Core weapon skills tweak proposition

1. HammerPhase Smash - changed to escape. Deal damage in front of you, knocking off opponents and shadowstep backward (900range)Field of the mist - changed to insta castDrop the hammer - reduced cast time to 3/4

2. SwordPrecision strike. No longer splits damage. Now shoots 1 projectile per target for the same damage. Track people in stealthUnrelenting Assault - changed to single target. Damage around your target is spread to nearly enemies at 75% damage value. No longer provides mightDuelist's Preparation returns. Shackling Wave cannot be used till a block is not triggered. Damage is no longer split. Number of targets reduced to 3

3. Mace+axe

   Manifest Toxin - added 1sec chillEchoing Eruption - added evadeFrigid Blitz - added evade for the shadowstep part

4. StaffRejuvenating Assault - no longer spawns orbs, now heals directly and allies around youRenewing Wave - reduced cast time to 1/4

Apart from that i think they should look into might traits. For a power build atm rev is balanced around 25 might stacks for some unknow reason. I think its time to cut off might stacks a bit and rebalance the damage

No to all 3 of the hammer changes. Those would just be an excuse to increase cd and energy cost while also adding red rings. Not to mention the phase smash change would pretty much remove the current mechanic that allows revenants to pop marks and traps while turning it from a ground targeted aoe damage at range to a melee attack.

Staff 2 need a revamp

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:Staff 2 need a revamp

It doesn't "need" a "revamp".

@Justine.6351 said:

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:Staff 2 need a revamp

What does it need then?

@"Scoobaniec.9561" said:

1. HammerPhase Smash - changed to escape. Deal damage in front of you, knocking off opponents and shadowstep backward (900range)

So add a CC and make it a melee skill? As a WvW rev that's a direct nerf to rev damage, so no.

Field of the mist - changed to insta castDrop the hammer - reduced cast time to 3/4

Not really needed - these 2 are pretty balanced.

2. SwordUnrelenting Assault - changed to single target. Damage around your target is spread to nearly enemies at 75% damage value. No longer provides might

Only single target and no might generation are good - the damage to nearby enemies part might be a bit too much, the DPS in a teamfight could be insane.

Duelist's Preparation returns. Shackling Wave cannot be used till a block is not triggered. Damage is no longer split. Number of targets reduced to 3

I'm a big fan of the big damage sword 4 - but in order to bring the powercreep down I'd be fine with the old sword 4. The thing is, this is why rev is good in PvP. Nerfing this would mean buffing Rev's sustain in other areas so that it can become a team fighter.

Deathstrike - Shadowstep to your foe and deliver a quick attack, pulling your target to your original position and delivering a second devastating blow if it hits.

Nope. Deathstrike is fine - it has good damage, good tell, good soft CC to prepare for a burst, an excellent mobility skill. Adding a CC could be too OP, and pulling back the target to the original position takes away Deathstrike's mobility part.

Frigid Blitz - added evade for the shadowstep part

Sounds interesting - although I want to tone down the powercreep rather than nerfing underpowered stuff.

4. StaffRejuvenating Assault - no longer spawns orbs, now heals directly and allies around youRenewing Wave - reduced cast time to 1/4

Both sounds good. Staff AA change is a good QoL change, staff 4 is kinda underwhelming and could use that buff.

Apart from that i think they should look into might traits. For a power build atm rev is balanced around 25 might stacks for some unknow reason. I think its time to cut off might stacks a bit and rebalance the damage

Because of Incensed Response - which is one prime example of powercreep. Notoriety might play a part too, although not as severely.

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:Staff 2 need a revamp

Nothing. It functions fine.

If i were asked how to change it,It could be simplified to a single attack that deals good damage and daze only to struck foes committing an action. Would still put it at 15e so people arnt using it on recharge.

@"Scoobaniec.9561" said:

2. SwordPrecision strike. No longer splits damage. Now shoots 1 projectile per target for the same damage. Track people in stealthUnrelenting Assault - changed to single target. Damage around your target is spread to nearly enemies at 75% damage value. No longer provides mightDuelist's Preparation returns. Shackling Wave cannot be used till a block is not triggered. Damage is no longer split. Number of targets reduced to 3Deathstrike - Shadowstep to your foe and deliver a quick attack, pulling your target to your original position and delivering a second devastating blow if it hits.

With the exception of having a second Reveal and situationally on UA, these are all crazy, crazzzzzy nerfs to Power Rev's strongest weapon... No thank you.

