Constructive Feedback concerning the upcoming native Templates

It might be a bit late for this topic, but we didn't have exactly all that much time to reflect on and discuss the feature between the reveal and showcase of the details and it's soon upcoming release, but I at least wanted to try.

I want to open with reiterating from previous various discussions that while my criticism in discussing the feature may be or has been harsh, it's simply rooted in how much the current design and proposed monetisation would affect my enjoyment of the game as well as my personal view of Anet and their business practices negatively, coming from someone who has been with this Franchise continuously for over 14 years now.Most of these stated issues are coming from the view point of a hardcore player, as well as collecting the feedback of others negatively impacted by the proposed system.That doesn't mean I don't greatly value all the work the responsible Devs have poured into this project, which certainly seems to have been a pain at many points during development.I personally wanted a native Template system for the game since years, and this does have the potential to be an even great system, if just some few but very fatal flaws could be corrected.

First of all I want to say that some features, like the Build Sharing system via chat links in tandem with the Build Preview function when hovering over them is absolutely fantastic, and much more than what I expected from such a system and it will be a great addition to the game.

Beyond that, I want to tackle feature by feature and give my feedback, as well as try to convey that of others, on both the functionality as well as monetization of them.

Character Build Loadouts:

1. The limitation of just 3+3 Loadouts.Especially for players who enjoy all gamemodes on a single character, but even just simply Raiders, will hit the limit of 6 in an instant and be wishing for more.The absolute minimum for these needs to be 9, but preferably 12, if not or more.Six builds is not even enough to cover just the Raid and Fractal builds of a hardcore player, let alone additionally multiple PvP and/or WvW (such as for zerging and roaming) builds, or even simply some fun open world build(s) on top of that.6 Loadouts are overly restrictive and will severely cripple the usefulness of the Feature for especially hardcore players, or any player engaged in multiple gamemodes.Additionally, the current design of automatically assigning a build, free of charge, to a player when swapping between PvE, PvP and WvW is brilliant design, as it both makes for a fluent transition between the gamemodes, as well as encouraging players to get into different modes rather than to punish them for it.In the future, with this new system design and it's limitations, players, being free to allocate the 3 builds to any game mode, will face the decision to let's say either scrap one of their frequently used very PvE builds to try out PvP, or to simply stay away from it, and therefor by design will make transitioning between gamemodes and multigamemode play less frequent, and players may feel like they are getting punished for engaging in a multitude of content. Extending this system could alleviate that issue somewhat, in combination with point 3, concerning monetization.

2. Them just being Loadouts rather than Templates.I really don't know what the rational behind this decision was, but the Character Loadouts need a save and load functionality, rather than automatically saving any changes made to the character.In so many instances in the game we are encouraged to change out little things, like swapping a Trait or two, taking a situational Utility skill etc., that constantly having to remember to swap everything back to the base/general build kind of defeats some of the purpose to have these "Templates" in the first place, which should act as a constant baseline to reload, so you can be sure your build is in order at a moments notice without having to double check everything, to then make adjustments from there for the specific content at hand if needed.

3. The monetization.Obviously we didn't get any concrete information about this, but what was mentioned on stream for all of these slots was Bank/Inventory Slot level pricing for the various slots.~400 Gems+ for a single Loadout Slot, per character, is simply way to much.From the perspective of a hardcore players that is an obscene amount of money, even more so when considering possible future extension to the system like the before mentioned need for more Slots. Having to buy these for ~5€ per slot per character, if that is indeed the planned pricing, is actually quite outrageous and will defeat the usability of the system for anything but high rollers when considering having to unlock all these slots for just one character of the 9 professions.A simple feature such a swapping between Trait and Utility presets shouldn't, at least in my opinion, run a player in the possibly hundreds of Euros.In general though, price aside, and this goes for all these slots, I would much rather see them as account unlocks, rather than having to buy them on a per character basis.I personally feel like 400 Gems for a pack 3 Build Loadout Slots as Account unlock is much more reasonable, but that is obviously highly subjective.I do think though that anything more than that will not only harm the usefulness of the system, but also be extremely punishing for hardcore players and those engaged in multiple gamemodes, having a greater need for build variety.

