Upcoming class changes

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upcoming_changes_and_features/2019-07-16

Chrono just took a pretty big nose dive off the nerf cliff.

Not sure it's gonna be great for chronomancers in zergs.I mean, the new shatters can be fun, but i can't think of much ways to get a clone up and "keep" it "alive" enough so we can shatter and proc at least the continuum shift.

Maybe with the 2 on scepter... if we use it good enough and we don't lose them in those giants AoE from scourges, revs and weavers.

Seems like we're not gonna see much from the zerg chronos anymore, which is sad.

I dont know what to think about chrono changes ,no clones no shatters while they are thin as paper.... Scary...And no nerfs on chaos interrupt which means mesmer going to have more and more hate day after day

Very curious about the "The mirage gains a copy of any boon removed" bit in dune cloak. I personally don't think it'll work on shattered concentration but if it does it'll make mesmer too strong (even if shattered concentration is often negligible with so many boons pooped out). Either way this trait sacrifices the damage opportunity for IH for a decent teamfight potential, making mirage quite boon heavy in this meta without chaos traitline.

@"praqtos.9035" said:I dont know what to think about chrono changes ,no clones no shatters while they are thin as paper.... Scary...And no nerfs on chaos interrupt which means mesmer going to have more and more hate day after day

Chaos interrupt will fall in the unused builds like it always be once people start playing with condiclear and more defense again.BTW about the note :

• What did they mean by the illusion counter ? it may be my bad english but I don't get it.
• Speed of Sand = no superspeed reset when using master of manipulation.
• Chrono shatter : it's a shatter mecanics like without IP and we lose F4 invul. Need to see the numbers.
• Dune cloak : can be pretty good with boon removal.
• Auspicious anguish : hudge survival nerf for all chaos builds. (Hopefully I switched to no chaos builds.)

Will see how did it perform with other changes.

BTW WHERE IS THE GLAMOUR TRAIT : https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/72428/when-will-the-glamour-trait-come-backCome on please...

@viquing.8254 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:I dont know what to think about chrono changes ,no clones no shatters while they are thin as paper.... Scary...And no nerfs on chaos interrupt which means mesmer going to have more and more hate day after day

• What did they mean by the illusion counter ? it may be my bad english but I don't get it.
• Speed of Sand = no superspeed reset when using master of manipulation.
• Chrono shatter : it's a shatter mecanics like without IP and we lose F4 invul. Need to see the numbers.
• Dune cloak : can be pretty good with boon removal.
• Auspicious anguish : hudge survival nerf for all chaos builds. (Hopefully I switched to no chaos builds.)

the three purple/pink dots next to shatters now reflect on non-shattered clones only rather than included ones running towards enemy for shatter.

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:I dont know what to think about chrono changes ,no clones no shatters while they are thin as paper.... Scary...And no nerfs on chaos interrupt which means mesmer going to have more and more hate day after day

• What did they mean by the illusion counter ? it may be my bad english but I don't get it.
• Speed of Sand = no superspeed reset when using master of manipulation.
• Chrono shatter : it's a shatter mecanics like without IP and we lose F4 invul. Need to see the numbers.
• Dune cloak : can be pretty good with boon removal.
• Auspicious anguish : hudge survival nerf for all chaos builds. (Hopefully I switched to no chaos builds.)

To clarify further, it's a cosmetic change only and has no gameplay implications.

The changes to chrono being unable to self-shatter, on the other hand, is pretty devastating for any hope of mesmer being usable in WvW groups. It's also just generally a miserable change from a QoL perspective. There's a good reason why almost every single build in vanilla took illusionary persona until it became baseline.

I think that they need to rework clone survivability. It's annoying having something so core to your class able to be destroyed by AOE. Group fights in PVP suck for this reason and it occaisionally gives me crap in PVE too. Reading these changes without seeing any mention of tweaking to the core class mechanic is quite disappointing....

