It's time for the hammer, Anet!

It's no secret that PoF has brought the powercreep in PvP to a new level.DPS builds, rely on cheesy gimmicks to 100-0 a person within ~3seconds with minimum effort.Bunker and support builds basically vomit boons all over the place, while being able to fully re-sustain critical damage with 1-2 keystrokes.

Imo, literally every meta or viable PvP spec has been reduced to a gimmick and the overall skillfloor for impactful performance has dropped to the point that fighting any class feels cheesy and unfun.

I - and I am sure some others - honestly think its time for a balance patch that basically NERFS almost every spec in the game in a way that targets the actual issues with some classes instead of just randomly nerfing some aspects and compensating in other areas. Not all nerfs warrant compensations.

So here are my ideas for some nerfs plus some of the reasoning behind them.All changes are PvP ONLY!!

RevenantLets not kid ourselves: Herald's damage is busted. It might be hard to pinpoint as to why that is and personally I don't think, that the main issue stems from any specific skills, but rather from insane damage modifier stacking paired with perma 25 might and fury. The "LoL Rev takes skill to play and if you die to it, it's on you"-argument hasn't been applicable for a long time now and "lack of defenses" also is a joke imo. It's not like has no defensive option (shield, retribution traitline and whatnot), but people OPT to ignore those in favor of full out offense simply because the shiro legend, quite frankly, has been borderline-broken since its introduction and offers "good enough" defense on its own.

Main Issues:

• 25 might (thats even 33% stronger) with 100% critchance.
• Stacking of multiple Damage modifiers
• Shiro bringing "good enough" survivability on its own

Nerfs:

• Notoriety (Devastation): Has been removed from the game (main reason for the "perma 25 might thats even 33% stronger" meme)
• Riposting Shadows (Assassin skill): Removed the fury gain from this skill (which with current notoriety and incensed response also gives 5 might btw)
• Ferocious Aggression (Invocation): Reduced bonus dmg to 5% (from 7%)
• Forceful Persistence (Herald): Reduced bonus dmg to 10% (from 13) and 2% from herald upkeeps (from 3%) respectively.

WarriorStrength Spellbreaker damage is ridiculous atm. It sits in a similar boat to revenant, where dmg modifier and might stacking lead to massively inflated dmg.On top of that, they have decent enough defenses and sustain (FC, healing signet, Might makes Right, shield block etc.etc.) to not even bother with defensive choices and can go all in on offensive traits.

Main Issues:

• 25 might (thats even 33% stronger)
• Stacking of multiple damage modifiers
• Good enough defense/Sustain with next to no defensive trait investment

Nerfs:

• Attacker's Insight (Spellbreaker): Reduced the power and ferocity gain to 30 (from 45) per stack.
• Magebane Tether (Spellbreaker): Reduced the duration of this trait to 6s (from 8). (=which reduces might gain; which in turn reduces Might makes right gain)
• Rampage (Elite skill): Reduced the damage of all skills by 10% respectively)
• Reckless Dodge (Strength): No longer gives might and removed to unblockable effect.

EngineerA bit of a tricky one, since it has 2 very good elite specs rn. Personally I think that the alchemy traitline offers way too much value which enables massive boon uptime.The current Holosmith spec for instance gets a whooping 43% boon duration from just the alchemy traitline and something like leadership runes for instance.On top of that, the base dmg from Photon forge skills is simply too high.Scrapper on the other hand is ludicrously tanky and most of its sustain comes from just passives with no active gameplay needed (Barrier on getting hit, lmao).