Character Gear Loadouts:

1. The value proposition in conjunction with Legendary Gear.This is an issue that comes as a result of the decision to make them store Gear as well, which I really don't know how to fix.The issue with that is that it severely limits the value of Legendary Gear, or the other way around, makes it a particularly painful purchase for those who invested into Legendaries, being asked to pay for the theoretical savings of Inventory space without utilizing it.Many people specifically went for these items to save them Inventory space while allowing them to run a vast array of builds with minor customisations, especially in conjunction with previously available third party template functionality.It's once again very punishing for hardcore players who can easily have up to 100 Builds between all Professions and gamemodes, and each build having up to 26 variables in gear (double that with Infusions) with Weapons, Sigils, Armor, Runes and Trinkets, meaning the amount of optimised builds and stat spreads they will have to remember is staggering, as otherwise they will have to buy a whole Gear slot just to save some minor variations like different stat spreads between Fractals and Raids to cap things like Boon Duration or Crit chance, as well as many build's just changing minor things between them like a different set of Runes, or just the stats of a few pieces of gear.This will either have to be done all by hand (and back, leading to the next familiar point), defeating the purpose of having templates in having to still remember all these setups, or force players to purchase these slots at a premium for gear storage, while not saving a single slot.Even more so this system highly punishes players who used to transfer Legendary Gear between characters, to load different builds on them, as well as players who already heavily invested into (shared-)Inventory slots to store all their gear, which otherwise is redundant.An alternative system to load Gearsetups without it storing items, an increased cap on the amount of slots and sold at a greatly reduced price, would fix all of these issues.

2. Them just being Loadouts rather than templates.The same issue as with Build Templates arises here and they need a save/load functionality, rather than be auto saving.

3. The monetization.I honestly feel like, given the Item storage functionality, 400 Gems for these slots is a lot more reasonable, although I would obviously still much prefer them be account wide Slot unlocks, even at that Price, or just slightly more.The problem with that is obviously still point 1. Meaning the system by design highly discourages players from pursuing ingame goals like Legendary gear, which just isn't catered to with this system at all. With how easily Ascended Gear piles up to a point of being instant salvage for Hardcore players, I don't see any point for anyone to still get things like Legendary armor, aside from the skin. Which considering their price and effort involved is problematic in terms of game design to say the least.

Account wide Templates:

1. The monetization.It's a neat little feature to allow people to share builds with others, and save those other's have shared.That's mostly it though, and frankly that should be a baseline, aka free, functionality of the system, especially since it can be entirely circumvented by keeping a text file with chat codes around.I really don't see why this feature needs to be monetised at all, or who the targeted demographic for it is as payed feature.Especially since it can't serve as account build library either due to it's limitations, leading into

2. The limitation.24 Builds for an entire account is entirely too limited by multiple magnitudes. This needs to be 100+, saved locally if needed.

3. Confusion of purpose.Due to it's limitations it can't serve as an Account Build Library, and due to it's monetization it's a pretty low value purchase for the purpose of sharing around builds and saving those of others for later use, which highly encourages to circumvent the system entirely with chat codes, using just the baseline slots as quick intermediate means to copy them over into a Character Build Loadout.These need to be imo both near unlimited and free to see any proper use in any way.

Final note:

I really appreciate the Devs work to finally give us a Template system natively in game and I think it is a great addition to it.The proposed system though, while having the potential to be good, has some severe issues, especially concerning hardcore players and I hope to see it improved by addressing those, or at least try to give my feedback before launch, as any changes after that seem to be unlikely, once money has exchanged hands.