The other disappointing thing is this looks like a nerf (I'm a noob to this game and chrono, but I'm generally good with game mechanics across games). I'm still working on my boon support chrono gear set, but at face value it feels like they're going to make it harder to sustain the core Chrono buffs with less shatters available. Like Mesmer already looks like it only has 1 role when I'm searching snow crows and meta battle and I don't feel like this looks like it's opening up new roles and appears to take away from our only active one.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:I dont know what to think about chrono changes ,no clones no shatters while they are thin as paper.... Scary...And no nerfs on chaos interrupt which means mesmer going to have more and more hate day after day

• What did they mean by the illusion counter ? it may be my bad english but I don't get it.
• Speed of Sand = no superspeed reset when using master of manipulation.
• Chrono shatter : it's a shatter mecanics like without IP and we lose F4 invul. Need to see the numbers.
• Dune cloak : can be pretty good with boon removal.
• Auspicious anguish : hudge survival nerf for all chaos builds. (Hopefully I switched to no chaos builds.)

@Firebeard.1746 said:The other disappointing thing is this looks like a nerf (I'm a noob to this game and chrono, but I'm generally good with game mechanics across games). I'm still working on my boon support chrono gear set, but at face value it feels like they're going to make it harder to sustain the core Chrono buffs with less shatters available. Like Mesmer already looks like it only has 1 role when I'm searching snow crows and meta battle and I don't feel like this looks like it's opening up new roles and appears to take away from our only active one.

Technically speaking, it's not a nerf exactly, it's a mechanical change. Realistically speaking, however, it makes chrono even more clunky and unfun to play.

This has been a pattern in the last year or so of changes for chrono. The class is still technically functional/viable/good. However, when you actually get to playing it...it feels miserable. It's clunky, the mechanics don't work well together, it's a struggle against the game itself just to play the class. It feels awful.

Unfortunately Dune Cloak looks like it will only grant a copy of each boon rather than stealing them. Going to guess that it will prioritize boons like swiftness, might, and regen rather than boons like vigor, protection, and stab which will end up at the bottom of the list.

Speculating/predicting for the future of Mirage based on Chrono changes:

Am thinking Clone Ambush (from IH) gets separated from Dodge - instead Clone Ambush becomes the new default F1 which orders your clones to ambush (assuming shatter damage traits would either proc on hit of ambush or in the case of boons etc be granted directly on skill activation.Dodge itself would just open ambush skills for the player only, and allow you to put evade frames wherever you like in combat.

That could also be the remedy for IH being so crucial at the moment - then all mirage has access to F1 ambush activation for clones, with cooldown adjusted appropriately.

F2 could be a second ambush with some different application, maybe adding stacks of confusion to ambush.

F3 likewise another ambush with built in daze - things like Sword/Trident would still have daze/stun for the player on dodge, but all clone daze/stun on ambush would be accessed from F3 only

F4 is difficult but could be just Desert Distortion as a skill - turning all clones into mirrors and granting mirage cloak to self or something.

And then of course the traits...For Grandmaster majors, would mean IH just becomes "give clones dodge when you do", but no ambush - because that would be tied to F1. Essentially just a clone preservation trait. So perhaps would need some additional utility to make it worthwile.Elusive Mind of course needs anything desperately to be a viable defensive option.And the Dune Cloak change looks good tbh - would be a reasonable choice with all ambushes moved to "Shatters".

Desert Distortion would need to be replaced by a new trait if it became the new Mirage F4 as standard.

For the record, not saying I'm fully behind any of these speculations - all just off top of head, and likely numerous conflicts/issues. Point is it looks highly likely that Mirage will get some kind of F1-4 rework treatment in the future, so trying to think of what that could be.

Edit - just thought of something else. As mirage would then have no way to "Shatter" clones outside of F4, there should be a minor trait that makes the last overwritten clone (if at max cap of 3 clones and spawning a new one) spawn a Mirror at its location. So there would be reward to continued clone production rather than just letting them overwrite each other with no benefit, given you wouldn't be able to shatter.

@Firebeard.1746 said:Like Mesmer already looks like it only has 1 role

It has more than one role but it depends on the boss (like Mirage is great on certain fights) but the main one is still Chrono so to see them making it so unfun to play more and more with each patch is very disappointing.

I think the bottom line is the fact Anet for the first time in the history of the game shows they are willing to make unique (at least to some extent) "Shatter" skills is a huge deal.

