Core Power Mesmer Is Nasty Toxic Nonesense

[LuneSkrawl.4601]

@Axl.8924 said:

@LuneSkrawl.4601 said:I think most employees of Guild Wars 2 play Mirage, because it has been an OP class since a long way back. Every class get's nerfed and tweaked except for Mirages. Their clone spawn is absurd, but their sustain is ridiculous as well. It's like they WANT Mirage to be the best class. If it stays this way I'll stop playing the game. Oh and the matchmaking is absolutely horrible as well nowadays.... Another confirmation Mesmer is OP: In almost every PVP ranked game you are with 4 mirages in the game. Great!

I think even mesmers counter eles don't they? even though weavers got some AE effects on their weapons its not like you got the kinda mobility mesmers had combined on core and their elites.

There is really no chance of winning as Weaver against Mirage. My recharge is way too long compared to their clone spawns and my attacks are too concentrated to attack them all together. With my herald it's easier to defeat them, but not easy in any way.

[storm.3120]

@LuneSkrawl.4601 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@LuneSkrawl.4601 said:I think most employees of Guild Wars 2 play Mirage, because it has been an OP class since a long way back. Every class get's nerfed and tweaked except for Mirages. Their clone spawn is absurd, but their sustain is ridiculous as well. It's like they WANT Mirage to be the best class. If it stays this way I'll stop playing the game. Oh and the matchmaking is absolutely horrible as well nowadays.... Another confirmation Mesmer is OP: In almost every PVP ranked game you are with 4 mirages in the game. Great!

I think even mesmers counter eles don't they? even though weavers got some AE effects on their weapons its not like you got the kinda mobility mesmers had combined on core and their elites.

There is really no chance of winning as Weaver against Mirage. My recharge is way too long compared to their clone spawns and my attacks are too concentrated to attack them all together. With my herald it's easier to defeat them, but not easy in any way.

Bad weavers players cant win and got lost in clones. I bet you dwell somewhere in silver :joy:

[Brujeria.7536]

100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

[Brujeria.7536]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

U are definitely right that fear has more counterplay than stealth but that doesn't make a necro fearing u every so many seconds over and over while ur trying to fight it lol especially if uve used or don't have enough clears to counter half as many as the necro's throwing out.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

Tell that to warrior I feared 7 times back to back, shield block? nah unblockable. stab? nah imma corrupt into fear, rampage? BIG mistake friend!You dared to use swiftness? have a 10s cripple.Stealth and invuln has counterplay L2P

[Brujeria.7536]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

U are definitely right that fear has more counterplay than stealth but that doesn't make a necro fearing u every so many seconds over and over while ur trying to fight it lol especially if uve used or don't have enough clears to counter half as many as the necro's throwing out.

So what? Other classes have hard CCs, for the exact same function and these also deal damage by default. Often in much more ways or forms instead of fear. Likewise stun breaks are much harder to come by compared to condi clears, especially because the former also clears fear. Corrupting stability is not reliable at all with the boonspam around.

[Brujeria.7536]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

Tell that to warrior I feared 7 times back to back, shield block? nah unblockable. stab? nah imma corrupt into fear, rampage? BIG mistake friend!You dared to use swiftness? have a 10s cripple.Stealth and invuln has counterplay L2P

Fighting bad warriors is no measurement of balance nor skill.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

Tell that to warrior I feared 7 times back to back, shield block? nah unblockable. stab? nah imma corrupt into fear, rampage? BIG mistake friend!You dared to use swiftness? have a 10s cripple.Stealth and invuln has counterplay L2P

Fighting bad warriors is no measurement of balance nor skill.

Being a bad necro is no measurement of a strong 1shot build

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

U are definitely right that fear has more counterplay than stealth but that doesn't make a necro fearing u every so many seconds over and over while ur trying to fight it lol especially if uve used or don't have enough clears to counter half as many as the necro's throwing out.With that said I'm of the opinion thieves should have been the only class with access to stealth as for a lot its design and therefore its builds require it not only as a means of burst but for sustain. A class like mesmer has blocks,invulnerability,blinks and as its main mechanism clones and phantasm to distract and confuse player leaving it without the need for stealth. The amount of stealth engines gets is silly as well and not even fitting of the class. Ranger instead of stealth should have had the ability in pvp to remove its icon off the map allowing only players to visually track it due to a rangers ability to sneak well.Stealth in my eyes ends up being prevalent in so many matches cuz more classes have access to it then there should be and its feels like stealth has been thrown onto classes that seem like they wernt even balanced around having access to it

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

U are definitely right that fear has more counterplay than stealth but that doesn't make a necro fearing u every so many seconds over and over while ur trying to fight it lol especially if uve used or don't have enough clears to counter half as many as the necro's throwing out.With that said I'm of the opinion thieves should have been the only class with access to stealth as for a lot its design and therefore its builds require it not only as a means of burst but for sustain. A class like mesmer has blocks,invulnerability,blinks and as its main mechanism clones and phantasm to distract and confuse player leaving it without the need for stealth. The amount of stealth engines gets is silly as well and not even fitting of the class. Ranger instead of stealth should have had the ability in pvp to remove its icon off the map allowing only players to visually track it due to a rangers ability to sneak well.Stealth in my eyes ends up being prevalent in so many matches cuz more classes have access to it then there should be and its feels like stealth has been thrown onto classes that seem like they wernt even balanced around having access to it

In your opinion illusionist should not have access to stealth?

