Upcoming Engineer Balance Changes — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Upcoming Engineer Balance Changes

Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited July 11, 2019 in Engineer

Engineer

Scrappers are seeing a comprehensive rework in this update, targeted at improving the Function Gyro to be more of a core mechanic and unifying some of the disparate themes present in the trait line. These changes aim to refocus the scrapper as a tank-like character that utilizes personal barrier applications to stay in a fight. The reworked Impact Savant trait links barrier with dealing damage, making the scrapper a durable combatant as long as they can keep dishing out damage. The refocus on barrier led us to the removal of the Rapid Regeneration trait, which was offering too much health recovery while remaining protected by barrier. Players will still want to have swiftness and superspeed, though, to help dish out that damage with one of the new traits: Object in Motion. Beyond focusing scrappers more clearly around their personal barrier application, their unique Function Gyro mechanic becomes a ground-targeted skill in the F5 slot, which can be enhanced based on trait selection and acts as a general-use ability rather than a niche option for sometimes reviving an ally or finishing a downed enemy. In addition to reworking the scrapper traits, we're also slightly increasing the penalty for holosmiths overheating, as it wasn't commensurate with the level of power granted by holoforge mode.

  • Overload: Overloading now disables all toolbelt skills for its duration.
  • Blowtorch: This skill now applies 4 stacks of burning that scales dynamically between 3 and 6 seconds based on distance from the target. This skill now scales damage dynamically based on distance rather than using distance thresholds.
  • Blunderbuss: This skill now respects line of sight.
  • Bulwark Gyro: This skill now scales the initial personal barrier it grants with the number of allies you are redirecting damage from. The base barrier granted has been reduced to account for the higher potential initial gain. Barrier amount is no longer split by game mode as a result. Fixed a bug with an incorrect skill fact for barrier amount.
  • Elixir X: The cooldown is now 105 seconds in all game modes.
  • Hip Shot: Fixed a bug that could cause this skill's projectiles to follow their target.
  • Net Shot: Fixed a bug that could allow this skill to be fired backward.
  • Invisible Analysis: This trait now applies 5 seconds of fury when it activates.
  • Laser's Edge: The bonus damage from this trait is now calculated dynamically based on the amount of heat you have rather than activating after passing a specific heat threshold. Because of this change, the effect icon will no longer be displayed. Bonus damage is now multiplicative instead of additive.
  • Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit: This trait now increases the bonus damage maximum from Laser's Edge by 50% in addition to its previous effects.
  • Scrapper—Function Gyro: While scrapper specialization is equipped, this skill now occupies the F5 slot. Recharge has been increased to 30 seconds. This skill trait is now ground targeted at a range of 600 and creates a lightning field at the target point with a radius of 180. Within this radius, it spawns up to 6 function gyros targeting up to 3 enemies and/or 3 allies. Enemies are finished while allies are revived. This skill's recharge is increased by 50% for each function gyro spawned beyond the first.
  • Scrapper traits have been reworked and repositioned. The specialization line has changed as follows:
    • Minor
      • Function Gyro: The Function Gyro skill has been reworked. See previous note for details.
      • Speed of Synergy: This new trait causes all leap finishers to give superspeed to the scrapper, and all blast finishers give superspeed in an area around you.
      • Impact Savant: This trait no longer increases damage while you have barrier. Instead it converts 15% of all outgoing strike damage into barrier and reduces vitality by 300.
    • Adept
      • Gyroscopic Acceleration: This new trait causes wells to give superspeed when they end and increases well radius. Additionally, it causes your function gyro skill to give superspeed in an area when cast.
      • System Shocker: This new trait causes your function gyro to inflict daze in an area for 0.5 seconds when cast. Improves effectiveness of all lightning field finishers by 50%.
      • Mass Momentum: This trait has been moved to the adept tier. It no longer grants power based on toughness. Instead it causes your function gyro to grant stability in an area when cast in addition to causing stability to pulse might.
    • Master
      • Damage Dampener: This new trait causes 20% of all damage dealt to you to be dealt after a 2-second delay from the initial strike. In PvE only, the damage delay is increased to 33%.
      • Expert Examination: This trait has received no changes.
      • Object in Motion: This new trait increases outgoing damage by 5% if you have swiftness, superspeed, or stability. Each boon increases the bonus damage by 5%, up to a maximum of 15% if you have all three.
    • Grandmaster
      • Adaptive Armor: This trait no longer gives barrier when struck. Instead, it increases the barrier received by 15%, in addition to reducing condition damage by 20% while you have a barrier.
      • Kinetic Stabilizers: This trait is no longer triggered by Function Gyro. Instead it increases the duration of stuns and daze effects by 25%. It also grants stability and superspeed when disabling a foe.
      • Applied Force: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now also grants +200 power while you have quickness. It now grants quickness when at or above 10 stacks of might rather than only when above 10 stacks. Fixed various bugs that could cause inconsistent trigger behavior.

My thoughts on the matter:

Toolbelt skills

  • Say bye bye to detection pulse (Gyro F5 skill)! Our only reveal will now be our Lock On trait. Analysis from Utility goggles won't be used.
  • Also say goodbye to F5 toolbelt skills in general - now core is the only one that can access them, making them less relevant than before.
  • Disabling toolbelt skills on overheat will hurt PvE DPS builds that rely on Photonic Blasting Module

Rifle Changes

  • Blunderbuss is now respecting LOS? It's been 7 years, and it's a problem now? Consider my mind boggled.
  • Hip shot nerf is beyond comprehension. It was the only skill on rifle that tracked targets, and almost all other classes get skills that track. Now, people will be able to strafe left and right and avoid rifle even more.
  • Net shot nerf is reverting something they added not that long ago. Don't label it as a bug when you specifically introduced the ability to fire it behind us.
  • Many engineer MH weapons are weak as-is. They're making one of our more important ones even weaker.

Holo Changes

  • Laser's Edge/ECSU change seems theoretically interesting. Here's a protip though ANet: Make ECSU affect Exceed skills.