Yes it looks pretty kitten for Chrono right now given how stupid mesmer was without IP in the past - and ideally this kind of change should be aggressively kept on top of and followed up with more changes to make it work as needed. The big problem is we likely won't see any more until another 3 months... so Chrono will kitten in whatever state it ends up next week. :/

Principle is fantastic, really good to see them willing to do something with the F skills which also gives hope for the next elite spec to have new F skills from the beginning. Delivery/execution and continued changes in light of consequences however is something else... I hope I'm proven wrong and we see some follow up changes over the next few weeks.

Speed of Sand: Instead of granting superspeed when dodging, this trait instead causes Mirage Cloak to grant +66% movement speed.34%nerf? >...> But why tho?

Dune cloak might be interesting as a boon strip+absorption at a 1.0 coefficient.I'm guessing it'll still be inferior to EM in most settings, but might make ambushes on power builds that aren't split surge worth something... Maybe..

Speed of Sand: Instead of granting superspeed when dodging, this trait instead causes Mirage Cloak to grant +66% movement speed.What does this actually mean in practice, I've forgotten how speed caps work.

@"Curunen.8729" said:Speculating/predicting for the future of Mirage based on Chrono changes:

Am thinking Clone Ambush (from IH) gets separated from Dodge - instead Clone Ambush becomes the new default F1 which orders your clones to ambush (assuming shatter damage traits would either proc on hit of ambush or in the case of boons etc be granted directly on skill activation.Dodge itself would just open ambush skills for the player only, and allow you to put evade frames wherever you like in combat.

That could also be the remedy for IH being so crucial at the moment - then all mirage has access to F1 ambush activation for clones, with cooldown adjusted appropriately.

F2 could be a second ambush with some different application, maybe adding stacks of confusion to ambush.

F3 likewise another ambush with built in daze - things like Sword/Trident would still have daze/stun for the player on dodge, but all clone daze/stun on ambush would be accessed from F3 only

F4 is difficult but could be just Desert Distortion as a skill - turning all clones into mirrors and granting mirage cloak to self or something.

And then of course the traits...For Grandmaster majors, would mean IH just becomes "give clones dodge when you do", but no ambush - because that would be tied to F1. Essentially just a clone preservation trait. So perhaps would need some additional utility to make it worthwile.Elusive Mind of course needs anything desperately to be a viable defensive option.And the Dune Cloak change looks good tbh - would be a reasonable choice with all ambushes moved to "Shatters".

Desert Distortion would need to be replaced by a new trait if it became the new Mirage F4 as standard.

For the record, not saying I'm fully behind any of these speculations - all just off top of head, and likely numerous conflicts/issues. Point is it looks highly likely that Mirage will get some kind of F1-4 rework treatment in the future, so trying to think of what that could be.

PvE Mirage flows together so well and this would be devastating to the actual fun factor, which based on Chrono means that is probably what they are going to do. I am going to point out again though on the off chance an Anet employee is reading, mirage already has a trade off since you nerfed cloak duration, its dodges are worse for defense then other classes.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:I dont know what to think about chrono changes ,no clones no shatters while they are thin as paper.... Scary...And no nerfs on chaos interrupt which means mesmer going to have more and more hate day after day

• What did they mean by the illusion counter ? it may be my bad english but I don't get it.
• Speed of Sand = no superspeed reset when using master of manipulation.
• Chrono shatter : it's a shatter mecanics like without IP and we lose F4 invul. Need to see the numbers.
• Dune cloak : can be pretty good with boon removal.
• Auspicious anguish : hudge survival nerf for all chaos builds. (Hopefully I switched to no chaos builds.)

True but they were looking for a way to add a trade off to chrono, what would in your opinion be a fair tradeoff?

@zealex.9410 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:I dont know what to think about chrono changes ,no clones no shatters while they are thin as paper.... Scary...And no nerfs on chaos interrupt which means mesmer going to have more and more hate day after day

• What did they mean by the illusion counter ? it may be my bad english but I don't get it.
• Speed of Sand = no superspeed reset when using master of manipulation.
• Chrono shatter : it's a shatter mecanics like without IP and we lose F4 invul. Need to see the numbers.
• Dune cloak : can be pretty good with boon removal.
• Auspicious anguish : hudge survival nerf for all chaos builds. (Hopefully I switched to no chaos builds.)

They got rid of distortion, did you not notice that?

