Meta obsession — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Meta obsession

Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

Guys I have figured out what seems to be THE MAJOR issue not only here on forums but also inside of the game itself.

An issue which's understanding is is absolutely crucial to the entire complex of the PVP as we know it.

EVERYONE THINKS THAT THE META IS THE ONLY RIGHT WAY TO PLAY THIS GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not being sarcastic or mean to anyone here right now but i need to debate on this matter with those of you who mind to comment on this matter since I respect majority of you guys and i think you might have insight into this as well. MAINLY THOSE OF YOU WHO WILL GET WHY I MEAN BY FOLLOWING LINES

SO basically the thing is.
META IS NOT the only right way to play this game. We have always been told GW2 is the game you can play whatever way you want and that you can be anything on any class.
Yea not true I know but META is 1st going absolutely against this statement AND 2nd It is depriving your class from any other sort of combat you could possibly achieve with your class.
META rn is full of bunkers since yea everything does so much dmg ppl have to play tanks.

BUT THE THING IS META ONLY FOCUSES ON FIGHTING META BUILDS WHICH ARE ALL POWER BASED BUILDS.

There is so few actuall condi cleansing builds out there that you could count them on the fingers of one hand. I can straight up name only 3 i srsly meet in game. Water triated Weaver, The condi transfering Engineer (dunno rn which specific elite it is maybe scrapper) and Scourge.
These three classes are only 3 that srsly have builds that are meant to cleanse and swap condis to boons

If you put a player who played Meta for a longer period of time and was winding up in Plat 3 all the time since Meta build carried him there thanks to the fact he fought mostly Meta based builds on the way against some dude from Gold 3 with out of the meta build based mainly on condi the Meta dude is going to get ran over like a combain not understanding what happened and the winds up here crying about it and classes get nerfed not cuz the skill actually is overperforming but because the Meta guy wasnt equiped to fight something like that.
(inhales)

IF i had a peny for each time I hear in duel Arena Spellbreaker or Herald or other Thief or even Rangers to tell me : "You are running Condi? Why that is not the meta. Swap to s/d." cuz i ran them over 5 times in a row on my condi build cuz they ran Meta build that is meant to deal with power dmg not condi dmg I would be a milionaire.
Meta will get you to high ranks yes. It will since majority of ppl runs meta and so all you mostly face is Meta. But if you will face a team of ppl running off meta builds you will ger wrecked in the match.

A lot of ppl runs meta yea. And all of them are in high plat and the non meta builds cant reach them up there because of those Meta players who are still in gold and are huring the non meta build demographics. But that doesnt make Meta good. Meta is only good against Meta it cant fight anything non meta based.
And everyone is so certain about Meta being the gods will way to go that we will never be able to prove it wrong.
So If you got a few minutes to talk about this or to try it out in the game. I would be happy to see or talk about it here.

<13

Comments

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Took you quite a long time to realize it or, perhaps, to gather the will to write it.

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭

    as long as meta wiki exist, ppl will still think that meta builds are the only viable ones
    just make a selfie build and play it .... you will earn so much hate from others ....

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    People like to win.

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arkantos.7460 said:
    as long as meta wiki exist, ppl will still think that meta builds are the only viable ones
    just make a selfie build and play it .... you will earn so much hate from others ....

    They get really upset. People don't pay attention to skill changes or anything until it makes it to meta battle. Sadly.

  • LolLookAtMyAP.8394LolLookAtMyAP.8394 Member ✭✭✭

    Meta isn't a term given to builds that are there for no reason. They're called Meta because of how effective they are and also because many people are running the build.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    majority of people blame you for losing also, yet they are all scaled at silver gold or wherever ur in they are all equally bad as you are.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dirame.8521 said:
    They are called Meta because the people who stream their gamplay, play them and show how to play it effectively.

    For example; Until Teldo played Engie on stream and kicked butt doing it, no one knew how to play Engie. Engie was apparently atrocious and bad and the worst class that no one picked until Teldo showed us how to put one bomb in front of the other. Then everyone was like "ENGIE IS AMAZING WHAAAAAA????"