Scrapper Changes

  • Bulwark gyro change is what I wanted. Good.
  • Function gyro improvements are appreciated. It will be more useful in WvW and PvE now.
  • Changes to scrapper traits seem to leave healing scrapper intact, although the toolbelt change hurts healing scrappers.
  • Impact Savant Change is interesting. We'll need to experiment with it to see what happens now.
  • I'm not sure how Damage Dampener will fit into any build besides healer, but maybe my thinking is limited.
  • Object in Motion seems too conditional.
  • Applied Force buff makes quickness scrappers look real dangerous. We might see gimmick builds like the drunk scrapper reappear.

Other Changes

  • Elixir X change is fine. The world needs less Rampage.

What Didn't Change

  • Throw Elixir S is the same
  • Healing Turret is the same
  • Photon Forge is mostly unaffected -- Rifle got nerfs instead.
  • No real improvements to core besides blowtorch

The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

<13

Comments

  • ParadoX.3124ParadoX.3124 Member ✭✭

    I am glad with changes on Scrapper.
    Didn't use F5 anyway since I was only using mortar but it will definitly hurt tactical on WVW.

    With changes on Holo, we might consider Sword Shield - Enhanced Capacity Storage Unit - Laser's Edge on PVE.
    It changes nothing on PvP and WVW since overloading always was a malus.

  • Anet why change function gyro? It was absolutely fine the way it was. Now we’re forced to play a bruiser that does up to 35% less damage.

  • The removal of elite toolbelt skills, as well as general removal of diverse damaging traits, is effectively killing a unique way to play Scrapper in PvP. I am entirely not looking forward to these changes.

    Function Gyro was a fine skill on its own. There was NO reason to change it. It was not part of any of the problems Scrapper had.

  • redwing.9580redwing.9580 Member ✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    now I'm no game dev, and I'd like some clarification from the devs, but wouldn't damage dampener only cause the enemies on hit sigils to have a second chance to proc? because that sounds like it only makes it a hindrance to the player, also really don't like them moving mass momentum to adept, it would have given support scrapper good access to stab but now it has to compete with their main source of super speed

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    • Hip shot nerf is beyond comprehension. It was the only skill on rifle that tracked targets, and almost all other classes get skills that track. Now, people will be able to strafe left and right and avoid rifle even more.

    This bug fix is fine. What "almost all other classes" have auto attack fast moving projectiles that track? Also it pierces and is the highest damage Rifle auto attack out of the 3 Rifle users. Your outrage at this is beyond comprehension.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Ivantreil.3092Ivantreil.3092 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    I agree with the weird nerfs to rifle, the no LoS effect was one of the very few skills we had to play against enemies hiding behind objects or walls without looking like a fool chasing the enemy hopelessly.

    Welp, at least it still ignores projectile hate.

    Net shot nerf is meh, i used it mainly for Open moa combos, so my guess is that it won't affect me that hard this nerf.

    Drunk engi is back? I'll have to test it how it goes, no moa access and the hip shot nerf (drunk engi's main damaging skill) could possibly hold it back from being an actual good buff.

  • MLinni.6109MLinni.6109 Member ✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    Do we really need -3000 HP on scrapper via the -300 VIT forced on us in Impact Savant? Yes, you want to force scrappers into an active damage role, but that would require offensive stats to cause damage which then translates into barriers which support builds don't have. So we'll have to suck it up, eh?
    The loss of F5 is also very painful and deprives us of interesting tactical options in WvW.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Impact Savant ... coverts 15% of outgoing STRIKE damage to barrier ... so I'm assuming it's much less effective for Condi builds? What qualifies as STRIKE damage?

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2019

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    • Hip shot nerf is beyond comprehension. It was the only skill on rifle that tracked targets, and almost all other classes get skills that track. Now, people will be able to strafe left and right and avoid rifle even more.

    This bug fix is fine. What "almost all other classes" have auto attack fast moving projectiles that track? Also it pierces and is the highest damage Rifle auto attack out of the 3 Rifle users. Your outrage at this is beyond comprehension.

    1. It wasn't a bug.
    2. It was an autoattack. None of our 2-5 skills had tracking.
    3. It has significantly less range and doesn't travel as fast as longbow arrows. The damage isn't out of this world -- it's plinking damage.

    @MLinni.6109 said:
    Do we really need -3000 HP on scrapper via the -300 VIT forced on us in Impact Savant? Yes, you want to force scrappers into an active damage role, but that would require offensive stats to cause damage which then translates into barriers which support builds don't have. So we'll have to suck it up, eh?
    The loss of F5 is also very painful and deprives us of interesting tactical options in WvW.

    The thing that bugs me is that scrapper hammer puts you in a relatively fragile position. It doesn't deal well with ranged AT ALL, and such a nerf leaves scrappers even more vulnerable to deadeyes, rangers, and scourges. These were enemies that scrapper already had a hard time dealing with. If you need to do damage to get barrier, then you need to be in range. Hammer has not proven itself to be very good at range.

    @Ivantreil.3092 said:
    I agree with the weird nerfs to rifle, the no LoS effect was one of the very few skills we had to play against enemies hiding behind objects or walls without looking like a fool chasing the enemy hopelessly.

    Welp, at least it still ignores projectile hate.

    Net shot nerf is meh, i used it mainly for Open moa combos, so my guess is that it won't affect me that hard this nerf.

    Drunk engi is back? I'll have to test it how it goes, no moa access and the hip shot nerf (drunk engi's main damaging skill) could possibly hold it back from being an actual good buff.

    I think the barrier on hit, plus +200 power with quickness, plus all the added stability potentially make drunk scrapper very dangerous again.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    • Hip shot nerf is beyond comprehension. It was the only skill on rifle that tracked targets, and almost all other classes get skills that track. Now, people will be able to strafe left and right and avoid rifle even more.

    This bug fix is fine. What "almost all other classes" have auto attack fast moving projectiles that track? Also it pierces and is the highest damage Rifle auto attack out of the 3 Rifle users. Your outrage at this is beyond comprehension.

    1. It wasn't a bug.
    2. It was an autoattack. None of our 2-5 skills had tracking.
    3. It has significantly less range and doesn't travel as fast as longbow arrows. The damage isn't out of this world -- it's plinking damage.

    Yes, it was an autoattack, which is why I specifically mentioned auto attack in my reply. Are you aware that almost zero (if not actually zero) other professions have 1-5 projectile skills that track?