If the limitations in terms of maximum Slots, the functionality in terms of Save/Load options instead of autosaving, and the monetization concerns at least are all addressed, I could see this system be great for both casual and hardcore player alike.Right now with what we have been shown, it unfortunately just serves the former, who doesn't have much need for the system, while feeling highly punishing to the latter, who is in desperate need for that functionality to keep enjoying the game.

What I would also really like to see is for there to be a drastically discounted Full Account Unlock option to be on the gemstore at launch day(!), to make the system feel a lot less punishing for those who know they will need all the slots they can get on all their characters, as otherwise I see this system drive a lot of people away from the game, just by the sheer cost of it.

I would appreciate if people could add further constructive feedback of their own, which I may have overlooked, failed to consider or failed recollect at this time.

The most constructive feedback we can give is when it has released and we've actually tried it. Anything else is more conjecture, less constructive.

I'm just gonna wait for ....a certain person ... to come in and say all this is fine.

@Dawdler.8521 said:The most constructive feedback we can give is when it has released and we've actually tried it. Anything else is more conjecture, less constructive.

We have seen a pretty complete demonstration on the stream to have a pretty good idea of how gear and trait loadouts will work..

+1 for the thread and the work of the OP.

@Taygus.4571 said:I'm just gonna wait for ....a certain person ... to come in and say all this is fine.

a certain or several. ^^ Nevermind, but you are so right with this.

@Dawdler.8521 said:The most constructive feedback we can give is when it has released and we've actually tried it. Anything else is more conjecture, less constructive.

Exactly!

Very well written.I'll give each section "a, b, c."

a1. This is a wierd one. I get for a hardcore raider 6 is too small for just 1 piece of content, yet for everything else 6 should be fine, especially since this game is so alt friendly (see below), so it's not unreasonable to think players can have 1 warrior with 6 PvP readouts, 1 warrior with 6 WvW and 1 with 6PvE. However, I dont see any harm in making it Infinite: though I do believe this is the section you can get the chat codes for, so maybe that's their reasoning (not saying that is ideal, especially in a QoL feature).

a2 and b2. Completely agree! Isn't this the whole point?

a3. I can't imagine this one being 400 gems, surely this will be cheap, if not it just reinforces making alts as a character slot would be cheaper.

b3. While 400 at first would seem fine, as it is storage, this now goes AGAINST the previous idea of players having alts. Account wide would make more sense.

b1. Agree 100% I dont even have legendary and with this system I never will. This basically even makes "Account bound" less useful as everything will just get hidden away in "the vault". This systems implementation for legendary items is completely amateurish, and a huge fail.

C in total. I dont even understand the point of this. I will only ever use these as temporary fixes for the fact the system doesn't "save" things as noted in your a1 and b1.

As said, very well done and well written. You strictly critiqued the information we have been given about a new and flawed system, and didnt "compare" or cry about what "was lost".

Big thumbs up for this post, made me realize some of the issues that the new templates system could bring that I wasn't aware of until now.I do understand the monetization of the feature as GW2 is a subscription-free game, though first the concerns mentioned alongside with it in this article need to be addressed for the feature to live up to its value and be actually worth the money.

@Asum.4960 said:

+1 Great feedback.

@Taygus.4571 said:I'm just gonna wait for ....a certain person ... to come in and say all this is fine.

Ahah

While I can agree that having more build template options for those that play multiple game modes, I question how many a lot of people actually need. Having a separate build template for minor changes is a bit excessive.

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:While I can agree that having more build template options for those that play multiple game modes, I question how many a lot of people actually need. Having a separate build template for minor changes is a bit excessive.

..... you say that... but a couple months ago there was this big push for a "Gather all" Gizmo for home instance. After that I am no longer surprised by people asking/demanding for seemingly trivial increases in convenience.

I'll follow Thorstienn.1642's example and respond in the same manner, where A = Character Build Loadouts, B = Character Gear Loadouts, C = Account Templates, and numbers equating to paragraphs.

