What happened in pug raiding? Skill level is really low (RANT THREAD) - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What happened in pug raiding? Skill level is really low (RANT THREAD)

2>

Comments

  • hellsqueen.3045hellsqueen.3045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018

    @polvere.2805 said:
    Why does every thread about raids get derailed into "we need an easy mode for raids" ? There is already a thread on this subject.

    @hellsqueen.3045
    NO. Thie is just the same mentality that there is in open world. It's just absurd that you want to be able to clear and "hard encounter" (or at least harder than the rest of the game) with whatever random build and random stats you come up with. It would mean that the encounter is so stupidly easy that even naked player could clear it which is just stupid in an MMO. TBH this is the kind of mentality that i was ranting about in my original post. The mentality to play whatever you want however you like and hope to suceed coff get carried coff, while making other 9 persons waste precious gaming time. I don't know if you have the whole day to play Gw2 and get things done, i have not.
    I am not an elitist, if you play something off meta and it works then fine for me. But there are minimum standards that your off meta build must reach. Don't expect me to welcome a full cleric shout warrior with open hands in my raid team.

    OT BEGINS
    This is the only thing i say about easy mode raids: it's totally unnecessary, it's not that hard to organize a training team and the tools to do it are there, you just need to NOT BE UNSOCIAL. if an easy raid mode means less time on developing new content then i am totally against it. If not i am ok with it, just remove rewards from it. If you train for raids you usually spend some time wiping over and over ---> no rewards. Why should you be rewarded for having cleared an even dumbed down encounter that was not that hard in the first place and required just some practise ?
    In the end it's clear that it's not a solution, fractals have easy mode (t1-2-3) when you get to tier 4 you get those random players that don't even know their class and you guess how the hell they made it there. Community solution ? 100 CM kp groups to filter those guys. What has changed ?
    New players don't need easy mode, they need to just be patient as all of us raiders have been. TBH 1 month of spending 2-3 hours a week to train is enough to already get you in most of the encounters if you really are dedicated to it. This is an MMO where you are not supposed to get everything in little time.
    OT ENDS

    After reading again the thread i can sum this up like this:
    New and old Raiders don't be kitten, be honest with your experience, and actually try to play decently and improve. It's not hard and none expects you to play like SC. It's not even required to clear and encounter. Just don't be the wannabe carried boi.

    An easy mode, that would teach people how to respond to the mechanics without the punishment possibly causing the team to wipe and you think that is a problem? This would help people learn much better than just jumping straight in.
    An easy mode, providing lower rewards to a point where it would take such a huge time longer to earn anything that would result in a lot of inexperienced players to stop joining groups and not always being honest about their builds on occassion?

    I tried raiding once when it came out and no one knew what the hell was going on, tried later one more time and we nearly killed the boss we were fighting but we were a group of randoms who advertised clear that we were inexperienced and made it clear we would take whatever people had so long as it fit well enough within a role we were looking for and it was mainly mechanics that messed us up and not builds because people were too often not realising when to use the dodging ability and would get knocked off or killed.

    Having an easier mode or having people test their own builds in their own little groups wouldn't effect the serious players because perhaps you will never come across one another because you all go off on your own and make your tough to join groups, etc. Content in this game should not be completely inaccessible to people just because they don't want to run meta and don't have a ton of legendary insights which results in only clearing the encounters in the quickest ways possible.

    I look forward to my guild building up enough interested parties willing to try and make what we have work well enough, the only thing that would help us reach that goal soon enough would be the actual encounters having an easier mode to learn the mechanics a little easier until we can decide we have developed ourselves enough and we are confident enough to try harder things as a team. This doesn't effect you. We should likely never encounter you because we will likely be doing our own thing.