    It certainly says it was a bug in the patch notes, and I'm far more inclined to believe the game developers over a typical player in that regard. You can have the bug back as soon as they give the same bug to Warriors and Deadeyes, okay?

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    • Hip shot nerf is beyond comprehension. It was the only skill on rifle that tracked targets, and almost all other classes get skills that track. Now, people will be able to strafe left and right and avoid rifle even more.

    This bug fix is fine. What "almost all other classes" have auto attack fast moving projectiles that track? Also it pierces and is the highest damage Rifle auto attack out of the 3 Rifle users. Your outrage at this is beyond comprehension.

    1. It wasn't a bug.
    2. It was an autoattack. None of our 2-5 skills had tracking.
    3. It has significantly less range and doesn't travel as fast as longbow arrows. The damage isn't out of this world -- it's plinking damage.

    Yes, it was an autoattack, which is why I specifically mentioned auto attack in my reply. Are you aware that almost zero (if not actually zero) other professions have 1-5 projectile skills that track?

    It certainly says it was a bug in the patch notes, and I'm far more inclined to believe the game developers over a typical player in that regard. You can have the bug back as soon as they give the same bug to Warriors and Deadeyes, okay?

    1. Actually, they do. The difference is in how they track. I was bored so I messed around with some golems in the PvP lobby. Longbow arrows fly farther and faster than rifle projectiles do, and they can be way off-target and still count as a hit. Rifle projectiles don't get that luxury, but it seemed like engineer rifle had less forgiveness compared to warrior rifle. I didn't bother with deadeye rifle, so I leave that decision to you.
    2. Yes, but they also called the net shot firing backwards a bug. Not long ago they said it was supposed to fire backwards. I'm not sure I trust their track record on "bugs"
    3. So your method of balance is "If I can't have it, nobody can?" Strange policy, but you do you.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 as a scrapper main I whole heartedly agree with @""Cuilan.7091" points about the scrapper changes. The excerpt does little to explain the end result of the changes posted in the patch notes. I’m curious how it feels with these changes, and would love to hear any possible insight to the changes. For example:
    Does the balance team feel scrapper was doing too much damage?

    Does the balance team feel scrapper will improved post patch? Or was this does as a way to manage scrappers tank potential?

    Does the balance team think the function gyro changes improve scrapper in any way?

    Again, would love some insight if possible.

    The loss of damage multipliers means object in motion and applied force are huge for damage modifiers, but does it at all make up for what was lost? Were the changes to damage mods an attempt to bring scrapper in line with the changes to its tanking capabilities?

    The way scrapper worked before was pretty reasonable imo, a bunker scrapper did virtually zero damage but could hold a node, a power scrapper was super vulnerable to high burst, and had utilites like MOA to navigate high burst classes and team fights.

    Cheers
    Leckman

  • Ivantreil.3092Ivantreil.3092 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cuilan.7091 said:

    I think the barrier on hit, plus +200 power with quickness, plus all the added stability potentially make drunk scrapper very dangerous again.

    The +200 Power is a joke considering what was lost. The 10% loss from Perfectly Weighted, the conversion from Mass momentum and the 5% damage lost from Impact Savant (And if you read Kinetic Stabilizers also losing 10%) is equal to about 600~ or so Power if you have about 2k Power on average. Now you can argue that scrapper shouldn't be a damage focus spec but considering we now have a trait that focuses us on dealing damage to sustain ourselves, it seems redundant to reduce the over all damage.

    The -3k hp from the new Impact Savant also discourages from going too hard into offensive picks such as AED (As dealing damage grants barrier, therefore it stops you from popping it), offensive stat lines such as Demolishers or Crusaders also became a lesser option (And more worse without the 10% Toughness to Power) as Vitality now becomes a scarce stat that's needed against Condition Damage. This reduced amount of HP also makes it worse against any Power Spike specs such as Mantra Mes or any warrior running strength.

    The new F5 alone is just a joke compared to Moa, Supply drop and Detection Pulse (Orbital Strike is okay). From being a skill slot that gives Team-fight starting / Turnaround options to an absolute team-fight finisher is horrible design. When in a fight where there are no downs, all you have is a Toss Elixir size lighting field AoE that either dazes or grants might on a 30 second Cooldown. If any unfortunate soul where to be hit by this skill, the cooldown would increase by 50% per target hit due to gyros being generated. These Gyros can also be killed and rendered useless in World vs World and High-Pressure situations.

    Overall these changes are rather half-baked and definitely need more thought and care in some of the numbers and designs. I really wish Anet would talk actually players that use scrapper instead of taking guesses of what the Class should do.

    Although the point he was making was for the drunk Scrapper build, which it doesn't care about hammer related traits, and can handle the mass momentum changes with the already absurd might spam elixirs produce.

    That said, you still made some good points for Scrapper on general, only way to know if Scrapper kept ap prouder will nee until testing it next Tuesday.

  • Derm.4932Derm.4932 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    • Hip shot nerf is beyond comprehension. It was the only skill on rifle that tracked targets, and almost all other classes get skills that track. Now, people will be able to strafe left and right and avoid rifle even more.

    This bug fix is fine. What "almost all other classes" have auto attack fast moving projectiles that track? Also it pierces and is the highest damage Rifle auto attack out of the 3 Rifle users. Your outrage at this is beyond comprehension.

    1. It wasn't a bug.
    2. It was an autoattack. None of our 2-5 skills had tracking.
    3. It has significantly less range and doesn't travel as fast as longbow arrows. The damage isn't out of this world -- it's plinking damage.

    Yes, it was an autoattack, which is why I specifically mentioned auto attack in my reply. Are you aware that almost zero (if not actually zero) other professions have 1-5 projectile skills that track?

    It certainly says it was a bug in the patch notes, and I'm far more inclined to believe the game developers over a typical player in that regard. You can have the bug back as soon as they give the same bug to Warriors and Deadeyes, okay?

    1. Actually, they do. The difference is in how they track. I was bored so I messed around with some golems in the PvP lobby. Longbow arrows fly farther and faster than rifle projectiles do, and they can be way off-target and still count as a hit. Rifle projectiles don't get that luxury, but it seemed like engineer rifle had less forgiveness compared to warrior rifle. I didn't bother with deadeye rifle, so I leave that decision to you.

