Spellbreakers aren't doing their job and it's hurting the entire meta

Right from the onset it was very clear that Spellbreaker was primarily orientated towards being a spec that did very well in PvP, focusing especially on hating boon heavy builds which were rampant during the last few days of Heart of Thorns's ranked meta. Heck in it's initial introduction video during Path of Fire's announcement

So it stands to reason then that in a meta where so many classes are just rolling around loaded with boons(Boonbeasts, Holosmiths, and Chaos Mirages in particular), that Spellbreaker should be thriving as an anti-meta counter build. After all, Spellbreaker is supposed to thrive against builds where it can rip boons from enemies.

But that's not what we see. Spellbreakers are doing okay now, they have a solid viable build, but they're not interacting with the larger meta in a way that's supposed to discourage and punish boon heavy builds like the ones we see dominating currently.

This is why I believe a few very specific Spellbreaker, traits, utilities and dagger skills that hate on boons should be buffed and reworked to handle this meta.

Loss Aversion:
Loss Aversion is an interesting trait and some minor tweaks could really allow it to interact with the meta in a lot of interesting ways, but it's damage is woefully underpowered in SPvP. While PvE loss aversion received a serious damage buff, PvP's Loss Aversion was actually nerfed. Loss Aversion's damage and multipliers should be buffed considerably higher to punish overly boon heavy builds, but not punish builds only rolling around in 1 or 2 boons. It needs to be at a point where builds that are rolling around with tons and tons of boons feel seriously threatened and punished facing a Spellbreaker with Loss Aversion, while builds that don't have lots of boons have the advantage against Spellbreakers.

I recommend keep it's initial damage low, but add an exponential multiplier where the more boons removed simultaneously the higher and higher it's damage becomes so it's very specifically punishing builds maintaining 3-8 boons at a time like Boonbeasts, Holosmiths, and Chaos Mirages. That way builds where the Spellbreaker is able to consistently remove 3 boons at a time are seriously punished, but builds only running around with 1 or 2 boons aren't particularly threatened.

My proposed change to Loss Aversion would look something like this:

Removing boons from a foe deals damage and gives you adrenaline. Deal More Damage the more boons are removed simultaneously.Damage: 53 (0.2)2 Boons: 220 (.7)3 Boons: 758 (2.1)Adrenaline: 2Cannot Critical HitUnblockable

Breaching Strike:While I have issues with Breaching Strike and Aura Slicer having too similar animations, it's damage should be buffed up to PvE levels in addition to removing a third boon and given an animation that's more unique from Aura Slicer.

Break Enchantments:I think the 3 boons removed and the cooldown are in a great spot. But the damage and multiplier should be unnerfed to PvE levels.

Winds of Disenchantment:Winds of Disenchantment should have it's boon removal interval unnerfed and rebalanced. Originally it lasted 10 seconds and removed a boon every 0.5 seconds. It's duration should be buffed up to 9 seconds for the field, and it should removed 3 boons every 1.5 seconds adding up to potentially 12 boons removed if the enemy is trapped in the field the full duration. This would also synergize with my proposed changed to Loss Aversion, making it pressure and punish builds running around with lots of boons simultaneously while leaving builds with less boons considerably less threatened. I understand the nerfs to this skill were important for World vs. World but it was a niche utility in SPvP already before the nerfs and now it's a completely dead elite skill. It's cooldown could potentially go down as well to 72 Seconds similar to Rampage.

I think the past year and a half of nerfing Spellbreaker's boon removal capabilities were overall the wrong direct to take the elite specialization. The lack of a serious threatening counter to boon heavy builds is a big reason why boon heavy builds are running rampant; There's no counter to punish that sort of game play anymore. While looking at and potentially nerfing certain boon heavy builds might be important, just as important of a variable in the balancing decision should be what counters exist to this sort of game play and are they performing up to task.

