3 is a solid number as it accounts for having one set be two handed and the other a main and off hand.
    Swordsman not as strong as made out because it’s highly telegraphed. Disenchanter bounces and strips boons so it’s strong. How people are getting hit with defender is confusing to be but whatever. Staff phantasms are fine as they are.

    So in short, you need to come up with a better idea than reverting because it’s not going to happen. The PvE outcry would be more than Anet would want to put up with and they’ve stated they can split functions. When you want to have a logical conversation about it let me know.

    Anet is about to split skills for wvw/ pvp and pve, all i said is ofc only meant for pvp/wvw, and no you pls don't reduce the zerker dmg because of a new stupid trait gives you now 2 zerker. And the trait says 2 zerker but they do 50% less dmg each so the over all dmg from both is the same like one zerker without that trait (not included that 2 zerker have a better chance to crit than only one ofc). The double zerker trait is just stupid because it leads to more screen clutter and gives to much access to clones. Telegraphed skills don't help when you have to take care of 6 (with your proposal) or even more illusions up and the player itself. In conquest when you are maybe even in a teamfight with more than one opponent it gets even worse, you need to be a robot to take care of everyhting that happens on screen with only one mesmer in teamfight and "only" 6 Illusions up. As said i play mesmer as third most played class myself often enough and i can understand that it is annoying to play against the phantasm spam builds and can understand that ppl get hit by phantasm skills no matter how telegraphed they maybe are.

    I think you’re getting confused by what they’re actually splitting vs what you want split. You want the FUNCTION of it split. They can’t do that. Confusion is the most obvious thing presently. It still has a small passive tick in PvP because they can’t have it only tick on skill use in PvP and have passive tick in PvE. Therefore they can’t have a the old illusion set up and maintain the new in PvE. It’s a coding issue. Which means you have to come up with an idea that fits into the new skill.

    It is not possible to make the new phantasm rule not broken in any pvp/wvw scenario i can imagine atm. Then they should revert the rule back in pve too (except that phantasm still turn into clones after one attack) and give some compensation in pve for that, like higher dmg or something that is possible to split. Not that i think a pure npc build leads in the players more or less only autattack through the content during 3 perma phantams do the job need a replacement but ofc mesmer should be playable in pve nonetheless.

    You apparently have a hard time understanding this so I’ll explain it once more. They cannot have split functions. Period end of story. This means they can’t have phantasms turn to clones in PvE and not PvP. This means that they go back to the old mechanic, not going to happen, or leave it as is.
    Now, I offered a suggestion that would help the issue. I didn’t say fix but help. Being limited to three phantasms will reduce screen clutter compared to what we currently have. If you have possible solutions then I’d love to hear them. But saying they need to split the function is ridiculous and not possible.

    You did't read correct, i said they should revert the phantasm rule in all gamemode in the same way then. Means phantasm count into the max of 3 illusions and can be shattered even as phantaams, but they still turn into clones after one attack. This they do in ALL gamemodes. Anet wanted to stop player from deciding between let phantasms live or shatter, this decicion is deleted already by make phantams turn into clones after one attack. The other changes like phantasms do not count to clone limit anymore and do not get shattered were not needed in the first place. Phantams mes will be dead than also in pve for sure, but sry even in pve the player should play the content and not the AI. When mesmer don't have any viable dmg builds in pve anymore anet can split some skils like give shatters or phantasm attacks more dmg. This (dmg-) split is possible because done several times already.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2018

    @bravan.3876 said:

    No i am not NA and sry but the way you argue here make you just look like a player being afraid that he need to switch to another op and ez class again when mesmer gets the deserved nerfs. I will not talk any further with you, because i am sure that will never leads anywhere sensefull anyway. Have a nice day.

    None of your post had a small bit of sense ever.
    More like a player that just having fun ,laugh at all your statements . Especially fun one was that ONLY good mesmers insisted on playing gs burst builds...Executing same combo all over again is so hard and not boring at all..oh wait...

    i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    Thats just came from a person that pretend to understand class ? Hell yes!
    Kindy ask @Jace al Thor.6745 he is alrdy explaining pretty well . He said exaply what i did about phantasms and reverting phantasms back(i didnt make it directly,thats just been obvious they wont do it) but i guess we are both have no clue about mesmer.