    Completely untrue when it comes to tracking. Generally speaking rifle and rifle like projectiles have superior tracking to longbow arrows, especially when it comes to side strafing. The one exception may be Ranger LB.

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    " Function Gyro mechanic becomes a ground-targeted skill in the F5 slot " meaning all Elite Toolbelt skills are gone. And what's overload? Is it overcharge? So this patch, amongst other nerfs, also

    1, Replaces our F5 Toolbelt Elite Skills with Function Gyro
    2. Removes Rapid Regeneration Trait
    3. Disables all Toolbelt skills when Overcharge is active

    This patch is a quite a nerf to Healing Scrapper build :/

    Why remove rapid regeneration when Scrapper's regen ticks are relatively weak compared to all other professions that also give regen.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭

    As a main condi holo, this balance patch will be particularly bitter to swallow. I cant for the life of me understand why they'd prevent us from using Toolbelt, when it's essentially our way to bridge cooldowns on a class that cannot switch to another weapon, and has very ineffective kits. Change Grenade kit to a normal projectile skill instead of a ground target skill if you're going to ruin rotations like that... What are holos supposed to use for 20 seconds during overheat once all their weapon skills hit cooldown ?

  • Ivantreil.3092Ivantreil.3092 Member ✭✭✭

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    As a main condi holo, this balance patch will be particularly bitter to swallow. I cant for the life of me understand why they'd prevent us from using Toolbelt, when it's essentially our way to bridge cooldowns on a class that cannot switch to another weapon, and has very ineffective kits. Change Grenade kit to a normal projectile skill instead of a ground target skill if you're going to ruin rotations like that... What are holos supposed to use for 20 seconds during overheat once all their weapon skills hit cooldown ?

    Guess it's time to devolve to the core version? Yikes

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Ivantreil.3092 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    As a main condi holo, this balance patch will be particularly bitter to swallow. I cant for the life of me understand why they'd prevent us from using Toolbelt, when it's essentially our way to bridge cooldowns on a class that cannot switch to another weapon, and has very ineffective kits. Change Grenade kit to a normal projectile skill instead of a ground target skill if you're going to ruin rotations like that... What are holos supposed to use for 20 seconds during overheat once all their weapon skills hit cooldown ?

    Guess it's time to devolve to the core version? Yikes

    Perish the thought. It would be a sad outcome, Holo has a few rather good Burn skills that supplement core condi really well. I'd hate to leave behind a spec I grew to love, but I will if it comes to that, as I'm sure many others will.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Derm.4932 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    • Hip shot nerf is beyond comprehension. It was the only skill on rifle that tracked targets, and almost all other classes get skills that track. Now, people will be able to strafe left and right and avoid rifle even more.

    This bug fix is fine. What "almost all other classes" have auto attack fast moving projectiles that track? Also it pierces and is the highest damage Rifle auto attack out of the 3 Rifle users. Your outrage at this is beyond comprehension.

    1. It wasn't a bug.
    2. It was an autoattack. None of our 2-5 skills had tracking.
    3. It has significantly less range and doesn't travel as fast as longbow arrows. The damage isn't out of this world -- it's plinking damage.

    Yes, it was an autoattack, which is why I specifically mentioned auto attack in my reply. Are you aware that almost zero (if not actually zero) other professions have 1-5 projectile skills that track?

    It certainly says it was a bug in the patch notes, and I'm far more inclined to believe the game developers over a typical player in that regard. You can have the bug back as soon as they give the same bug to Warriors and Deadeyes, okay?

    1. Actually, they do. The difference is in how they track. I was bored so I messed around with some golems in the PvP lobby. Longbow arrows fly farther and faster than rifle projectiles do, and they can be way off-target and still count as a hit. Rifle projectiles don't get that luxury, but it seemed like engineer rifle had less forgiveness compared to warrior rifle. I didn't bother with deadeye rifle, so I leave that decision to you.

    Completely untrue when it comes to tracking. Generally speaking rifle and rifle like projectiles have superior tracking to longbow arrows, especially when it comes to side strafing. The one exception may be Ranger LB.

    Interesting. I'm curious how ranger LB compares to engi rifle then.

    @Mil.3562 said:
    " Function Gyro mechanic becomes a ground-targeted skill in the F5 slot " meaning all Elite Toolbelt skills are gone. And what's overload? Is it overcharge? So this patch, amongst other nerfs, also

    1, Replaces our F5 Toolbelt Elite Skills with Function Gyro
    2. Removes Rapid Regeneration Trait
    3. Disables all Toolbelt skills when Overcharge is active

    This patch is a quite a nerf to Healing Scrapper build :/

    Why remove rapid regeneration when Scrapper's regen ticks are relatively weak compared to all other professions that also give regen.

    I think they meant overheat.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • redwing.9580redwing.9580 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    you know I just realized while readin through these replies, if they really wanted to go with the whole barrier tank thing, they should have kept rapid regen (maybe change its name to match the new effect) but switch it to barrier instead of healing

  • bluberblasen.9684bluberblasen.9684 Member ✭✭✭

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    As a main condi holo, this balance patch will be particularly bitter to swallow. I cant for the life of me understand why they'd prevent us from using Toolbelt, when it's essentially our way to bridge cooldowns on a class that cannot switch to another weapon, and has very ineffective kits. Change Grenade kit to a normal projectile skill instead of a ground target skill if you're going to ruin rotations like that... What are holos supposed to use for 20 seconds during overheat once all their weapon skills hit cooldown ?

    it was a PVP / mostly WVW nerf.
    was not needed in PVE
    in WvW Holo are the best class - so maybe make this WvW only

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Ivantreil.3092 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    As a main condi holo, this balance patch will be particularly bitter to swallow. I cant for the life of me understand why they'd prevent us from using Toolbelt, when it's essentially our way to bridge cooldowns on a class that cannot switch to another weapon, and has very ineffective kits. Change Grenade kit to a normal projectile skill instead of a ground target skill if you're going to ruin rotations like that... What are holos supposed to use for 20 seconds during overheat once all their weapon skills hit cooldown ?

    Guess it's time to devolve to the core version? Yikes

    Perish the thought. It would be a sad outcome, Holo has a few rather good Burn skills that supplement core condi really well. I'd hate to leave behind a spec I grew to love, but I will if it comes to that, as I'm sure many others will.