A1: I have still never seen / heard any dev or article say "6 only" when it comes to Build Loadouts. If it truly is only 6 maximum per character, then yes, I agree it needs to be more than that. I won't personally need more than the base 3, but 6 is still too low of a maximum for such a broad spectrum of players and their uses. Though to be honest, I don't really see a need for a maximum at all, even with the "storage space costs money" argument. If you're paying the gems to unlock the tab, you're paying for the extra space--so why limit how much you can buy?

"In the future, with this new system design and it's limitations, players, being free to allocate the 3 builds to any game mode, will face the decision to let's say either scrap one of their frequently used very PvE builds to try out PvP, or to simply stay away from it, and therefor by design will make transitioning between gamemodes and multigamemode play less frequent, and players may feel like they are getting punished for engaging in a multitude of content."This sentence, however, I just don't agree with on a mechanical level. Why would someone scrap an entire PvE template to "try out" a PvP build? Just edit your preloaded PvP tab, try it, then keep it if you like it--just like a player would already have to do now. I don't understand where this notion of "you can't edit your tabs once they're made" came from. Don't end up liking the experimental PvP build? Change it back to what it was--or just copy the link for the build before changing it, then paste it back if the experiment failed. It still works the same as it already did.

A2: This would be a good QOL improvement to the system. It's not like it would be hard to implement a save/load either. At least then reverting back to the "base" build in that tab would be as simple as re-loading it if you needed to make a few quick on-the-spot changes for a specific fight. Honestly, this addition alone would likely save quite a few Hardcore players from feeling the need to have 10+ builds for simple variants.

A3: Again--this feels more specific to the Hardcore players than towards the game in general. Well not even that, more specifically the "min-max" type of Hardcore player, since as I already mentioned, you can still fully customize each tab. The need to be able to swap between all those variants just feels like such a specific feature that I don't really agree with needing to tailor the monetization around fulfilling that, when you can still achieve the same result by spending...what, an extra 30 seconds clicking on some different traits? I would imagine the priority for having different builds being when they're drastically different in composition. If you're just changing 1-3 traits and a utility, or a single line--that's just an extra minute of clicking at most. 400 gems sounds pretty fair to me at the moment--but we won't know the actual price until it's launched. Plus, if we can get the save/load feature as discussed in A2, it would go a long way into also helping with this point as well.

B1: Eh, again, this is falling into that whole min-maxing "need a build for every possible variation" niche. I feel like the save/load feature would help this far more. Another alternative was actually mentioned in a different thread--I'll edit this post soon once I find it to add as a quote.

Edit: Found the quote, taken from this thread - https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89344/equipment-templates-offer-less-for-those-that-have-invested-into-the-game-more-legendary-issues

@"Trinnitty.8256" said:they should just have a hero panel that absorbs (unlocks) legendary gear to be used by all characters on your account. Since after all its account bound and just saves people from playing merry go around trying to find them or other characters just to be used on current character.

From here, you could just click and add them to your builds without them having to be locked in as a storage--since it'd be account wide.

B2: Same as A2 as well--agreed, and would save plenty of people the need to have various builds for small variations.

B3: Agreed, 400 is still a good price for this--though I can see them justifying 500 or 600 for the additional storage it could provide. I would still be okay with 500. 600 would be okay for me, but I know it's a harder pill for the game as a whole--so I'd still argue for less if it was 600.

C1 & C3: I don't really need to have builds shared to me, as that's pretty much what Google / Build Sites / Discord is for, so I don't really care one way or another about this function. However, I can see it being used in a roundabout way of having addition storage for yourself though. Share a build with a link, then have it sent back to you--could probably even just whisper yourself the code. Now you have your own build saved. (In theory anyway, though I don't see why that wouldn't work.)

C2: Again, I don't think there should be any maximum if the person's willing to pay for it. But otherwise, always agreed that there could be more.

And as Thorstienn said:

As said, very well done and well written. You strictly critiqued the information we have been given about a new and flawed system, and didnt "compare" or cry about what "was lost".

