Upcoming Thief Changes - Discussion Topic

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:General• Exhaustion: This boon now stacks in duration up to 3 times.

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ThiefWe've been looking at ways to improve the pistol main-hand and dagger off-hand build for thieves. We wanted to give the weapon pair a little more lethality without improving other weapon sets or removing current utility, so we decided to go with the mechanic we used for Tow Line during the underwater update. This allows Shadow Strike to flip over to Repeater for a period of time. Additionally, the team has adjusted Unhindered Combatant so that exhaustion scales with the severity of the condition that was removed. Finally, we're reducing the duration of stealth for Silent Scope in competitive modes so that it is more of a brief respite in combat rather than a stealth upkeep trait.

• Sneak Attack: Increased the duration of bleeding that's applied by this skill from 4 seconds to 6 seconds.• Shadow Strike: This skill now grants access to Repeater for 4 seconds upon landing a successful melee hit.• Repeater: For builds that use a pistol in their main hand with no off-hand weapon, the damage of this skill has been increased by 20%. Striking a foe with this skill now applies 4 seconds of bleeding per hit.• Shadowstep: The window to use Shadow Return after using this skill has been increased from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. A tool tip has been added to show the window's duration.• Silent Scope: The duration of stealth that this trait grants has been reduced from 3 seconds to 1 second in PvP and WvW.• Unhindered Combatant: The duration of exhaustion that this trait applies when dodging is now 2 seconds if crippled is present, 3 seconds if chilled is present, and 4 seconds if immobilized is present. Exhaustion will now be applied when the dodge is initiated.• Lead Attacks: Fixed a bug with this trait that allowed players to enter combat with more stacks of the damage effect than intended.

Needed that balance patch for level 1 when you only get one weapon LOL.

I'm sorry but I just can't take the rest of it seriously with P/Nothing getting buffed.

TL:DR and my personal opinion:

The Good:

• Shadow Step actually got buffed. It's a small QoL change but that 5 seconds helps a lot when you do want that quick decap without the risk of "running out of time".
• Actual buffs to P/D. Specially Condi builds.

The Bad:

• WHAT IS THE GODAM POINT OF BUFFING REPEATER WITHOUT OFFHAND!!??
• UC could be a buff if, and only if, Exhaustion didn't stacked. Now that it stacks I can predict we getting absurds amount of exhaustion under heavy CC pressure;

The Fixes:

• We still get stealth on dodge, but now for an almost useless window of time. Well there is still enough time to cast a safe heal and DJ tough.
• Lead attack "bug" got fixed. As intended.

My final opinion:

In all due sincerity, this patch is more of another nerf than anything else. Who in the hell uses P/D?My biggest let down is that they write that Off hand Pistol and Dagger are getting buffs but in the end they DONT EVEN TOUCH off hand Dagger and Pistol skill. This basically means that D/D is still useless despite what was written down (massive letdown).

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Needed that balance patch for level 1 when you only get one weapon LOL.

I'm sorry but I just can't take the rest of it seriously with P/Nothing getting buffed.

it got buffed becouse of shadow shot.i like the changes

@Safandula.8723 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Needed that balance patch for level 1 when you only get one weapon LOL.

I'm sorry but I just can't take the rest of it seriously with P/Nothing getting buffed.

Read again son.

It gets buffed by 20% damage only if you don't have an offhand weapon.

I mean yes, more bleeding stacks. This is great but it doesn't solve the P/D isse where it can't mask it's conditions properly.Its just more stacks to be cleaned together.

PS²: no Wait. My point is PvP only. Any good raider can say if more Bleeding on P/D makes it worth for fractals/raids?

@"SoulSin.5682" said:TL:DR and my personal opinion:

The Good:

• Shadow Step actually got buffed. It's a small QoL change but that 5 seconds helps a lot when you do want that quick decap without the risk of "running out of time".
• Actual buffs to P/D. Specially Condi builds.