    Look at the bright side, at least you're not a condi scrapper...

    Ugh I've been trying to let this sink in and just realize more and more its absolute gutted the condi scrapper roamer. The only redeeming thing would be if impact savant is on condi dmg as well... But I think we all know its not. When they say "strike" they mean power damage.

    Which means the condi scrapper is deleted.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Elmo Benchwarmer.3025Elmo Benchwarmer.3025 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Great patch. I like it. Please buff some of the weapon kits next! Especially the condition damage ones. * hint *

    Maybe in a year or five I can finally play my preferred (medium) ranged character again and I won't be forced anymore to run those pathetic wannabe Warrior specialisations.

  • Control.8154Control.8154 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    Overload: Overloading now disables all toolbelt skills for its duration.

    This poorly written change right here has killed power holosmith. Out of curiosity, I decided to see how long it took once blowing up before you could activate forge again. It is 16 seconds. That's how long it takes. No grenade barrage. No Toss Elixir S. No Surprise Shot. No Blade Burst. No Prismatic Singularity. All of the extra damage and defenses of the toolbelt skills gone for 16 seconds.

    Not only that, but during Samarog CC phase and Matthias sacrifice... we cannot help CC at all if we've overheated LOL

    If were taking too much damage, we can't use our F1 at all.

    We can't use Superspeed,Toss Elixir U, Toss Elixir S, Toss Elixir R to run/hide/res from mobs once we've overheated.

    We can't use our Prismatic Singularity pull if we've overheated and lots of adds/mobs are attacking us LOL

    We can't use anything. It killed the spec as a whole.

  • Why is ArenaNet doing this? It's like they don't even talk to the players about the classes we're playing.

    I was one of the few stubbornly clinging to Scrapper in pve. They've just gutted it even further.

    The disguised nerf to function gyro. I loved being able to res people in fractals etc every 10s. It gave me a role. Now it's too long of a cd.

    Also what is this mandatory -300 vitality? I would understand if it was optional in a trait but making it mandatory is too much. This was always one of my favourite elite specs as to me it truly encompassed that engineer feeling. But you've just gone and made a terrible elite spec worse.

    Rapid regen was fine in pve. The ticks are so low it's laughable. This is just a pvp nerf leaking out into the pve part of the game... Just keep them separate.

    The few times I did wvw detection pulse was really good. What is this trend of removing people's skills? The chrono just lost their f5 and now us with our detection pulse that is one of the only few reveals in the game.

    I've invested so much into my engi this past year and it breaks my heart to see what they're doing to it.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭

    I've got the sinking feeling Engineer's gonna get thrown out of the airlock when doing raids and high tier fractals, just due to how big of a DPS shortage they'll experience, ontop of the already impractical skill executions. As someone who wish Engineer was a more played class, this is heartwrenching.

    And you STILL haven't buffed Turrets for Tybalt's sake !

  • @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    Object in Motion

    Maintaining all 3 is impossible. Superspeed isn't a boon, so it only lasts for short bursts. You'll get a single swing of the auto attack before this wears off. Stability is a bit easier, but because it stacks in intensity, you'll only get minor buffs for a very short amount of time. Ironically, holosmith scrapper is also pretty bad at giving itself swiftness. This is here to replace perfectly weighted, which gave a 10% boost overall to all hammer skills. Instead, we get an inconsistent 5% buff that occasionally raises to 10% if the planets align. It's... pretty bad overall, but nonetheless will be taken because the other traits in this line are 100% useless, and 50% useless.

    Kinetic Stabilizers:

    The stun and daze duration is useless, because it is only for a small fraction of a second, and it does no additional damage to break bars. If the duration of a stun increase is less time than it takes to launch an attack, then effectively it made 0 contribution to the fight. I mean, really, what fight has been decided by a quarter of a second of daze? Is there any evidence of this happening anywhere? Likewise, the superspeed and stability are pretty useless, because you're already in range to disable an enemy and they can't counter-cc you because they're disabled.

    Playing at Plat 2- Plat 3 with only Scrapper showed me that the other 4~ other scrapper mains (Excluding those FoTM MetaBattle Prot-Scrappers) all ran Kinetic Stabilizers in PvP/WvW due to the massive Stability stacking it provided. If you're running Throw Mines with Tools (Gadgeteer for double mines) thats already a potential 10 stability, 3 seconds of superspeed (Due to SS not stacking) on a 12 second cooldown. Running AED for the toolbelt and Elixir X was also a boon due to to 0 second ICD the trait had. The bonus 10% damage was also a bonus for having a stability up-time, but I don't see it coming to the next patch due to Anet's philosophy with Scrapper.

    As for this next iteration, seeing OiM is a light in this horrific patch. With the new Minor that grants Superspeed on ANY leap and blast finisher would keep you at max speed during combat whilst providing the extra 5% damage. Getting swiftness can be obtained by running Med-kit for the 5 (An extremely underrated skill), Purity of Purpose with the Condi-cleanse that core-engi provides and through streamlined kits. As stated before, the amount of Stability up-time that possible allows the 15% damage to be consistent enough to provide pressure or kill-power when traited.

  • Sarnax.8357Sarnax.8357 Member ✭✭

    The negative 300 Vitality is a show stopper for me. Its such an arbitrary change and a real turnoff for the spec.

    Its a shame because I love this spec because of the bruiser aspect coupled with the versatility of the kits and tool belt. What I'm not clear on is if the tool belt is going away by just being a scrapper or does it go away with the usage of a skill? If someone could enlighten me on that I would appreciate it.

    Overall just very upsetting balance changes.

  • Dediggefedde.4961Dediggefedde.4961 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    For zerg fights there were two buffs hidden within all those nerfs.
    1. was it a big problem to actually put the function gyro down on allies/enemies with too many players around. A keybind "next downed ally" would have fixed it, but ground targeting also works. Would be great, if the function-gyros would be single-target wells as well. For stomping that would be too OP, though.
    So, compared to the old function gyro, this was a great buff. loosing all F5 skills is not worth it, though. Now invisibility is becoming much stronger. Indirect buff to sneak gyro.
    2. All blast finishers grant AoE-superspeed independent of the field. Since medipack-5, EG-4 and Shield-4 are blasts, this is pretty neat. hammer-3 is now single-target superspeed, though. However, also independent, so for roaming it's also a buff. We usually run shield+overshield, so for us it's not tragic. ^^

    The heal and cleanse output seems to be mostly unaffected. Rapid regeneration was something like 600hps at superspeed, 200hps at speed (on single target), so it's only a small nerv regarding heal output. with field independence, Superspeed output is more reliable and thus uptime probably higher.

