Align A.E.D with similar heals — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Align A.E.D with similar heals

Bashi.8902Bashi.8902 Member ✭✭
edited February 9, 2019 in PVP

Petition to bring aed in line with similar heals. At this point in time its overtuned as kitten. Yes you can play arround it we all know that but that doesnt justify the duration beeing twice as long as similar heals like defiant stance or glint heal. Even Rebound duration is lower and thats a kitten elite.
My suggestion. Make it 4 seconds duration. Its more then enough for a emergency heal which a skilled player can play arround. At the moment a engi can literally pop it at 60% hp and still be fine because it lasts way to long.

Comments

  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭

    The mechanic is hugely different to Defiant Stance or Glint Heal, since you can still burst the Engi down to literally 1% and be fine. 4s would be underwhelming. I don't even run it in its current state since I find it to easily countered and don't to waste my strongest GM trait on it to make it viable.
    Rebound is arguably lackluster, but that doesn't mean AED should be too.

    Falásya / Caissech

  • AED is fine imo. I don't even think it's THAT common actually.

    I don't think the mechanic is really comparable to rev and war heals. They can be used any time to get 4 seconds of breathing space (which is crucial to get CD-s back, etc.) PLUS either reset the fight by being fully healed or getting rid of hard focus.

    With AED you can just keep hard focusing the engi and he will most likely die in 1-2 seconds after trigger anyway. At least that's my experience. There is absolutely no 'window period'.

    just my 2 cents

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I mean I can see why someone might complain about it, it's 8s where you can't kill the engineer or they get a massive heal, cleanse and shocking aura (yes I know it's traited) so it makes an escape as engineer much more likely or they can go ham with relative impunity.

    The thing is at the current state of ridiculously high damage I don't think it's a major issue as you can deal another 12k damage to them if they go aggressive thinking they're safe. Sure if damage is toned down it might be especially if Goldenboy Holosmith is still left with too much kit baseline.

    Though I think Healing Turret is probably the strongest heal in the game per class, it's a 5k heal + 1k regen + water field and can blast itself (+1.3k) and Engineer has been dumbed down enough you can get a second combo for another 1.3k and it cleanses 2 conditions from all allies.

    That's usually an 8.5k heal with 2 conditions cleansed every 20s (more likely every 23-24 due to overcharge) with a toolbelt skill for a bit more healing in a pinch, it's quite frankly massively overloaded baseline with what engineer has. There's not a lot of 20s CD heals that come close to this much utility baseline where most have to trait to compete in healing per cool down and aren't AoE. Don't just take what I say as fact, check them out on the wiki.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_skill

  • Hoodie.1045Hoodie.1045 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The reason why not a lot of engineers don't like using A.E.D. is that it's a healing skill that relies on your enemy dealing damage so it can heal you to its fullest potential. It's a stupid design choice because anyone can see the A.E.D. icon below your health bar and just kite you until it ends. Once it ends, the healing is gone and it barely heals you to the point that you can continue to fight.

    Reducing the duration to 4 seconds may seem like a nice idea, but that would also make it worse as players can kite you for 4 seconds instead of 5 seconds and it won't heal you as much, wasting your healing skill and having to wait 30 seconds (24 seconds if using Gadgeteer) to heal yourself again. Not to mention that it only removes damaging conditions, compared to the healing turret which removes 2 conditions of any type.

  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭

    All I think AED needs is a more obvious telegraph, Infused Light has a huge blue glow around the revenant indicating "Don't attack this person" whilst AED doesn't really have something like that

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭

    ha, funny saw a holo yesterday revived himself 20 times in game with that. was very frustrating. i think aed is not the Problem in General. it is more like if you stop hitting holo because of aed, its like 5 secs of invul. in that time he can EZ Escape from every fight because of his massive mobility.
    if you still hit him he revive with 60% of life. and its already really hard to bring a holo down to 0 hp. doing it twice is nearly impossible in an even number fight. and even than he still can use Elixier s and boots to come out. so it is more the Overall set of utilities of holos that is problematic.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thing is if damage goes down, lets say by 25% it means that people do less damage.