    LOL. thanks.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dominik.9721 said:
    meta builds are not only good against meta builds, like kitten do you even talk.
    meta builds faceroll any non meta builds, which is the reason they are meta - meta is what is the best / most effective.

    if you play meta you are able to compete with other meta builds, if you play non meta, you are in a disadvantage - simple as that.

    not true. Meta is a build that is focused on its role and is most effective in it in a certain manner. Which means they are 100 % effective in their field but if someone from outside of it comes = non meta they are going to face roll beat Meta

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Took you quite a long time to realize it or, perhaps, to gather the will to write it.

    I simply got fed up after I was dueling with reves in 1v1 arena and they all be like dude swap to s/d it is Meta what you are running isnt meta and that it is cancer and wat not cuz i run condi
    BS i am not cancer they are simply unable to face me since they are not equpied for it

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arkantos.7460 said:
    as long as meta wiki exist, ppl will still think that meta builds are the only viable ones
    just make a selfie build and play it .... you will earn so much hate from others ....

    that is the bad thing tho ppl hate on you cuz you are trying to play the game they way it is supposed to = the way you want.
    If you run selfie ppl shouldt be allowed to hate on you. 1st cuz it is your own choice and it is automatically okay since it is your game class build etc
    2nd cuz if you actually get results with it there is an actuall evidence it works so it should be acknowledged at best

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    People like to win.

    true but just because there is some script on how you can win it doesnt mean that is the only viable script
    and that is the point the script we have is not bulletproof and is not perfect
    Meta only works on Meta as i said

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Meta isn't a term given to builds that are there for no reason. They're called Meta because of how effective they are and also because many people are running the build.

    Effective in their field in the perticular manner of doing it
    which is why we have bunkers everywhere that will roast the hell out of you if you dont run power on them

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    meta is basically herd mentality. something can be effective against meta builds and not widely recognized, and because of this fact it is deemed inferior. its only until people realize that something might actually be good, some widely recognized person "creates this weird new way to play the game", the rest of the pack follows, and poof meta is made. ofc if you claim to have used something before anyone else, they'll laugh you out of the room cuz you're not famous. its funny as hell imo.

    for worse ppl who acutally use meta are going to cry about it and then it is going to get nerfed even if it wasnt supposed to be nerfed cuz it was opposing the meta which is just some group bs

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    meta is basically herd mentality. something can be effective against meta builds and not widely recognized, and because of this fact it is deemed inferior. its only until people realize that something might actually be good, some widely recognized person "creates this weird new way to play the game", the rest of the pack follows, and poof meta is made. ofc if you claim to have used something before anyone else, they'll laugh you out of the room cuz you're not famous. its funny as hell imo.

    Its true. The herd mentality is real man. Its amazing to see people rage just because you play something different. Meanwhile they are fighting off the point and are ineffective.

  • Ivantreil.3092Ivantreil.3092 Member ✭✭✭

    I at least get 1 "Core Engi? Really?" Message per day during my rankeds...

    Judging the build instead of the driver whose piloting the build, i eat holos who surely don't main the class in a daily basis, i recognize some great holos, but the ammount is few.

    Meta defenitely gives you a solid floor skill, but an experienced player has as even chances in a non-meta build, even outplay you if you trust too much on the build...

  • Sampson.2403Sampson.2403 Member ✭✭✭

    In some scenarios though, doesn't the team composition all need to be meta builds for any individual meta build to truly shine? Like a scourge without support isn't very "meta" but on the otherhand, a spellbreaker is always the best side noder for most team setups.

  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019

    Some players get away with off meta builds because they can compensate the disadvantage they are at by skill and game knowledge, but those are very few and usually known. And even they can get bitten in the kitten if they face equal players on more effective builds. Most people are suboptimal with off-meta builds, even though they still might get away with it if the opponents are worse or on suboptimal builds too or have to fight an overall bad comp. So, unless you are regularly P3/Legend or in mAT semis the place for offmeta builds is probably unranked.