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    @Topic:

    All they have to do is tone down the damage the phantasms themselves can do, and potentially cap the phantasms as well.

    I genuinely don't understand how, the moment Mesmer receives any kind of nerf or balance attempt to try to temper how it performs, they immediately receive another mechanic that puts them right back to overwhelming again.

    My suggestion has been to start with a 10-15% nerf to the main 4 phantasms base damage and cap phantasms at three. So total you could three clones and three phantasms. That reduces visual clutter and AoE can easily clear clones so if played right you’d only be facing three phantasms with highly telegraphed attacks.

    I would wait for nerf and see whats gonna happen after but I agree that would fine to nerf some phantasms damage(phantasmal force should give less damage so you wouldnt need to trait it) . If anet made frequent patches would be 1 million times easier to balance all things

  • @Odik.4587 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    No i am not NA and sry but the way you argue here make you just look like a player being afraid that he need to switch to another op and ez class again when mesmer gets the deserved nerfs. I will not talk any further with you, because i am sure that will never leads anywhere sensefull anyway. Have a nice day.

    None of your post had a small bit of sense ever.
    More like a player that just having fun ,laugh at all your statements . Especially fun one was that ONLY good mesmers insisted on playing gs burst builds...Executing same combo all over again is so hard and not boring at all..oh wait...

    i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    Thats just came from a person that pretend to understand class ? Hell yes!
    Kindy ask @Jace al Thor.6745 he is alrdy explaining pretty well . He said exaply what i did about phantasms and reverting phantasms back(i didnt make it directly,thats just been obvious they wont do it) but i guess we are both have no clue about mesmer.

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    @Topic:

    All they have to do is tone down the damage the phantasms themselves can do, and potentially cap the phantasms as well.

    I genuinely don't understand how, the moment Mesmer receives any kind of nerf or balance attempt to try to temper how it performs, they immediately receive another mechanic that puts them right back to overwhelming again.

    My suggestion has been to start with a 10-15% nerf to the main 4 phantasms base damage and cap phantasms at three. So total you could three clones and three phantasms. That reduces visual clutter and AoE can easily clear clones so if played right you’d only be facing three phantasms with highly telegraphed attacks.

    I would wait for nerf and see whats gonna happen after but I agree that would fine to nerf some phantasms damage(phantasmal force should give less damage so you wouldnt need to trait it) . If anet made frequent patches would be 1 million times easier to balance all things

    I don’t feel that the upcoming balance patch is going o change the amount of complaints about phantasm spam. In fact I think they’ll increase as there won’t be as many passive procs happening. I would implement the 3 and 3 change first before doing any nerfs myself but I’m not in charge.

    More smaller, frequent patches would be better if they were small changes in skills. The problem is Anet likes to take hammers to everything and that’s not acceptable.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:

    No i am not NA and sry but the way you argue here make you just look like a player being afraid that he need to switch to another op and ez class again when mesmer gets the deserved nerfs. I will not talk any further with you, because i am sure that will never leads anywhere sensefull anyway. Have a nice day.

    None of your post had a small bit of sense ever.
    More like a player that just having fun ,laugh at all your statements . Especially fun one was that ONLY good mesmers insisted on playing gs burst builds...Executing same combo all over again is so hard and not boring at all..oh wait...

    i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore.

    Thats just came from a person that pretend to understand class ? Hell yes!
    Kindy ask @Jace al Thor.6745 he is alrdy explaining pretty well . He said exaply what i did about phantasms and reverting phantasms back(i didnt make it directly,thats just been obvious they wont do it) but i guess we are both have no clue about mesmer.

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:
    @Topic:

    All they have to do is tone down the damage the phantasms themselves can do, and potentially cap the phantasms as well.

    I genuinely don't understand how, the moment Mesmer receives any kind of nerf or balance attempt to try to temper how it performs, they immediately receive another mechanic that puts them right back to overwhelming again.

    My suggestion has been to start with a 10-15% nerf to the main 4 phantasms base damage and cap phantasms at three. So total you could three clones and three phantasms. That reduces visual clutter and AoE can easily clear clones so if played right you’d only be facing three phantasms with highly telegraphed attacks.