    I have seen people kicked from their own dungeons at level 35 because they were new. inexperienced and not level 80.
    I have had to defend new players who actually want to kill stuff in dungeons instead of just running past it all, because some player doesn't give a kitten about anyone else around them and wants to complete the run in a short of time as possible in the way they believed it was meant to be done. They weren't designed to be skipped, it is an option and people can clear out mobs if they want to. This behaviour feels exactly like what even trying to join up to a raid party seems like or even starting a party and have people judge you if they are experienced raiders.

    Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
    "Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point

    JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!

  • Xar.1387Xar.1387 Member ✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018

    Calm down
    Skill lvl isnt that low yet. It will be MUCH lower in the future if Anet wont support raids alot more.

    Look at the current state of PvP. Its full of new players which just want to get asc/lege eq there. And when they finally got it (and already learned how to play) they're leaving this mode. Cause there's nothing more to do there. No esport. And also many real PvPrs - people which love to compete etc, etc - already left this mode. For the same reason.
    Its simple. People dont want to waste their time, and energy to became better and better in games which dont reward their skills properly.
    Anet were advertising gw2 as an e-sport, pvp game. With esl support. Championships. Real money prizes, etc etc. And they just stopped doing it

    Something similar slowly happens to raids. They advertised it in HoT and it looked like they really want to support it so hard. In GW2.
    Anet was even talking about 6 wings per year
    youtube.com/watch?v=tM8cgQ42bMQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1015
    Etc, etc. Nobody expected 1 wing per year. So raids slowly changes into another place to farm. Not to progress things regularly. And ppl get used to it.

    Thats why alot of skilled raiders just leaves the game. Because they simply get bored of doing same things over and over.
    And looking for challengies on their own. Like low-man raids or speed-kills.
    So skill level is going lower and lower.

    ALso the way Anet is developing raids is just bad. Cause after all noone is satisfied.
    Because when there's no new challengies added regularly into the game, then people starts to find those challengies on ther own.
    And changes easy content into something pseudo-hardcore. Heres where "elitism" and toxicity grows.
    Like... People care 2much about dps - and they require from others alot more than needed. Also players wants to do some things faster and faster.
    While doing it slower irritates them. They require more and more KP's. Etc, etc. Doing same things over and over makes it.

    Raids should be based on doing new things regularly. First kills. Progression. And stuff like that.
    Not farming that much as it is right now. Then it would be much more healthy. And not that salty as it is in gw2

    http://aiwe.eu - Polish (RolePlay / Raid / PvP) guild

  • polvere.2805polvere.2805 Member ✭✭✭

    @hellsqueen.3045
    There is a thread to keep talking about easy raid mode. Go talk about it there

    I think the thread has reached dying state, basically everything that is coming up is OT or things already said. It has been interesting.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xar.1387 said:
    Calm down

    Snip

    Something similar slowly happens to raids. They advertised it in HoT and it looked like they really want to support it so hard. In GW2.
    Anet was even talking about 6 wings per year
    youtube.com/watch?v=tM8cgQ42bMQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1015
    Etc, etc. Nobody expected 1 wing per year. So raids slowly changes into another place to farm. Not to progress things regularly. And ppl get used to it.

    Snip

    Well that 6wings was what they could possibly release at maximum a year not promised at all that they would do that ever.

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭

    The player skill level in GW2 is pretty low. PvE, PvP, WvW... Low skill players everywhere

    Twitch | YouTube

    Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2018

    Skill on gw2 pve mechanics.... good laugh man.

  • polvere.2805polvere.2805 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Skill on gw2 pve mechanics.... good laugh man.

    Go back to the pvp subforum man, what are you doing here ?

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2018

    @mrauls.6519 said:
    The player skill level in GW2 is pretty low. PvE, PvP, WvW... Low skill players everywhere

    Just look at the pve mechanics and the class (skills design) players dont need to learn nothing, if they get out of a red ring wich mobs/bosses drop always on the same place they already feel super leet, i actually dropped out of any pvp side of this game and have been focused on pve... the game is so dumbed down at the momment in terms of mob behavior.... what skills will players will get..? more aoe spam skills or more keybashing? 99% of time is just needed 111111 and lots of mobs get killed....

