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Condition Builds 2.0

Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited October 20, 2019 in Ranger

I’ve seen like, maybe, a couple of ranger condi builds in wvw, so I’d like to make a few suggestions to provide this profession working, and competitive, builds outside of power builds.

SHORTBOW

TRAPS

  • Give back throwable traps (as a standard function, not trait related) to this profession. Only this profession. 900 range option.
  • Reevaluate the damage and cc on these so they are a lil more impactful.
  • Considering the Trapper Expertise Trait has a Boon buff... “Boons and conditions caused by your traps last 60% longer.”, perhaps we could add some Boons to actually buff... Yeah, I know the heal takes advantage of that buff, but there aren’t any other ones.

SAMPLE TRAP IDEAS

NEW ELITE TRAP

  • Causes Torment on foes. Gain Might on trigger. OR Daze foes. Refreshes all traps when triggered. OR Causes Blindness on trigger. Gain Fury when triggered. OPTION- Up to 900 range ground target.

DAGGERS STILL REALLY DO NEED LOVE PLEASE?!?!
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/568/daggers-need-redo-and-backstab

DRUID STAFF (Druid is really lagging behind overall btw. This entire spec could be so much cooler and fun with some reworks)

  • Staff 1- Add 1 burning condition to the 3rd attack tick. The low damage and low healing make adding conditions to this skill ok.
  • Staff 2- Add a few burning conditions and increase radius to 300. All effects hit 5 enemies and allies within the radius. The current 130 radius is not enough to support allies so the increased radius would help. This change would also be a useful for helping to contribute to breaking up the tight zergs.
  • Staff 3- Add a short duration burning condition trail and burning condition aoe burst around the user at the end of the skill movement.
  • Staff 4- Make this a circular patch, like all those other aoe patches, and add bleeding. The current cone design is awful to use in any movement based combat, so the aoe design allows this skill to be useful. This would also make the skill useful for zerg breaking and sieging structures in wvw.
  • Staff 5- Make this skill an aoe dome. The current small rectangle design is as useless as vine surge. This change allows us to support better during mass combat situations.

*These changes provide this profession with viable condi build options, and contribute to the much needed build diversity.

Comments

  • I have played the stealth trapper build in plat with WS, NM, skirmishing. It's certainly not meta, but it is good damage and quite slippery with all the stealth. It has a high health pool with carrion amulet and a decent amount of sustain with traits. I run short bow and axe/torch. I recommend people try it out.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dear Sir @Karl McLain.5604 ,

    Would you please consider my suggestions to help provide Ranger, Druid and Soulbeast specs some viable condi builds in WvW and SPvP? I have not seen any competitive condi builds in WvW, and it's a shame that most WvW Soulbeast builds utilize longbow/greatsword, or longbow/sword and warhorn, instead of those daggers...

    Thank you!

  • Krispera.5087Krispera.5087 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2018

    THROWING TRAPS

    Bringing back Throwing Traps would, IMO, instantly buff Condi rangers in WvW and PvP. That little thing can change everything.

    DAGGERS

    There are many things they need to buff to make MH Dagger viable. It doesn't have evade, support and enough impact. A thief can use Daggers very well, because they have access to many evade, shadowstep, stealth and impactfull damage. An ele can use dagger well, because the sets give them plenty of aoe, mobility, self sustain and support. A spellbreaker can use daggers well, because warrior traits and skills already give them lots of tools and synergy to play with it.

    A ranger has to invest a lot to make the Daggers work. I think most of the problems come from our OH. Warhorn is fine (Hunter's Call could use a buff), Torch is only condi damage with no support, then Dagger has an evade with a terrible Crippling Talon. If you use Torch or Warhorn, you're very naked and squishy. If you take Dagger, your damage is weak. Also, beside Ambidexterity and Predator's Cunning, I don't see any direct trait for Daggers. Predator's Cunning doesn't give enough life steal so that sticking and hitting to your target, while tanking the damage, was advantageous. It's not. For a melee weapon, it needs more defense, support and self sustain.

    Actually, I feel nothing in the traits of Soulbeast was made for Daggers. Just by looking the Minors ! Furious Strength ? The dagger gives no Fury. Twice as Vicious ? The daggers can't disable. They could give MH Dagger a cripple or immob to start with, because we can't really stick to a target with it. You'll have to use Muddy Terrain or Entangle or OH Dagger or a pet skill.

    CONDI AND PETS

    Now, what about condi pets and Soulbeast...

    Another thing that could have been good for Condi Soulbeast was Iboga, but they gave it Confusion (Which is nerfed) and Torment, which are 2 things we never had before and have no other ways to stack. Why didn't they just go with Bleed and Poison ?

    After months of waiting, they finally fixed Poison Gas from Spiders, but it wasn't enough to make us pick it over other pets. Poison Gas is on a 20 secs cooldown, which is very long for something that applies only poison for 4 secs.

    Then you have Bristleback, one of the best condi PvP/WvW pet. Nothing is wrong with it, it's in a pretty good position, but Rain of Spikes is bugged. In the note on Wiki, it says '' This skill misses in almost all circumstances as it aims at the targets' feet (or below).''.

    STAFF

    If they can look at Primal Echoes, which is super useless and make it into a real offensive staff trait. I mean ok, I can understand the cooldown reduction, but nobody will take it over Druidic Clarity.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2018

    @Krispera.5087 said:
    THROWING TRAPS

    Bringing back Throwing Traps would, IMO, instantly buff Condi rangers in WvW and PvP. That little thing can change everything.