The Bad:

• WHAT IS THE GODAM POINT OF BUFFING REPEATER WITHOUT OFFHAND!!??
• UC could be a buff if, and only if, Exhaustion didn't stacked. Now that it stacks I can predict we getting absurds amount of exhaustion under heavy CC pressure;

The Fixes:

• We still get stealth on dodge, but now for an almost useless window of time. Well there is still enough time to cast a safe heal and DJ tough.
• Lead attack "bug" got fixed. As intended.

My final opinion:

In all due sincerity, this patch is more of another nerf than anything else. Who in the hell uses P/D?My biggest let down is that they write that Off hand Pistol and Dagger are getting buffs but in the end they DONT EVEN TOUCH off hand Dagger and Pistol skill. This basically means that D/D is still useless despite what was written down (massive letdown).

im not gonna belive it stacks daddy.

@"Safandula.8723" said:im not gonna belive it stacks daddy.

I actually never bothered testing mysef. Does UC cleans more than one CC?

• If Yes: Since Exhaustion now stacks up to 3 times, it means we can stack up to 9 seconds in a single Dodge if we have every CC on us.
• If No: Thats actually a giant buff, since we get "up to" 4 seconds of Exhaustion instead of a flat 4. Until you dodge again and get exhaustion again cleaning another CC.

To me the wording of the UC change says that the exhaustion doesn’t stack.

@SoulSin.5682 said:

@"Safandula.8723" said:im not gonna belive it stacks daddy.

• If
  Yes
  : Since Exhaustion now stacks up to 3 times, it means we can stack up to 9 seconds in a single Dodge if we have every CC on us.
• If
  No
  : Thats actually a giant buff, since we get "up to" 4 seconds of Exhaustion instead of a flat 4. Until you dodge again and get exhaustion again cleaning another CC.

yea it cleans all ccs. if it works as u think, we will get 9s of exhaustion pretty often. no way

@SoulSin.5682 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Needed that balance patch for level 1 when you only get one weapon LOL.

I'm sorry but I just can't take the rest of it seriously with P/Nothing getting buffed.

There is never a purpose in playing without an offhand weapon because the offhand weapon provides stats, including weapon damage (which is why 2h weapons have higher damage values as well). Unless they overtune single-hand skills massively, it's literally pointless to change these skills.

I did not think people even played with no weapon off hand. What is the point ? Lose out on sigils, lose out on stats, lose out on utility for....? Now I do use P/d in a condition build and like what it does. I am going to give no off hand a try......but whty give up a port away and torment stacks for bleed?

Maybe the P/d build as hybrid will be more a thing using repeater after a shadowstrike?

@babazhook.6805 said:I did not think people even played with no weapon off hand. What is the point ? Lose out on sigils, lose out on stats, lose out on utility for....? Now I do use P/d in a condition build and like what it does. I am going to give no off hand a try......but whty give up a port away and torment stacks for bleed?

Maybe the P/d build as hybrid will be more a thing using repeater after a shadowstrike?

That’s my hope. I’ve been playing hybrid so that has a lot of potential assuming the set still feels fluid to play. We’ll see how it plays.

I’d just like to take a moment to appreciate being buffed explicitly (although previous Shadow Strike also was a legitimate direct buff). I’ve played this weapon set for six years now and I have to say it’s about time.

@saerni.2584 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:I did not think people even played with no weapon off hand. What is the point ? Lose out on sigils, lose out on stats, lose out on utility for....? Now I do use P/d in a condition build and like what it does. I am going to give no off hand a try......but whty give up a port away and torment stacks for bleed?

Maybe the P/d build as hybrid will be more a thing using repeater after a shadowstrike?

The way I envision it happening is at melee attack and apply torment as you shadowstrike away. This followed up by the ability to use repeater. Now if the INI cost reasonable for Repeater that skill can have a formidable damage component in sum total. Sneak attack bleed duration add should be applied to the regular bleed off pistol one as well.