    There isnt any skill to gain/improve actually.... it is a game to carry its players with "meta gimmicks", ofc the skill level on this game is pretty shamefull, it was ment to be to those players.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @mrauls.6519 said:
    The player skill level in GW2 is pretty low. PvE, PvP, WvW... Low skill players everywhere

    Just look at the pve mechanics and the class (skills design) players dont need to learn nothing, if they get out of a red ring wich mobs/bosses drop always on the same place they already feel super leet, i actually dropped out of any pvp side of this game and have been focused on pve... the game is so dumbed down at the momment in terms of mob behavior.... what skills will players will get..? more aoe spam skills or more keybashing? 99% of time is just needed 111111 and lots of mobs get killed....

    There isnt any skill to gain/improve actually.... it is a game to carry its players with "meta gimmicks", ofc the skill level on this game is pretty shamefull, it was ment to be to those players.

    What do you consider to be a hard game? And if it's not a MMO, why should you care about whether or not MMO's are hard? I mean it's not like you didn't know what you were getting into when you bought it...

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    99% of time is just needed 111111 and lots of mobs get killed....

    The game isn't only about open world farming.

  • Pugging is like flipping a coin, It can go super well or it can turn super spicy.

    Personally I like when it gets a little bit spicy. I do not mind the ekstra bit of flavour it gives. You get to see all kinds of weird stuff.

  • @polvere.2805 said:
    What happened in pug ? I haven't pugged in a while since i have a static. This week due to irl things i was not able to join my static for the weekly clears so i decided to pug. Oh boy it was nightmarish. Some bosses are absolutely impossible for the average pug:

    (I was playing as chrono in most of the encounters, either tank or off tank)

    First of all, Deimos: i have been in various party of deimos this week, ages to full the whole group since it requires some particular roles. With one group i had to gg 3 TIMES in the first phase (yeah deimos was not even on the field) cause dps could not dodge his smash in the underground. YEAH 3 TIMES
    I cant count how many groups had people happily walked into blacks, even in ranged strat. In some groups where i swapped to bs i was doing more dps than most dps.
    Notice: in most of the encounters the group was 250li+.

    Dhuum : have been in 3-4 party of 30kp+ , hard to get even to 50%, there is always the dude screwing up with greens (i usually take one green myself in order to at least have a sure one), or even worse, the dude screwing up with the bomb, killing the whole group by not noticing the afflicted. Oh i have seen a group where basically the whole squad decided after some time that walking in front of dhuum and facetanking his scythe was a good idea...(notice, they walked in front of him, dhuum was facing the right direction, tank was doing a good job)

    Luckily i cleared Xera with static the only day i could play with them.
    The only clean run i had was the W1 run. I commanded it and required almost 30 min to full the group (i was asking for a 250li ping plus some more after them in rapid succesion, just to reduce the proabbility of a fake pinger)
    I will not go into details of the absoultely trash dps most pugs do (can't even reach 20 k personal dps which is not even that high), and the capability to NEVER stay in the right position.

    DISCLAIMER NO PUGS WERE FLAMED (even though they probably deserved it)
    I tend to be a cheerful person, i NEVER flamed a single person. If the group is not ok by my standards i just write, "sorry this is going nowhere" and leave.

    Just what is happening in pugs ? All the good players must be in statics obv.
    Now i understand why so many posts about "dps shaming" or "meta trash" or whatever complaint some people come up with for not wanting to invest 20 min of their life in gearing and learning a decent rotation and some mech on their main char.