[Brujeria.7536]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

U are definitely right that fear has more counterplay than stealth but that doesn't make a necro fearing u every so many seconds over and over while ur trying to fight it lol especially if uve used or don't have enough clears to counter half as many as the necro's throwing out.With that said I'm of the opinion thieves should have been the only class with access to stealth as for a lot its design and therefore its builds require it not only as a means of burst but for sustain. A class like mesmer has blocks,invulnerability,blinks and as its main mechanism clones and phantasm to distract and confuse player leaving it without the need for stealth. The amount of stealth engines gets is silly as well and not even fitting of the class. Ranger instead of stealth should have had the ability in pvp to remove its icon off the map allowing only players to visually track it due to a rangers ability to sneak well.Stealth in my eyes ends up being prevalent in so many matches cuz more classes have access to it then there should be and its feels like stealth has been thrown onto classes that seem like they wernt even balanced around having access to it

Well you are correct, stealth should be thief exclusive. But like any potent defensive mechanism it should have downsides and counterplay. This is especially severe with the mesmer class as a whole as its layering a troublesome amount of active defenses on low cooldown on each other, leading to the first ones being ready while the last ones expire. Thats the cause of powercreep, since POF and the introduction of revenant.

[Axl.8924]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

Tell that to warrior I feared 7 times back to back, shield block? nah unblockable. stab? nah imma corrupt into fear, rampage? BIG mistake friend!You dared to use swiftness? have a 10s cripple.Stealth and invuln has counterplay L2P

Fighting bad warriors is no measurement of balance nor skill.

Being a bad necro is no measurement of a strong 1shot build

do you do ranked? because i doubt your skill.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

Tell that to warrior I feared 7 times back to back, shield block? nah unblockable. stab? nah imma corrupt into fear, rampage? BIG mistake friend!You dared to use swiftness? have a 10s cripple.Stealth and invuln has counterplay L2P

Fighting bad warriors is no measurement of balance nor skill.

Being a bad necro is no measurement of a strong 1shot build

do you do ranked? because i doubt your skill.

Ofc i do im 1550-1600 rank usually, depending what builds i fuck around on.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

Tell that to warrior I feared 7 times back to back, shield block? nah unblockable. stab? nah imma corrupt into fear, rampage? BIG mistake friend!You dared to use swiftness? have a 10s cripple.Stealth and invuln has counterplay L2P

Fighting bad warriors is no measurement of balance nor skill.

Being a bad necro is no measurement of a strong 1shot build

do you do ranked? because i doubt your skill.

You attacked my rank, are you gona share yours?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

U are definitely right that fear has more counterplay than stealth but that doesn't make a necro fearing u every so many seconds over and over while ur trying to fight it lol especially if uve used or don't have enough clears to counter half as many as the necro's throwing out.With that said I'm of the opinion thieves should have been the only class with access to stealth as for a lot its design and therefore its builds require it not only as a means of burst but for sustain. A class like mesmer has blocks,invulnerability,blinks and as its main mechanism clones and phantasm to distract and confuse player leaving it without the need for stealth. The amount of stealth engines gets is silly as well and not even fitting of the class. Ranger instead of stealth should have had the ability in pvp to remove its icon off the map allowing only players to visually track it due to a rangers ability to sneak well.Stealth in my eyes ends up being prevalent in so many matches cuz more classes have access to it then there should be and its feels like stealth has been thrown onto classes that seem like they wernt even balanced around having access to it

In your opinion illusionist should not have access to stealth?

Why does a illusionist need stealth when it has illusions to confuse and distract its opponents along with teleports,blocks and invulns etc I think the class is loaded enough

[mortrialus.3062]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

U are definitely right that fear has more counterplay than stealth but that doesn't make a necro fearing u every so many seconds over and over while ur trying to fight it lol especially if uve used or don't have enough clears to counter half as many as the necro's throwing out.With that said I'm of the opinion thieves should have been the only class with access to stealth as for a lot its design and therefore its builds require it not only as a means of burst but for sustain. A class like mesmer has blocks,invulnerability,blinks and as its main mechanism clones and phantasm to distract and confuse player leaving it without the need for stealth. The amount of stealth engines gets is silly as well and not even fitting of the class. Ranger instead of stealth should have had the ability in pvp to remove its icon off the map allowing only players to visually track it due to a rangers ability to sneak well.Stealth in my eyes ends up being prevalent in so many matches cuz more classes have access to it then there should be and its feels like stealth has been thrown onto classes that seem like they wernt even balanced around having access to it

In your opinion illusionist should not have access to stealth?