    Obviously meta and off-meta are relative categories and there are some builds that are not considered meta but come fairly close to meta builds in effectiveness, while others are just overall bad.

    Falásya / Caissech

    "When you say it's gonna happen "now"
    When exactly do you mean?
    See I've already waited too long
    And all my hope is gone"
    The Smiths about Balance and PvP changes

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    no, you guys are misunderstanding my words. the meta is slow to change, it isn't an entirely accurate picture of what is most effective. mostly is. i remember seeing wars playing strength spellbreaker and engis playing prot holosmith before they were meta. its not like some guy just makes something up and everybody follows suit just because they saw it in an AT. regular people do it too. sure you can get away with playing off meta builds if you're good, as well as with certain comps... but that's not the point i'm trying to make.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    no, you guys are misunderstanding my words. the meta is slow to change, it isn't an entirely accurate picture of what is most effective. mostly is. i remember seeing wars playing strength spellbreaker and engis playing prot holosmith before they were meta. its not like some guy just makes something up and everybody follows suit just because they saw it in an AT. regular people do it too. sure you can get away with playing off meta builds if you're good, as well as with certain comps... but that's not the point i'm trying to make.

    you quoted urself from other thread xD you have reached lvl of DUDE I wouldnt dare to enter xD lol

  • @Jack Redline.5379 said:
    I am not being sarcastic or mean to anyone here right now

    Oh really? Nice try.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Honestly, I think at the HIGHER levels of play, meta builds only hurt you, because at that level, your opponents will know your tricks. You don't win by playing the standard stuff.

    Now, that's a general observation. It might be the case that in a game, even if your enemy can predict a standard approach, it could be so powerful they can't counter it no matter what class or skills they have ... I wouldn't know if that's the case in GW2. I've played games of BOTH types though and I think that it requires some really high caliber objective players to makes those assessments. The average scrub has no idea.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

    @Jack Redline.5379 said:
    I am not being sarcastic or mean to anyone here right now

    Oh really? Nice try.

    Thanks

  • Euthymias.7984Euthymias.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    You can get away with some non-meta builds in Ranked if you're that good at outplaying your enemies and playing your "role " that your custom build is designed for well. It starts to fall off in cases where your element of surprise vanishes and your enemies adapt to you, but if they arent at the level that's possible, there's some success to be had with such builds.

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019

    @reddie.5861 said:
    majority of people blame you for losing also, yet they are all scaled at silver gold or wherever ur in they are all equally bad as you are.

    Quoted for truth. Not saying I'm an amazing player, but the people who chew me out tend to not be that great either.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jack Redline.5379 said:
    A lot of ppl runs meta yea. And all of them are in high plat and the non meta builds cant reach them up there because of those Meta players who are still in gold and are huring the non meta build demographics. But that doesnt make Meta good. Meta is only good against Meta it cant fight anything non meta based.

    Honestly, this paragraph makes no sense.
    If meta builds don't beat non-meta builds, why do non-meta build players end up lower on the ratings than your average meta build players?

    Don't get me wrong, I don't advocate for meta builds or off-meta builds in particular. It's just that meta builds are meta builds for a reason. Don't forget that these meta builds may have been someone's non-meta build at the time of its inception. The current meta iteration of Spellbreaker that runs Strength was Tramadex's off-meta build at its introduction. The meta at the time ran Defense instead. The current meta is once removed from that but it's basically still the same build.
    Which is an argument for both sides of this. Meta builds are meta builds for a reason but there's also no reason really why you couldn't play an off-meta build.

    People that are passionately and solidly on either side of the argument are a bit insane IMO.