These traits and utility changes are also important because if they're once again buffed to being worth using in certain match ups they'll be forced certain sacrifices to their sustain utilities like Signet of Stamina, Shake it Off, or their disengage potential with Bull's Charge and Sword, or their Damage and CC by potentially not taking Rampage. This would allow for more build diversity, choice and flexibility depending on what the meta builds they'll potentially be facing as well as rewarding how well they can predict their opponents set up.

while i agree that classes like holo or boonbeast are nearly immortal without boonhate in your team.e.g. since all necromancer skills/traits that had dmg AND boonhate got nerfed dmg wise.i think you can decide for having boonhate OR dmg. anet will not create skills that have both like you suggested.

and since warrior dmg is already massive i think break enchantment is fine. anet should improve boonhate on trait enchantment collapse by increasing the radius of the effect to 360-600 to give it a better Impact by hitting opponents in fights even when opponents are not directly at your position and increasing boons removed to 2.

@Zero.3871 said:while i agree that classes like holo or boonbeast are nearly immortal without boonhate in your team.e.g. since all necromancer skills/traits that had dmg AND boonhate got nerfed dmg wise.i think you can decide for having boonhate OR dmg. anet will not create skills that have both like you suggested.

and since warrior dmg is already massive i think break enchantment is fine. anet should improve boonhate on trait enchantment collapse by increasing the radius of the effect to 360-600 to give it a better Impact by hitting opponents in fights even when opponents are not directly at your position and increasing boons removed to 2.

If you incentivize Break Enchantments and Winds to be worth picking over with Bulls Charge and Rampage against boon heavy builds you've actually seriously impacted the value of Peak Performance and their damage as a result, which will either push them back towards the Defense tree, or they sacrifice either Shake It Off or Signet of Stamina and you've forced them to sacrifice some survivability instead.

i think nerfing holo,boonbeast and Chaos Mirages is way better than buffing warrior againwarrior is not the only profession that have a hard time against them you know

@DragonFury.6243 said:i think nerfing holo,boonbeast and Chaos Mirages is way better than buffing warrior againwarrior is not the only profession that have a hard time against them you know

It's not about warrior having a hard time against these builds, its that countering these types of builds is Spellbreaker's raison d'etre. These types of builds should be its easiest match ups.

I'm fine with Spellbreaker decimating high boon uptime builds as long as its damage modifiers only ramp its damage up against builds that pump out those boons and keep it relatively neutral vs anything less boon heavy, as is the theme with your Loss Aversion changes. having boon removal skills damage you exponentially more after removing 4+ boons at once seems like a good direction on paper, but care needs to be exercised so that punishing damage doesnt seep down or allow itself to be gimmicked down to non boontanks.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say I like this idea in general. I wish more classes had specs that severely punished a class for overusing one or two particular facets of the game, but did mediocre damage vs everything else. Then people might rein their builds in for fear of running into a counter that could erase their HP with a rotation that preyed specifically on one kind of stacking.

I.... Think they tried to do this with dragonhunter maybe? Hm.

Ehm....Spellbreakers don't use boon-stripping builds because it's not enough. When you contend with Soulbeasts, Chronos and Firebrands, one warrior stripping boons ain't going to cut it. CC/lockdown type builds have more of an impact, especially when fighting on point and in team-fights. Plus in order for boon-strippers to be useful, you'd have to have boon-givers present! That's not always the case.

So "hurting the meta" is it? Well...good! I'm fine just chain-stunning boon-givers so they don't get to apply their boons in the first place. Don't get mad at warriors for not conforming to the "meta", get mad at the powercreep that has infested this game, which this boon meta is a part of.

war build used to boon strip before they noticed that running a damage build with megabane tether and perma 25 might is way stronger than boon strip. dead bodies won't generate boons

Perhaps lost aversion should give unique boon (+3% per boon stripped, 5s duration, maximum 15%) per boon stripped?

In this case the damage increase will be punishing for PvP, while it can be tuned to 4% per boon, 10s duration and max 20% in PvE so this trait is a good damage modifier in both modes (eg fractals).

@mortrialus.3062 what the devs should do is the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. Instead of buffing warrior boon strip the devs should nerf builds with boon spam.

We want to reduce not increase powercreep.

@otto.5684 said:@mortrialus.3062 what the devs should do is the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. Instead of buffing warrior boon strip the devs should nerf builds with boon spam.

We want to reduce not increase powercreep.

Is it really power creep if you're mostly unnerfing stuff back to their prenerf state?