@"SoulSin.5682" said:TL:DR and my personal opinion:

The Good:

• Shadow Step actually got buffed. It's a small QoL change but that 5 seconds helps a lot when you do want that quick decap without the risk of "running out of time".
• Actual buffs to P/D. Specially Condi builds.

The Bad:

• WHAT IS THE GODAM POINT OF BUFFING REPEATER WITHOUT OFFHAND!!??
• UC could be a buff if, and only if, Exhaustion didn't stacked. Now that it stacks I can predict we getting absurds amount of exhaustion under heavy CC pressure;

The Fixes:

• We still get stealth on dodge, but now for an almost useless window of time. Well there is still enough time to cast a safe heal and DJ tough.
• Lead attack "bug" got fixed. As intended.

My final opinion:

In all due sincerity, this patch is more of another nerf than anything else. Who in the hell uses P/D?My biggest let down is that they write that Off hand Pistol and Dagger are getting buffs but in the end they DONT EVEN TOUCH off hand Dagger and Pistol skill. This basically means that D/D is still useless despite what was written down (massive letdown).

I don't see anywhere that says that UC stacks now.

@"Dahkeus.8243" said:To me the wording of the UC change says that the exhaustion doesn’t stack.

I missed it as well but under General in the patch notes it states "Exhaustion: This boon now stacks in duration up to 3 times."

Yikes yikes yikes.... What is going on with these never ending nerfs to UC? DD is so overly tuned already.

@"DragonSlayer.1087" said:Yikes yikes yikes.... What is going on with these never ending nerfs to UC? DD is so overly tuned already.

How is this a nerf? Read it again... "The duration of exhaustion that this trait applies(so what number of second will be applied 2,3,or4 secs) when dodging is now 2 seconds if crippled is present, 3 seconds if chilled is present, and 4 seconds if immobilized is present." PRESENT SO IF THERE IS CRIPPLED AND CHIILLED THEN ITS JUST 4!!! So for the exhaustion boon... it will be just one. but if you dodge 3 times with 3 applied chilled after each then yeah... it will stack. When does that happen?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/66831/suggestion-unhindered-combatant#latestthe update came from here!!

It was originally 4 secs... now it can be lower depending on the present of which immobilized present

@Xenji.4907 said:

@"DragonSlayer.1087" said:Yikes yikes yikes.... What is going on with these never ending nerfs to UC? DD is so overly tuned already.

that should be good iterpretation. 9s of exhaus on 1 dodge would be kinda... "silly"

@"SoulSin.5682" said:

• Shadow Step actually got buffed. It's a small QoL change but that 5 seconds helps a lot when you do want that quick decap without the risk of "running out of time".

• Actual buffs to P/D. Specially Condi builds.I don't mind the shadowstep change - didn't feel like something necessary but I'll take it

• WHAT IS THE GODAM POINT OF BUFFING REPEATER WITHOUT OFFHAND!!??Lol my thoughts exactly, but i think it this move was to provide a semi-dual effect to p/d and give it a slightly different flavour on pistol 3 when paired with dagger. It is interesting nonetheless, for me at least. I can see why they did the change and I appreciative of this, but I'd like to see how it works in the field. Repeater seems to fire slightly faster than engineer's poison dart volley.

• UC could be a buff if, and only if, Exhaustion didn't stacked. Now that it stacks I can predict we getting absurds amount of exhaustion under heavy CC pressure;Going to be interesting to see how this works out.

• We still get stealth on dodge, but now for an almost useless window of time. Well there is still enough time to cast a safe heal and DJ tough.Yeah, not sure what the purpose of the stealth on there is now, it may be too little, they should have added something to silent scope in exchange for the reduction.

• Lead attack "bug" got fixed. As intended.Not a real issue I think, at least I don't think I will notice it.