    I would wait for nerf and see whats gonna happen after but I agree that would fine to nerf some phantasms damage(phantasmal force should give less damage so you wouldnt need to trait it) . If anet made frequent patches would be 1 million times easier to balance all things

    I don’t feel that the upcoming balance patch is going o change the amount of complaints about phantasm spam. In fact I think they’ll increase as there won’t be as many passive procs happening. I would implement the 3 and 3 change first before doing any nerfs myself but I’m not in charge.

    More smaller, frequent patches would be better if they were small changes in skills. The problem is Anet likes to take hammers to everything and that’s not acceptable.

    They need tone down might generation on ALL classes so pushing damage to its limit would be harder . We all know how anet deal with buff/nerfs. ;)

  • Egorum.9506Egorum.9506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Pretty sure the dude is trolling lol, but feed away!

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't nerf traits, nerf each variants F abilities. Tee-hee

    Twitch | YouTube

    Make DH major trait "heavy light" baseline & replace it with a better trait

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2018

    @michelada.2947 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    The Mesmer redesign was expressly to force shattering. That requires that we have clones. So, ANET cannot reduce clones without either completely reverting the most recent redesign or utterly crippling Mesmer.

    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    oh yeah let me focus that mesmer, block block block block, oh i can atack him now!!!, block block block block, 3 clones + 1 phantasm that hit's for 10k i'm death GG, against mirage is not that different.

    You need to dodge the shatter or use block/invulnerability. It has a very long tell , ( clones running at you. ) I'd venture it's even longer than the deadeye "Death's Judgement" tell in some instances.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2018

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Ohhhh. I've always wondered why your perceptions and thoughts never really made much sense. Seeing as how you're a silver player, I can now see why you say the things you do.

    Despite your physical limitations, you are a silver player. You obviously don't have any experience fighting against good players, hence why it always sounds like you're coming from a place of extreme inexperience.

    To put it simply, gold players are below average. Silver and bronze consist of players who really don't know what they're doing. It's in these divisions which you'll find people double capping points, 3 manning a beast, and/or generally have poor mechanics. Not trying to be mean, but you being able to beat a Mirage/Chrono in SILVER division as a core mesmer means absolutely nothing. Good players in plat 2 or higher can completely (and easily) destroy multiple players at the same time from the lower divisions. Even more so as a Mirage/Chronomancer.

    This is why Anet should display rank badges next to players' forum names. This way it would be a lot easier to tell who to take seriously and who to not.

    Because rank is forum validity?
    Most of the good players stopped ranked a few seasons ago and mostly stick to unranked and AT's... It's just the scraplings that are left that finally have a chance to be on the leader board that are still playing in that cesspool.... The desperate, if you will.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Ohhhh. I've always wondered why your perceptions and thoughts never really made much sense. Seeing as how you're a silver player, I can now see why you say the things you do.

    Despite your physical limitations, you are a silver player. You obviously don't have any experience fighting against good players, hence why it always sounds like you're coming from a place of extreme inexperience.

    To put it simply, gold players are below average. Silver and bronze consist of players who really don't know what they're doing. It's in these divisions which you'll find people double capping points, 3 manning a beast, and/or generally have poor mechanics. Not trying to be mean, but you being able to beat a Mirage/Chrono in SILVER division as a core mesmer means absolutely nothing. Good players in plat 2 or higher can completely (and easily) destroy multiple players at the same time from the lower divisions. Even more so as a Mirage/Chronomancer.

    This is why Anet should display rank badges next to players' forum names. This way it would be a lot easier to tell who to take seriously and who to not.

    Because rank is forum validity?
    Most of the good players stopped ranked a few seasons ago and mostly stick to unranked and AT's... It's just the scraplings that are left that finally have a chance to be on the leader board that are still playing in that cesspool.... The desperate, if you will.

    100% agree that rank is idiotic. Not saying that we shouldn’t take what is being with s grain of salt though.

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    The Mesmer redesign was expressly to force shattering. That requires that we have clones. So, ANET cannot reduce clones without either completely reverting the most recent redesign or utterly crippling Mesmer.

    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Want to know what's a l2p issue? Playing something that isn't a Mesmer. Go try it out and let us know how it feels.