    This then makes AED a lot less certain that it will proc as people are better able to bring you down to 1-2k health, kite then kill when AED wears off.

    Maybe 8s traited is a bit long and instead of more duration could be a bigger heal on the trait but as I said earlier in the meta of high damage it's not a major issue imo and if damage is toned down AED would lose some of it's viability so....maybe address the power creep first?

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭

    Healing turret is still better. Plus A.E.D as mentioned above is easy to counter so I wouldn't worry about it.

  • @Hoodie.1045 said:
    The reason why not a lot of engineers don't like using A.E.D. is that it's a healing skill that relies on your enemy dealing damage so it can heal you to its fullest potential. It's a stupid design choice because anyone can see the A.E.D. icon below your health bar and just kite you until it ends. Once it ends, the healing is gone and it barely heals you to the point that you can continue to fight.

    Thing is, it's a terrible idea to wait out AED, if he is out of CDs you will just burst his HP down again in no more than 3 seconds.

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2019

    It seems like one of those heals like infused light or defiant stance meant to punish spam but with the 8 second duration it often feels like it is more worthwhile to just brute force your way through by giving them the big heal and just doing more damage rather than waiting so long for it to go away. This is especially true since the base healing without taking lethal damage is still a semi respectable 4k, for a difference of 8k so as long as you can do more than like 1k DPS to the engi (very little especially in a team fight) during those 8 seconds it is more efficient to just damage through it. Wouldn't say it is op per say, but it definitely feels like it isn't working in practice as it is meant to. I should add though that because there are situations where it is sometimes better to brute force your way through it, and sometimes it is better to hold off makes it one of the highest skill cap heal skills in the game for both the engi and the people trying to kill the engi as the choice isn't as straightforward as it is for other heals, which is nice.

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭

    I've never seen a good player complain about AED... That said, this must be a troll thread, or you don't know how easy it is to counter by not bursting the guy.

    Literally, you know if the guy is traited for it because not only doe she channel it while not receiving any heals, but he receives shocking aura, which doesn't help him trigger his heal.

    Like I said, just counter it by not bursting him. OR, if you have an ally, just burst through his health. It's not that hard.

  • @Mbelch.9028 said:
    I've never seen a good player complain about AED... That said, this must be a troll thread, or you don't know how easy it is to counter by not bursting the guy.

    Literally, you know if the guy is traited for it because not only doe she channel it while not receiving any heals, but he receives shocking aura, which doesn't help him trigger his heal.

    Like I said, just counter it by not bursting him. OR, if you have an ally, just burst through his health. It's not that hard.

    I know that u can just "not burst him" but 8 seconds is still a respectable time period especially in a 1v1 scenario where if u get him to say 10% hp with the current damage values sneezing would proc it meanwhile he can keep pressure up. And its also not that simple to just "kite it" because lets be real here if u play aed holo u probably have rocket boots equipped so u have to resort to jumping puzzles at least and also 100% sure give up the node ur on. All that from a healing skill.

  • uh it lasts 5 seconds? whats the problem here? or just a troll post.

    pew~

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bashi.8902 said:

    @Mbelch.9028 said:
    I've never seen a good player complain about AED... That said, this must be a troll thread, or you don't know how easy it is to counter by not bursting the guy.

    Literally, you know if the guy is traited for it because not only doe she channel it while not receiving any heals, but he receives shocking aura, which doesn't help him trigger his heal.

    Like I said, just counter it by not bursting him. OR, if you have an ally, just burst through his health. It's not that hard.

    I know that u can just "not burst him" but 8 seconds is still a respectable time period especially in a 1v1 scenario where if u get him to say 10% hp with the current damage values sneezing would proc it meanwhile he can keep pressure up. And its also not that simple to just "kite it" because lets be real here if u play aed holo u probably have rocket boots equipped so u have to resort to jumping puzzles at least and also 100% sure give up the node ur on. All that from a healing skill.