    I only fear for the sustain. using applied force and cleric with 3k less HP and without rapid-regen will probably be a Problem.
    The 20% 2s delay might help counter-heal bombs, though.

    So, if the actual traits will not be unexpectedly off, I expect healscrapper's position in zergs being rather encouraged. The required skill will increase, though, because of the decreased defense/sustain.
    I guess a common choice will be "Gyroscopic Acceleration", "Damage Dampener" and "Applied Force". Public builds will probably use full minstrel.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:
    The heal and cleanse output seems to be mostly unaffected. Rapid regeneration was something like 600hps at superspeed, 200hps at speed (on single target), so it's only a small nerv regarding heal output. with field independence, Superspeed output is more reliable and thus uptime probably higher.

    What do you mean small nerf lol? Rapid regen trait is deleted.

    Damage dampener does nothing except delay some damage by 2s and then applies it anyway, its quite literally the most ridiculous trait in the history of GW2.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Dediggefedde.4961Dediggefedde.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    What do you mean small nerf lol? Rapid regen trait is deleted.

    @Dediggefedde.4961 said:
    small nerv regarding heal output

  • Regarding Scrapper:
    I generally like that Scrapper is more streamlined regarding superspeed now. The only thing left to do is to make superspeed stack in duration up to 3 times so that running around with superspeed 24/7 becomes part of the class feeling instead of still having to time everything around it.
    The other changes to Scrapper are very questionable as they almost delete the Scrapper traitline from WvW:
    It's impossible to control superspeed output in Zerg for stacked running and on the healbuild the sustain the scrapper line used to give is entirely gone and even lowered through the loss of vitality. Might just run tools over scrapper now to gain access to the elite turret F5 and stuff.

    The changes to the function gyro are not enough as long as the function gyro is still kitten targetable npc that is killed off easily. The benefits from the traits are not enough to make this really a defining and worthwhile class mechanic. The effects from the traits would need to target 10 players and the recharge would also need to be lower.

    Granted with the built-in defense scrapper gains from Impact Savant in PvE it means that Scrapper will never be buffed to reach competitive damage values to run off Holo's spot as the go-to DPS spec for Raids and Fractals. At the same time, it does not have the tools to make Impact Savant worthwhile in WvW. Scrapper is basically getting reduced to a snowballing PvP-Bruiser spec that is easier to kill the better you are at dodging its damage and vice versa. Not convinced.

    I think Anet succeeded in making scrapper feel like a more distinct spec but they completely failed at giving the spec a place in the metagames of WvW and PvE.

    Regarding Holo:
    As already mentioned, the change to the toolbelts being locked by Overheating is completely stupid. In PvP/WvW you're as good as dead if you overheat anyway so I'm not complaining too much here but in PvE it just reduces build options when running the blasting module instead of being an actual tradeoff. As a result the Sword+Tools raid dps build is dead of course although I think there was also a non-overheating variant with the 150% heat trait.
    Laser's Edge scaling with heat and multiplicatively sounds somewhat interesting and might put Holo DPS back up there depending on what the actual numbers are. Can't really tell if that's a good or bad thing yet.
    Overall the changes make the other two grandmaster traits more competitive in PvE but the way this is achieved just feels crippling.
    In my opinion Holo was in a good spot in PvP after the Stability nerfs for Corona Burst and I can't see how it could have been considered problematic anywhere else. If anything was problematic, then the underperforming alternatives on the engineer side, core and scrapper.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    without strong heals over time, scrapper is useless in pvp again. way to go anet, thanks for caving to all the qq'ers who don't know what they're talking about.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    • Hip shot nerf is beyond comprehension. It was the only skill on rifle that tracked targets, and almost all other classes get skills that track. Now, people will be able to strafe left and right and avoid rifle even more.

    This bug fix is fine. What "almost all other classes" have auto attack fast moving projectiles that track? Also it pierces and is the highest damage Rifle auto attack out of the 3 Rifle users. Your outrage at this is beyond comprehension.

    1. It wasn't a bug.
    2. It was an autoattack. None of our 2-5 skills had tracking.
    3. It has significantly less range and doesn't travel as fast as longbow arrows. The damage isn't out of this world -- it's plinking damage.

    Yes, it was an autoattack, which is why I specifically mentioned auto attack in my reply. Are you aware that almost zero (if not actually zero) other professions have 1-5 projectile skills that track?

    It certainly says it was a bug in the patch notes, and I'm far more inclined to believe the game developers over a typical player in that regard. You can have the bug back as soon as they give the same bug to Warriors and Deadeyes, okay?

    1. Actually, they do. The difference is in how they track. I was bored so I messed around with some golems in the PvP lobby. Longbow arrows fly farther and faster than rifle projectiles do, and they can be way off-target and still count as a hit. Rifle projectiles don't get that luxury, but it seemed like engineer rifle had less forgiveness compared to warrior rifle. I didn't bother with deadeye rifle, so I leave that decision to you.

    Actually no, they don't. Engi rifle only has 1 skill that can compare to the 1 thru 5 skills of Warrior and DE Rifle and that's the auto attack (I believe Overcharged Shot projectile speed is much faster) - which makes the engi the one that has a far more forgiving skill because, before the upcoming patch, it tracks. Ranger longbow arrows fire faster. Warrior and DH do not. Further? Yes, but nobody was disputing that. Contrary to your claim, rifle shots are actually more reliable in terms of hitting strafing targets than Warrior and DH longbow.

    1. Yes, but they also called the net shot firing backwards a bug. Not long ago they said it was supposed to fire backwards. I'm not sure I trust their track record on "bugs"

    Sure, net shot release notes have been contradictory. But it is not comparable to Hip Shot, as no other rifle attacks worked like that, and they have no previous notes regarding this. I am discussing Hip Shot, not Net Shot

    1. So your method of balance is "If I can't have it, nobody can?" Strange policy, but you do you.

    What is your reasoning that one auto attack should have this, while the other two cannot? I guarantee it's not anything better than my request for uniform mechanics.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    • Hip shot nerf is beyond comprehension. It was the only skill on rifle that tracked targets, and almost all other classes get skills that track. Now, people will be able to strafe left and right and avoid rifle even more.