Main Issues:

• Too much boonuptime on both Holo and Scrapper
• High base damge on PF skills
• Scrapper getting carried by moslty passive procs
• Barrier on Scrapper is too damn high

Nerfs:

• Compounding Chemicals (Alchemy): Reduced the bonus concentration to 150 (from 240) = 10% boon duration from 16%.
• Flash Cutter (PF skill): Reduced dmg of this skill by 15%.
• Holo Leap (PF skill): Reduced dmg of this skilly by 10%.
• Photon Blitz (PF skill): Reduced dmg of this skill by 10%.
• Holographic Shockwave (PF skill): Removed the "always critically hits" effect and reduced radius to 450 (from 600).
• Smoke Bomb (Inventions): Reduced the duration of this skill to 4 seconds = 2 pulses (from 6 seconds = 3 pulses) and increased recharge to 30s (from 20s).
• Rapid Regeneration (Scrapper): Reduced the healing provided by superspeed by ~33%.
• Adaptive Armor (Scrapper): Reduced the Barrier gain by 20% and increased the ICD to 5s (from 3)
• Impact Savant (Scrapper): Reduced the bonus barrier gain to 10% (from 15).
• Bullwark Gyro (Gyro skill): Reduced the "Watchful eye"-effect from this skill to 20% (from ~35%).

ElementalistEven though weaver is considered one of the weaker specs rn (terribly biased comment coming through), fighting a bunker weaver is no fun (for either side btw).Fresh air weaver on the other hand might be super squishy, but their burst is just as disgusting. IMO ele needs a rework, but since thats not the goal of this threat, it might be better to just nerf certain annoying aspects of those builds before talking about a rework. Bringing the other classes more in line, might actually already be enough to make Ele able to compete tbh.

Issues:

• A LOT of bonus ferocity from the Air tratiline
• Passive resustaining from trait procs

Nerfs:

• Aeromancer's training (Air): Changed the 180 bonus ferocity gain (=12% crit dmg) to 180 precision (=8.5% crit chance).
• Raging Storm (Air): Reduced the bonus ferocity from 240 (=16% crit dmg) to 180 ferocity ( =12% crit dmg).
• Fresh Air (Air): Reduced the bonus ferocity from 250 (~16.5% crit dmg) to 180 ferocity (=12% crit dmg).
• Healing Ripple (Water): Added a 10s ICD to this trait. (=which basically means nothing for core and tempest specs, but wont allow weaver to proc this as frequently as it does now)

RangerWhile druid already got kinda bopped dmg wise last patch, Soulbeast is still happily running around, oneshotting people with Rapid Fire and Mauls.At the same time they can be incredibly tanky and evasive thanks to their mobility and certain trait interactions.The "damage-output to sustain"-ratio on this class is absolutely bonkers and needs to finally get adressed.

Issues:

• Insane Dmg (even on 0 ferocity amulets)
• Unproptionally good survivablity
• Boonspam

Nerfs:

• SIck'em (Shout): Reduced the bonus dmg of this skill to 20% (from 40%). (and dont tell me core specs will mind, cause they dont use this anyway)
• Forage (Beast skill): Removed "consume plasma" from the table of available skills.
• Lingering Magic (Nature Magic): Reduced the bonus concentration from this trait to 180 (from 240). (16% boon duration to 12%).
• Dolyak Stance (Stance Skill): Reduced dmg reduction for conditions and power dmg to 20% (from 33%). (still good enough since it stacks with protection).
• Unstoppable Union (Soulbeast): Instead granting the "unblockable effect) for a fixed duration, this trait now applies to your next 3 attacks (=hits) within 4s instead.
• Richochet (Axe Skill): Reduced might gain to 7 seconds (from 10).

I dont really have enough insight on other classes to make any sort of comment on them, or they are mostly fine imo.But considering that this would reduce TTK massively throughout the entire gamemode, specs like FB would definitely also need adjustments in order to prevent them from just keeping people alive indefinitely.

I think this is missing something.

Starts with an M.

Tastes like cheese.

Maybe im to confused....

It torments me alot that i cant find the name.

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:I think this is missing something.

Starts with an M.

Tastes like cheese.

Maybe im to confused....

It torments me alot that i cant find the name.

I honestly didn't even know where to start with mirage....so I just left it out altogether.Even tho I actually believe power chrono / mirage are more of an issue than the condi version atm.