@UBcktieDL.5318 said:war build used to boon strip before they noticed that running a damage build with megabane tether and perma 25 might is way stronger than boon strip. dead bodies won't generate boonsActually it was when Full Counter's damage was nerfed to make Revenge Counter a completely undesirable trait compared to Magebane Tether and when pretty much every part of Spellbreaker's Boonhate kit was heavily nerfed.

Hey Mort,

Buildcrafter here. Spellbreaker can boon harass just fine (technically). But they need to use hammer, mace and to a extent daggers to do it. The traits aren't the problem. In fact, I'd say they are just fine. The problem is with the weapons I named. Hammer still feels clunky and because of that, it won't make it into meta. Same thing with mace, but its much worse. Daggers are just over all weak, except wastrel's ruin. Which hits like a truck. The meta uses greatsword and dagger. GS can't never be good for removing boons since it lacks interrupts. You do realize that spellbreakers have dispelling force minor trait right? And that dispelling force syncs enchantment collapse right? Making it so you remove 2 boons each time you knockdown, knockback, stun, daze and launch right? (If you use sigil of absorption then its 3 boons.) Only two weapons really do that well. Once again, hammer and mace.

Anet needs to overhaul hammer and maces and then you will see more spellbreakers being used to remove boons. While you can do that already, you lose a lot doing so. You kind of become one dimensional in many ways. So I can understand why its not popular.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@otto.5684 said:@mortrialus.3062 what the devs should do is the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. Instead of buffing warrior boon strip the devs should nerf builds with boon spam.

We want to reduce not increase powercreep.

@UBcktieDL.5318 said:war build used to boon strip before they noticed that running a damage build with megabane tether and perma 25 might is way stronger than boon strip. dead bodies won't generate boonsActually it was when Full Counter's damage was nerfed to make Revenge Counter a completely undesirable trait compared to Magebane Tether and when pretty much every part of Spellbreaker's Boonhate kit was heavily nerfed.

Yes it is power creep if it was outperforming at the pre nerf level. A skill does not have to be “brand new” or never nerfed before, that buffing it would not result power creep. They are not mutually exclusive.

I like the op suggestion, but sadly it won't stick in GW2.Spellbreaker and Scourge were supposed to be the counters to the hyper boon meta.But the players instead of learning and adapting, started ranting. And Arena Net, instead of keeping their direction, did what all big companies do nowadays: They cowered in face of the mob, and nerfed those classes. So now you have two classes that don't do their job as well as they should, and the same problem of rampant boons.And it will not likely be any different, ever, as long as the "pvp" community is less interested in building for proper pvp, and more interested in just getting it over with to get their pips, that vocal community that is unwilling to adapt and improve, and move the meta forward, is always going to dictate what happens.

@otto.5684 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@otto.5684 said:@mortrialus.3062 what the devs should do is the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. Instead of buffing warrior boon strip the devs should nerf builds with boon spam.

We want to reduce not increase powercreep.

@UBcktieDL.5318 said:war build used to boon strip before they noticed that running a damage build with megabane tether and perma 25 might is way stronger than boon strip. dead bodies won't generate boonsActually it was when Full Counter's damage was nerfed to make Revenge Counter a completely undesirable trait compared to Magebane Tether and when pretty much every part of Spellbreaker's Boonhate kit was heavily nerfed.

The boonhate was never what was putting Spellbreaker over the top. It was their defensive rotation and perfect mix of sustain and damage.

Since everyone has boons (even if it they don't have them at passive Soulbeast levels), buffing Loss Aversion will just slap multiple autoattack's worth of strikes onto basically every decent attack that Spellbreaker already has. It would also turn your buffed Winds of Disenchantment into a better Meteor Shower with half the cast time (on a class with free stability rather than staff ele). Everything else is just damage buffs on a class that already deals thousands of damage at will and can stall out against any class, and often against nearly every 2v1. Why would you do this? This is no better than other instances of clamoring for stability or evade to be slapped onto random utilities, traits and weapon skills because "please, help, I'm not effective enough."

It just makes forces all other opponents to play even more passively and it makes the user of these buffs think even less about how they approach any given fight than they do now.

