can something be done about renegade already?

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:kind of ludicrous that several classes have gotten reworks even while they were usable. I mean how hard can it be to make renegade viable?

Off the bat, renegade was the first one that needed a rework so badly, and it still hasn't received any. The only time it had something going for it was the kalla elite soulcleave's summit that got nerfed during beta, but yeah it was pretty op, but seeing as how things are now it would probably be just slightly above avg. Mechanically I think sbow and some of the way the kalla legends work should get looked at.

[ArchonWing.9480]

You would just take the trait that gives 10 people alarcity. Keep pressing f2/f4 to give constant might/alacrity.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAIZlxQHMPyh1RNMO6hRSfMCKgJ/l37G-zRZYBRFCUMcBwB5VGZWA1mAqNL6vaB-e

It would look like that. Of course it's a damage loss compared to Herald though. Think the greater issue is the loss of superspeed. I guess it's worth trying though I'm not switching my runes.

[alain.1659]

Renegade is not good for roaming. You can do it against certain players/builds but most can kill you easily. I suck at rev altogether so take my words with a pinch of salt. I expected more from rev when it first came out. Now (for me) it is a heavy armored ninja assassin at best.

[Clownmug.8357]

Before anything can be done the devs need to invest some serious time getting a feel for the spec. Over the past two years of patches they've only been adjusting numbers which seems to indicate they haven't really committed the time for whatever reason.

If any dev sees this post and actually wants to learn about Renegade's problems, but lacks the time, here's some of what I've observed having played the spec extensively since PoF released.

Shortbow #2 (Bloodbane Path): Can't hit moving targets consistently.Shortbow #3 (Sevenshot): Difficult to aim at moving targets and only effective at max range.Shortbow #4 (Spiritcrush): Can't aim AoE behind character like other professions' bows.

Legendary Renegade Stance: Unpathed terrain makes the entire legend unusable.

Breakrazor's Bastion: Limited radius heal spread over 10 seconds. (Not good for fast-paced pvp gameplay)Razorclaw's Rage: Effect is too weak for the energy cost and limited radius.Icerazer's Ire: Only attacks one target at a time and sometimes attacks inanimate objects.Soulcleave's Summit: Slow cast time and limited radius makes it unwieldy for open field combat.

Overall, I think the problem with the spec is that it doesn't provide much defense and only has a bunch of offensive tools that are clunky and unusable in most situations. The Citadal Orders and traits are good for the most part since they just work.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Arkantos.7460 said:as long as pve boys tell the opposite .....

...and girls. ;) I, too, use this e-spec on my Revenant.

sure its completely trash in tpvp

That's a completely different story. The OP did not say much about anything, e.g. which game mode they were referring to.

Well they did post in WvW so I think it's safe to say they are talking about in WvW, which is indeed correct. It does have a decent support spec but it's still trash compared to herald. It's an inferior spec to herald by a nautical mile. I myself tried to make it work every which way but to no avail.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:Well they did post in WvW so I think it's safe to say they are talking about in WvW, which is indeed correct. It does have a decent support spec but it's still trash compared to herald. It's an inferior spec to herald by a nautical mile. I myself tried to make it work every which way but to no avail.

it was moved from general discussion. I also didn't specify which modes I was talking about at first.

[Swagger.1459]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:or has everyone forgotten about this entire specialization. is it forever doomed to be unusable?

editfor wvw/ pvp

! nobody cares about pve >:]

So what are the problems and the improvements you’d like to have? Or should we all guess what you’re thinking?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:or has everyone forgotten about this entire specialization. is it forever doomed to be unusable?

editfor wvw/ pvp

! nobody cares about pve >:]

So what are the problems and the improvements you’d like to have? Or should we all guess what you’re thinking?

nice one bro. no, my create-a-spec days are over. other then making summons unkillable I don't have any suggestions.

[Swagger.1459]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:or has everyone forgotten about this entire specialization. is it forever doomed to be unusable?

editfor wvw/ pvp

! nobody cares about pve >:]

So what are the problems and the improvements you’d like to have? Or should we all guess what you’re thinking?

nice one bro. no, my create-a-spec days are over. other then making summons unkillable I don't have any suggestions.