@Zenix.6198 said:I honestly didn't even know where to start with mirage....so I just left it out altogether.Even tho I actually believe power chrono / mirage are more of an issue than the condi version atm.I am just wondering what the actual issue is with power mesmer builds, as they have been hit by nerfs harder than condi mirages for the past few months (except the last update)

@Zenix.6198 said:

• Healing Ripple (Water): Added a 10s ICD to this trait. (=which basically means nothing for core and tempest specs, but wont allow weaver to proc this as frequently as it does now)

Weaver doesnt proc healing ripple faster than core or tempest. to proc it you have to swap into water, wait for universal cooldown on attunements from weaver, then swap out and wait for the cooldown again before you can go back in water. double swapping into water does not proc this trait a second time. if you add an ICD all you do is make it jank to use with arcane on all specs.If you want to nerf weaver you should nerf sword evades or bolstered elements.

Wtf? Nerf thread without Thief's head impaled on a spike in it?! This literally freaks me out and makes me feel really uncertain.

no to adaptive armor change. that nerf would make it useless, besides the other nerfs would bring scrapper to an even less op level of bunker.unfortunately I think fb powercreep is necessary since everything else is buffed to the high heavens.

I'll just comment on the one that I have the most experience with.

@"Zenix.6198" said:RevenantLets not kid ourselves: Herald's damage is busted. It might be hard to pinpoint as to why that is and personally I don't think, that the main issue stems from any specific skills, but rather from insane damage modifier stacking paired with perma 25 might and fury. The "LoL Rev takes skill to play and if you die to it, it's on you"-argument hasn't been applicable for a long time now and "lack of defenses" also is a joke imo. It's not like has no defensive option (shield, retribution traitline and whatnot), but people OPT to ignore those in favor of full out offense simply because the shiro legend, quite frankly, has been borderline-broken since its introduction and offers "good enough" defense on its own.

Main Issues:

• 25 might (thats even 33% stronger) with 100% critchance.
• Stacking of multiple Damage modifiers
• Shiro bringing "good enough" survivability on its own

Nerfs:

• Notoriety (Devastation): Has been removed from the game (main reason for the "perma 25 might thats even 33% stronger" meme)
• Riposting Shadows (Assassin skill): Removed the fury gain from this skill (which with current notoriety and incensed response also gives 5 might btw)
• Ferocious Aggression (Invocation): Reduced bonus dmg to 5% (from 7%)
• Forceful Persistence (Herald): Reduced bonus dmg to 10% (from 13) and 2% from herald upkeeps (from 3%) respectively.

• I would just bring Notoriety down to 1 for each Legendary stance skill and 2 for each Assassin skill.
• Riposting Shadows really isn't an issue as this skill is only really used when kiting. That means if you need it you are already losing the fight. Though I wouldn't miss the Fury either. Just don't fix what ain't broken.
• I wouldn't touch the the last 2 things either. Instead I would reduce the damage bonus of Phase Traversal from 10% to 5%, damage bonus of Burst of Strength from 15% to 10%, and reduce the damage on Enchanted Daggers while improving their Healing.

I have things to say about ele too but I'll get to that another time. Don't have the time rn.

PS. Incensed Response is 2 Might, not 5.

@Yannir.4132 said:

PS. Incensed Response is 2 Might, not 5.

It is indeed.But Riposting shadows giving fury and 5 might (since it procs Incensed Response AND notoriety) is a bit overkill for a supposedly defensive skill.