Why does a illusionist need stealth when it has illusions to confuse and distract its opponents along with teleports,blocks and invulns etc I think the class is loaded enough

Illusionists have been casting invisibility on themselves and their allies since like 1975. It's like one of the main class fantasies of being an illusionist.

InvisibilityLevel: 2Components: V, S, MRange: TouchAoE: Creature touchedSave: NoneCasting Time : 2Duration: SpecialThis spell causes the creature touched to vanish from sight and be undetectable by normal vision or even infravision. Of course, the invisible creature is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the creature detectable. Even allies cannot see the invisible creature or his gear, unless these allies can normally see invisible things or employ magic to do so. Items dropped or put down by the invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Note, however, that light never becomes invisible, although a source of lightcan become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). The spell remains in effect until it is magically broken or dispelled, until the wizard or recipient cancels it, until the recipient attacks any creature, or until 24 hours have passed. Thus, the invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, etc., but if he attacks, he immediately becomes visible, although the invisibility enables him to attack first. Note that the priest spells bless, chant, and prayer are not attacks for this purpose. All highly Intelligent (Intelligence 13 or more) creatures with 10 or more Hit Dice or levels of experience have a chance to detect invisible objects (they roll saving throws vs. spell; success means they noticed the invisible object). The material components of the invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.

Mass InvisibilityLevel: 7Components: V, S, MRange: 10 yds./levelAoE: 60 x 60 yds.Save: NoneCasting Time : 7Duration: SpecialThis is a more extensive adaptation of the invisibility spell for battlefield use. It can hide creatures in a 60-yard x 60-yard area: up to 400 man-sized creatures, 30 to 40 giants, or six to eight large dragons. The effect is mobile with the unit and is broken when the unit attacks. Individuals leaving the unit become visible. The wizard can end this spell upon command. The material components of the mass invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.

[Brujeria.7536]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

U are definitely right that fear has more counterplay than stealth but that doesn't make a necro fearing u every so many seconds over and over while ur trying to fight it lol especially if uve used or don't have enough clears to counter half as many as the necro's throwing out.With that said I'm of the opinion thieves should have been the only class with access to stealth as for a lot its design and therefore its builds require it not only as a means of burst but for sustain. A class like mesmer has blocks,invulnerability,blinks and as its main mechanism clones and phantasm to distract and confuse player leaving it without the need for stealth. The amount of stealth engines gets is silly as well and not even fitting of the class. Ranger instead of stealth should have had the ability in pvp to remove its icon off the map allowing only players to visually track it due to a rangers ability to sneak well.Stealth in my eyes ends up being prevalent in so many matches cuz more classes have access to it then there should be and its feels like stealth has been thrown onto classes that seem like they wernt even balanced around having access to it

In your opinion illusionist should not have access to stealth?

Why does a illusionist need stealth when it has illusions to confuse and distract its opponents along with teleports,blocks and invulns etc I think the class is loaded enough

Illusionists have been casting invisibility on themselves and their allies since like 1975.

It's like one of the main class fantasies of being an illusionist.

InvisibilityLevel: 2Components: V, S, MRange: TouchAoE: Creature touchedSave: NoneCasting Time : 2Duration: SpecialThis spell causes the creature touched to vanish from sight and be undetectable by normal vision or even infravision. Of course, the invisible creature is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the creature detectable. Even allies cannot see the invisible creature or his gear, unless these allies can normally see invisible things or employ magic to do so. Items dropped or put down by the invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Note, however, that light never becomes invisible, although a source of lightcan become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). The spell remains in effect until it is magically broken or dispelled, until the wizard or recipient cancels it, until the recipient attacks any creature, or until 24 hours have passed. Thus, the invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, etc., but if he attacks, he immediately becomes visible, although the invisibility enables him to attack first. Note that the priest spells bless, chant, and prayer are not attacks for this purpose. All highly Intelligent (Intelligence 13 or more) creatures with 10 or more Hit Dice or levels of experience have a chance to detect invisible objects (they roll saving throws vs. spell; success means they noticed the invisible object). The material components of the invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.

Mass InvisibilityLevel: 7Components: V, S, MRange: 10 yds./levelAoE: 60 x 60 yds.Save: NoneCasting Time : 7Duration: SpecialThis is a more extensive adaptation of the invisibility spell for battlefield use. It can hide creatures in a 60-yard x 60-yard area: up to 400 man-sized creatures, 30 to 40 giants, or six to eight large dragons. The effect is mobile with the unit and is broken when the unit attacks. Individuals leaving the unit become visible. The wizard can end this spell upon command. The material components of the mass invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.