    I played soul beast for a while the other day. Once I got used to merging it was fun to play and I don’t see why it isn’t used more. Well I do, Druid’s tanking ability is hard to beat.
    Oh and I played deadeye for a few matches and got bored of it pretty quick, I prefer d/p. Can’t forget scourge either. Scourge is... well we all know it’s ridiculous at the moment. The ability to lay AoE like it does in a conquest game mode is just silly.

    That’s about it though. I dislike guard, war, rev, engi and ele so don’t get on them much. Overall I feel like boons are out of control across all classes, expertise and concentration need removed from the game, conditions need an overhaul to be high intensity/low duration low intensity/high duration. Confounding suggestions needs either reworked or replaced with a different trait to eliminate the synergy between it, mental anguish, and MoD. Elusive Mind needs either an icd or the stun break removed and replaced with something else.
    Umm I feel that warrior is pigeoned holed into adrenal health and healing Signet which has too much synergy and the other heals need work. Also Sand Savant needs to be reworked to provide the Scourge with a benefit like stab rather than making shades huge.

    I could go on if you’d like.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sorry if it's been done before.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Ohhhh. I've always wondered why your perceptions and thoughts never really made much sense. Seeing as how you're a silver player, I can now see why you say the things you do.

    Despite your physical limitations, you are a silver player. You obviously don't have any experience fighting against good players, hence why it always sounds like you're coming from a place of extreme inexperience.

    To put it simply, gold players are below average. Silver and bronze consist of players who really don't know what they're doing. It's in these divisions which you'll find people double capping points, 3 manning a beast, and/or generally have poor mechanics. Not trying to be mean, but you being able to beat a Mirage/Chrono in SILVER division as a core mesmer means absolutely nothing. Good players in plat 2 or higher can completely (and easily) destroy multiple players at the same time from the lower divisions. Even more so as a Mirage/Chronomancer.

    This is why Anet should display rank badges next to players' forum names. This way it would be a lot easier to tell who to take seriously and who to not.

    Because rank is forum validity?
    Most of the good players stopped ranked a few seasons ago and mostly stick to unranked and AT's... It's just the scraplings that are left that finally have a chance to be on the leader board that are still playing in that cesspool.... The desperate, if you will.

    100% agree that rank is idiotic. Not saying that we shouldn’t take what is being with s grain of salt though.

    Using rank as forum validity is what urks me... Could always use playtime/hours played, although it's quite discomforting when you look at 9 thousand hours or more.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • @michelada.2947 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    The Mesmer redesign was expressly to force shattering. That requires that we have clones. So, ANET cannot reduce clones without either completely reverting the most recent redesign or utterly crippling Mesmer.

    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    oh yeah let me focus that mesmer, block block block block, oh i can atack him now!!!, block block block block, 3 clones + 1 phantasm that hit's for 10k i'm death GG, against mirage is not that different.

    that is incorrect.
    the mesmer is supposed to have at least 2 phantasms if he blocked twice.

  • FyzE.3472FyzE.3472 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2018

    @Blackdagger.9670 said:
    I've said this countless times, here we are nothing has changed.; Mesmer has been and currently is the most overpowered and favoured class of all times in gw2 history.
    check season eras before PoF, and HoT era, mesmer has always dominated pvp, in every shape. Some players really started to believe that Chief pvp designer mains a mesmer, thats why this profession is always favoured by them. In fact, its no joke anymore. Things are getting troubling about mesmer.

    No Anet, your re-design of mesmer is just another fail, I am sorry.
    No Anet, mesmer is far away from being balanced.

    Actually, How do you effort losing good players of pvp community every day? I mean lots of experienced old players quited the game and long gone. They are not even planning to come back any soon, (Recently had a conversation with Kervv from old [vM] he told me, show me one good reason for us to come back to this game.. and I couldn't reply... cuz he was so right)

    Remember how Jay Wilson destroyed Diablo franchise? Well Anet, you had to take lessons from that failure. Mentioning about that game on purpose, because if any player here has ever played Diablo III, would surely understand my reference. There are close similarities with skill dynamics, traits with gw2. Not saying or claiming anything, just emphasizing when you are inspired from some other game and creating your own RPG, you also need to consider their failures. In this case, please remember How Blizzard took an action and replaced Jay Wilson after what he had done to that game and look how they managed to keep their player base still, after all those years. Long story short, YOU NEED TO TAKE action if there are some kind of replacements needed in PvP designing department. Maybe hire fresh blood? I think, it is about time.