    DAGGERS

    There are many things they need to buff to make MH Dagger viable. It doesn't have evade, support and enough impact. A thief can use Daggers very well, because they have access to many evade, shadowstep, stealth and impactfull damage. An ele can use dagger well, because the sets give them plenty of aoe, mobility, self sustain and support. A spellbreaker can use daggers well, because warrior traits and skills already give them lots of tools and synergy to play with it.

    A ranger has to invest a lot to make the Daggers work. I think most of the problems come from our OH. Warhorn is fine (Hunter's Call could use a buff), Torch is only condi damage with no support, then Dagger has an evade with a terrible Crippling Talon. If you use Torch or Warhorn, you're very naked and squishy. If you take Dagger, your damage is weak. Also, beside Ambidexterity and Predator's Cunning, I don't see any direct trait for Daggers. Predator's Cunning doesn't give enough life steal so that sticking and hitting to your target, while tanking the damage, was advantageous. It's not. For a melee weapon, it needs more defense, support and self sustain.

    Actually, I feel nothing in the traits of Soulbeast was made for Daggers. Just by looking the Minors ! Furious Strength ? The dagger gives no Fury. Twice as Vicious ? The daggers can't disable. They could give MH Dagger a cripple or immob to start with, because we can't really stick to a target with it. You'll have to use Muddy Terrain or Entangle or OH Dagger or a pet skill.

    CONDI AND PETS

    Now, what about condi pets and Soulbeast...

    Another thing that could have been good for Condi Soulbeast was Iboga, but they gave it Confusion (Which is nerfed) and Torment, which are 2 things we never had before and have no other ways to stack. Why didn't they just go with Bleed and Poison ?

    After months of waiting, they finally fixed Poison Gas from Spiders, but it wasn't enough to make us pick it over other pets. Poison Gas is on a 20 secs cooldown, which is very long for something that applies only poison for 4 secs.

    Then you have Bristleback, one of the best condi PvP/WvW pet. Nothing is wrong with it, it's in a pretty good position, but Rain of Spikes is bugged. In the note on Wiki, it says '' This skill misses in almost all circumstances as it aims at the targets' feet (or below).''.

    STAFF

    If they can look at Primal Echoes, which is super useless and make it into a real offensive staff trait. I mean ok, I can understand the cooldown reduction, but nobody will take it over Druidic Clarity.

    I actually made several suggestions to all points you brought out here.

    First:
    Dagger, Torch and WH:

    Torch: Ammunition on throw torch. Hits now 3 targetsand cripples. Bonfire is now Ground target. So you can use it on range or in melee but its easier to position and you can utilize more synergies with i.e dagger MH. You can throw bonfire and torch and jump into the field at your target for finisher.

    WH: Blind on first hit on HC would be nice, could also be implemented by go for the eyes trait.

    Dagger MH:
    Double Arc should apply heavy poison instead of bleeding and your next pet attack should daze instead if apply poison. Double synergy achieved.
    Instinctive engage should be an evade.

    Dagger OH:

    Tgis weapon lacks 1 particular thing: Impact
    But without changing weapon identity i have an easy solution to add dmg to this weapon.

    First let it hit more targets. 3 targets on talon and on strike. Strike has now more range and some kinda indicator how far you can reach with your blade.

    Second add ammunition. 2 on strike and 3 on talon.

    This way Dagger OH is a spammy fast annoying evasive weapon with more use in PvE.
    And even better in PvP.

    Spiders:

    I would actually change the spider in many ways.

    1. Change the web shot into an immobilizing field.
    2. Remive the poison gas as an autonomous skill of the pet and replace it with deadly poison from firest spider F2.
    3. Change all F2 into poisonfields that apply poison + a soecific condition.

    -> Blackwidow/ junglespider
    Field now immobilizes on pulse.
    -> Forrestspider
    Field applies 2 stacks of poison per pulse
    -> Cavespider
    Field applies weakness.

    All fields are ground targetable.

    Staff:
    Chabge primal echoes to a standalone trait that stuns on weaponswap and make natural mender into the staff trait as a major.

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 8, 2019

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Can we have some love for condi builds please?

    I had a really nice plague doctor soulbeast build a while back, basically a condi boon beast. Have to dust that off.

  • Abyssisis.3971Abyssisis.3971 Member ✭✭✭

    Daggers also need a way to trigger twice as vicious by itself without having to rely on other weapons.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Abyssisis.3971 said:
    Daggers also need a way to trigger twice as vicious by itself without having to rely on other weapons.

    double arc: when you hit a target with 10+ bleed stacks, inflict 0.75 seconds daze
    pretty much the same like thief shortbow with poison.

    just that ranger can't spam it, but still benefits from twice as vicious

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Abyssisis.3971 said:
    Daggers also need a way to trigger twice as vicious by itself without having to rely on other weapons.

    Theres way more wrong with the daggers then that. The majority of it is rooted in the Dev's perception that the Dagger is just a static DPS weapon for Raid builds. Its auto attack is slow, its chain sequence is longer and back loaded, 2 skill is just extra bleed stacks and potentially a DPS loss over the auto chain, 3 skill is ridiculously situational due to the Dagger's small strike arc, the historically inconsistent range of leap skills, its tendency to fire on the far side of small hit boxes, and its slow wind up speed; all of which contribute to making the conditional "on strike" quickness unreliable as a source in mobile fights. The weapon has zero utility in mobile fights (which includes fighting most champs), and is further highlighting the problem with Ranger's layout, and its highly scattered and overly narrow, function specific skills.