@"Swagg.9236" said:Since everyone has boons (even if it they don't have them at passive Soulbeast levels), buffing Loss Aversion will just slap multiple autoattack's worth of strikes onto basically every decent attack that Spellbreaker already has. It would also turn your buffed Winds of Disenchantment into a better Meteor Shower with half the cast time (on a class with free stability rather than staff ele). Everything else is just damage buffs on a class that already deals thousands of damage at will and can stall out against any class, and often against nearly every 2v1. Why would you do this? This is no better than other instances of clamoring for stability or evade to be slapped onto random utilities, traits and weapon skills because "please, help, I'm not effective enough."

It just makes forces all other opponents to play even more passively and it makes the user of these buffs think even less about how they approach any given fight than they do now.

First of all, I don't main Spellbreaker. In fact I main one of the builds that would be most directly countered by my own suggestions for Spellbreaker.

I haven't noticed spellbreakers hitting hard at all post patch except while in Rampage which is easy enough to play around, quite frankly.

My suggested buff to Loss Aversion only punishes builds consistently maintaining around with 3 or more boons at once for large portions of the fight and no, not every build does that. Just for example, Mirage's can swap from the Chaos Traitline to the Illusions trait line and they'll mostly have 1-2 boons with the occasionally burst of three with Chaos Storm and Chaos Armor on fairly hefty cooldowns as far as weapon skills go. Actual build decisions and counter play based on what match ups you're expecting.

I suggest this because:

1. I like classes and elite specs having well defined rolls and strengths. Spellbreaker's defining feature alongside Full Counter is it's boonhate capacity, which has been largely abandoned and now everyone is just running boonspam builds.
2. I enjoyed fighting Dagger+Shield Spellbreakers much more than the really flighty Sword+Shield variants that are meta now.
3. I think building in dedicated counters is just as important of a factor in balancing as looking around at things that should be nerfed or buffed. Spellbreaker should hard counter boon heavy builds just on the conceptual level. It doesn't.

@"mortrialus.3062" said:

3. I think building in dedicated counters is just as important of a factor in balancing as looking around at things that should be nerfed or buffed. Spellbreaker should hard counter boon heavy builds just on the conceptual level. It doesn't.

It already does.

@Aza.2105 said:

@"mortrialus.3062" said:

3. I think building in dedicated counters is just as important of a factor in balancing as looking around at things that should be nerfed or buffed. Spellbreaker should hard counter boon heavy builds just on the conceptual level. It doesn't.

I think if that was the case we'd see more of them in ranked farming Boonbeasts.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

3. I think building in dedicated counters is just as important of a factor in balancing as looking around at things that should be nerfed or buffed. Spellbreaker should hard counter boon heavy builds just on the conceptual level. It doesn't.

No that isn't true. Most players are meta followers instead of being buildcrafters. Anything outside of what is considered good they will not try, because they do not experiment. I tend to discover meta builds long before they are acceptable just by experimenting. I just do not publicize my results because I'm always curious to see when players will catch on. Everytime Anet launches a balance patch, I spend weeks trying all the changes for the classes I play in order to discover new possibilities.

Hammer spellbreaker counters boonbeast very well btw. It has other inherit weaknesses that a GS spellbreaker does not and in turn changes spellbreakers perceived role in conquest.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Swagg.9236" said:Since everyone has boons (even if it they don't have them at passive Soulbeast levels), buffing Loss Aversion will just slap multiple autoattack's worth of strikes onto basically every decent attack that Spellbreaker already has. It would also turn your buffed Winds of Disenchantment into a better Meteor Shower with half the cast time (on a class with free stability rather than staff ele). Everything else is just damage buffs on a class that already deals thousands of damage at will and can stall out against any class, and often against nearly every 2v1. Why would you do this? This is no better than other instances of clamoring for stability or evade to be slapped onto random utilities, traits and weapon skills because "please, help, I'm not effective enough."

It just makes forces all other opponents to play even more passively and it makes the user of these buffs think even less about how they approach any given fight than they do now.

That doesn't really matter, but OK.

I haven't noticed spellbreakers hitting hard at all post patch except while in Rampage which is easy enough to play around, quite frankly.