@narcx.3570 said:

@"Scoobaniec.9561" said:

2. SwordPrecision strike. No longer splits damage. Now shoots 1 projectile per target for the same damage. Track people in stealthUnrelenting Assault - changed to single target. Damage around your target is spread to nearly enemies at 75% damage value. No longer provides mightDuelist's Preparation returns. Shackling Wave cannot be used till a block is not triggered. Damage is no longer split. Number of targets reduced to 3Deathstrike - Shadowstep to your foe and deliver a quick attack, pulling your target to your original position and delivering a second devastating blow if it hits.

How so? Aside from offhand sword (well tbh i was more curious about what replies i will get in case of revamped old sword 5), its all buff. What i mean by this change in case of precision strike, 1 projectile would deal as much dmg as 3 projectiles does now. What would get reduced is chill duration tho. Cant have it all.

@idolin.2831 said:

Only single target and no might generation are good - the damage to nearby enemies part might be a bit too much, the DPS in a teamfight could be insane.Last time i checked in wvw, at 25might stacks my tooltip on UA was pathetic 3,5k base dmg. for a comprasion 0 might warrior axe 5 had 5,6k and i as missing some power from trinkets. Now we can argue that it doesnt evade, the chanlled is longer (still that dmg is ridiculous) but unlike UA, its affected by quickness that comes with axe 4. No, i dont think it would be ridiculous. Also how often players stack on top of each other in pvp with all the aoes flying around?

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

1. HammerPhase Smash - changed to escape. Deal damage in front of you, knocking off opponents and shadowstep backward (900range)Field of the mist - changed to insta castDrop the hammer - reduced cast time to 3/4

2. SwordPrecision strike. No longer splits damage. Now shoots 1 projectile per target for the same damage. Track people in stealthUnrelenting Assault - changed to single target. Damage around your target is spread to nearly enemies at 75% damage value. No longer provides mightDuelist's Preparation returns. Shackling Wave cannot be used till a block is not triggered. Damage is no longer split. Number of targets reduced to 3Deathstrike - Shadowstep to your foe and deliver a quick attack, pulling your target to your original position and delivering a second devastating blow if it hits.

3. Mace+axe

   Manifest Toxin - added 1sec chillEchoing Eruption - added evadeFrigid Blitz - added evade for the shadowstep part

4. StaffRejuvenating Assault - no longer spawns orbs, now heals directly and allies around youRenewing Wave - reduced cast time to 1/4

Apart from that i think they should look into might traits. For a power build atm rev is balanced around 25 might stacks for some unknow reason. I think its time to cut off might stacks a bit and rebalance the damage

Without context these changes don't really make sense to me. Don't fix stuff that's not broken. You'll only end up breaking it.Can only get behind the staff changes, as the orbs are dumb and staff 4 is rather clunky to use. Something should also be done to staff 2. 2-part skills are just not very good if the second part doesn't auto-proc after the first skill, or there needs to be a significant window for using it like on Chrono shield or Shadowstep.

If I could change one thing about any of Revenant's weapons, it would be for the "shadowstep" on axe 4 to still go through if the player is blinded or the skill is evaded.

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:If I could change one thing about any of Revenant's weapons, it would be for the "shadowstep" on axe 4 to still go through if the player is blinded or the skill is evaded.

But then it would be nearly identical to Sword #5. We already have this one.

As for me, I'd get rid of Sword #5 and bring back Block on #4. major

Change orbs mechanic on Staff. minor

Add Evade Backwards after shooting Shortbow #3. minor

The Shield. major

Adding the block on shackling wave would make revenant pve damage even more pitiful. No, its not needed, its already painful enough with the added cast time. Bad idea.

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Apart from that i think they should look into might traits. For a power build atm rev is balanced around 25 might stacks for some unknow reason. I think its time to cut off might stacks a bit and rebalance the damage

Please god no. The added might stacks and rebalancing around 25 stacks of might was direct compensation for the 2 years of overnerfs they spent neutering Revenant base damage. We don’t need higher base values for power rev, with the sole exception of some PVE abilities, but they can (and should) deal with that through skill splits.

If they “rebalance” and essentially cut might and add that back into core damage you’re looking at 1-3 years of probably bad/weird changes before we’re “balanced” again and also looking at the possibility of rev going back to SS Tier in competitive and getting the nerf train that always follows hitting that level. Hell no to screwed up balance changes for another 1-3 years

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:How so? Aside from offhand sword (well tbh i was more curious about what replies i will get in case of revamped old sword 5), its all buff. What i mean by this change in case of precision strike, 1 projectile would deal as much dmg as 3 projectiles does now. What would get reduced is chill duration tho. Cant have it all.