@dronte.3416 said:

@Zenix.6198 said:I honestly didn't even know where to start with mirage....so I just left it out altogether.Even tho I actually believe power chrono / mirage are more of an issue than the condi version atm.I am just wondering what the actual issue is with power mesmer builds, as they have been hit by nerfs harder than condi mirages for the past few months (except the last update)

Glass power mesmer can burst for over 20k with litterally 0 weapon skills and litterally 0 cast times unless you count prepping the mantras. The only limiting factor for how fast the burst completes is how fast can the mesmer press all the buttons. No build should be able to stack as much instant cast damage as mesmer currently can with double mantra, lost time, and shatters. Though I consider all instant cast damage stupid with the only acceptable forms being stuff like primordial stance where the skill is instantly activated but does it's damage over the course of a few seconds or shade skills where the cast is instant but there is a delay and telegraph.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@dronte.3416 said:

@"Zenix.6198" said:I honestly didn't even know where to start with mirage....so I just left it out altogether.Even tho I actually believe power chrono / mirage are more of an issue than the condi version atm.I am just wondering what the actual issue is with power mesmer builds, as they have been hit by nerfs harder than condi mirages for the past few months (except the last update)

Have you ever played power mes with zerker amulet tho? To get the one shot off, you have a small window to do it after proccing the might buff from mantra channel and you blow almost all of your offensive cooldowns. Also, its super easy to see coming, so to pull it off on any competent player you have to blow ur torch 4 stealth and your blink to get the surprise off.

It is literally the poster child of an all in glass build and i think part of what makes gw2 pvp fun is that you have the freedom/option to make all in builds like this and they are balanced by the simple fact that they aren't very viable in any competitive environment.

EDIT: Also, i am not sure what you mean by "zero weapon skills and cast times". You start the combo with greatsword 2 mirror blade and end it with greatsword 3 mind stab.

It's also worth mentioning that if you miss this combo you are a useless free kill until your cooldowns are back up.

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:no to adaptive armor change. that nerf would make it useless, besides the other nerfs would bring scrapper to an even less op level of bunker.

It is a "0 active gameplay"-skill tho. A massive survivability boost for doing absolutely nothing whatsoever shouldn't exist to begin with.The main selling point of this trait should be its "condi dmg reduction" and not the 0-effort barrier.

@"Zenix.6198" said:It is a "0 active gameplay"-skill tho. A massive survivability boost for doing absolutely nothing whatsoever shouldn't exist to begin with.The main selling point of this trait should be its "condi dmg reduction" and not the 0-effort barrier.

so? its the same with necro heal signet, war adrenal health, ele healing ripple... granted its more passive. how about making it more active? scrapper doesn't need successive nerfs to make them garbage tier again, people need to learn what counters them instead.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Zenix.6198" said:It is a "0 active gameplay"-skill tho. A massive survivability boost for doing absolutely nothing whatsoever shouldn't exist to begin with.The main selling point of this trait should be its "condi dmg reduction" and not the 0-effort barrier.

Comparing adaptive armour and necro heal signet ... nice

Nerf it to the same level as signet of vampirism and I'm sure there would be no complaints. All agreed on that? Good, ok.

If, as I expect, you don't want it taken down to that level, try justifying such a massive barrier as a passive trait. I'm waiting. "Don't make us garbage tier again" doesn't count - nerfs do not mean making something garbage tier, they mean (if done properly) bringing them into line with other skills and balance.Also really interested to know what counters a trait that grants barrier on being hit? Not hitting them? Good logic.

@Meteor.3720 said:snipsyou missed the part where the comparison was intended to be about mechanics only. you also missed the part where the intended change to the trait would make it useless. its really not that hard to knock something out of the meta with what seem like minor changes, especially with a bunch of said minor changes over time. wanna nerf scrapper? fine, but do it right.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Meteor.3720" said:snipsyou missed the part where the comparison was intended to be about mechanics only. you also missed the part where the intended change to the trait would make it useless. its really not that hard to knock something out of the meta with what seem like minor changes, especially with a bunch of said minor changes over time. wanna nerf scrapper? fine, but do it right.

You missed the part where you should have explained why a 20% nerf and a ICD increase of 2 seconds (as proposed by OP) would make it "useless". Bearing in mind you still have the condi damage reduction part of the trait too.