    Also because of D3 failure, a game called Path of Exile appeared and became even more popular than D3. Also F2P.

  • Blackdagger.9670Blackdagger.9670 Member ✭✭✭

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    Also because of D3 failure, a game called Path of Exile appeared and became even more popular than D3. Also F2P.

    Exactly, that's a decent game. My point is, Even Diablo III franchise has pulled itself together after some necessarry replacements on departments. Look at it now, it's a totally different game when compared to it's first release.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blackdagger.9670 said:

    @FyzE.3472 said:

    Also because of D3 failure, a game called Path of Exile appeared and became even more popular than D3. Also F2P.

    Exactly, that's a decent game. My point is, Even Diablo III franchise has pulled itself together after some necessarry replacements on departments. Look at it now, it's a totally different game when compared to it's first release.

    It’s still boring to play once you realise that torment pretty much just increases the damage everything does to you while increasing their health. One of the reasons D2 was interesting on hell mode was that enemies had resistances as well as random maps but even that got boring once you got your gear sorted.

    Sure you can start a new character every ladder season and play the same game again but at that point I might as well start playing something like ME1-3 trying to be the galaxys biggest kitten or something you’ve not done in those games, maybe be a decent human being in the games, would be a new experience to many on these forums, not aimed at you btw.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2018

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Jace al Thor.6745 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh!

    If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you.

    This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had.

    Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season.

    For the rest; Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Ohhhh. I've always wondered why your perceptions and thoughts never really made much sense. Seeing as how you're a silver player, I can now see why you say the things you do.

    Despite your physical limitations, you are a silver player. You obviously don't have any experience fighting against good players, hence why it always sounds like you're coming from a place of extreme inexperience.

    To put it simply, gold players are below average. Silver and bronze consist of players who really don't know what they're doing. It's in these divisions which you'll find people double capping points, 3 manning a beast, and/or generally have poor mechanics. Not trying to be mean, but you being able to beat a Mirage/Chrono in SILVER division as a core mesmer means absolutely nothing. Good players in plat 2 or higher can completely (and easily) destroy multiple players at the same time from the lower divisions. Even more so as a Mirage/Chronomancer.

    This is why Anet should display rank badges next to players' forum names. This way it would be a lot easier to tell who to take seriously and who to not.

    Because rank is forum validity?
    Most of the good players stopped ranked a few seasons ago and mostly stick to unranked and AT's... It's just the scraplings that are left that finally have a chance to be on the leader board that are still playing in that cesspool.... The desperate, if you will.

    100% agree that rank is idiotic. Not saying that we shouldn’t take what is being with s grain of salt though.

    Using rank as forum validity is what urks me... Could always use playtime/hours played, although it's quite discomforting when you look at 9 thousand hours or more.

    If it makes you uncomfortable to look at 9k+ hours played, you had better put on a seat belt before you look at my account's /age.

    The 10 Commandments Of Conquest
    Abide by the commandments or God shalt deliver unto thee a packet of salt as often as thou did break them
    -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/38081/the-10-commandments-of-conquest#1

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2018

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    Go 22kills 1death as Sword/Shield Holosmith in unranked,

    TFW Ithilwen happened to be on the enemy team for that one death... NotLikeThis

    I happened to cause that one death.

    ~ But to return to the point of the discussion of that photo ~ I do in fact have credible skills and am qualified to comment. That was the entire point of the photo discussion.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    The Mesmer redesign was expressly to force shattering. That requires that we have clones. So, ANET cannot reduce clones without either completely reverting the most recent redesign or utterly crippling Mesmer.

    It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them.

    This is a learn to play issue.

    Want to know what's a l2p issue? Playing something that isn't a Mesmer. Go try it out and let us know how it feels.

    I have. In point of fact, I got my "Ascension" back piece on my alt account during the "Year of the Ascension." That required playing and winning on every class. I'm aware of the other classes, I just prefer Mesmer.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2018

    @BikeIsGone.8675 said:
    So after countless threads about how OP the GS burst on mesmer is (which btw has been basically the same since 2012 and was never considered "meta"), NOW its the AI spam......Not the perma 25 might, perma protection, the nigh-OPness that is chaotic persistence or the insane mobility from sword ambush.....but AI spam.
    Please try again with another thread. Once you have figured out what the actual issues with mesmer are.