Well thats cherry picking here. Illusionists in DD where not able to frequently jump around like a super sayain. while being stealthed and blocking, while creating clones. I mean i get what you wanna say here, but balance doesnt work like that.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

U are definitely right that fear has more counterplay than stealth but that doesn't make a necro fearing u every so many seconds over and over while ur trying to fight it lol especially if uve used or don't have enough clears to counter half as many as the necro's throwing out.With that said I'm of the opinion thieves should have been the only class with access to stealth as for a lot its design and therefore its builds require it not only as a means of burst but for sustain. A class like mesmer has blocks,invulnerability,blinks and as its main mechanism clones and phantasm to distract and confuse player leaving it without the need for stealth. The amount of stealth engines gets is silly as well and not even fitting of the class. Ranger instead of stealth should have had the ability in pvp to remove its icon off the map allowing only players to visually track it due to a rangers ability to sneak well.Stealth in my eyes ends up being prevalent in so many matches cuz more classes have access to it then there should be and its feels like stealth has been thrown onto classes that seem like they wernt even balanced around having access to it

In your opinion illusionist should not have access to stealth?

Why does a illusionist need stealth when it has illusions to confuse and distract its opponents along with teleports,blocks and invulns etc I think the class is loaded enough

Illusionists have been casting invisibility on themselves and their allies since like 1975.

It's like one of the main class fantasies of being an illusionist.

InvisibilityLevel: 2Components: V, S, MRange: TouchAoE: Creature touchedSave: NoneCasting Time : 2Duration: SpecialThis spell causes the creature touched to vanish from sight and be undetectable by normal vision or even infravision. Of course, the invisible creature is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the creature detectable. Even allies cannot see the invisible creature or his gear, unless these allies can normally see invisible things or employ magic to do so. Items dropped or put down by the invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Note, however, that light never becomes invisible, although a source of lightcan become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). The spell remains in effect until it is magically broken or dispelled, until the wizard or recipient cancels it, until the recipient attacks any creature, or until 24 hours have passed. Thus, the invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, etc., but if he attacks, he immediately becomes visible, although the invisibility enables him to attack first. Note that the priest spells bless, chant, and prayer are not attacks for this purpose. All highly Intelligent (Intelligence 13 or more) creatures with 10 or more Hit Dice or levels of experience have a chance to detect invisible objects (they roll saving throws vs. spell; success means they noticed the invisible object). The material components of the invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.

Mass InvisibilityLevel: 7Components: V, S, MRange: 10 yds./levelAoE: 60 x 60 yds.Save: NoneCasting Time : 7Duration: SpecialThis is a more extensive adaptation of the invisibility spell for battlefield use. It can hide creatures in a 60-yard x 60-yard area: up to 400 man-sized creatures, 30 to 40 giants, or six to eight large dragons. The effect is mobile with the unit and is broken when the unit attacks. Individuals leaving the unit become visible. The wizard can end this spell upon command. The material components of the mass invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.

Well thats cherry picking here. Illusionists in DD where not able to frequently jump around like a super sayain. while being stealthed and blocking, while creating clones. I mean i get what you wanna say here, but balance doesnt work like that.

and warriors in D/D cant dash 11 times like warrior can.WHen I think illusionist, I think :

1 Invisibility2 Creating illusions to fuck around with people3 Making things appear in the wrong place lets say I stand next to you but I make you see me somewhere else.4 and last would be mind manipulation, but thats more of a different kind of school but I feel it fits anyways.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:100% agree. Nerf the burst and remove some layers of defense, remove stealth and tone down distortion and similar on demand invuls. These defensive effects that dont rely on stat investments trivializes gear choice and will always be OP on full glass specs.

TLDRI dont have invulns or stealth so im fine with nerfing them :Dnerf fear by 90%, its too prevelant with boon corrupt you can fear 5+ times back to back !

Fear has like 7x more counterplay compared to stealth or invuln. You are just bad.

U are definitely right that fear has more counterplay than stealth but that doesn't make a necro fearing u every so many seconds over and over while ur trying to fight it lol especially if uve used or don't have enough clears to counter half as many as the necro's throwing out.With that said I'm of the opinion thieves should have been the only class with access to stealth as for a lot its design and therefore its builds require it not only as a means of burst but for sustain. A class like mesmer has blocks,invulnerability,blinks and as its main mechanism clones and phantasm to distract and confuse player leaving it without the need for stealth. The amount of stealth engines gets is silly as well and not even fitting of the class. Ranger instead of stealth should have had the ability in pvp to remove its icon off the map allowing only players to visually track it due to a rangers ability to sneak well.Stealth in my eyes ends up being prevalent in so many matches cuz more classes have access to it then there should be and its feels like stealth has been thrown onto classes that seem like they wernt even balanced around having access to it

In your opinion illusionist should not have access to stealth?