    That's because raiders ask people who just want to start raiding for 250+ LI and KPs. How are they supposed to get that or learn if nobody wants them?
    It's the same as entry level job requiring 3+ years of experience.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2018

    @AoTsuki.8675 said:

    @polvere.2805 said:
    What happened in pug ? I haven't pugged in a while since i have a static. This week due to irl things i was not able to join my static for the weekly clears so i decided to pug. Oh boy it was nightmarish. Some bosses are absolutely impossible for the average pug:

    (I was playing as chrono in most of the encounters, either tank or off tank)

    First of all, Deimos: i have been in various party of deimos this week, ages to full the whole group since it requires some particular roles. With one group i had to gg 3 TIMES in the first phase (yeah deimos was not even on the field) cause dps could not dodge his smash in the underground. YEAH 3 TIMES
    I cant count how many groups had people happily walked into blacks, even in ranged strat. In some groups where i swapped to bs i was doing more dps than most dps.
    Notice: in most of the encounters the group was 250li+.

    Dhuum : have been in 3-4 party of 30kp+ , hard to get even to 50%, there is always the dude screwing up with greens (i usually take one green myself in order to at least have a sure one), or even worse, the dude screwing up with the bomb, killing the whole group by not noticing the afflicted. Oh i have seen a group where basically the whole squad decided after some time that walking in front of dhuum and facetanking his scythe was a good idea...(notice, they walked in front of him, dhuum was facing the right direction, tank was doing a good job)

    Luckily i cleared Xera with static the only day i could play with them.
    The only clean run i had was the W1 run. I commanded it and required almost 30 min to full the group (i was asking for a 250li ping plus some more after them in rapid succesion, just to reduce the proabbility of a fake pinger)
    I will not go into details of the absoultely trash dps most pugs do (can't even reach 20 k personal dps which is not even that high), and the capability to NEVER stay in the right position.

    DISCLAIMER NO PUGS WERE FLAMED (even though they probably deserved it)
    I tend to be a cheerful person, i NEVER flamed a single person. If the group is not ok by my standards i just write, "sorry this is going nowhere" and leave.

    Just what is happening in pugs ? All the good players must be in statics obv.
    Now i understand why so many posts about "dps shaming" or "meta trash" or whatever complaint some people come up with for not wanting to invest 20 min of their life in gearing and learning a decent rotation and some mech on their main char.

    That's because raiders ask people who just want to start raiding for 250+ LI and KPs. How are they supposed to get that or learn if nobody wants them?
    It's the same as entry level job requiring 3+ years of experience.

    The same how every one else got their experience:

    • practice, training and preparation

    Nobod started raids with 250 LI and groups with all boss mechanics mastered. Most raiders had to learn fights with 9 other inexperienced people.

    Asking new players to start with practice and training runs which often are semi filled with experienced raiders is not to much.

    I know, practice and wiping on bosses sucks. To bad it's an integral part of raiding (and let's not get into progress raiding).

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AoTsuki.8675 said:
    That's because raiders ask people who just want to start raiding for 250+ LI and KPs. How are they supposed to get that or learn if nobody wants them?

    Raiders ask for LI/KP in order to avoid players that want to start raiding. Those that want to -start- raiding shouldn't be looking at experienced raid groups that want to clear the content, the other players aren't your friends and their time needs to be respected. If you want to learn there are three choices:
    1) Join a good/friendly guild that has a raid team. Chances are they will take you, at least on the easier bosses first so you get experience, or if one of the static players quits for whatever reason you can replace them. This is by far the best option, in the process you'll make some friends too.
    2) Join a raid training run. Similar to the above, only less personal and with higher chance of letting you go once you actually learn the encounters (to make room to train new people)
    3) Start your own group, advertise it as "anyone welcome" or "training run". Don't expect miracles but it might work out in the end. That's how lots of other raiders started anyway, by teaming up with other players in order to learn the content as a team, you will simply go through the same process instead of being spoon fed the loot/rewards.