  • KeyOrion.9506KeyOrion.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    Your condi builds are built into your traps. Spike, fire so on and so forth.

  • Krispera.5087Krispera.5087 Member ✭✭✭

    Oh boy, my last message on this thread was on april and they only fixed BMode Bristleback.

    I'm playing Condi SBeast lately and I just can't help but feel miserable when I try to tag with ranger condi weapons. Why is our Shortbow so terrible for AoE when Thief and Revenant shortbows are AoE monsters ? Like many asked already, Crossfire should hit adjacent targets, like Volley in GW1 (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Volley), that would make it feel a little less tedious.

    Using the new ''buff'' from Quick Shot doesn't help in the overall DPS Benchmark, you actually lose DPS from trying to get LoyF buff. Too much back delay/leap animation.

    Also, just remove the Flanking bonuses from LoyF/Shortbow, it just doesn't work for a Condi weapon. I can understand flanking for Power weapons, but Condi ? Just NAH, not effective.

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    The traps are useless in pvp / wvw and this affects the construction conditions.
    Removing traps and giving us preparation skills would be a huge step forward.
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Preparation

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Revolution.5409 said:
    The traps are useless in pvp / wvw and this affects the construction conditions.
    Removing traps and giving us preparation skills would be a huge step forward.
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Preparation

    Well, we can’t step on the toes of thieves now, and besides, rangers can’t have nicer things lol

    “Thief trap skills are being retired for now and replaced by a new type of ability: Preparations. See below for their more information on those skills.”

  • Revolution.5409Revolution.5409 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Revolution.5409 said:
    The traps are useless in pvp / wvw and this affects the construction conditions.
    Removing traps and giving us preparation skills would be a huge step forward.
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Preparation

    Well, we can’t step on the toes of thieves now, and besides, rangers can’t have nicer things lol

    “Thief trap skills are being retired for now and replaced by a new type of ability: Preparations. See below for their more information on those skills.”

    This is something I missed. I expect the guild wars, thief's skills in the next update! LOL

    Even rituals would have been an alternative solution for traps, we hope anet does not recycle ranger skills (gw) for other professions xD

  • Abyssisis.3971Abyssisis.3971 Member ✭✭✭

    No, we get recycled skills of other professions..

    Berserker’s major master trait
    Dead or Alive 30 second cooldown
    Receiving fatal damage while in berserk mode ends berserk and heals you. Incoming healing is increased.
    Healing 5,220
    Incoming Healing Increase 10%

    Vs

    Souldbeast major grandmaster trait
    Eternal bond 60 second cooldown
    While in beastmode, if you would be downed you instead fall out of beastmode and recover health.
    Healing: 3,924 (1.5)?
    Protection (3s): -33% Incoming Damage

    Only somehow we get a worse off version despite being a higher tier trait. Rangers cannot have nice things haha

  • About Trap

    • Can throw as standard function, When have traits throw/instal trap Place addition trap on your spot too.
      I like old passive trap when heal downstage friend,when you heal them you will auto place trap under your place it troll a lot...

    About Traits "Sharpened Edge+Hidden Bards" Merge to 1passive traits.

    • You and your pet bleed is danger also your Sharpening stone will more effective.
    • you and your pet Active lesser Sharpening Stone when ???.
      -It can solve bleed problem? And no need to be cri.

    Torch

    • skill 5 bonfire can BBQ,Year I SAID can cook BBQ!!Burn foe and heal friend!!

    Shortbow
    It fair enough about flanking position.But range should be back to 1200. we master at range weapon we should handle it better.
    Light on your feet should effect with any evade-weapon and when Endurance not full should have active traits too.(because your foot is light run more roll more move more)

  • Abyssisis.3971Abyssisis.3971 Member ✭✭✭

    Trappers expertise should also come with a break stun, similar to dragonhunters trap trait.

    For example..
    When disabled, break stun and drop a spike trap on your position. 45 second cooldown
    Increase the duration of boons and conditions applied by traps. Traps gain reduced recharges and offensive ones cause cripple.
    Cripple3 sec -50% Movement Speed
    Recharge Reduced 20%
    Duration Increase 60%

    I believe we also need an elite trap.

    For example
    Pitfall
    Trap 60 second cooldown
    Places a trap that strips enemy stability and knocks them down for 3 seconds.
    Damage 500 (or whatever)
    Applies 8 seconds of confusion and weakness.
    Applies 10 stacks of vulnerability for 3 seconds
    Number of targets 5
    Trap radius 180
    Effective radius 240
    Unblockable

    Hidden barbs should be replaced with..

    Sharpened barbs
    You and your pet have a chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.
    Chance on Critical Hit 33%
    Bleeding 3 sec 88 damage
    Bleeding you inflict is more dangerous.
    Damage Increase 33%
    (soulbeast applies 2 stacks of bleeding for 3 seconds when merged with pet)

    Shortbow, I definitely reckon 1200 range as well.

    And bonfire should pulse blind as well.

  • @Abyssisis.3971 said:
    No, we get recycled skills of other professions..