They will still strike no-toughness targets for thousands of damage, and honestly, if Firebrand or Scrapper are any proof, sometimes it doesn't really matter if you deal damage or not just so long as you survive forever, which Spellbreaker can do while also threatening with damage.

My suggested buff to Loss Aversion only punishes builds consistently maintaining around with 3 or more boons at once for large portions of the fight and no, not every build does that. Just for example, Mirage's can swap from the Chaos Traitline to the Illusions trait line and they'll mostly have 1-2 boons with the occasionally burst of three with Chaos Storm and Chaos Armor on fairly hefty cooldowns as far as weapon skills go. Actual build decisions and counter play based on what match ups you're expecting.

Changing trait lines is one way to counterplay, but I don't think anyone is going to give up infinite immobilize or free boons just to fight against a target that is probably not really going to hit them that often anyway. Besides, while counter-picks aren't at all some alien, underhanded or uncommon thing, in a game in which it's so easy to land damage (like GW2), counter-picks are more like full hard counters rather than just a wild card option that might open the door to a victory. Encouraging people to rely on passives or change weapons/utilities is going to either damage opponent playstyles in Spellbreaker match-ups or just outright destroy Spellbreaker by re-modeling some builds in order to smash it to pieces. You're doing a lot more damage than good in this scenario (and it's the way that most balancing has been done up to this point).

1. I like classes and elite specs having well defined rolls and strengths. Spellbreaker's defining feature alongside Full Counter is it's boonhate capacity, which has been largely abandoned and now everyone is just running boonspam builds.

It doesn't matter what something's "defined role" is so long as damage negation remains all powerful. This is why there are so few real playstyles or unexpected actions from meta builds: they all mostly do the same thing and rely on mostly the same mechanics. By giving Spellbreaker more damage and more boonhate, you're just ultimately increasing its damage. It's not really a role-changer or role-definer, you're just amping up its already fundamental role as a DPS.

Yeah, sure, obviously a Soulbeast will feel the effects of these changes, but everyone else will also feel the effects of this change, and probably to an even greater degree than the Soulbeasts. That's why it's not a dedicated hard counter, but just a generic DPS class.

2. I enjoyed fighting Dagger+Shield Spellbreakers much more than the really flighty Sword+Shield variants that are meta now.

I mean, OK. That's really just an irrelevant opinion, but I get it.

3. I think building in dedicated counters is just as important of a factor in balancing as looking around at things that should be nerfed or buffed. Spellbreaker should hard counter boon heavy builds just on the conceptual level. It doesn't.

Again, a "dedicated counter" means that you're dooming a spec to basically be only good at killing a certain thing while simultaneously making it prey for anything against which it doesn't deal well. In a game which doesn't let you switch skills or specs or anything after it begins, why would you encourage something like this? Why would you make an entire match incredibly unfun and unengaging for at least 1 person on the field (probably more because now one team has to deal with being in an awkward X vs (X+1) situation depending on who they find on a point) just because of what somebody else did before the match even began?

Dedicated counters outside of turn-based situations are mostly super cancerous and nobody likes dealing with them because they warp the gravity of an entire match due to how everyone has to effectively play around them. If there isn't enough flexibility in the gameplay (as is such the case with GW2), it just means that someone isn't going to have any fun for an entire match, and that person's team is going to suffer for it.

If defense was more viable maybe we'd see more boonstrip from Spellbreakers because they'd have more time to stay in fights and they'd probably start running dagger+shield again. Right now playing Spellbreaker is just stacking damage modifiers, and it definitely doesn't feel like a boonhate class. I think your suggestions to loss aversion are pretty fair and lean more towards the concepts that were in mind when designing the class.

@Swagg.9236 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Swagg.9236 said:Since everyone has boons (even if it they don't have them at passive Soulbeast levels), buffing Loss Aversion will just slap multiple autoattack's worth of strikes onto basically every decent attack that Spellbreaker already has. It would also turn your buffed Winds of Disenchantment into a better Meteor Shower with half the cast time (on a class with free stability rather than staff ele). Everything else is just damage buffs on a class that already deals thousands of damage at will and can stall out against any class, and often against nearly every 2v1. Why would you do this? This is no better than other instances of clamoring for stability or evade to be slapped onto random utilities, traits and weapon skills because "please, help, I'm not effective enough."