    They are capable of performing all the other classes' abilities stacked into one build (holo damage and CC, thief disengage and teleport, warrior survivability, necro condis). I don't even know where to start nerfing that because any one of them is bad news bear, but all four?

    @zoopop.5630 said:
    Thank You Anet.

    Meta Is now 2-3 mesmer 1fb and 1scourge with a chance of a warrior or druid bunker.

    Honestly, PvP is the least enjoyable it's been in ages. Scourge meta was bad, but this mesmer meta has been worse. I didn't even know that was possible.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Faux Play.6104Faux Play.6104 Member ✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    I happened to cause that one death.

    Nobody is mislead into believing that. :neutral:

    Chaith =Achilles ithilwen=Paris. RIP.

  • Egorum.9506Egorum.9506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have no idea what i'm doing with mesmer, 300 games on one in the last 5 years. Apparently an afternoon spent playing one was enough to learn how to play it successfully though. Such a high skill floor!

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2018

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    I happened to cause that one death.

    Nobody is mislead into believing that. :neutral:

    The photo was taken after I hit with scepter 2 and 2 shatters. ( One of the shatters is now off cool down ) The Last distortion shatter secured the stomp. Yes, that was me.

    ~ But to return to the point of the discussion of that photo ~ I do in fact have credible skills and am qualified to comment. That was the entire point of the photo discussion.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Ithilwen.1529Ithilwen.1529 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Faux Play.6104 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Ithilwen.1529 said:
    I happened to cause that one death.

    Nobody is mislead into believing that. :neutral:

    Chaith =Achilles ithilwen=Paris. RIP.

    Smiles at the reference. "Sing, goddess, the anger of Peleus’ son Achilleus and its devastation..." Not many people read The Illiad these days.

    Mesmerizing Girl

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Your every single game full of rifle/ PP DE, rifle wars...Its either unranked or may be high plat of NA omegalul.
    Phantasmal force might stacking is a problem. Reduce it to 1 might stack ,keep 1% damage boost per might.
    Shave problematic phantasms damage (but keep in mind ,its dies after 1 hit or being interrupted and how stupid AI in this game)
    For pvp only ?-> rework defender to be defensive phantasm. Lower disenchanter damage on boonless target idc how much,dont touch cd.
    Shield 4 honestly,quick attack animation and high base damage(1900 lol) , with its 'counterplay' part being removed,summoning 2 phantasm is nothing new now.
    For all those who die to swordsman i advise to stop facetanking him and either dodge once or run straight w/o backpedalling.
    No idea how to fix chrono phantasm spam if not removing chronophantasma. (lost time trait is nowhere near to be grandmaster even)

    4 years of mesmer dominance? 4 years passed since HoT release? 25 seconds of being invulnerable and doing damage in same time, hm... clearly not exaggeration ,should be hired by Anet to fix balance problems (/sarcasm)

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ithilwen always seems to get roasted on there's forums :-/

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2018

    I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten that Mesmer phantasms were just changed in how they work as well as some getting attack updates. This means there’s some L2P in what you avoid and how to cheese the new phantasms into doing no damage but also there’s some balancing that needs to be done, like disenchanter damage coming down a bit.

    I very rarely see anyone LoS phantasms, my favourite is how people seem to ignore the phantasmal mage pottering up behind them, stretching its arms in front of it, lifting them above its head ready for the almighty fire wave to follow. It’s very well telegraphed and you have 2 opportunities to deny the skill, first by interrupting, blinding or LoS the phantasm and secondly by killing the phantasm. How many other classes and skills in the game can you say that there’s 2 opportunities to counter it?

    Yes Elusive Mind is too strong, yes I’ve said many times even just after PoF that it was overpowered and said the stun break should be removed. Yes disenchanter damage is a tad too high but it’s also only on boonless targets which isn’t exactly common, imo it should do damage per boon removed not insane damage to boonless. Yes Swordsman is too strong, it’s the strongest offhand phantasm there is. However don’t mistake a video taking a strong build into PvP against potatoes as proof it’s too good.

    Finally remember, when you point a finger at someone else, there’s 3 pointing back at you. Many here won’t even admit to the aspects on their own classes that are overpowered.

13468929
©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.