    Berserker’s major master trait
    Dead or Alive 30 second cooldown
    Receiving fatal damage while in berserk mode ends berserk and heals you. Incoming healing is increased.
    Healing 5,220
    Incoming Healing Increase 10%

    Vs

    Souldbeast major grandmaster trait
    Eternal bond 60 second cooldown
    While in beastmode, if you would be downed you instead fall out of beastmode and recover health.
    Healing: 3,924 (1.5)?
    Protection (3s): -33% Incoming Damage

    Only somehow we get a worse off version despite being a higher tier trait. Rangers cannot have nice things haha

    Worth noting that there are fewer restrictions to get into beastmode than berserk. It requires the initial adrenaline investment and has a time limit. Beastmode is indefinite (granted you will want to hop in and out)

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    I’ve seen like, maybe, a couple of ranger condi builds in wvw, so I’d like to make a few suggestions to provide this profession working, and competitive, builds outside of power builds.

    SHORTBOW

    I don't mind the sbow as it is now, I do use some flank sigils with it. If they do a rework on it please let it never be like renegade sbow.

    TRAPS

    • Give back throwable traps (as a standard function, not trait related) to this profession. Only this profession. 900 range option.
    • Reevaluate the damage and cc on these so they are a lil more impactful.
    • Considering the Trapper Expertise Trait has a Boon buff... “Boons and conditions caused by your traps last 60% longer.”, perhaps we could add some Boons to actually buff... Yeah, I know the heal takes advantage of that buff, but there aren’t any other ones.

    All the things that were changed a long time ago, which people deemed problematic [then] would feel at home in this post pof age, like traps being able to be thrown again. They also need to look at updating core stuff on every class to keep up which have no use in the current meta era, just in general

    SAMPLE TRAP IDEAS

    About the alacrity one, I dunno. Would be weird and doesn't make sense to me.

    NEW ELITE TRAP

    • Causes Torment on foes. Gain Might on trigger. OR Daze foes. Refreshes all traps when triggered. OR Causes Blindness on trigger. Gain Fury when triggered. OPTION- Up to 900 range ground target.

    An elite trap would be nice, I always wanted one, and make it an ammo skill. It either has to be an offensive or defensive one, and not both.

    I am still waiting on this as well, it's too scary canary for me to use it as mainhand in wvw. I will keep trying anyways. I am ok with offhand dagger for the most part.

    DRUID STAFF (Druid is really lagging behind overall btw. This entire spec could be so much cooler and fun with some reworks)

    • Staff 1- Add 1 burning condition to the 3rd attack tick. The low damage and low healing make adding conditions to this skill ok.
    • Staff 2- Add a few burning conditions and increase radius to 300. All effects hit 5 enemies and allies within the radius. The current 130 radius is not enough to support allies so the increased radius would help. This change would also be a useful for helping to contribute to breaking up the tight zergs.
    • Staff 3- Add a short duration burning condition trail and burning condition aoe burst around the user at the end of the skill movement.
    • Staff 4- Make this a circular patch, like all those other aoe patches, and add bleeding. The current cone design is awful to use in any movement based combat, so the aoe design allows this skill to be useful. This would also make the skill useful for zerg breaking and sieging structures in wvw.
    • Staff 5- Make this skill an aoe dome. The current small rectangle design is as useless as vine surge. This change allows us to support better during mass combat situations.

    *These changes provide this profession with viable condi build options, and contribute to the much needed build diversity.

    I can't say much about druid side of things, I still like mine the way it is but I will accept any changes.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2019

    Please stop trying to push condi druid… Condi druid led to a bad playstyle were players thought they were good because they were tanky and doing damage when none of them knew how to support.
    Doing passive damage without thinking is just bad.

    Staff is already a good weapon. Only 2 and 4 need improvements.
    2 is strong in PvE because heals a lot of players and has a lot of ticks. In PvP it is bad because it is dangerous to get close for the heal and in a small aoe. Leading to a heal weaker than regeneration. Suggestion :Add a defense or damage boost to allies.
    4 has some potential even if this is slow. Suggestion : Add healing on dispell and dispell more conditions (slow and torment) or make it work like the revenant road. (edit : it does dispell yourself my previous message was wrong, sometimes it does not seem to work if you run in the opposite direction)
    Druid avatar needs faster spells and keeping some astral force progression on death. Glyph of alignment (Healing version) is one of my favorite druid skills. It is fast and effective. (also underestimated even in PvE).

    What druid already has in his kit is :
    Support/buffer build (might, stealth and previously even dmg boost on a glyph)
    Healing build (dispels, increased healing)
    Weakening enemies (daze, control)
    THOSE ARE THE 3 ASPECTS THAT SHOULD BE IMPROVED. Making druid a full team player /support and not a solo player (like the staff cd reduction on allies). Either choosing to be strong healer, a strong buffer or someone decreasing enemies strength.

    For shortbow I like the flanking.

    Traps giving buffs would be nice even if that would be weak. I miss when spike trap was the shortest cd trap… It was a small immob but it made other traps way more consistent. (edit : what is funny is that the "training ranger" in the sPvP area still throws his traps, he even throws the old spike trap with immob)

    Dagger needs some sustain. My main issue is that even in PvE the dagger is weak. I know this is used in the power slb build but I think sword should be used (it is way easier since you just need to auto) and this is clearly not what the dev wanted. Slb synergy with dagger is weak I agree with Krispera

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2019

    @Swagger.1459 That is a cause I can get behind ^^. But condi druid was not the healthiest build we had :tongue: I would love beeing a viable support once more :anguished:

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2019

    @aymnad.9023 said:
    @Swagger.1459 That is a cause I can get behind ^^. But condi druid was not the healthiest build we had :tongue: I would love beeing a viable support once more :anguished:

    Yup! And we gotta stick together! Through solidarity we can make amazing things happen for Ranger!