    This bug fix is fine. What "almost all other classes" have auto attack fast moving projectiles that track? Also it pierces and is the highest damage Rifle auto attack out of the 3 Rifle users. Your outrage at this is beyond comprehension.

    1. It wasn't a bug.
    2. It was an autoattack. None of our 2-5 skills had tracking.
    3. It has significantly less range and doesn't travel as fast as longbow arrows. The damage isn't out of this world -- it's plinking damage.

    Yes, it was an autoattack, which is why I specifically mentioned auto attack in my reply. Are you aware that almost zero (if not actually zero) other professions have 1-5 projectile skills that track?

    It certainly says it was a bug in the patch notes, and I'm far more inclined to believe the game developers over a typical player in that regard. You can have the bug back as soon as they give the same bug to Warriors and Deadeyes, okay?

    1. Actually, they do. The difference is in how they track. I was bored so I messed around with some golems in the PvP lobby. Longbow arrows fly farther and faster than rifle projectiles do, and they can be way off-target and still count as a hit. Rifle projectiles don't get that luxury, but it seemed like engineer rifle had less forgiveness compared to warrior rifle. I didn't bother with deadeye rifle, so I leave that decision to you.

    Actually no, they don't. Engi rifle only has 1 skill that can compare to the 1 thru 5 skills of Warrior and DE Rifle and that's the auto attack (I believe Overcharged Shot projectile speed is much faster) - which makes the engi the one that has a far more forgiving skill because, before the upcoming patch, it tracks. Ranger longbow arrows fire faster. Warrior and DH do not. Further? Yes, but nobody was disputing that. Contrary to your claim, rifle shots are actually more reliable in terms of hitting strafing targets than Warrior and DH longbow.

    1. Yes, but they also called the net shot firing backwards a bug. Not long ago they said it was supposed to fire backwards. I'm not sure I trust their track record on "bugs"

    Sure, net shot release notes have been contradictory. But it is not comparable to Hip Shot, as no other rifle attacks worked like that, and they have no previous notes regarding this. I am discussing Hip Shot, not Net Shot

    1. So your method of balance is "If I can't have it, nobody can?" Strange policy, but you do you.

    What is your reasoning that one auto attack should have this, while the other two cannot? I guarantee it's not anything better than my request for uniform mechanics.

    Congratulations, you've won an internet! I'm not sure what you're arguing with me about, or why it's such a big deal to you. So I'm just going to leave this here.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Ivantreil.3092 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    As a main condi holo, this balance patch will be particularly bitter to swallow. I cant for the life of me understand why they'd prevent us from using Toolbelt, when it's essentially our way to bridge cooldowns on a class that cannot switch to another weapon, and has very ineffective kits. Change Grenade kit to a normal projectile skill instead of a ground target skill if you're going to ruin rotations like that... What are holos supposed to use for 20 seconds during overheat once all their weapon skills hit cooldown ?

    Guess it's time to devolve to the core version? Yikes

    Perish the thought. It would be a sad outcome, Holo has a few rather good Burn skills that supplement core condi really well. I'd hate to leave behind a spec I grew to love, but I will if it comes to that, as I'm sure many others will.

    What condi Holo Build are you running that makes you overheat 100% of the time?

    I would think you'd want to avoid overheating at ALL TIMES unless you were trying to go all in for a win....?

    Personally, the changes are interesting. I can't speak to how bad or good they are until I test it. I have learned to manage my heat when using Holo now so the overheat change doesn't bother me (and I use ECSU trait as well). The Scrapper change makes me think there will be only one major way of playing bunker Scrapper if they do not allow condi damage to tick up the Barrier count.

    I'm taking the wait and see approach.

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I hate how these balance patch notes always drop while I'm in the middle of fibro fog. It's hard to have sound judgement when you can't remember where you are for half the time. So far, I really don't like these changes. I'll highlight a few of them.

    Overload: Overloading now disables all toolbelt skills for its duration.

    This poorly written change right here has killed power holosmith. Out of curiosity, I decided to see how long it took once blowing up before you could activate forge again. It is 16 seconds. That's how long it takes. No grenade barrage. No Toss Elixir S. No Surprise Shot. No Blade Burst. No Prismatic Singularity. All of the extra damage and defenses of the toolbelt skills gone for 16 seconds.

    In PvE, I can understand that but in PvP, that change shouldn't be a problem. Regardless of whether this change was there or not, the last thing you want to do is overload because Shockwave is on such a short cooldown that it is beneficial for you NOT to overload.

    Scrapper—Function Gyro: While scrapper specialization is equipped, this skill now occupies the F5 slot. Recharge has been increased to 30 seconds. This skill trait is now ground targeted at a range of 600 and creates a lightning field at the target point with a radius of 180. Within this radius, it spawns up to 6 function gyros targeting up to 3 enemies and/or 3 allies. Enemies are finished while allies are revived. This skill's recharge is increased by 50% for each function gyro spawned beyond the first.

    This is a nerf disguised as a buff. For anyone referencing this in the future, currently Function Gyro is a 900 range skill with a 10 second recharge that rezzes whatever you target. The ability to rez or finish multiple people at once is rarely going to come into play. First, the range is incredibly small, so the chances that multiple people will be downed in one spot is pretty low. Second, this change isn't significantly stronger, because either rezzing one player in that area or downing one enemy will have nearly the same affect as doing both simultaneously. Your friend stands up, finishes the bad guy, and you both walk away. The lightning field is just fluff; there's no use that the downed have for a lightning field.

    The lightning field when combined with leap skills cause daze. At the right time, at the right moment in a PvP match YES, a .25s daze can make a difference. Trust me, you should see some of the clutch moments I have had the pleasure of recording, it is incredible how close some moments are.

    Damage Dampener: This new trait causes 20% of all damage dealt to you to be dealt after a 2-second delay from the initial strike. In PvE only, the damage delay is increased to 33%.