@"Operator.2590" said:I'll follow Thorstienn.1642's example and respond in the same manner, where A = Character Build Loadouts, B = Character Gear Loadouts, C = Account Templates, and numbers equating to paragraphs.

A1: I have still never seen / heard any dev or article say "6 only" when it comes to Build Loadouts. If it truly is only 6 maximum per character, then yes, I agree it needs to be more than that. I won't personally need more than the base 3, but 6 is still too low of a maximum for such a broad spectrum of players and their uses.

Did you watch the stream? They said currently code gets messy at more than 6.

@Taygus.4571 said:

@"Operator.2590" said:I'll follow Thorstienn.1642's example and respond in the same manner, where A = Character Build Loadouts, B = Character Gear Loadouts, C = Account Templates, and numbers equating to paragraphs.

A1: I have still never seen / heard any dev or article say "6 only" when it comes to Build Loadouts.

If

it truly is only 6 maximum per character, then yes, I agree it needs to be more than that. I won't personally need more than the base 3, but 6 is still too low of a maximum for such a broad spectrum of players and their uses.

Currently means "could change in the future"--which I already agreed it needs to in that case.

@Operator.2590 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Operator.2590 said:I'll follow Thorstienn.1642's example and respond in the same manner, where A = Character Build Loadouts, B = Character Gear Loadouts, C = Account Templates, and numbers equating to paragraphs.

A1: I have still never seen / heard any dev or article say "6 only" when it comes to Build Loadouts.

If

it truly is only 6 maximum per character, then yes, I agree it needs to be more than that. I won't personally need more than the base 3, but 6 is still too low of a maximum for such a broad spectrum of players and their uses.

could.. might not..point is for many players 6 is too low, right now.And right now and for the time being, there s a max of 6 loadouts

@Taygus.4571 said:could.. might not..point is for many players 6 is too low, right now.And right now and for the time being, there s a max of 6 loadoutsWhich....I....agreed with? So, the problem is?

I think you were so ready to argue/debate with me that you didn't even see I agreed with the point, lmao.

Reasons why GW2 does not need Build Templates

1. This is not Guid Wars 1
2. All main skills are Weapon based not profession based3.Not everyone has Legendary equipment they would have to implement selectable stats on all equipment
3. WvW and PvP already have separate builds

@Biermeister.4678 said:3.Not everyone has Legendary equipment they would have to implement selectable stats on all equipment

I’d watch the stream they did demonstrating how it’d work.

I'm not a min-maxer and probably am just going to be setting up power/condi/rp tabs, so I have less of a concern about this than the true in-depth build swapping players. That said, your points are well thought out and well taken. The main one I'll agree on in advance of actually testing the system is the character-bound purchases being a bad idea. With the exception of bag slots (which is another peeve that other threads have addressed), this game is designed to be alt friendly to the point that each alt is just another tool in your kit as you approach game play, with achieves etc going to your account, not that character.

Locking template purchases to characters goes against that, and reflects the very unfortunate flop of ESO Outfit Slots. Those are basically customizable appearances where any gear you've learned to craft can be applied as a skin to cover up the gear you are actually wearing. Brilliant design, gladly hailed by the players. Until. Until the pricing came in. Each character gets one free slot. You can buy many more -- at a very high price, ESO's Crown Store being an astounding money gouger, and there is no gold to crowns conversion other than player to player trading workarounds -- with each purchase going to one character only. At which point most players simply refused to ever buy a slot, me included. Even when they had a 50% off sale on them incredibly soon after initial release, it was far too expensive as it was only a decent price for a permanent account unlock. One of the longest threads on the ESO forums is the one containing the outrage over Outfit Slot pricing.

ANet hasn't announced the pricing model yet for templates. Here's hoping they've paid close attention to all the feedback, and taken heed of the ESO debacle.