  • bluri.2653bluri.2653 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes we get that your condi (terrible build) can duel goldtier players who probably plays with their feet and you are tired of hearing people asking you to swap build.

    www.twitch.tv/sindrener - Rank 55 Dragons/Orange Logo/Team Aggression

  • toxic.3648toxic.3648 Member ✭✭✭

    Generally spam 3 condi thief is looked down upon because its noob mode . Not because its offmeta. Sure ppl might lose to it once or twice since its kitten af but after that they Will most likely faceroll u out of existence

    Toxicity Pengu to the rescue /o/

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    meta builds are most of the time the best option available, however you can make a build specifically to counter the most common aspects of the meta and gain the advantage of ppl not knowing how to counter you. but if you want to do that you need to be better then most at buildcrafting

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Euthymias.7984 said:
    You can get away with some non-meta builds in Ranked if you're that good at outplaying your enemies and playing your "role " that your custom build is designed for well. It starts to fall off in cases where your element of surprise vanishes and your enemies adapt to you, but if they arent at the level that's possible, there's some success to be had with such builds.

    depends on that off meta build rly. for example I am running my condi build for years and ppl know me well cuz of it and yes they are trying to counter it but i simply know how to change 2 3 traits according to what types of classes I face that it is hard to counter anyway. It is possible that it is because the build itself is rly good so it is hard to counter. (no i dont spam 3 all the time unless i am overwhelmed 2+v1) so i think that if the off meta build is good and skill is adequate it can prove that Meta isnt the only right way to go in this game and there are more simply not yet found out variants of how to go with your class which should be encouraged in new and old players

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yannir.4132 said:

    @Jack Redline.5379 said:
    A lot of ppl runs meta yea. And all of them are in high plat and the non meta builds cant reach them up there because of those Meta players who are still in gold and are huring the non meta build demographics. But that doesnt make Meta good. Meta is only good against Meta it cant fight anything non meta based.

    Honestly, this paragraph makes no sense.
    If meta builds don't beat non-meta builds, why do non-meta build players end up lower on the ratings than your average meta build players?

    Don't get me wrong, I don't advocate for meta builds or off-meta builds in particular. It's just that meta builds are meta builds for a reason. Don't forget that these meta builds may have been someone's non-meta build at the time of its inception. The current meta iteration of Spellbreaker that runs Strength was Tramadex's off-meta build at its introduction. The meta at the time ran Defense instead. The current meta is once removed from that but it's basically still the same build.
    Which is an argument for both sides of this. Meta builds are meta builds for a reason but there's also no reason really why you couldn't play an off-meta build.

    People that are passionately and solidly on either side of the argument are a bit insane IMO.

    I might say it in a bad way.
    The thing is this
    I will not use the right numbers this is just to make the paragraph sensible and as an example
    lets say 80% of players goes by Meta since it is THE META and 20% of palyers runs non meta
    If the mm matches these two groups anyhow there will still me more Meta palyers in the teams competing in match than those who run non meta, sometimes it simply ends up Meta vs Meta; If there is match of 5 v 5 this means 4 players in each team is most probably Meta players so they will have an adequate competition in the other team where it will matter who is more skilled within Meta circles. BUT there will be this one dude in each team that runs non meta and this dude either will excel against Meta builds or no non the less if his team looses the Meta players (4) will get rank up along with him. Which makes base of 4 Meta players closer to plat (this is pre set high rank as all say) and 1 non meta player closer to plat. There is higher chance that some of those 4 ppl get again higher than there is chance that this 1 non meta guy gets higher. he would have to win each single match he has to get there since all his effort is 100% affecting his rank. Out of those 4 ppl 50% of them doesnt need to rank up higher and ends still in gold 23 but the other 2 will simply get higher since the Meta base is esentially bigger than non meta. That is why Meta players wind up all the way up since they excel in fighting meta players and statistically the numbers are on their side so the majority of high rank is Meta.
    I hope it was more understandable i am not rly Math genius but this is how i remember statistics work (sort of) xD and It actually applies.
    More Meta to choose from to get higher the more gets there
    If there was more non meta players there would be more to choose from and then more would wind up higher.