I guess I misinterpreted your Precision Strike changes, because I didn't even think you'd be proposing to increase the skill damage potential by 300%? Remember this is a skill that's had it's damage nerfed by 33% and it's cooldown increased by 50% because it did (and still does) so much damage for such little effort/cost. Like, in it's current state it has the potential to one shot people in full zerker if you have the right modifiers up and use it from inside their hitbox. For 5 energy. Every 5/6 seconds.

Like, I guess I get the change your going for now tho: No skill, no positioning, just push a button and do full damage from max range. Not only would that lead to nerfs because the damage split acts as a form of counter play, but since the skill is a projectile, there'd be nothing to stop someone like me from stepping inside someone's hitbox to make all 3 bolts hit him for triple the damage.

As for everything else, your changes to Sw4 make it even more unusable against competent people with either stow-weapon keybound or the ability to hit you while you're blocking (I'm not sure which you were going for because of the double negative in your wording--but any layer of additional execution and countplay to a skill with an already monumental windup renders it useless in PvP), and your changes to death strike remove literally all it's utility. Right now it can be used as a gap closer, a retreat skill, a terrain cheese, an immob escape, and an evade baiter. With your changes it returns to a wonky pull... And that's it. (I guess it could still be used to escape immobs.) But really, any changes to sw5 would really destroy the Rev's ability to be competitive in both PvP and WvW skirmishing... So be careful what you wish for there.

As for UA, ya the damage increase would obviously be fine--but sometimes I like the might generation if I've been in Shiro too long, I dunno.... Like I said, lateral/situationally better or worse move there.

@narcx.3570 said:

@"Scoobaniec.9561" said:How so? Aside from offhand sword (well tbh i was more curious about what replies i will get in case of revamped old sword 5), its all buff. What i mean by this change in case of precision strike, 1 projectile would deal as much dmg as 3 projectiles does now. What would get reduced is chill duration tho. Cant have it all.

Its kinda funny how you mention the damage part, low cd and what not. Ive always looked up sword/sword to scrapper hammer. So lets do a comprasion

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Precision_StrikeDamage: 292 (0.7975)?Chilled (1½s): -66% Skill Recharge Rate, -66% Movement SpeedNumber of Targets: 3Combo Finisher: WhirlRange: 450

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Electro-whirlDamage (2x): 888 (2.2)?Number of Impacts: 2Number of Targets: 5Radius: 180Reflect MissilesCombo Finisher: Whirl

Not olny it has the possibility to hit up harder than PS, it also reflect projectiles, doesnt cost energy, doesnt split damage between 3 targets (in fact it can hit 5), its even on just 6cd. My aim is to remove the split damage part from all skills. Revenant is the olny class in game with such ridiculous mechanic. As for stepping inside targets they already have mechanic to prevent such situations by not letting hit you more than once from the same skill, dont they?

Sword 4 its how counterskills are working. Removing the block part was a horrible decision. All it ever needed was dmg buff. I have to say sword 5 is fine where it is, but lik i mentioned earlier i was curious how community would react to a bit more unique approach

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:How so? Aside from offhand sword (well tbh i was more curious about what replies i will get in case of revamped old sword 5), its all buff. What i mean by this change in case of precision strike, 1 projectile would deal as much dmg as 3 projectiles does now. What would get reduced is chill duration tho. Cant have it all.

Scrapper lacks the excessive damage modifiers that Power Rev can build tho... So PS still has way more damage potential than hammer2.

And if you remove target splitting from Rev skills, that removes a level of counterplay which would lead to the inevitable nerfing of said skills... In the end you'd have skills that are easier to use, but lack the oomph. Lazy players or players who don't know how to use their skills/class might see a slight dps increase from this, but it would be a hard nerf for people who are putting effort into playing. Like, anet's not just going to let UA be a single target nuke with a built in i-frame without super-nerfing it's damage, and the same goes for PS's bolts. They don't want you to just be able to press sword 2 and nuke 3 people for 8-12k damage... That would be broken af.

In a way, we're actually pretty lucky that Rev skills are balanced around target splitting being one of their counterplays, because you can totally play around it to exploit the most out of your bursts.

@narcx.3570 said:

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:

@narcx.3570 said:

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:How so? Aside from offhand sword (well tbh i was more curious about what replies i will get in case of revamped old sword 5), its all buff. What i mean by this change in case of precision strike, 1 projectile would deal as much dmg as 3 projectiles does now. What would get reduced is chill duration tho. Cant have it all.