Being vague with something doesn’t help the devs reading it. The team won’t take you seriously because there is zero substance to your post, it’s just complaining.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Swagger.1459 said:Being vague with something doesn’t help the devs reading it. The team won’t take you seriously because there is zero substance to your post, it’s just complaining.

nice one bro.

[Swagger.1459]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Swagger.1459" said:Being vague with something doesn’t help the devs reading it. The team won’t take you seriously because there is zero substance to your post, it’s just complaining.

nice one bro.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/317/how-to-give-good-feedback

“ When posting feedback, please keep these considerations in mind:

Suggest Improvements : "What can I suggest that will make this game content better?"

How do you think this particular element or aspect of the game could be improved?What changes to other Guild Wars 2 content resulted in improvements that you liked? How have you seen this particular problem solved in other games?

Give details and examples : Not a generic "I don't like this!" but a specific "I think this could be improved by {suggestions}." And if someone asks a question about the topic, don't just answer it — explain why you answered the way you did.“

[Queen.5837]

Been having fun trying out power renegade while roaming. It's definitely not good, but it's different from herald and it's nice to spice things up a bit.

There's no way renegade was designed for pvp/wvw. The simple fact that renegade gives alacrity is a telltale sign that it's for pve, and it's doing just fine in pve. Not every class has to be good in every game mode. Spellbreaker, for example, sucks in pve, but it's still a great class for pvp/wvw. So I don't see why renegade not being played in pvp/wvw is totally unacceptable.

[Swagger.1459]

@Stand The Wall.6987

I'm not the only one who thought your post was vague... And I linked you a clear statement from the DEV team about feedback and I'm trying to help you, yet you want to be rude...

@KidRoleplay.3615 said:@Stand The Wall.6987I've been using it just fine. You'll have to elaborate.

You- "can something be done about renegade already?"... Like what?

You- "or has everyone forgotten about this entire specialization. is it forever doomed to be unusable?"... Like how is it not usable? What would make it more usable?

Ponder this statement from the team and the look at what you posted... "Give details and examples : Not a generic "I don't like this!" but a specific "I think this could be improved by {suggestions}.".

[kraai.7265]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:or has everyone forgotten about this entire specialization. is it forever doomed to be unusable?

editfor wvw/ pvp

! nobody cares about pve >:]

they didn't forgot, only the won't aknowledge what a fail of design they made, same with last chrono changes, anet will never admit a screw up no matter how big it is, also they won't do the job of reworking it, unless tons of players complain at the same time, they don't care about quality of their product anymore, so stop complaining and go buy some gems so they can give us more stupid living story half an hour chapters every 5 months and some pretty glowy mount skins!!!

[kraai.7265]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:or has everyone forgotten about this entire specialization. is it forever doomed to be unusable?

editfor wvw/ pvp

! nobody cares about pve >:]

So what are the problems and the improvements you’d like to have? Or should we all guess what you’re thinking?

nice one bro. no, my create-a-spec days are over. other then making summons unkillable I don't have any suggestions.

Being vague with something doesn’t help the devs reading it. The team won’t take you seriously because there is zero substance to your post, it’s just complaining.

devs reading it... LMFAO

[ZDragon.3046]

@Arzurag.7506 said:

@KidRoleplay.3615 said:

@Arkantos.7460 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Arkantos.7460 said:as long as pve boys tell the opposite .....

...and girls. ;) I, too, use this e-spec on my Revenant.

sure its completely trash in tpvp

That's a completely different story. The OP did not say much about anything, e.g. which game mode they were referring to.

sorry for the "boy" it means all pve ppland i dont rly understand why the concept of kalla is even released ... i meanwatch all other legends .... they all have DIFFERENT ABILITIES - Kalla is all the same clunky thing ....summon with very high cast time and it needs also very long time untile summon something do ... nearly 2 secs for a skill WHICH IS INTERUPPTABLE by simple cc ...GG

It's fine. You dont have to understand it. Just adjust to how it works or don't. The choice is yours.

it doesn´t fit revenant at all and its clunkiness puts renegade at a disadvantage in pvp/wvw. not just that it performs bad, it doesn´t even work at all to begin with, stationary, kill-able and easy to interrupt makes a skill utterly useless.