    Most engineers have to use AED before they're being bursted, so let's say at 40% HP. During that 8 seconds, use conditions like immob, poison, chill or even knockbacks to both drain his HP and control where he is.

    By keeping him at distance and or locked down, you can just "sneeze" on him as soon as he gets the measly 4k heal that you receive when AED does go off without proccing the 12k heal.

    It's not hard, and if you're complaining about to an AED engi, I'm sorry, you need to keep working at your gameplay.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    uh it lasts 5 seconds? whats the problem here? or just a troll post.

    Troll post, mostly, although it does last 8S when traited.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2019

    @Hoodie.1045 said:
    The reason why not a lot of engineers don't like using A.E.D. is that it's a healing skill that relies on your enemy dealing damage so it can heal you to its fullest potential. It's a stupid design choice because anyone can see the A.E.D. icon below your health bar and just kite you until it ends. Once it ends, the healing is gone and it barely heals you to the point that you can continue to fight.

    It also involves a lot of guesswork. You have to guess when the enemy will do enough damage to trigger the full heal. This is why most engineers don't take it -- you have to very carefully guess when you can heal, otherwise you used a pretty bad heal instead of the more reliable Healing Turret.

    This means you need to activate it when you're low on health already, which is generally a big risk because you could get stunlocked out of using it.

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  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    im very fond of gadgets (aed+rocket boots), combining them indeed feels like 8 sec invul sometimes but the sacfrice is big imo as well
    you lose strong gm trait and powerful utility in water turret and photon wall, elixir s or u depending to your liking but it means big drop in dmg and sustain in general.
    don't be fooled by the big burst heal of 12k, it's not a lot considering you don't really have other forms of condi cleanse, no protection so dont be scared to trigger the aed just safe your burst and preferably stability. They are mostly forced away if it triggers or not, that makes it a weaker duelist and weak on point in general but obviously a lot more mobile

    not problematic i think so i disagree the nerf suggestion

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    uh it lasts 5 seconds? whats the problem here? or just a troll post.

    There's a trait...

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2019

    Can't tell if troll....

    In case it's not: Tons of counter play, it functions differently than the named counterparts. And oml the things bads complain about.

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A.E.D. only kind of sucks if you play condi. While with Rev you can 100% count on the Glint Damage Reversal being a factor in the fight and can play appropriately, A.E.D. will always catch you off guard.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    All I think AED needs is a more obvious telegraph, Infused Light has a huge blue glow around the revenant indicating "Don't attack this person" whilst AED doesn't really have something like that

    AED can self proc though by overheating on Holo.

    Its the only way I use AED anyway but took a lot of practice to pull off right, I honestly didn't think anyone used this heal anyway.. It's usually too reliant on enemies being silly and bursting you while its up.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
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  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    All I think AED needs is a more obvious telegraph, Infused Light has a huge blue glow around the revenant indicating "Don't attack this person" whilst AED doesn't really have something like that

    AED can self proc though by overheating on Holo.

    Its the only way I use AED anyway but took a lot of practice to pull off right, I honestly didn't think anyone used this heal anyway.. It's usually too reliant on enemies being silly and bursting you while its up.

    Not sure I missed something here but why did you quote me?

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    All I think AED needs is a more obvious telegraph, Infused Light has a huge blue glow around the revenant indicating "Don't attack this person" whilst AED doesn't really have something like that

    AED can self proc though by overheating on Holo.

    Its the only way I use AED anyway but took a lot of practice to pull off right, I honestly didn't think anyone used this heal anyway.. It's usually too reliant on enemies being silly and bursting you while its up.

    Not sure I missed something here but why did you quote me?