    I'd go with 1) as the by far best option. 2) If you can't find a nice/friendly guild to join and want to train and 3) as the absolute last resort when all else fails.
    But under no circumstances go for
    4) Join an "experienced only" run by faking your LI/KP
    This is what gives Raids a bad name, behind all the so called toxicity and "unjust" kicks due to low dps, this is why it happens and raiders sometimes are trigger happy. This is also a prime reason why high numbers of KP+LI checks exist in the first place. To filter out frauds and cheats.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    99% of time is just needed 111111 and lots of mobs get killed....

    The game isn't only about open world farming.

    Well the story is great i must say, until u start figthing mobs 11111 dodge 11111 dodge 1111.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2018

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    99% of time is just needed 111111 and lots of mobs get killed....

    The game isn't only about open world farming.

    Well the story is great i must say, until u start figthing mobs 11111 dodge 11111 dodge 1111.

    gawd it takes forever to kill mobs with just 1111111, doing that is just counter productive, i use the same rotation in raids that i do out in the open world as its 1000 times faster to kill mobs with it.

    Also, i dunno what other mmos youve played, you mention them alot, but(im taking a guess here) im assuming they are "asian" mmos? if so those are often far more difficult than western mmos. ive only played western ones and GW2 is pretty average in difficulty compared to others, especially if you power level like i do and are over leveled by far when you go into the next higher zone.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2018

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    99% of time is just needed 111111 and lots of mobs get killed....

    The game isn't only about open world farming.

    Well the story is great i must say, until u start figthing mobs 11111 dodge 11111 dodge 1111.

    gawd it takes forever to kill mobs with just 1111111, doing that is just counter productive, i use the same rotation in raids that i do out in the open world as its 1000 times faster to kill mobs with it.

    Well that actually depends wich toon im playin, my condi renegade drops huge stack of torment just by 1111 :} dont need anything else.
    For most mobs in this game AA chain does the trick since its cleave or aoe based it has condis, i use the other skills more deppending the situation im in.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Dante.1763 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    99% of time is just needed 111111 and lots of mobs get killed....

    The game isn't only about open world farming.

    Well the story is great i must say, until u start figthing mobs 11111 dodge 11111 dodge 1111.

    gawd it takes forever to kill mobs with just 1111111, doing that is just counter productive, i use the same rotation in raids that i do out in the open world as its 1000 times faster to kill mobs with it.

    Well that actually depends wich toon im playin, my condi renegade drops huge stack of torment just by 1111 :} dont need anything else.

    Ah, well thats understandable then, my Condi SB is the same, but ive been running that build set up with SB since launch. Its boring, but easy thankfully(who i play when i dont want to try.) Ele in open world is way harder as everything can kill you in one or two hits and you cant really return the favor(full zerker S/D) so spamming one will just get one killed.

    Ember Wandertooth(SB), Lucina Fallenflame(Weaver), Kianda Redpaw(Guardian), Kingslayer, Light in the Dark.
    Why Guild Wars is called Guild Wars

  • You thought it was bad then. You should see how it is now with the chrono nerf. Unbearable and yet they still try to do the same old strats because they dont know any better and are lost without the new snocrows update.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    99% of time is just needed 111111 and lots of mobs get killed....

    The game isn't only about open world farming.

    Well the story is great i must say, until u start figthing mobs 11111 dodge 11111 dodge 1111.

    Have you ever tried fighting mobs in high level fractals or raids? or even the ls story? using 1111 dodge there won't do you any good but I get your point, the open world mobs of the core game are really easy but they are designed to be like this.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    99% of time is just needed 111111 and lots of mobs get killed....

    The game isn't only about open world farming.

    Well the story is great i must say, until u start figthing mobs 11111 dodge 11111 dodge 1111.

    Have you ever tried fighting mobs in high level fractals or raids? or even the ls story? using 1111 dodge there won't do you any good but I get your point, the open world mobs of the core game are really easy but they are designed to be like this.

    Ohh yeah, i totally ment core mobs...

    Mobs that are based on the races, like thieves, centaurs etc etc, should at least do condi and remove condi, ttry to evade etc.

2>
©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.