It just makes forces all other opponents to play even more passively and it makes the user of these buffs think even less about how they approach any given fight than they do now.

I haven't noticed spellbreakers hitting hard at all post patch except while in Rampage which is easy enough to play around, quite frankly.

My proposed changes will have Spellbreakers hit boonless targets for less damage and boon heavy target for a lot more damage. Which is a fair trade off. Warriors are likely always going to hit fairly hard in this game by design. But it's generally balanced around how clear and obvious their tells are. Right now warriors are just stacking tons and tons of damage modifiers on and going straight at people, which to me is lot less interesting than how Spellbreakers have been in the past.

My proposed change to Loss Aversion would look something like this:

Removing boons from a foe deals damage and gives you adrenaline. Deal More Damage the more boons are removed simultaneously.Damage: 53 (0.2)2 Boons: 220 (.7)3 Boons: 758 (2.1)Adrenaline: 2Cannot Critical HitUnblockable

And maybe that Chaos Mirages and Boonbeasts deserve to get slapped in the face for several thousand damage.

and honestly, if Firebrand or Scrapper are any proof, sometimes it doesn't really matter if you deal damage or not just so long as you survive forever, which Spellbreaker can do while also threatening with damage.

Scrapper is fairly under represented right now. And as far as surviving really well is concerned, SD Weaver isn't exactly tearing up the charts at the moment either.So surviving forever on it's own exactly equating to great results. Firebrand's worth isn't in how well it survives but how well it allows others to survive and do damage safely.

My suggested buff to Loss Aversion only punishes builds consistently maintaining around with 3 or more boons at once for large portions of the fight and no, not every build does that. Just for example, Mirage's can swap from the Chaos Traitline to the Illusions trait line and they'll mostly have 1-2 boons with the occasionally burst of three with Chaos Storm and Chaos Armor on fairly hefty cooldowns as far as weapon skills go. Actual build decisions and counter play based on what match ups you're expecting.

At a certain point it can and does.

4 minutes, 16 seconds into this exact situation is brought up in this topic.

Heck I'm reminded of playing Pokemon during the X and Y era and one of favorite Pokemon that's consistently Overused, Volcarona, got pushed out of the meta for a while because of a hardcounter in the form of Talonflame whow as all the rage in that era. After Talonflame started to die down you started to see a lot more Volcaronas until it became top tier in usage again.

Besides, while counter-picks aren't at all some alien, underhanded or uncommon thing, in a game in which it's so easy to land damage (like GW2), counter-picks are more like full hard counters rather than just a wild card option that might open the door to a victory. Encouraging people to rely on passives or change weapons/utilities is going to either damage opponent playstyles in Spellbreaker match-ups or just outright destroy Spellbreaker by re-modeling some builds in order to smash it to pieces. You're doing a lot more damage than good in this scenario (and it's the way that most balancing has been done up to this point).

Yeah... I'm not seeing how unnerfing a few things and buffing the reward for boon hate is going to destroy Spellbreaker, especially when the proposed buffs are more in line with Spellbreaker's mission statement as an elite specialization. This is a huge leap in logic and bizarrely apocalyptic.

1. I like classes and elite specs having well defined rolls and strengths. Spellbreaker's defining feature alongside Full Counter is it's boonhate capacity, which has been largely abandoned and now everyone is just running boonspam builds.

No, elite specializations doing certain things well absolutely matters. People complained, for years that Power Reaper was very underwhelming and Reapers were run pretty much exclusively with condition variants. And I was among them, I wanted to see more power reapers. Eventually Anet finally hammered out a few things about the spec and we're finally for the first time in since it was released seeing a healthy amount of Power Reapers and seeing them do well. And it feels great and interesting. And it feels good seeing Scourges being long range condition dealers and corrupters like they were designed to be and very capable in their own right giving them both unique play styles and builds.

Now we all have problems with stealth on dodge, but if Deadeyes were primarily running around doing condition damage with duel daggers we would all be scratching out heads.