Why does a illusionist need stealth when it has illusions to confuse and distract its opponents along with teleports,blocks and invulns etc I think the class is loaded enough

Illusionists have been casting invisibility on themselves and their allies since like 1975.

It's like one of the main class fantasies of being an illusionist.

InvisibilityLevel: 2Components: V, S, MRange: TouchAoE: Creature touchedSave: NoneCasting Time : 2Duration: SpecialThis spell causes the creature touched to vanish from sight and be undetectable by normal vision or even infravision. Of course, the invisible creature is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the creature detectable. Even allies cannot see the invisible creature or his gear, unless these allies can normally see invisible things or employ magic to do so. Items dropped or put down by the invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Note, however, that light never becomes invisible, although a source of lightcan become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). The spell remains in effect until it is magically broken or dispelled, until the wizard or recipient cancels it, until the recipient attacks any creature, or until 24 hours have passed. Thus, the invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, etc., but if he attacks, he immediately becomes visible, although the invisibility enables him to attack first. Note that the priest spells bless, chant, and prayer are not attacks for this purpose. All highly Intelligent (Intelligence 13 or more) creatures with 10 or more Hit Dice or levels of experience have a chance to detect invisible objects (they roll saving throws vs. spell; success means they noticed the invisible object). The material components of the invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.

Mass InvisibilityLevel: 7Components: V, S, MRange: 10 yds./levelAoE: 60 x 60 yds.Save: NoneCasting Time : 7Duration: SpecialThis is a more extensive adaptation of the invisibility spell for battlefield use. It can hide creatures in a 60-yard x 60-yard area: up to 400 man-sized creatures, 30 to 40 giants, or six to eight large dragons. The effect is mobile with the unit and is broken when the unit attacks. Individuals leaving the unit become visible. The wizard can end this spell upon command. The material components of the mass invisibility spell are an eyelash and a bit of gum arabic, the former encased in the latter.

Well thats cherry picking here. Illusionists in DD where not able to frequently jump around like a super sayain. while being stealthed and blocking, while creating clones. I mean i get what you wanna say here, but balance doesnt work like that.

and warriors in D/D cant dash 11 times like warrior can.WHen I think illusionist, I think :

1 Invisibility2 Creating illusions to kitten around with people3 Making things appear in the wrong place lets say I stand next to you but I make you see me somewhere else.4 and last would be mind manipulation, but thats more of a different kind of school but I feel it fits anyways.

Using Phantasms for damage including killing people in their sleep with their greatest fear. Creating illusionary terrain. Creating illusions that temporarily are real.

Also in most versions of D&D, there usually isn't a straight up "Illusionist" class. You're just a wizard who specializes in the School of Illusion and you gain a number of benefits when it comes to casting illusion magic, but you can still cast teleportations, charm person, fireball, ect. if you've learned those wizard spells.

Anyway this isn't to get into a big argument on D&D rules. This is GW2, not D&D. I'm just pointing out "Why should an illusionist get illusions" is kind of silly when it's been one of the most defining features of illusionists in fantasy since contemporary fantasy has existed. Mass Invisibility is even named after the illusionist ultimate invisibility spell. If anything thieves having true invisibility is weirder than mesmers, but that's a staple in most MMORPGs because simulating normal nonmagical sneaking in an MMORPG game is just not really possible when it comes to playing with other players.

[mortrialus.3062]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I am seriously getting tired of builds that can stealth in at you from 4000 some range and instantly drop your health from 100% to 0% with no tells.

It's a bad design that makes for a bad game that isn't fun to play.

~ Edit

I'm gonna paste this into the OP because I should have written this here to begin with:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Just want to make this post to really elaborate on quite exactly what attributes are stacking up here, to make this build so toxic:

1. Nuclear damage output.
   This is normally fine imo on glass cannon designed specs. But it begins to get out of control here for the following reasons.
2. Too many instant cast pre-charged skills.
   It can front load enough damage to drop any build instantly. Again, this is normally not that big of a deal in most situations, when a build provides tells so that it can be counter played. But this leads to the next reason of what makes this so toxic.
3. Too much stealth uptime paired with their mobility.
   Lately these Mesmers have enough stealth to approach you from blind spots in the map where you are unable to see them visually on the screen, or even their class icon on the mini map. Don't believe me? Watch that video that was posted. This means that you have no ability whatsoever, to counter play the Mesmer's position or to interpret where he is or where he is going. Now your survival vs. the Mesmer burst is entirely dependent upon raw reflex, for when it attacks you, and if you have some kind of an instant invuln or instant mobility stun break with an evade, such as Roll For Initiative. This takes us to the following point to be made, which is the deepest and most toxic part about all of this.
4. There are no tells when a good Mesmer player is wielding this build.
   Even middle tiered players can sort of "no tell" blow you up a fraction of a second with this build, but the good Mesmers out there, seriously instantly kill you by perfectly timing all of the instants & precharges, and landing them all simultaneously for a visual representation on-screen of seeing your health go from 100% to 0% instantly. There is no counter play to this. By the time any visual graphics appear or you hear any noises at all, you're already dead.
5. Subsequently, it is important to compare Core Power Mesmer to other notorious 1HKO builds
   -> Even Deadeyes & Soulbeasts provide warning of inc burst when a DE marks a target or a Soulbeast uses Sic Em. A player can see these things on their UI, as a warning that they are being focused. The Mesmer on the other hand, delivers no such warning. The DE & Soulbeast also must approach a general vicinity before engaging in stealth play. Players can see this happening, and are ready to engage the situation. They know the DE or Soulbeast is close, they are being marked or seeing Sic Em on UI, they know if they are being targeted. The stealth's are also short on DE & Soulbeast to where players can intuitively gauge how long the DE or Soulbeast will be in stealth and if he is about to land a burst or how far he could move during that short time. The Power Mesmer on the other hand, yeah reread the points made in 3. Furthermore, the DEs & Soulbeasts don't actually "1shot" anything. The damage may lay down quickly, you may see your health drop from 100% to 75% to 50% to 25% to 0% from a Rapid Fire that takes 2 and a half seconds to complete, or you may see a 100% to 50% o 0% with a Maul leading into Worldy Impact that takes roughly 2s to complete even with quickness. You may see your health drop from 100% to 25% from a Death's Judgement, and then a DE follows up with some other attack to finish the job, requiring a good 2s to complete. <- All of this as annoying as it is, requires like 2s at the minimum to actually do, which is allowing counter play. But the Mesmer? Nah, all that damage lands in the fraction of a millisecond right out of stealth, especially if a person has a good macro set. Even the approach of the DEs & the Soulbeasts are rather obvious and allow players to position themselves to engage them. But the Mesmer? Nah you can't see it or interpret where it is at all. The final point to be made is that: DEs and Soulbeasts are nailing people with projectiles, which can be LOSed. But the Mesmer? That's mostly all melee functioned & ground targeted damage that HIT THROUGH WALLS.

I don't know what else to say. The implementation of this Core Power Mesmer lately, feels like I was eating at a nice dinner and enjoying my meal, then someone tossed a nasty leaky dirty diaper up on my table, and then I had to get up and leave. For real though. I've put up with a lot of bad metas in this game over the years, but there is something extra

bad feeling

about this no-tell Mesmer stealth across the map and 1HKO you stuff. Like actual instant 1HKO. Not like DEs or Soulbeasts that just deal a lot of damage really fast. No, this is an actual quite literal "instant 1HKO right out of stealth"

~ 2nd edit

And this meme deserves to be here too

How about we just nerf stealth on mesmers just like we did for the thief class?If 4 explosions of illusions are a problem and hitting that hard with mind stab cand o 20k well if we make stealth last 2 secs or something and then stealth falls off as soon as mesmer does anything they won't be so overpowered and maybe we might not need to touch their damage or maybe I dunno

Stealth should never last too long anyways. I still remember when perma stealth thief was wreaking havoc in WVW.

It's not 4 explosions of illusions, actually.

The typical instant kill mesmer burst you're seeing is just a one clone shatter plus the mesmer who counts as a clone themselves. That's it. I've seen just the 1 Clone Mind Wrack portion of the burst hit for 14k. It typically hits for 9-12k.

People keep pointing fingers at everything except what is actually killing people. We can talk about the stealth, and the multicasting. But 1 Clone Shatters were never supposed to be doing this level of damage to being with and are supposed to be something of a wasted opportunity in their own way. If we were talking actual 3 clones+Mesmer shatters the set up required for that actually probably does deserve to be something of an exodia execute style win condition, but that's not what is going on here. Mirror Blade into Mind Wrack can truck people as soon as the Mirror Blade makes its clone.

Like we can and should look at the multicasting with Mantra of Pain, Mind Wrack, and the very high stealth uptime with the Chaos Traitline (Though in my opinion mesmers should typically be very high stealth as part of their design). But I think the change that makes the most sense is to hit the damage on Mind Wrack with only 1x Clone and trimming might off mantra of distraction.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I am seriously getting tired of builds that can stealth in at you from 4000 some range and instantly drop your health from 100% to 0% with no tells.

It's a bad design that makes for a bad game that isn't fun to play.