I dont see any point they never want to hear from us, let alone acknowledge the player base has a point... their answer as always to requests is if we have to do it, we will do it our way.... they will not listen to you or anyone else on the forum.

@"Asum.4960" said:I would appreciate if people could add further constructive feedback of their own, which I may have overlooked, failed to consider or failed recollect at this time.

In terms of adding additional suggestions to this thread to go with yours, here's three more I could think of off the top of my head:

1. Allowing Gear Templates to be shareable via chat codes as well. I'm sure there are technical reasons why it's a bit more difficult to achieve than with Build Templates, but it just seems kinda uneven that both can't be shared. Plus, it'd just help in general.

2. Tab Filtering - Perhaps an additional way to help increase the maximum amount of tabs available (and to help cut down on how many someone needs to buy) would be filters. Let's say, for example, you have the 3 templates everyone starts with, right? Well, if they were filtered by the mode you're in, those 3 would be set to that mode. If you're in PvE maps, all 3 will be available for PvE. The moment you enter a PvP map, the filter shifts to PvP--meaning all 3 would be for PvP. The same for WvW. Going back to a different map just loads in your templates under that filter without overwriting the others. Then there would be some "Master List" window showing all of them if you wanted to edit them outside of their filtered zones.

3. I already mentioned it in my previous post here, but it was such a good idea that I just want to reiterate it.

   @Trinnitty.8256 said:they should just have a hero panel that absorbs (unlocks) legendary gear to be used by all characters on your account. Since after all its account bound and just saves people from playing merry go around trying to find them or other characters just to be used on current character.This is such a simple fix for such a large issue--I would love to see it. Similar to how a skin is unlocked--it's added to an account-wide Wardrobe. Well, Legendaries / Ascended gear could simply be added to an account-wide section of the Equipment window. Simply click, select, and done--it's equipped. No more inventory juggling.

I have a suggestion that might help with the "Character Gear Loadouts interacting with Legendary Gear" issue: make all the achievements for acquiring legendary gear provide extra Character Gear Loadout slot, it could be balanced so for example 2 or 3 legendary weapons award 1 and similarly for armor pieces.

@"Asum.4960" said:Character Build Loadouts:

2. Them just being Loadouts rather than Templates.I really don't know what the rational behind this decision was, but the Character Loadouts need a save and load functionality, rather than automatically saving any changes made to the character.In so many instances in the game we are encouraged to change out little things, like swapping a Trait or two, taking a situational Utility skill etc., that constantly having to remember to swap everything back to the base/general build kind of defeats some of the purpose to have these "Templates" in the first place, which should act as a constant baseline to reload, so you can be sure your build is in order at a moments notice without having to double check everything, to then make adjustments from there for the specific content at hand if needed.

I pretty much came here to say that I agree 100% with this one point you made. The "Build Templates" as advertised are no templates at all. Templates are static. If I change a skill, I should be able to revert back to the original template quickly and easily. I agree that this is really a multi-build function than a template function. Now, I absolutely love that this is a feature, but it is not the feature everyone wanted from GW1. Build Templates are really the Build Storage. Going from being able to save an infinite number of templates in GW1 to this system is a bit disappointing, but they are working within the confines of a system that was never designed to support this (server vs client side).

I think the current fix should be to simply move the "templates" label from the character tabs to the storage. That at least would be accurate. I think we will get more QoL for this feature as time goes on and I think the incredible negativity for a new feature like this is uncalled for. The teams have constantly made key QoL changes to systems just like this over time and I think for the intital GA release, this is quite amazing considering they had to brute force it into existence and ensure players don't break their own stuff.

As far as the monetization of it, I expected it would happen all along. They have a business model to support and its transactions, not subs. Considering the amount of content they do give to us for free, I think everyone can suck it up and handle this like adults.