And that's kind of what Spellbreaker has become. It's like a condition reaper, or a dagger+dagger condition deadeye. Maybe not to that extreme but it feels like a huge part of the class identity is lost these days.

This is why there are so few real playstyles or unexpected actions from meta builds: they all mostly do the same thing and rely on mostly the same mechanics. By giving Spellbreaker more damage and more boonhate, you're just ultimately increasing its damage. It's not really a role-changer or role-definer, you're just amping up its already fundamental role as a DPS.Yeah, sure, obviously a Soulbeast will feel the effects of these changes, but everyone else will also feel the effects of this change, and probably to an even greater degree than the Soulbeasts. That's why it's not a dedicated hard counter, but just a generic DPS class.

Spellbreaker is not a DPS class. It's a very dedicated duelist and has been almost it's entire life. DPS would be something like Scourge, Core Guardian, Reaper, Herald, and Holosmith who are a bit less glued to sidenoding than Spellbreaker.

Also there are a lot of unique playstyles in conquest. The four main roles are Damage, Support, Roamers, and Duelists. Spellbreaker has been a dedicated duelist spec for almost it's entire life.

Yeah, I would be increasing it's damage in certain scenarios. Certain scenarios, when it can meet certain conditions. That would actually give it a more unique play style, with more interesting counter play. Maybe that boonbeast holds off on using that Consume Plasma and Call of the Wild until he's baited out the Spellbreaker's main Boon Hate skills and knows he's safe. Maybe Mirage thinks twice about where he's going to use that Chaos Storm.

A lot of classes have unique play styles and win conditions. Just think about how Core Guard just throws off conditions, and with contemplation of Purity can actually benefit from being hit with tons of conditions. Or how thieves are literally the fastest things alive. Or how Reaper and Scourge really want to be in the team fights.

2. I enjoyed fighting Dagger+Shield Spellbreakers much more than the really flighty Sword+Shield variants that are meta now.

3. I think building in dedicated counters is just as important of a factor in balancing as looking around at things that should be nerfed or buffed. Spellbreaker should hard counter boon heavy builds just on the conceptual level. It doesn't.

Dedicated Counter is a poor term on my part. By it's very nature, smarter play can allow players to over come poor match ups and even with my changes Spellbreaker wouldn't be a dedicated counter to any one thing, it would just shine more against playstyles that rely on lots of boons. But every build has things it will do better against and things it will do worse against. Your concerns about poor match ups is here. Already. Right now. It's a key part of PvP in every single competitive game ever made. It will never go away.

And the fun thing about my changes is that warriors of all stripes by their very design have clear obvious tells. You can avoid the Boonhate of my proposed buff to Breaching Strike by avoiding Breaching Strike. You can avoid the proposed buff to Winds of Disenchantment by just moving out of the Winds of Disenchantment.

I find you very incoherent. On one hand you decry the lack of uniqueness among builds. On the other hand you decry my attempts to make spellbreaker more unique.

Again, it was never the Boonhate that made Spellbreakers strong in the past. It was their defensive rotation and perfect mix of sustain and damage.

@Aza.2105 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

3. I think building in dedicated counters is just as important of a factor in balancing as looking around at things that should be nerfed or buffed. Spellbreaker should hard counter boon heavy builds just on the conceptual level. It doesn't.

That's actually really interesting. If hammer counters boonbeast, I have to imagine it makes you feel really ineffective against Mirage though.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

That's actually really interesting. If hammer counters boonbeast, I have to imagine it makes you feel really ineffective against Mirage though.

Correct. If you so happen to catch mirage however, it takes around two hits to kill them with hammer.

@Aza.2105 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

That's actually really interesting. If hammer counters boonbeast, I have to imagine it makes you feel really ineffective against Mirage though.

I've been playing a lot of Spellbreaker with Hm/Axe+Sh in WvW (I don't play PvP as much) and it's really powerful. Fierce blow sometimes hit for 5 digits on CC'ed targets and I'm not even running Merciless Hammer.

Problem is: It lack mobility to chase people, which means I cannot chase down a Mirage or a Sword thief. But PvP revolve in fighting around the objective so, I'm assuming the lack of mobility for someone who is suposed to be on a side node isn't a great deal as it is on WvW.