~ Edit

I'm gonna paste this into the OP because I should have written this here to begin with:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Just want to make this post to really elaborate on quite exactly what attributes are stacking up here, to make this build so toxic:

1. Nuclear damage output.
   This is normally fine imo on glass cannon designed specs. But it begins to get out of control here for the following reasons.
2. Too many instant cast pre-charged skills.
   It can front load enough damage to drop any build instantly. Again, this is normally not that big of a deal in most situations, when a build provides tells so that it can be counter played. But this leads to the next reason of what makes this so toxic.
3. Too much stealth uptime paired with their mobility.
   Lately these Mesmers have enough stealth to approach you from blind spots in the map where you are unable to see them visually on the screen, or even their class icon on the mini map. Don't believe me? Watch that video that was posted. This means that you have no ability whatsoever, to counter play the Mesmer's position or to interpret where he is or where he is going. Now your survival vs. the Mesmer burst is entirely dependent upon raw reflex, for when it attacks you, and if you have some kind of an instant invuln or instant mobility stun break with an evade, such as Roll For Initiative. This takes us to the following point to be made, which is the deepest and most toxic part about all of this.
4. There are no tells when a good Mesmer player is wielding this build.
   Even middle tiered players can sort of "no tell" blow you up a fraction of a second with this build, but the good Mesmers out there, seriously instantly kill you by perfectly timing all of the instants & precharges, and landing them all simultaneously for a visual representation on-screen of seeing your health go from 100% to 0% instantly. There is no counter play to this. By the time any visual graphics appear or you hear any noises at all, you're already dead.
5. Subsequently, it is important to compare Core Power Mesmer to other notorious 1HKO builds
   -> Even Deadeyes & Soulbeasts provide warning of inc burst when a DE marks a target or a Soulbeast uses Sic Em. A player can see these things on their UI, as a warning that they are being focused. The Mesmer on the other hand, delivers no such warning. The DE & Soulbeast also must approach a general vicinity before engaging in stealth play. Players can see this happening, and are ready to engage the situation. They know the DE or Soulbeast is close, they are being marked or seeing Sic Em on UI, they know if they are being targeted. The stealth's are also short on DE & Soulbeast to where players can intuitively gauge how long the DE or Soulbeast will be in stealth and if he is about to land a burst or how far he could move during that short time. The Power Mesmer on the other hand, yeah reread the points made in 3. Furthermore, the DEs & Soulbeasts don't actually "1shot" anything. The damage may lay down quickly, you may see your health drop from 100% to 75% to 50% to 25% to 0% from a Rapid Fire that takes 2 and a half seconds to complete, or you may see a 100% to 50% o 0% with a Maul leading into Worldy Impact that takes roughly 2s to complete even with quickness. You may see your health drop from 100% to 25% from a Death's Judgement, and then a DE follows up with some other attack to finish the job, requiring a good 2s to complete. <- All of this as annoying as it is, requires like 2s at the minimum to actually do, which is allowing counter play. But the Mesmer? Nah, all that damage lands in the fraction of a millisecond right out of stealth, especially if a person has a good macro set. Even the approach of the DEs & the Soulbeasts are rather obvious and allow players to position themselves to engage them. But the Mesmer? Nah you can't see it or interpret where it is at all. The final point to be made is that: DEs and Soulbeasts are nailing people with projectiles, which can be LOSed. But the Mesmer? That's mostly all melee functioned & ground targeted damage that HIT THROUGH WALLS.

I don't know what else to say. The implementation of this Core Power Mesmer lately, feels like I was eating at a nice dinner and enjoying my meal, then someone tossed a nasty leaky dirty diaper up on my table, and then I had to get up and leave. For real though. I've put up with a lot of bad metas in this game over the years, but there is something extra

bad feeling

about this no-tell Mesmer stealth across the map and 1HKO you stuff. Like actual instant 1HKO. Not like DEs or Soulbeasts that just deal a lot of damage really fast. No, this is an actual quite literal "instant 1HKO right out of stealth"

~ 2nd edit

And this meme deserves to be here too

How about we just nerf stealth on mesmers just like we did for the thief class?If 4 explosions of illusions are a problem and hitting that hard with mind stab cand o 20k well if we make stealth last 2 secs or something and then stealth falls off as soon as mesmer does anything they won't be so overpowered and maybe we might not need to touch their damage or maybe I dunno

Stealth should never last too long anyways. I still remember when perma stealth thief was wreaking havoc in WVW.

It's not 4 explosions of illusions, actually.

The typical instant kill mesmer burst you're seeing is just a one clone shatter plus the mesmer who counts as a clone themselves. That's it. I've seen just the 1 Clone Mind Wrack portion of the burst hit for 14k. It typically hits for 9-12k.

People keep pointing fingers at everything except what is actually killing people. We can talk about the stealth, and the multicasting. But 1 Clone Shatters were never supposed to be doing this level of damage to being with and are supposed to be something of a wasted opportunity in their own way. If we were talking actual 3 clones+Mesmer shatters the set up required for that actually probably does deserve to be something of an exodia execute style win condition, but that's not what is going on here. Mirror Blade into Mind Wrack can truck people as soon as the Mirror Blade makes its clone.