    Infused light has a telegraph but it doesn't have an ability to self inflict damage like Holo can.
    So even if you gave it a huge tell, it probably wouldn't make much difference. Players could work around it.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    PvP forum members must be making a new football oval judging by the way they move the goalposts of every post.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    All I think AED needs is a more obvious telegraph, Infused Light has a huge blue glow around the revenant indicating "Don't attack this person" whilst AED doesn't really have something like that

    AED can self proc though by overheating on Holo.

    Its the only way I use AED anyway but took a lot of practice to pull off right, I honestly didn't think anyone used this heal anyway.. It's usually too reliant on enemies being silly and bursting you while its up.

    Not sure I missed something here but why did you quote me?

    Infused light has a telegraph but it doesn't have an ability to self inflict damage like Holo can.
    So even if you gave it a huge tell, it probably wouldn't make much difference. Players could work around it.

    Ah alright I understand what you're trying to say, even though it can be triggered with overheat, I still think it needs a good telegraph. It's only fair.

  • toxic.3648toxic.3648 Member ✭✭
    edited February 9, 2019

    the engi is spaking blue lightning arcs from 2 wristbans when its in effect. sure the arcs could be bigger but its visible none the less> @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    All I think AED needs is a more obvious telegraph, Infused Light has a huge blue glow around the revenant indicating "Don't attack this person" whilst AED doesn't really have something like that

    AED can self proc though by overheating on Holo.

    Its the only way I use AED anyway but took a lot of practice to pull off right, I honestly didn't think anyone used this heal anyway.. It's usually too reliant on enemies being silly and bursting you while its up.

    Not sure I missed something here but why did you quote me?

    Infused light has a telegraph but it doesn't have an ability to self inflict damage like Holo can.
    So even if you gave it a huge tell, it probably wouldn't make much difference. Players could work around it.

    Ah alright I understand what you're trying to say, even though it can be triggered with overheat, I still think it needs a good telegraph. It's only fair.

    the engi is sparking blue lightning arcs from 2 wristbans when its in effect. sure the arcs could be bigger but its visible none the less

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2019

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    All I think AED needs is a more obvious telegraph, Infused Light has a huge blue glow around the revenant indicating "Don't attack this person" whilst AED doesn't really have something like that

    AED can self proc though by overheating on Holo.

    Its the only way I use AED anyway but took a lot of practice to pull off right, I honestly didn't think anyone used this heal anyway.. It's usually too reliant on enemies being silly and bursting you while its up.

    Not sure I missed something here but why did you quote me?

    Infused light has a telegraph but it doesn't have an ability to self inflict damage like Holo can.
    So even if you gave it a huge tell, it probably wouldn't make much difference. Players could work around it.

    Ah alright I understand what you're trying to say, even though it can be triggered with overheat, I still think it needs a good telegraph. It's only fair.

    AED behaves very differently from Defiant Stance and Infuse Light. It's extremely difficult to use right, and this makes it unreliable.

    Additionally, there is a very large telegraph -- the user rears their head up, then gets sparkling wristbands. If that's not obvious enough, the engineer will often purposely make more dangerous decisions than you might expect for their health.

    If you need to see what the tells are, I took some pictures:

    https://imgur.com/a/VfeIUqL

    The wristbands are somewhat subtle (especially given my infusions/legendaries), but if you missed the initial tell... a larger enduring tell would be rather odd given the weaknesses of the skill.


    Now if it inverted damage like other heals, I might be ok with that too. But I think a lot of people might cry foul.

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  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2019

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    All I think AED needs is a more obvious telegraph, Infused Light has a huge blue glow around the revenant indicating "Don't attack this person" whilst AED doesn't really have something like that

    AED can self proc though by overheating on Holo.

    Its the only way I use AED anyway but took a lot of practice to pull off right, I honestly didn't think anyone used this heal anyway.. It's usually too reliant on enemies being silly and bursting you while its up.

    Not sure I missed something here but why did you quote me?