    Anet has invented a trait who's sole function is to be annoying. This provides NO STATISTICAL ADVANTAGE! YOU'RE STILL TAKING THE SAME AMOUNT OF DAMAGE! I'm assuming that this trait exists for people who are bad at barrier, so they can slather some on their bodies and negate 20% of the big hit they just ate. So, instead of using barrier preemptively, you can use barriers reactively at 20% effectiveness.

    This trait is utterly terrible.

    This may actually prove to be the strongest trait especially against burst classes. Especially if backstab D/P thieves come back. Being able to react and heal or even block damage because it takes a 2 second delay to ALL hit you?... come on man. Why are you hating on everything?

    Maintaining all 3 is impossible. Superspeed isn't a boon, so it only lasts for short bursts. You'll get a single swing of the auto attack before this wears off. Stability is a bit easier, but because it stacks in intensity, you'll only get minor buffs for a very short amount of time. Ironically, holosmith scrapper is also pretty bad at giving itself swiftness. This is here to replace perfectly weighted, which gave a 10% boost overall to all hammer skills. Instead, we get an inconsistent 5% buff that occasionally raises to 10% if the planets align. It's... pretty bad overall, but nonetheless will be taken because the other traits in this line are 100% useless, and 50% useless.

    Why do you seem to be intentionally difficult? Sure you can maintain all 3 if you really wanted to. Combine all the leap finishers/blast finishers and you technically have near infinite superspeed then just take 1 trait in tools with a kit and you definitely have infinite swiftness and take one trait in Firearms and you got near infinite stab. GG

  • VPK.1796VPK.1796 Member ✭✭

    RIP scrapper

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Ivantreil.3092 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    As a main condi holo, this balance patch will be particularly bitter to swallow. I cant for the life of me understand why they'd prevent us from using Toolbelt, when it's essentially our way to bridge cooldowns on a class that cannot switch to another weapon, and has very ineffective kits. Change Grenade kit to a normal projectile skill instead of a ground target skill if you're going to ruin rotations like that... What are holos supposed to use for 20 seconds during overheat once all their weapon skills hit cooldown ?

    Guess it's time to devolve to the core version? Yikes

    Perish the thought. It would be a sad outcome, Holo has a few rather good Burn skills that supplement core condi really well. I'd hate to leave behind a spec I grew to love, but I will if it comes to that, as I'm sure many others will.

    What condi Holo Build are you running that makes you overheat 100% of the time?

    I would think you'd want to avoid overheating at ALL TIMES unless you were trying to go all in for a win....?

    Personally, the changes are interesting. I can't speak to how bad or good they are until I test it. I have learned to manage my heat when using Holo now so the overheat change doesn't bother me (and I use ECSU trait as well). The Scrapper change makes me think there will be only one major way of playing bunker Scrapper if they do not allow condi damage to tick up the Barrier count.

    I'm taking the wait and see approach.

    Meta condi builds run solar focusing lens and photonic blasting module.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Ivantreil.3092 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:
    As a main condi holo, this balance patch will be particularly bitter to swallow. I cant for the life of me understand why they'd prevent us from using Toolbelt, when it's essentially our way to bridge cooldowns on a class that cannot switch to another weapon, and has very ineffective kits. Change Grenade kit to a normal projectile skill instead of a ground target skill if you're going to ruin rotations like that... What are holos supposed to use for 20 seconds during overheat once all their weapon skills hit cooldown ?

    Guess it's time to devolve to the core version? Yikes

    Perish the thought. It would be a sad outcome, Holo has a few rather good Burn skills that supplement core condi really well. I'd hate to leave behind a spec I grew to love, but I will if it comes to that, as I'm sure many others will.

    What condi Holo Build are you running that makes you overheat 100% of the time?

    I would think you'd want to avoid overheating at ALL TIMES unless you were trying to go all in for a win....?

    Personally, the changes are interesting. I can't speak to how bad or good they are until I test it. I have learned to manage my heat when using Holo now so the overheat change doesn't bother me (and I use ECSU trait as well). The Scrapper change makes me think there will be only one major way of playing bunker Scrapper if they do not allow condi damage to tick up the Barrier count.

    I'm taking the wait and see approach.

    Meta condi builds run solar focusing lens and photonic blasting module.

    For PvE or PvP? Also I guess you could use your toolbelt skills BEFORE overloading then? In that case you may discover a bug that resets all your toobelt skills after the overload clears hehehehehe.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    Scrapper balancing turns out better than expected. It will be painful to lose some of the old features which made this class so much fun and reliable, but there are a lot of chances to improve and rise even higher. I am still very happy for the fact that we get informed BEFORE the actual patch happens, highly appreciated.

    The new way how F5 is going to work is a first step towards a real trade-off-system. If you want to use an Elite Specialization, you will lose your elite toolbelt slot. On the other hand we finally get control over the Function Gyro. I was using Detection Pulse frequently, it pretty much ruined going into stealth for our enemies. Only the DE with Shadow Meld was able to stealth anyway. Stealth is a powerful game-mechanic. If an enemy goes into stealth, it should empower him and make him a threat to us. We still have enough other options to reveal, compared to other professions. This is another part of the trade-off-system. We want to reveal players, so we have to "sacrifice" a real skill for it. As a conclusion, we may get a few more competitive builds which utilize the gadgets, which is much appreciated.

    The traits look awesome, Rapid Regeneration will be missed though. Damage Dampener will make a lot of people rage in fury. It does look useless on the first view, but it will defuse a lot of extreme burst-skills. It boosts the way barrier works and allows us to neutralize more of the incoming damage. Really looking forward to this one.

    More when the patch is live.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    For PvE or PvP? Also I guess you could use your toolbelt skills BEFORE overloading then? In that case you may discover a bug that resets all your toobelt skills after the overload clears hehehehehe.

    You have no clue how pve engi works do you?

  • Dirame.8521Dirame.8521 Member ✭✭
    edited July 12, 2019

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Dirame.8521 said:

    For PvE or PvP? Also I guess you could use your toolbelt skills BEFORE overloading then? In that case you may discover a bug that resets all your toobelt skills after the overload clears hehehehehe.

    You have no clue how pve engi works do you?

    Nope, don't know how they work at all. That's why I asked a question. The reset toolbelt thing was also a joke. Silliness occurs to me sometimes.

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