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bluri.2653 said:
    Yes we get that your condi (terrible build) can duel goldtier players who probably plays with their feet and you are tired of hearing people asking you to swap build.

    And i almost thought you woulndt show up. OOf lul. Well okay i note this as well. Yea my ''terrible'' condi builds can 1v1 gold tier players. Yes that is true. I only wish my buddies from 1v1 Arenas would be here to prove me right. If you know Aylyka for example. That is a thief i srsly acknowledge in the game. He runs that Meta s/d as well and he could confirm i can beat even higher tier plat since he is one. And we duel a lot together. Also there are many other classes high tier I just cant pull out the names of each of them out of the hat since i dont have that big hat. Ask some ppl from easy or Bait or StaB guilds (like i know you won't) but those who know me and already fought me can confirm that my build is hard to deal with. I dont want to prove this any further to you. I asked you multiple times to come and duel with me. So far you fight only with words so i have nothing to say on this matter to you mate.

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @toxic.3648 said:
    Generally spam 3 condi thief is looked down upon because its noob mode . Not because its offmeta. Sure ppl might lose to it once or twice since its kitten af but after that they Will most likely faceroll u out of existence

    I have mentioned it before i dont spam 3. My build is focused on interupting opponents. I mainly fight with sb using choking gass and my Traps and swipe for interupts to stack tornment poison and bleeding on opponent. I reach for my d/d when i need to reset or when i am overwhelmed after casting dagger storm. I dont use spam 3 because I mainly use dancing dagger as a projectile from the poison or other field. Just for the note. Only case I srsly start spamming 3 is when I see an LB boon beast comming to me on far/close and i am already fighting someone and that is actually the case when i die the most often since 3 spam will get you killed more often that it will help you survive. Jus'sayin'

  • And when you faceroll with an offmeta build they call you a cheater because it's impossible to perform better with a no copy/paste build ~~.
    It's the same issue in every mmorpg anyway, most of players trusts only websites and don't care to at least try to make their own builds;
    Funny thing is, when a balance patch hits, they are like " Oh my god the sites are not updated wat I gona dooo I'm lost " and they stop playing, complaining, waiting for an update.
    Learning EVERY sides of the classes you like is the most important thing to do IMO.
    Just learn to build yourselves, the more players theorycrafting the more discoveries and diversity we will get.

    Also, metabuilds doesn't makes you better as a player, because you constently need someone to tell you what to do to be efficient every patch note.
    They are useful to see what is needed in the current state of the game / gamemode, but you don't have to blindly follow everything, use what you feel is needed..etc.

  • Erzian.5218Erzian.5218 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 27, 2019

    Being able to 1v1 random players doesn‘t prove that a build is good. I can also 1v1 some spell breakers on core guard but guess what, as soon as I face a spell breaker who plays on a similar level I just get stomped. Apart from that, the ability to 1v1 alone, does not make for a great build, not even for side nodes. You also need to be able to contest the node against all other popular side node builds or at least beat those builds very quickly, you need the ability to stall/survive +1s and you should be useful in smaller skirmishes as well. If you want to compete with spell breaker, you need to have impact in team fights too.

  • Edge.8724Edge.8724 Member ✭✭✭

    I was playing an unranked match. One of our teammates realised most of the team was not playing meta builds. He started raging at everyone in the chat about that and then rage-quited.

    Also, I was in unranked, kinda funny to meet those kind of people here.

    But honestly, @Only Even.6193 is right in every way with his post. There is nothing wrong playing a meta or non-meta build, the most important thing is to learn and know your profession.

    As for me, I like to check those meta builds, but I then change some things that suits me. I craft my own builds too, trying different things.

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    thumbs up can give both so i gave like this mate good point

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Erzian.5218 said:

    spellbreaker isnt rly top notch to be used as an example here even a berserker is more dangerous now

  • Zenix.6198Zenix.6198 Member ✭✭✭

    I get the feeling you dont exactly understand what a "meta" is or why it exists in the first place.