    Infused light has a telegraph but it doesn't have an ability to self inflict damage like Holo can.
    So even if you gave it a huge tell, it probably wouldn't make much difference. Players could work around it.

    Ah alright I understand what you're trying to say, even though it can be triggered with overheat, I still think it needs a good telegraph. It's only fair.

    AED behaves very differently from Defiant Stance and Infuse Light. It's extremely difficult to use right, and this makes it unreliable.

    Additionally, there is a very large telegraph -- the user rears their head up, then gets sparkling wristbands. If that's not obvious enough, the engineer will often purposely make more dangerous decisions than you might expect for their health.

    If you need to see what the tells are, I took some pictures:

    https://imgur.com/a/VfeIUqL

    The wristbands are somewhat subtle (especially given my infusions/legendaries), but if you missed the initial tell... a larger enduring tell would be rather odd given the weaknesses of the skill.


    Now if it inverted damage like other heals, I might be ok with that too. But I think a lot of people might cry foul.

    In the clusterf*ck of effects that PoF brought this animation is completely invisible in a fight though

    AED is actually way better than Infused Light or w/e, because as soon people realize their damage is healing the enemy they'll just stow. Whilst AED gives no tell on your damage if your last blow is going to nearly full heal them.
    I'd trade Infused Light on my Revenant for AED any day.

    Also like someone mentioned above, AED can be triggered with overheating.

  • Snellibee.2761Snellibee.2761 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2019

    Don't mind this comment, I deleted because accidental double post

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Snellibee.2761 said:
    AED is actually way better than Infused Light or w/e, because as soon people realize their damage is healing the enemy they'll just stow. Whilst AED gives no tell on your damage if your last blow is going to nearly full heal them.
    I'd trade Infused Light on my Revenant for AED any day.

    Also like someone mentioned above, AED can be triggered with overheating.

    The only argument where A.E.D is better than Infuse Light is yours - where the opponent has no clue what it is or sees it being used.

    This game has a component of UI checking - every single player has to occasionally glance if the enemy has Stab, Aegis, Spectral Armor, A.E.D, and so forth before blowing their CC & load.

    I've used A.E.D myself and the vast majority of players are aware when it is used. Not to be rude but your whole argument is subjective reality stemming from a handicapped level of awareness.

    Also, using Overheat to proc A.E.D is something you should never do purposefully. If you use the 4k hit to proc A.E.D, great. The only problem is that you will take another 4k over time, and forfeit 6500+ healing from Heat Therapy, nullifying 86% of the 12,280 healing you just got, and killing your ability to fight back for the next little bit.

    It's better to not proc A.E.D than overheat, especially since if you were condied up you wouldn't need to overheat.

    Now you know!

    Does that apply if you trait for the aoe overheat damage?
    I wouldn't know, I have only 1 build for holo that I use for a game or 2 every month or so.

    If you trait for overheat damage you don't take the 4k direct damage from overheat. You still take the 4k damage over time, which could in theory be used to Proc A.E.D - and you don't forfeit your heat therapy when you have Photonic Blasting Module slotted.

    That trait has a small synergy with A.E.D actually. Normally that annoying guaranteed 4k DoT on you to HOPEFULLY nuke somebody for more than 4k is the worst part about that trait but it could be a useful handicap with A.E.D.

    Too bad that trait is very underpowered compared with Vent Exhaust, its PvE only right now

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  • I’ve been using AED as my main heal since HoT on a glass Engineer. It is a great heal in that it is clearly designed to benefit a glass cannon playstyle.

    As for tells, do you play with the sound on as well? It has a very clear audible tell that makes it easier to play around than the other heals you mention.

  • @Julius Seizure.4985 said:
    I’ve been using AED as my main heal since HoT on a glass Engineer. It is a great heal in that it is clearly designed to benefit a glass cannon playstyle.

    As for tells, do you play with the sound on as well? It has a very clear audible tell that makes it easier to play around than the other heals you mention.

    I think most people play PvP with music, so that would be hard to hear I guess

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