The only think clunky about renegade is the fact that i never once saw an ounce of Kalla Scorchrazor's lore involve her with a short bow. Even her statue in the citadel places here with a great-sword in hand with heavy armor at that. So im not really sure how

obviously it doesn´t have to be meta or the best specialization, it just needs to work properly

for example:-make kalla´s summons cc-immune-its effects start when they´re summoned, without delay-summons cannot be killed anymore

this wouldn´t make them over powered in the slightest due them still being stationary and avoidable.

It actually would make them a bit opconsidering one of them is a rapid daze while the others provide strong buff effects + their effective radius is greater than even the biggest scourge shades.I think out of all the spirits only one of them is truely bad and thats the icerazor one but if he is thrown out along side the others he becomes much stronger as those buffs do and will effect it as well.

There are some parts I agree on but not every thing at once.

Making them cc immune would be ok only if their is a trade off such as effective radius reduced by 33 or 66%Having the effects start right away is QoL im fine with thisAllowing them to be hit is a double edged sword depending on what class you are fighting. In the case of fighting another rev having more targets around you that can be hit can be benefiting as it ruins the damage of the sword 3 attack. The spirits can also block projectiles for you.Keep in mind if you take away their ability to be hit it means that you now soak all incoming damage where in a lot of cases damage could be reduced by them tanking hits for you.

Another good QoL would probably be slightly lower energy cost and allowing the spirits with the exception of the elite to remain summoned when you legend swap. I cant recall but i think if you summon one and swap legends some of them end their effects immediately without going the full duration.

To be honest with you looking at pvp only i might consider renegade stronger than scourge at the momentYou have the aoe pressure with multiple tools to defend and sustain yourself with and greater mobility options as well.Depending on your build you can also apply burst condition better than a scourge and are not as defenseless when fighting in melee as scourge is.(i might have to start trying renegade again now that i think about it)

[DemonSeed.3528]

They summons should've been more "spammable" on lower cd or have a bigger health pool since they drop so easy - other than that they probably could be more "shade-like" in the way they work, non-targetable/can't be cc or maybe killed. I think maybe in pvp they would have a more useful role compared to wvw since they can "cover" a node, but they'll go down like 2s after summoning anyway. No cast time would be nice or nothing above 1/2. Right now I'd rather think about the way they are deployed before tinkering with any of the dmg/skill values. Look at herald glint, you could basically juggle and camp on that and survive with the way it's setup - trying to do so on kalla...well hehe..nuff said. Not saying you'd camp it anyway, but when you make a comparison there is an obvious big gap between what you can achieve with either (in wvw anyway). Now let's say if you add a passive value to kalla legends like herald, now we're talking muahah. Summons with a passive flip skill :o. Passive active until you do a summon, so first click is a passive, then 2nd click is a summon. Or maybe like a dual flip skill, for example Icerazor's Ire, on first click is an insta cast Visk that does single damage 900 range lesser version of the normal icerazor's ire [which is activated on a 2nd press].

[bambi.6214]

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:or has everyone forgotten about this entire specialization. is it forever doomed to be unusable?

editfor wvw/ pvp

! nobody cares about pve >:]

Legends say there's also "core engineer" and at some point you didn't have to pick up holo or scrapper trait lines!

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@Teleoceras.1298 said:How so? My condi-monster Renegade is destroying everything pretty quickly.

May need your build lol. I have recently geared up a condi renegade (rarely used rev since I got it so needed a reason to use her) and i feel like the build could be a bit better. I love shortbow and axe/mace. running Mallyx and Jalis (however I usually stick to Mallyx). It has group potential, not so much solo.duo roaming but need it fine tuned. I dont know enough about rev to properly do this imo.

[OutOfOrder.3719]

Was playing PvP with the harrier amulet build from metabattle. Renegade felt good actually, just don’t take shortbow. Go with sword/axe and Staff. i Don’t know if it will work in Ranked play, it had low dps and high sustain like a bunker.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Works well with the right builds and when played well in small-scale.

It's also downright broken as a duo with various necro builds since when summons despawn they count as deaths and give 20% life force lol.

I will admit that shortbow is bad. But that's a separate problem.