    A meta-game evolves, when people tailor and customize their builds and characters for a specific task and consider all the "meta-data" they have available.
    It is basically the opposite of roleplay, where performance is valued over flavor.
    Obviously, a meta is heavily influenced by the given scenario and objective, like (more GW2 specific) the gamemode.
    This is why Pve, PvP and WvW meta compositions look very differently.
    Like, while a sword weaver is trash in WvW zerging, It's fairly decent in PvP node-holding due to different requirements and game objectives.
    So the statement that "meta builds are only good vs other meta builds", isn't really true.

    As to why certain things are "more meta" than other things, is a bit more intricate, but mostly has to do with plain performance.
    Firebrand for instance is simply a much better support than any other spec right now and therefor can be said to be "meta-defining".
    Same goes for scourge in terms of teamfight damage capabilities.

    The thing you are talking about, is more about the "anti-meta" rather than plain "off-meta".
    Which is a fair argument to be honest.

    S/D core thief replacing D/P daredevil as the "meta pick" for conquest for instance, was mostly due to it's ability to deal way, way better with firebrand.
    Or the shift from marauder to demolisher amulet on certain specs, since power damage has become far more relevant than condi damage.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jack Redline.5379 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    no, you guys are misunderstanding my words. the meta is slow to change, it isn't an entirely accurate picture of what is most effective. mostly is. i remember seeing wars playing strength spellbreaker and engis playing prot holosmith before they were meta. its not like some guy just makes something up and everybody follows suit just because they saw it in an AT. regular people do it too. sure you can get away with playing off meta builds if you're good, as well as with certain comps... but that's not the point i'm trying to make.

    you quoted urself from other thread xD you have reached lvl of DUDE I wouldnt dare to enter xD lol

    what? I didn't quote myself from another thread lol. just stahp.

    you don't know till you know, ya know.

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenix.6198 said:

    A meta-game evolves, when people tailor and customize their builds and characters for a specific task and consider all the "meta-data" they have available.

    I agree with this. Yea meta is specifically designed for each class to be focused on their objective ina ceratin way (which is according to the data the best) The thing is tho that the data is not evaluated absolutelly as a whole since that would take too much time and testing. Meta is from ppl to ppl. That is why since ppl doing it figured that power dmg deals with enemy faster than condi (in most cases) they have chosen the power dmg data from the whole and that is what is an issue i am trying to oppose.

    So the statement that "meta builds are only good vs other meta builds", isn't really true.

    But this is to a big extent true. And it is proovable. Lets say as many ppl mention that Spellbreaker is excelent side noder and is hard to beat since it has tons of stuns and what not. But this is only a result we got from cutting up the data Meta has chosen which is again the power based dmg and playstyle since it is faster than condi one. Spellbreaker tho cant stand a chance against any good condi build (at least a decent one) Meta Herald which can be srsly beaten only by 4 power build ppl doesnt stand a chance against anything that even spits bleeds or tornment on him Meta Scourge as well. Yea the fields are nice and what it deals tons of dps but if some class simply can clean out condi and can interupt Scourges casts it crumbles like a house of cards. (I have seen and dont it countless times) I realize that if you put lets say Rifle core warior against even a sword weaver he wont stand a chance. Yea that is those kind of srsly troll builds. But a decent off meta build that is supposed to be durrable deal dmg that is hard to counter will definitelly roll over Meta build.

    As to why certain things are "more meta" than other things, is a bit more intricate, but mostly has to do with plain performance.