    I got your back my friend! https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/39412/eye-on-druid-ideas-yay

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    1. Nope no backstab. That's thief territory and should not get into ranger mechanics
    2. Traps at 600 range would be enough IMO. It's a nice middle ground between no range and full range and it prevents abusing/complaining.
    3. Traps trait should give spike trap on getting disabled. Trap condis/boon should get increased baseline.
    4. Entangle should be the elite trap. Pulsing roots more than once.
    5. Shortbow piercing should be baseline on the auto attack.
    6. Shortbow flanking improves provided by the trait should be put on the weapon without the trait (maybe tuned/adjusted in some way)
    7. Skirmishing in total should be reworked in similar style to renegade traits. So boosting precision, ferocity and condi damage respectively.
    8. Torch and dagger traits should get reworked too.
    9. Dagger and sword trait should be put in the same trait and should focus on getting bonuses on evades
    10. Torch should get bonuses on combofields like increasing field duration when combing in it
    11. Dagger would benefit from a shadowstep on crippling talon and ammo on stalker strike
    12. Torch could need ammo and cleave on throw torch and ground target range 900 on bonfire
    13. Add a trait that adds a small cleave AoE on projectile finishers. Maybe slab that on the LoyF trait.
    14. Increased ranged on shortbow is fine IMO
    15. Better weaponswaps traits in skirmishing like triggering smaller sharpening stone on weaponswaps etc.

    Thats all I would add for condi.
    Druid is a whole other story and needs mechanical changes first before the traits or the weapons gets touched.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    1. Nope no backstab. That's thief territory and should not get into ranger mechanics
    2. Traps at 600 range would be enough IMO. It's a nice middle ground between no range and full range and it prevents abusing/complaining.
    3. Traps trait should give spike trap on getting disabled. Trap condis/boon should get increased baseline.
    4. Entangle should be the elite trap. Pulsing roots more than once.
    5. Shortbow piercing should be baseline on the auto attack.
    6. Shortbow flanking improves provided by the trait should be put on the weapon without the trait (maybe tuned/adjusted in some way)
    7. Skirmishing in total should be reworked in similar style to renegade traits. So boosting precision, ferocity and condi damage respectively.
    8. Torch and dagger traits should get reworked too.
    9. Dagger and sword trait should be put in the same trait and should focus on getting bonuses on evades
    10. Torch should get bonuses on combofields like increasing field duration when combing in it
    11. Dagger would benefit from a shadowstep on crippling talon and ammo on stalker strike
    12. Torch could need ammo and cleave on throw torch and ground target range 900 on bonfire
    13. Add a trait that adds a small cleave AoE on projectile finishers. Maybe slab that on the LoyF trait.
    14. Increased ranged on shortbow is fine IMO
    15. Better weaponswaps traits in skirmishing like triggering smaller sharpening stone on weaponswaps etc.

    Thats all I would add for condi.
    Druid is a whole other story and needs mechanical changes first before the traits or the weapons gets touched.

    About the condi ranger i dont think wee need that much rework, just small changes.

    • all ranger projectiles by baseline has 100% to trigger combo porjectile.
    • shortbow range 1200
    • Shortbow remove the flanking thing, it applies the actual flanking effect to target.
    • Shortbow projectiles splinter on impact hiting another 2 targets in 300 radius applying the actual no-flanking effects.
    • Shortbow GM increase the splinter effect to 450 radius + 2 aditional targets, plus condition damage when welding the weapon.
    • Skirimish sharpened edges to be a minor.
    • new trait garantes 100% chance on crit for shapened edges .

    There are more details about the rework in thread in my signature, like the vines traps or the smocke trap.

    I like the idea of ranged AoE for spirits, i preffer traps to behave now, it's more consistent.
    The difference is you can use the any projectile to trigger combo fields, which traps should be ale to provide.

    I think that design is more engaging without giving to much ranged AoE.

    The bunny trumpet could be the next spec to bring necro alike ranged AoEs.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @""anduriell.6280"

    Yeah these ideas seem nice too.
    Sharpened edges and hidden barbs could be merged and a new trait that would trigger sharpening stone could be nice. Like on weaponswaps or on finisher trigger with an ICD.

  • guest.9472guest.9472 Member ✭✭✭

    condi ranger is op currently. not sure what this thread is for lol

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2019

    @guest.9472 said:
    condi ranger is op currently. not sure what this thread is for lol

    Take your condi Ranger in wvw sometime, then let us know how it goes and how “op” it is. Better yet, record your wvw experience and post unedited videos of it.

  • Jarl.8607Jarl.8607 Member ✭✭

    @guest.9472 said:
    condi ranger is op currently. not sure what this thread is for lol

    In what way is it OP? Share more info please.

  • guest.9472guest.9472 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2019

    @Jarl.8607 said:

    @guest.9472 said:
    condi ranger is op currently. not sure what this thread is for lol

    In what way is it OP? Share more info please.

    It punishes everything your opponent does and fails to do. High pressure high sustain. Not sharing build either ive shown enough people. It beats condi theif just slower, less cover condis. Its amazing that people dont experiment with pets or weapons on the mpst versatile class.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2019

    Then post your mighty 1v4 condi Ranger build and show us your vids.