We got an answer from @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 : https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/90719/about-guild-wars-2-templates

About Guild Wars 2 TemplatesHi everyone,

Build and equipment templates are coming soon. Following the blog post on September 30 and the livestream on October 1st, we've collected your feedback about this multifaceted new feature. Some players aren't sure how it will impact their play styles or how they'll transition to the new system, including from third party programs they've been using. Others have concerns about our plans for monetization. As release day approaches, we'd like to take the time to clarify a few points so you're ready to start using build and equipment templates right away.

Some of the details have been clarified in forum discussions, but we would like to summarize what Templates have to offer with a simpler picture of what the feature entails.

Build Templates (character-bound) This is the "data" of the build, the information that can be shared from player to player in chat or in text files so others can inspect or use your build.

• These are the actual builds your character has access to on the fly.
• Located on the right side of the panel in the UI
• Contains utility skills, specialization and traits
• Each character will start with three Build Template tabs and can have up to six tabs with additional purchases available in the Black Lion Trading Company Store

Equipment Templates (character-bound)

You can use these to create and store sets of equipment.

• Located on the right side of the panel in the UI
• Stores armor pieces, weapons, trinkets, and upgrades
• Frees up bag space
• A single piece of legendary equipment can be customized with different attributes in separate Equipment Templates
• Each character will start with two Equipment Template tabs and can have up to six tabs with additional purchases available in the Black Lion Trading Company Store

Build Storage (account-bound)This is a catalog where you can conveniently save builds of your choice. You can also use this part of the feature to collect builds shared by other players.

• Located on the left side of the panel in the UI
• Allows sharing of builds across characters
• Can filter based on profession and search by name
• Every account will start with one Build Storage Expansion with a set of 3 spaces, and can purchase up to 8 Build Storage Expansion with a total of 24 Spaces in the the Black Lion Trading Company Store
• For a month after release, you can claim a Build Storage Expansion with 3 spaces in the Gem Store

Build Sharing

• Codes can be shared in chat or outside of the game
• Codes can be exported or imported from Build Template Tab and Build Storage Spaces
• Codes can be previewed from chat and examined, then copied or savedBuild and Equipment Tabs and Build Storage Spaces will be priced in the same range as bank and bag slot expansions.

We've also been following a related conversation about third-party programs. Our policy on third-party programs has not changed. You can read the full policy here.

We don't have any desire to take punitive action against players who are abiding by the Terms of Service and Code of Conduct while using third-party programs, but we can't declare any third-party program "safe" to use because it would require us to commit to oversight. If we said, "We won't take action against your account if you use this specific program," we would need to monitor all development, features, and potential uses of the program going forward. We don't have the resources to do that.

In the past we've made a few exceptions to our "no review" policy regarding third-party programs that enhance the game without providing unfair advantages to those who use them. Those exceptions took place at the sole discretion of the company and don't constitute an endorsement, or a guarantee of the programs' safety, security, or continued development. If you choose to use third-party programs, you're responsible for making sure you're not doing so in a way that violates the game rules."

We're looking forward to releasing templates so you can play with the feature, get familiar with how it works, and tell us what you think.

Nothing really new, just confirm our fears..

@Carcharoth Lucian.1378 said:We got an answer from @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 : https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/90719/about-guild-wars-2-templates

About Guild Wars 2 TemplatesHi everyone,

Build and equipment templates are coming soon. Following the blog post on September 30 and the livestream on October 1st, we've collected your feedback about this multifaceted new feature. Some players aren't sure how it will impact their play styles or how they'll transition to the new system, including from third party programs they've been using. Others have concerns about our plans for monetization. As release day approaches, we'd like to take the time to clarify a few points so you're ready to start using build and equipment templates right away.

Some of the details have been clarified in forum discussions, but we would like to summarize what Templates have to offer with a simpler picture of what the feature entails.

Build Templates (character-bound)

This is the "data" of the build, the information that can be shared from player to player in chat or in text files so others can inspect or use your build.