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:I dont know what to think about chrono changes ,no clones no shatters while they are thin as paper.... Scary...And no nerfs on chaos interrupt which means mesmer going to have more and more hate day after day

• What did they mean by the illusion counter ? it may be my bad english but I don't get it.
• Speed of Sand = no superspeed reset when using master of manipulation.
• Chrono shatter : it's a shatter mecanics like without IP and we lose F4 invul. Need to see the numbers.
• Dune cloak : can be pretty good with boon removal.
• Auspicious anguish : hudge survival nerf for all chaos builds. (Hopefully I switched to no chaos builds.)

Well they rolled it to cs but ye. You reckon that would be enough?

@zealex.9410 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:I dont know what to think about chrono changes ,no clones no shatters while they are thin as paper.... Scary...And no nerfs on chaos interrupt which means mesmer going to have more and more hate day after day

• What did they mean by the illusion counter ? it may be my bad english but I don't get it.
• Speed of Sand = no superspeed reset when using master of manipulation.
• Chrono shatter : it's a shatter mecanics like without IP and we lose F4 invul. Need to see the numbers.
• Dune cloak : can be pretty good with boon removal.
• Auspicious anguish : hudge survival nerf for all chaos builds. (Hopefully I switched to no chaos builds.)

Not exactly. CS provides 1 second of distortion upon activation with the changes. This means that the access to distortion has a much longer cooldown, does not scale in duration, and requires you to waste CS if you're only using it for distortion. Effectively, they removed the shatter and just buffed CS slightly.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:I dont know what to think about chrono changes ,no clones no shatters while they are thin as paper.... Scary...And no nerfs on chaos interrupt which means mesmer going to have more and more hate day after day

• What did they mean by the illusion counter ? it may be my bad english but I don't get it.
• Speed of Sand = no superspeed reset when using master of manipulation.
• Chrono shatter : it's a shatter mecanics like without IP and we lose F4 invul. Need to see the numbers.
• Dune cloak : can be pretty good with boon removal.
• Auspicious anguish : hudge survival nerf for all chaos builds. (Hopefully I switched to no chaos builds.)

Did they buff cs if you have to spawn a clone to use it? I really feel like with portal they went abit too ham on this, tho idk with which ones of these changes i would rather see the most be reverted. The removal of self shatter and having to spawn at least one clone to shatter is also basically the same thing.

@"Firebeard.1746" said:I think that they need to rework clone survivability. It's annoying having something so core to your class able to be destroyed by AOE. Group fights in PVP suck for this reason and it occaisionally gives me kitten in PVE too. Reading these changes without seeing any mention of tweaking to the core class mechanic is quite disappointing....

Might need some rework like the gyros. These guys had a lifebar and a hitbox too until Anet just decided to turn them into moving wells for scrappers.

Clones are like rangers and necro pets. Except that they are more weaker than the others.I keep thinking about it but i don't see how my chrono that i just love to play in WvW zergs is gonna, at least, be useful after this "rework". Only one gravity, one Veil and the rest of the fight is just waiting for pull and trying to proc alacrity...

@zealex.9410 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:I dont know what to think about chrono changes ,no clones no shatters while they are thin as paper.... Scary...And no nerfs on chaos interrupt which means mesmer going to have more and more hate day after day

• What did they mean by the illusion counter ? it may be my bad english but I don't get it.
• Speed of Sand = no superspeed reset when using master of manipulation.
• Chrono shatter : it's a shatter mecanics like without IP and we lose F4 invul. Need to see the numbers.
• Dune cloak : can be pretty good with boon removal.
• Auspicious anguish : hudge survival nerf for all chaos builds. (Hopefully I switched to no chaos builds.)

A trade off doesn't have to mean "you'll sacrifice this and won't be able to play your favourite game mode, but you can still go in others you don't like so much".Especially since the last months have been almost nothing but nerfs against mesmers/chronos/mirages weapons and mechanics because "they're too powerful"

I'm really excited to test these changes. They finally put some work and thought into making Chrono feel like a real Espec instead of just Mesmer with Continuum Split tacked on. I do agree losing Illusionary Persona absolutely kills the entire spec in WvW. That's more of a problem with how clones function, though. Which should be something they consider adjusting in the future.

They actually CHANGED things. I'm still in shock.