@"Meteor.3720" said:You missed the part where you should have explained why a 20% nerf and a ICD increase of 2 seconds (as proposed by OP) would make it "useless". Bearing in mind you still have the condi damage reduction part of the trait too.

I usually don't like to think for other people, but halving the barrier gain would most likely make people take kinetic stabilizers instead. at this point, whatever though ya know.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Meteor.3720" said:You missed the part where you should have explained why a 20% nerf and a ICD increase of 2 seconds (as proposed by OP) would make it "useless". Bearing in mind you still have the condi damage reduction part of the trait too.

OH NO!!!! OTHER TRAITS WOULD BECOME VIABLE IF THIS ONE OVERTUNED TRAIT IS NERFED. BUILD DIVERSITY IS THE WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME.

@Alatar.7364 said:kitten? Nerf thread without Thief's head impaled on a spike in it?! This literally freaks me out and makes me feel really uncertain.

i was scrolling through these ideas like Yea and now we get to NERF THIEF HERE HERE AND HERE AND THEN DELETE IT. i was let dissapointed and rly confused. is it possibke Anet has simply nerfed thief so much already that everyone is okay with fighting them? Has the Balance gone so far?

@"Zenix.6198" said:Warrior... to not even bother with defensive choices and can go all in on offensive traits.

Warrior has no defense option (other than sb) anymore. It's either "full" offensive or nothing as defense traitline got nerfed so hard that every master and grandmaster trait is pretty much worthless on sb. Core and berserker are noobstompers and get stomped by competent players. Tactics traitline is also a complete joke and 100% garbage. What defense other than sb traitline is there? oh right nothing. sb traitline is the defense traitline.And even that build is only strong right now because of rampage and it has a big weakness to condi dmg.

@Zenix.6198 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 said:I think this is missing something.

Starts with an M.

Tastes like cheese.

Maybe im to confused....

It torments me alot that i cant find the name.

I honestly didn't even know where to start with mirage....so I just left it out altogether.Even tho I actually believe power chrono / mirage are more of an issue than the condi version atm.

Mantras of Pain, and Mantra of Distraction with Power Block are toxic and unfun to play against. Blink+Signet of Illusions+Signet of Midnight variants are way more healthy and fun to fight against. Delayed Reactions and Danger Time give burst chrono waaaaaay to much damage.

Mesmers in general are on the down swing at this point. Scrapper, Holosmith, Spellbreaker, and Rev are all significantly better than any mesmer build at the moment.

@Zenix.6198 I think these are steps in the right direction. 10/10 for covering the specs that need attention. Though like you said, Weaver (Ele in general perhaps) is more in need of rework than nerfs per se.

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:kitten? Nerf thread without Thief's head impaled on a spike in it?! This

literally

freaks me out and makes me feel really uncertain.

Unsettling right? Mesmers are probably right there with thieves since they have similar hate and nerf history. Like, did we just read a comprehensive balance proposal that doesn't mention us? Feels so weird lol.

I have no problems with nerfing scrapper or holo but please, please, please dont nerf core engi to do that.

@"Tapps.1479" said:I have no problems with nerfing scrapper or holo but please, please, please dont nerf core engi to do that.

No one else ever gets this privilege. Heck "Why did my off meta build get caught up in nerfs when it was the other build that was OP" goes all the way back to the release of GW2, before elite specializations were ever even dreamed of.

@Ferus.3165 said:

@"Zenix.6198" said:

Warrior

... to not even bother with defensive choices and can go all in on offensive traits.

Maybe you are right.My issue with the sepc is it's oppressive dmg mainly though.Like, I just took a close look at their traits and actual dmg modifiers....and its even more disgusting than I initially assumed.1000k power from 25 might (33% stronger thanks to pinacle of might), plus 240 from forceful greatsword plus another 225 from attackers insight.And it's not too uncommon to see all those buffs stack capped ona war tbh at some point.Which is more (!) than 1.4k extra power. >1400 !Considering that, my suggestions are very much on the light side even.