    I will disagree on this and i will explain why
    the reason why some classes in meta are more meta than others is because of the type of classes attacks
    Majority of Meta rn is (my term) Casters = They cast their attacks = it takes some time until the attack is finished and it can be interrupted if the caster doesnt have stability or some sort of block for interrupts
    LB boonbeast is a caster his attacks are interuptable take a time to cast
    Herald Weaver Scourge are heavily caster based classes
    Spellbreaker is sort of a caster if we take in consideration those splits of seconds when he casts DD attacks
    Deadeye is actually a caster since all his rifle attacks have duration so they can be interupted
    Holo and Guardian are casters but have a lot of blocks so i dont count it rly cuz that requires a different apporach
    Mirage has clones so you have to see him to be able to interupt casts

    So as you can see the current Meta is heavily based around casting your attacks and that is why the class that has better boon support is more meta the faster they cast the more meta they become because they are able to ''outcast'' the other class. That is why Holo and Soulbeast are so OP cuz of the superspeed and quickness and might. Their attacks are strong and fast hard to interupt or ''outcast''

    The thing you are talking about, is more about the "anti-meta" rather than plain "off-meta".
    Which is a fair argument to be honest.

    Thx i appreciate and yea anti meta can definitelly beat the hell out of Meta if they counter caster kind of class

    S/D core thief replacing D/P daredevil as the "meta pick" for conquest for instance, was mostly due to it's ability to deal way, way better with firebrand.

    S/d is only so good cuz of the speed as i mentioned above It has power and can interput effectivelly. And that is why Daredevil was nerfed by Swipe because the range was simply too much adn we could interupt caster meta a lot.

    Or the shift from marauder to demolisher amulet on certain specs, since power damage has become far more relevant than condi damage.

    Power dmg is not more relevant. Both condi and power dmg are equally relevant but atm it srsly matters who applies which faster. That is why the game is so kitten rn cuz it is basically Camping on Dust 2 staring through the mid doors with Awps and the one who clicks first and faster wins the fight. There is no player vs player battle in that and that is why I made this thread cuz it is not fun and ppl simply believe it is the good way w/o even knowing what the meta is based on and why it srsly isnt the only and the best way to get results in pvp

  • Jack Redline.5379Jack Redline.5379 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    what? I didn't quote myself from another thread lol. just stahp.

    I am defo sure I have seen you write this once before... I cant recall which thread it was but i srsly remember these words and ur name above them xD dunno why tho it just hit my eyes so much i had to say it :D no hard feelings i agree with that it just seemed familiar xD

  • dominik.9721dominik.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    This guy literally says players of the champions league are only good against other cl players and would have trouble to defeat a third league soccer team - lmfao

  • Meta means most effective. Player skill > meta builds, any high skill player can get to plat playing any build that fills a role. However, if you face a meta team vs a non meta team of equal skill, the meta team would win every time, which is the reason why its meta.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All these post and FUN doesnt seem to be much of a factor which seems weird considering the topic is based around a video game. Maybe implementing rewards for each individual player based on their performance in each match with a additional reward for the team if all players preformed well. If a players does very little to contribute to the match ie very little kills,recaps,full caps or alot of deaths they will lose standings not the teammates. Maybe that's a horrible idea but might make the mode more forgiving for people to play the builds they enjoy and not just what they kno is optimal as some meta builds gotta be boring for people by now. Also the players chosing meta builds wouldn't be punished by teammates trying various builds for fun.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    All these post and FUN doesnt seem to be much of a factor which seems weird considering the topic is based around a video game. Maybe implementing rewards for each individual player based on their performance in each match with a additional reward for the team if all players preformed well. If a players does very little to contribute to the match ie very little kills,recaps,full caps or alot of deaths they will lose standings not the teammates. Maybe that's a horrible idea but might make the mode more forgiving for people to play the builds they enjoy and not just what they kno is optimal as some meta builds gotta be boring for people by now. Also the players chosing meta builds wouldn't be punished by teammates trying various builds for fun.

    Fun = Winning

    Winning = Meta Builds

    Fun = Meta Builds

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭

    Im not even bother going through your text wall, there is a reason meta builds are meta, and it's because they perform better in almost any environment and with any player, low or high skilled.

    Game is not blocking from play whichever build you want, just play the builds you have fun and if the build is viable you can even climb to high plat as we still seeing eles up in the ranks

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