    I have 7 rangers by the way, all with multiple gear sets for different builds, and 1 with full legendary gears to test every build. I’m fully aware of the difference in performance levels inside wvw for different Ranger set-ups. This year was the first time I ever ran a zerker type build, just so you’re aware of how much I have avoided meta builds over 7 years.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2019

    Sorry pal, this post is about shortbow, traps, both daggers and adding in condi to staff. You were not using those weapons or slot skills at all in that video, besides the off hand dagger. But thanks for posting your more power based builds, much appreciated!

  • guest.9472guest.9472 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:
    condi ranger is op currently. not sure what this thread is for lol

    Take your condi Ranger in wvw sometime, then let us know how it goes and how “op” it is. Better yet, record your wvw experience and post unedited videos of it.

    I did and it performs much better in wvw. Good smallscale aoe damage multiple 1v4s. Again as I said its op. But the way this community works is it follows what the popular kids are doing and "nothing else is possible." Such a joke

    Then post your mighty 1v4 condi Ranger build and show us your vids.

    I posted one showing that even condi druid, which is far less effective, performs well without the highest stat item. The sarcasm is funny too given the fact that the entire pvp discord thinks Im a hacker after experiencing the build. Nearly infinite evasion, high pressure and sustain.

  • guest.9472guest.9472 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:
    condi ranger is op currently. not sure what this thread is for lol

    Take your condi Ranger in wvw sometime, then let me know how to play it since i rely on website builds

    I did and it performs much better in wvw. Good smallscale aoe damage multiple 1v4s on the soulbeast version. Again as I said its op. But the way this community works is it follows what the popular kids are doing and "nothing else is possible." Such a joke. I did a 1v3 without wearing an armor piece, condi druid. What youll say about that? Good luck too? When will people realize that adherence to meta is a choice not a requirement. And have w/e salty reply u got ready as is the norm for rangers when they first discover the crutch AA exploits and gimmicks they rely on.

    Sorry pal, this post is about shortbow, traps, both daggers and adding in condi to staff. You were not using those weapons or slot skills at all in that video, besides the off hand dagger.

    The post is about the assertion that condi ranger under performs. What i showed was a condi ranger that over performed. The current soulbeast build i use is short bow sword dagger. The ranger community is so linear that as soon as condi is mentioned, they rely on traps. With soulbeast, you dont need a single trap. The thread is titled condition builds 2.0. I am simply offering the perspective that an improvement isnt needed, atleast not outside of one's capability

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2019

    Posting builds that are more power based isn’t helping your argument. You swoop in the thread claiming “op” then post vids of power based builds...

    I have just about every build Ranger can have, and there is a difference between power based builds and true condi based builds. You’re not fooling anyone here by claiming Ranger condi builds are “op” or even on par with power build performance.

    I’m not here to talk about power builds with you. This thread is about specific underperforming condi weapons and skills.

  • guest.9472guest.9472 Member ✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:
    condi ranger is op currently. not sure what this thread is for lol

    Take your condi Ranger in wvw sometime, then let me know how to play it since i rely on website builds

    I did and it performs much better in wvw. Good smallscale aoe damage multiple 1v4s on the soulbeast version. Again as I said its op. But the way this community works is it follows what the popular kids are doing and "nothing else is possible." Such a joke. I did a 1v3 without wearing an armor piece, condi druid. What youll say about that? Good luck too? When will people realize that adherence to meta is a choice not a requirement. And have w/e salty reply u got ready as is the norm for rangers when they first discover the crutch AA exploits and gimmicks they rely on.

    Sorry pal, this post is about shortbow, traps, both daggers and adding in condi to staff. You were not using those weapons or slot skills at all in that video, besides the off hand dagger.

    The post is about the assertion that condi ranger under performs. What i showed was a condi ranger that over performed. The current soulbeast build i use is short bow sword dagger. The ranger community is so linear that as soon as condi is mentioned, they rely on traps. With soulbeast, you dont need a single trap. The thread is titled condition builds 2.0. I am simply offering the perspective that an improvement isnt needed, atleast not outside of one's capability

    Posting builds that are more power based isn’t helping your argument. You swoop in the thread claiming “op” then post vids of power based builds...

    I have just about every build Ranger can have, and there is a difference between power based builds and true condi based builds. You’re not fooling anyone here by claiming Ranger condi builds are “op” or even on par with power build performance.

    I’m not here to talk about power builds with you. This thread is about specific underperforming condi weapons and skills.

    Nothing i posted was power based. The very first combat clip is the condi shirtless druid i was talking about. Nothing else in that vid is mentioned yet im sure you kept watching. Try again "pal." You keep talking about how much you know, but you dont really know condi ranger. Its currently op. Shortbow is fine sword dagger off hand is fine. And i never said this build is on par with power builds, because it beats them.

    "I know this" and "I know that" lol Ive played eu and na beat top 10s regularly with it. In wvw it only becomes even better. Whatever point youre trying to make doesnt matter. Youre wrong, condi ranger isnt underperforming at all. Read tool tips and stop using the same 3 pets for 6+ years and maybe for once youll see something you havent before lol

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2019
  • All thing aside @guest.9472, I would love to see the a good, SB - d/d Soulbeast, PvP video. You obviously know how to play and how to edit videos, plz indulge me.

  • Jarl.8607Jarl.8607 Member ✭✭

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Jarl.8607 said:

    @guest.9472 said:
    condi ranger is op currently. not sure what this thread is for lol

    In what way is it OP? Share more info please.

    It punishes everything your opponent does and fails to do. High pressure high sustain. Not sharing build either ive shown enough people. It beats condi theif just slower, less cover condis. Its amazing that people dont experiment with pets or weapons on the mpst versatile class.