• These are the actual builds your character has access to on the fly.
• Located on the right side of the panel in the UI
• Contains utility skills, specialization and traits
• Each character will start with three Build Template tabs and can have up to six tabs with additional purchases available in the Black Lion Trading Company Store

Equipment Templates (character-bound)

You can use these to create and store sets of equipment.

• Located on the right side of the panel in the UI
• Stores armor pieces, weapons, trinkets, and upgrades
• Frees up bag space
• A single piece of legendary equipment can be customized with different attributes in separate Equipment Templates
• Each character will start with two Equipment Template tabs and can have up to six tabs with additional purchases available in the Black Lion Trading Company Store

Build Storage (account-bound)

This is a catalog where you can conveniently save builds of your choice. You can also use this part of the feature to collect builds shared by other players.

• Located on the left side of the panel in the UI
• Allows sharing of builds across characters
• Can filter based on profession and search by name
• Every account will start with one Build Storage Expansion with a set of 3 spaces, and can purchase up to 8 Build Storage Expansion with a total of 24 Spaces in the the Black Lion Trading Company Store
• For a month after release, you can claim a Build Storage Expansion with 3 spaces in the Gem Store

Build Sharing

• Codes can be shared in chat or outside of the game
• Codes can be exported or imported from Build Template Tab and Build Storage Spaces
• Codes can be previewed from chat and examined, then copied or savedBuild and Equipment Tabs and Build Storage Spaces will be priced in the same range as bank and bag slot expansions.

We've also been following a related conversation about third-party programs. Our policy on third-party programs has not changed. You can read the full policy here.

We don't have any desire to take punitive action against players who are abiding by the Terms of Service and Code of Conduct while using third-party programs, but we can't declare any third-party program "safe" to use because it would require us to commit to oversight. If we said, "We won't take action against your account if you use this specific program," we would need to monitor all development, features, and potential uses of the program going forward. We don't have the resources to do that.

In the past we've made a few exceptions to our "no review" policy regarding third-party programs that enhance the game without providing unfair advantages to those who use them. Those exceptions took place at the sole discretion of the company and don't constitute an endorsement, or a guarantee of the programs' safety, security, or continued development. If you choose to use third-party programs, you're responsible for making sure you're not doing so in a way that violates the game rules."

We're looking forward to releasing templates so you can play with the feature, get familiar with how it works, and tell us what you think.

And hopefully stops people saying "you can't criticize it until you've tried it" :expressionless:

@"Vision.9074" said:I pretty much came here to say that I agree 100% with this one point you made. The "Build Templates" as advertised are no templates at all. Templates are static. If I change a skill, I should be able to revert back to the original template quickly and easily. I agree that this is really a multi-build function than a template function. Now, I absolutely love that this is a feature, but it is not the feature everyone wanted from GW1. Build Templates are really the Build Storage. Going from being able to save an infinite number of templates in GW1 to this system is a bit disappointing, but they are working within the confines of a system that was never designed to support this (server vs client side).

Wait a sec. in GW1 there wasn't an infinite amount of templates you could save. It only seemed that way because the build templates were restricted only to skills/attributes, and not gear. I don't remember exactly, but a separate code was used for armors, so you needed two codes to fully load out. (It was either that, or there was no code at all for armors...i don't remember sorry)

This template system in gw2 seems perfectly fine, and imitates exactly what gw1 did, plus more since it now incorporates all the gear. Just like in gw1, you can make a build, generate a code, and then u can change ur build to whatever you want, because now you have a code that will automatically load out the original build if you ever want to change it later...this whole thing about limits is pointless because it is limitless already, just like in gw1

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:Wait a sec. in GW1 there wasn't an infinite amount of templates you could save. It only seemed that way because the build templates were restricted only to skills/attributes, and not gear. I don't remember exactly, but a separate code was used for armors, so you needed two codes to fully load out.There was no code for armor, only for attributes/skills. Nor there is a code for armor in GW2, by the way.

This template system in gw2 seems perfectly fine, and imitates exactly what gw1 didSure, 24 builds ve infinite amount is definitely very similar