Except every class is capable of doing it, even worse, some can do it from stealth. I mean pve dps charts should give you a good view where rev sword really stand once everyone is specced for full damage like revs in pvp are. Like legit meta spvp herald build is basically a pve build with all the possible dmg mods taken lol. Its either explode people or get exploded. Basically like the warrior in old days

Split dmg is not a counterplay. Its horrible desing. There are plenty of skills that hit harder and you dont see them doing splitting.So in your opinion should mace/axe do split damage too? If you remove cleanses from the game mace gonna hit hard af and leave people hopeless. Just by pressing axe 5 you can do 10k alone on 15cd. Imagine what if mace 2 was splitting burn between targets.. < cage >

@Scoobaniec.9561 said:Except every class is capable of doing it, even worse, some can do it from stealth. I mean pve dps charts should give you a good view where rev sword really stand once everyone is specced for full damage like revs in pvp are. Like legit meta spvp herald build is basically a pve build with all the possible dmg mods taken lol. Its either explode people or get exploded. Basically like the warrior in old days

Split dmg is not a counterplay. Its horrible desing. There are plenty of skills that hit harder and you dont see them doing splitting.So in your opinion should mace/axe do split damage too? If you remove cleanses from the game mace gonna hit hard af and leave people hopeless. Just by pressing axe 5 you can do 10k alone on 15cd. Imagine what if mace 2 was splitting burn between targets.. < cage >

Well first off, with PvE benchmarks, they are using full raid buffs, which people can't even get close to in PvP (except Rev.) That's partially why Herald's damage is so good in PvP--they are basically the only class running around with permanent fury/25 might. That and their traited modifiers are realistic to achieve in PvP/WvW... Like, a Thief's not going to be able to hit you from behind while you have 8 condis on you and they have 9 boons up to scale their dps, a DH isn't going to have you tethered while you and he both stand in their symbol, etc... But a Rev can certainly keep an upkeep skill up and have 4-5 boons to trait up their modifiers.

As for Mace/Axe splitting dmg, I know you're just saying that to be facetious, but they already have tons of built in counterplay on top of the usual block/evade, such as, not standing in a huge pulsing fire field, not spamming skills when you have confusion on you, and perhaps the biggest/most effective level of counterplay in the game: Cleanse.

Like, if you think Rev is so bad that in order to fix it, anet needs to make their skills do THEE TIMES the damage they do now, you need to either learn to use those skills properly or just play a different profession, because buffs like that are never going to happen--and if they did, they would just rock the meta and lead to insane nerfs and more years of broken balance trying to fix it.

@Scoobaniec.9561

If PS only fires 1 projectile that has the damage of all 3 projectiles now, that number can easily reach 10k. With 25 might, invo/devastation/herald, marauder+zerker gear leadership runes (so standard - maybe a more glass cannon version - power herald), each projectile already hits for about 3-4k for me. It has to have counterplay - and target split is one of them. Another one is moving out of range/kiting (so you only get hit by 1, 2 or even 0 projectile). Can you imagine a skill that lets you fire a 10k damage projectile on a 5s CD? I can't, and Anet probably can't either, so it will get nerfed in multiple ways - higher CD, higher energy cost, slower projectile speed, lower damage, etc. you name it. And I'm sure nobody wants that. PS right now is a perfect damage filler skill for rev - it hits hard, but it can be countered, and can be thrown out more freely before using bigger burst skills like sword 4.

So wait guys.. having a pet as class mechanic is supposed to be a counterplay to rev in pvp jsut like a group of mobs in pve is supposed to make sure you will enver touch anything outside of autoattack spam? I mean.. i see this discussion as pointless and im just gonna leave it here while you can continue cope about 10k PS running a PVE build in pvp.

Muh counterplay, muh rev dmg 10k on 6cdhttp://i.imgur.com/ZUeCbT5.gif

Dont even get me started on the warrior chopping for 5k in spvp just because (same goes to ranger lb and 30k rapid fire from 2000 range) and not even fully specced into dmg unlike rev but i suppose rev would be broken without dmg split lmao ok whatever boyos, good luck

@Scoobaniec.9561

Nobody uses UA in PvE, damage wise yes you're better off doing AA. You can avoid doing target split with PS by standing inside the enemy. Also in PvP UA is more like a damage avoidance tool - of course the damage is good but it comes at a price that you will end up right beside your enemy and that's not good for power rev at all.