    Thanks for the vid. Sometimes seeing game play helps those who just started the class.

  • I didn't know that I needed GW2 dueling videos with narrative until now.

  • guest.9472guest.9472 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jarl.8607 said:

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Jarl.8607 said:

    @guest.9472 said:
    condi ranger is op currently. not sure what this thread is for lol

    In what way is it OP? Share more info please.

    It punishes everything your opponent does and fails to do. High pressure high sustain. Not sharing build either ive shown enough people. It beats condi theif just slower, less cover condis. Its amazing that people dont experiment with pets or weapons on the mpst versatile class.

    Thanks for the vid. Sometimes seeing game play helps those who just started the class.

    Im putting all of my tech into a guide video this week afters tons of requests.

  • Dragonzhunter.8506Dragonzhunter.8506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:
    condi ranger is op currently. not sure what this thread is for lol

    Take your condi Ranger in wvw sometime, then let me know how to play it since i rely on website builds

    I did and it performs much better in wvw. Good smallscale aoe damage multiple 1v4s on the soulbeast version. Again as I said its op. But the way this community works is it follows what the popular kids are doing and "nothing else is possible." Such a joke. I did a 1v3 without wearing an armor piece, condi druid. What youll say about that? Good luck too? When will people realize that adherence to meta is a choice not a requirement. And have w/e salty reply u got ready as is the norm for rangers when they first discover the crutch AA exploits and gimmicks they rely on.

    Sorry pal, this post is about shortbow, traps, both daggers and adding in condi to staff. You were not using those weapons or slot skills at all in that video, besides the off hand dagger.

    The post is about the assertion that condi ranger under performs. What i showed was a condi ranger that over performed. The current soulbeast build i use is short bow sword dagger. The ranger community is so linear that as soon as condi is mentioned, they rely on traps. With soulbeast, you dont need a single trap. The thread is titled condition builds 2.0. I am simply offering the perspective that an improvement isnt needed, atleast not outside of one's capability

    Posting builds that are more power based isn’t helping your argument. You swoop in the thread claiming “op” then post vids of power based builds...

    I have just about every build Ranger can have, and there is a difference between power based builds and true condi based builds. You’re not fooling anyone here by claiming Ranger condi builds are “op” or even on par with power build performance.

    I’m not here to talk about power builds with you. This thread is about specific underperforming condi weapons and skills.

    Nothing i posted was power based. The very first combat clip is the condi shirtless druid i was talking about. Nothing else in that vid is mentioned yet im sure you kept watching. Try again "pal." You keep talking about how much you know, but you dont really know condi ranger. Its currently op. Shortbow is fine sword dagger off hand is fine. And i never said this build is on par with power builds, because it beats them.

    "I know this" and "I know that" lol Ive played eu and na beat top 10s regularly with it. In wvw it only becomes even better. Whatever point youre trying to make doesnt matter. Youre wrong, condi ranger isnt underperforming at all. Read tool tips and stop using the same 3 pets for 6+ years and maybe for once youll see something you havent before lol

    You can say whatever you want, but in WvW, a condition ranger with short bow can't beat a power ranger with Lb/Gs. This is not happening in PvP either. Only if you are a really, really, really good player, and your opponent is a medium player, then yes you can beat with condition build a power build. Condition build is a close / medium range, that's why couldn't performe the same way as a power Lb/Gs build in WvW, where it is an open space for fights. Yes a condi trapper build it is annoying and he can make a lots of trouble to any other class, even against a ranger, but if the opponent is on the same calibre regarding fighting skills, I really doubt that in WvW the condi can beat power. And it is not about the pets, but about the condi weapon ranger have and about all the coef.

  • Dragonzhunter.8506Dragonzhunter.8506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    After I posted the comment above, the guy @guest.9472 sent me 2 emails where he swears me and writes all kinds of stuff.

    https://ibb.co/pxmDj7N
    https://ibb.co/hBNxxNj

    I am sure that both accounts @guest.9472 and the one from email are f2p. But I hope that a GM could find him somehow and give him a warning.

    Anyway, now we know what kind of player he is.

  • Dragonzhunter.8506Dragonzhunter.8506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:
    condi ranger is op currently. not sure what this thread is for lol

    Take your condi Ranger in wvw sometime, then let me know how to play it since i rely on website builds

    I did and it performs much better in wvw. Good smallscale aoe damage multiple 1v4s on the soulbeast version. Again as I said its op. But the way this community works is it follows what the popular kids are doing and "nothing else is possible." Such a joke. I did a 1v3 without wearing an armor piece, condi druid. What youll say about that? Good luck too? When will people realize that adherence to meta is a choice not a requirement. And have w/e salty reply u got ready as is the norm for rangers when they first discover the crutch AA exploits and gimmicks they rely on.

    Sorry pal, this post is about shortbow, traps, both daggers and adding in condi to staff. You were not using those weapons or slot skills at all in that video, besides the off hand dagger.

    The post is about the assertion that condi ranger under performs. What i showed was a condi ranger that over performed. The current soulbeast build i use is short bow sword dagger. The ranger community is so linear that as soon as condi is mentioned, they rely on traps. With soulbeast, you dont need a single trap. The thread is titled condition builds 2.0. I am simply offering the perspective that an improvement isnt needed, atleast not outside of one's capability

    Posting builds that are more power based isn’t helping your argument. You swoop in the thread claiming “op” then post vids of power based builds...