In all due sincerity, this patch is more of another nerf than anything else. Who in the hell uses P/D?My biggest let down is that they write that Off hand Pistol and Dagger are getting buffs but in the end they DONT EVEN TOUCH off hand Dagger and Pistol skill. This basically means that D/D is still useless despite what was written down (massive letdown).I think the buff to dagger was technically:Shadow Strike: This skill now grants access to Repeater for 4 seconds upon landing a successful melee hit.so it's offhand dagger melee hit giving repeater for 4s (I think their wording made it seem that they were buffing offhand dagger specifically, but I think that is not the case here, just p/d). I am somewhat interested in this if there is something that I think might be there that I will bring up when the patch hits. Other than that I think it wasn't really a "buff" directly, they just added some extra utility that you could get out of it without affecting other weaponsets and were using p/d specifically. I mean I am happy there is a change to p/d - there are a few here I know who use it like babazhook and I've been interested in it for a while but I just suck on it but now maybe I will be spending more time using it.

All in all though after this patch hits I can guarantee you will still hear complaints about thief in the end lol.

Lol at this part though: For builds that use a pistol in their main hand with no off-hand weapon, the damage of this skill has been increased by 20%I need to think me up a gimmick build but it is probably not worth it.

Interesting shadow strike now has a 2nd part (like FS/LS). Might have to make a trailblazer kit. Think there is still a lot of reflects in the game for p/d to work as it use to though.

P/D change looks like it could be fun, but as Fat said reflects will probably make it hard to enjoy. Wouldn't mind seeing the flip over option applied to dagger sets. Death Blossom into Horns of the Ox to give D/D some more utility?

@SoulSin.5682 said:

@"Safandula.8723" said:im not gonna belive it stacks daddy.

• If
  Yes
  : Since Exhaustion now stacks up to 3 times, it means we can stack up to 9 seconds in a single Dodge if we have every CC on us.
• If
  No
  : Thats actually a giant buff, since we get "up to" 4 seconds of Exhaustion instead of a flat 4. Until you dodge again and get exhaustion again cleaning another CC.It cleanses only one time so it applies exhaustion only one time.

You got crippled, chilled and immobilized? -> 4s exhaustionOne second later you are immobilized again? -> 7s exhaustion (remaining 3s + 4s)

That no offhand Repeater buff was good for a laugh.

But: You get Repeater too, when you wear P/D, it only deals 20% less damage, so it's technically a buff to P/D as even though you teleport yourself away with Shadow Strike you can now use skill 3 (Repeater) right again (if Repeater is a ranged skill, what I think it is).

@KrHome.1920 said:

@SoulSin.5682 said:

@"Safandula.8723" said:im not gonna belive it stacks daddy.

• If
  Yes
  : Since Exhaustion now stacks up to 3 times, it means we can stack up to 9 seconds in a single Dodge if we have every CC on us.
• If
  No
  : Thats actually a giant buff, since we get "up to" 4 seconds of Exhaustion instead of a flat 4. Until you dodge again and get exhaustion again cleaning another CC.It cleanses only one time so it applies exhaustion only one time.

I personally think they mucked up on their wording. Who is going to run a 1 pistol build and leave out dancing dagger and cloak and dagger for a 20% single hit pistol shot. I am guessing that what they wrote was a reminder of what the original skill does, and we get the 20% bonus as p/d.

The big potential issues I see with the change to Shadowstrike is how long Repeater is available and at what cost.

Right now it is a five initiative skill and doesn’t have a return on initiative ability like Unload or a might stacking ability. That is fairly expensive so it needs to be worth it on the damage side. I agree the wording is unclear and hopefully Repeater is buffed universally by 20%.

On timing this may make kiting much harder. The duration of the alternate skill is 4 seconds. That is a long time when you would rather use another Shadowstrike. My preference would be for a two second period in which Repeater can be used but I’ll reserve judgment until after I can play around with it.

learn rev, it's a better thief atm