    I have just about every build Ranger can have, and there is a difference between power based builds and true condi based builds. You’re not fooling anyone here by claiming Ranger condi builds are “op” or even on par with power build performance.

    I’m not here to talk about power builds with you. This thread is about specific underperforming condi weapons and skills.

    Nothing i posted was power based. The very first combat clip is the condi shirtless druid i was talking about. Nothing else in that vid is mentioned yet im sure you kept watching. Try again "pal." You keep talking about how much you know, but you dont really know condi ranger. Its currently op. Shortbow is fine sword dagger off hand is fine. And i never said this build is on par with power builds, because it beats them.

    "I know this" and "I know that" lol Ive played eu and na beat top 10s regularly with it. In wvw it only becomes even better. Whatever point youre trying to make doesnt matter. Youre wrong, condi ranger isnt underperforming at all. Read tool tips and stop using the same 3 pets for 6+ years and maybe for once youll see something you havent before lol

    You are saying your first fight was a condi druid build, still your build was Beastmaster/Survival/Druid. Beastmaster definitely it is a condi trait line :D. The only condi thing you used from the traits line is Ambidexterity. So you mixed power with condi ... but still, you call yourself a condi Ranger. You make me laugh.
    For the rest of the fights, as @Swagger.1459 already said, your builds are power-based, weapons, traits, utilities all are power things and not condi (well almost of them at least). Even on your printscreen from sPVP, you use many times LB, another "condi" based weapon.
    In conclusion, you are a joke who doesn't know anything but swears when you were caught.

    PS: I saw you are using Owl as a pet too, another "condi" based pet ... same for Rock Gazelle ...

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    Nah i said before. We need in the forums the information of how many hours with reach class in each gamemode that commenter has. Then you can decide if you bite or ignore the comment.

    Too many F2P troll accounts. It's too easy. At least limit the posting to B2P accounts as to limit the trolling.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @guest.9472 said:
    condi ranger is op currently. not sure what this thread is for lol

    Take your condi Ranger in wvw sometime, then let me know how to play it since i rely on website builds

    I did and it performs much better in wvw. Good smallscale aoe damage multiple 1v4s on the soulbeast version. Again as I said its op. But the way this community works is it follows what the popular kids are doing and "nothing else is possible." Such a joke. I did a 1v3 without wearing an armor piece, condi druid. What youll say about that? Good luck too? When will people realize that adherence to meta is a choice not a requirement. And have w/e salty reply u got ready as is the norm for rangers when they first discover the crutch AA exploits and gimmicks they rely on.

    Sorry pal, this post is about shortbow, traps, both daggers and adding in condi to staff. You were not using those weapons or slot skills at all in that video, besides the off hand dagger.

    The post is about the assertion that condi ranger under performs. What i showed was a condi ranger that over performed. The current soulbeast build i use is short bow sword dagger. The ranger community is so linear that as soon as condi is mentioned, they rely on traps. With soulbeast, you dont need a single trap. The thread is titled condition builds 2.0. I am simply offering the perspective that an improvement isnt needed, atleast not outside of one's capability

    Posting builds that are more power based isn’t helping your argument. You swoop in the thread claiming “op” then post vids of power based builds...

    I have just about every build Ranger can have, and there is a difference between power based builds and true condi based builds. You’re not fooling anyone here by claiming Ranger condi builds are “op” or even on par with power build performance.

    I’m not here to talk about power builds with you. This thread is about specific underperforming condi weapons and skills.

    Nothing i posted was power based. The very first combat clip is the condi shirtless druid i was talking about. Nothing else in that vid is mentioned yet im sure you kept watching. Try again "pal." You keep talking about how much you know, but you dont really know condi ranger. Its currently op. Shortbow is fine sword dagger off hand is fine. And i never said this build is on par with power builds, because it beats them.

    "I know this" and "I know that" lol Ive played eu and na beat top 10s regularly with it. In wvw it only becomes even better. Whatever point youre trying to make doesnt matter. Youre wrong, condi ranger isnt underperforming at all. Read tool tips and stop using the same 3 pets for 6+ years and maybe for once youll see something you havent before lol

    You are saying your first fight was a condi druid build, still your build was Beastmaster/Survival/Druid. Beastmaster definitely it is a condi trait line :D. The only condi thing you used from the traits line is Ambidexterity. So you mixed power with condi ... but still, you call yourself a condi Ranger. You make me laugh.
    For the rest of the fights, as @Swagger.1459 already said, your builds are power-based, weapons, traits, utilities all are power things and not condi (well almost of them at least). Even on your printscreen from sPVP, you use many times LB, another "condi" based weapon.
    In conclusion, you are a joke who doesn't know anything but swears when you were caught.

    PS: I saw you are using Owl as a pet too, another "condi" based pet ... same for Rock Gazelle ...

    Shots Fired

    Wish my old condi ranger builds (druid and core) were still as strong today as they were back then. Mained it for quite a while in PvP (my first class title was achieved on it)

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    CLOK Commander and all around nice bro

  • just making traps throwable would be all the buff they need.

    i think ranger's condi specialisation should be poison and bleeding (with burning from trap and torch). i think that's fine.

    staff does need a little love. i think poison on the #2, and bleeding on the #4, and the #1 skill should chain to 2 additional targets.

    M/H dagger is pretty bad, i'd suggest the #2 be AOE, and the #3 be an evade leap and extend the leap to 450 minimum.

    glyph trait "verdant etching" ought to be 240 or 360 radius, 180 is unusable in WVW.