Like we can and should look at the multicasting with Mantra of Pain, Mind Wrack, and the very high stealth uptime with the Chaos Traitline (Though in my opinion mesmers should typically be very high stealth as part of their design). But I think the change that makes the most sense is to hit the damage on Mind Wrack with only 1x Clone and trimming might off mantra of distraction.

I dont get it, burst and combos is the only thing keeping mesmer viable, whats the point of nerfing the only thing mesmer really has?it has no sustain damage, healing so bad it dies to retaliation, cleanses nonexistant.garbo mobility thats so bad you are gatekept into specific builds.

OH and PS if you increase top end DPS people will use utility that spawns 2 clones to instagib.IF you dont increase top end dps mesmer will be so garbage that I might as well play thief blindfolded becouse ill have better resoults.

[bravan.3876]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I am seriously getting tired of builds that can stealth in at you from 4000 some range and instantly drop your health from 100% to 0% with no tells.

It's a bad design that makes for a bad game that isn't fun to play.

~ Edit

I'm gonna paste this into the OP because I should have written this here to begin with:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Just want to make this post to really elaborate on quite exactly what attributes are stacking up here, to make this build so toxic:

1. Nuclear damage output.
   This is normally fine imo on glass cannon designed specs. But it begins to get out of control here for the following reasons.
2. Too many instant cast pre-charged skills.
   It can front load enough damage to drop any build instantly. Again, this is normally not that big of a deal in most situations, when a build provides tells so that it can be counter played. But this leads to the next reason of what makes this so toxic.
3. Too much stealth uptime paired with their mobility.
   Lately these Mesmers have enough stealth to approach you from blind spots in the map where you are unable to see them visually on the screen, or even their class icon on the mini map. Don't believe me? Watch that video that was posted. This means that you have no ability whatsoever, to counter play the Mesmer's position or to interpret where he is or where he is going. Now your survival vs. the Mesmer burst is entirely dependent upon raw reflex, for when it attacks you, and if you have some kind of an instant invuln or instant mobility stun break with an evade, such as Roll For Initiative. This takes us to the following point to be made, which is the deepest and most toxic part about all of this.
4. There are no tells when a good Mesmer player is wielding this build.
   Even middle tiered players can sort of "no tell" blow you up a fraction of a second with this build, but the good Mesmers out there, seriously instantly kill you by perfectly timing all of the instants & precharges, and landing them all simultaneously for a visual representation on-screen of seeing your health go from 100% to 0% instantly. There is no counter play to this. By the time any visual graphics appear or you hear any noises at all, you're already dead.
5. Subsequently, it is important to compare Core Power Mesmer to other notorious 1HKO builds
   -> Even Deadeyes & Soulbeasts provide warning of inc burst when a DE marks a target or a Soulbeast uses Sic Em. A player can see these things on their UI, as a warning that they are being focused. The Mesmer on the other hand, delivers no such warning. The DE & Soulbeast also must approach a general vicinity before engaging in stealth play. Players can see this happening, and are ready to engage the situation. They know the DE or Soulbeast is close, they are being marked or seeing Sic Em on UI, they know if they are being targeted. The stealth's are also short on DE & Soulbeast to where players can intuitively gauge how long the DE or Soulbeast will be in stealth and if he is about to land a burst or how far he could move during that short time. The Power Mesmer on the other hand, yeah reread the points made in 3. Furthermore, the DEs & Soulbeasts don't actually "1shot" anything. The damage may lay down quickly, you may see your health drop from 100% to 75% to 50% to 25% to 0% from a Rapid Fire that takes 2 and a half seconds to complete, or you may see a 100% to 50% o 0% with a Maul leading into Worldy Impact that takes roughly 2s to complete even with quickness. You may see your health drop from 100% to 25% from a Death's Judgement, and then a DE follows up with some other attack to finish the job, requiring a good 2s to complete. <- All of this as annoying as it is, requires like 2s at the minimum to actually do, which is allowing counter play. But the Mesmer? Nah, all that damage lands in the fraction of a millisecond right out of stealth, especially if a person has a good macro set. Even the approach of the DEs & the Soulbeasts are rather obvious and allow players to position themselves to engage them. But the Mesmer? Nah you can't see it or interpret where it is at all. The final point to be made is that: DEs and Soulbeasts are nailing people with projectiles, which can be LOSed. But the Mesmer? That's mostly all melee functioned & ground targeted damage that HIT THROUGH WALLS.

I don't know what else to say. The implementation of this Core Power Mesmer lately, feels like I was eating at a nice dinner and enjoying my meal, then someone tossed a nasty leaky dirty diaper up on my table, and then I had to get up and leave. For real though. I've put up with a lot of bad metas in this game over the years, but there is something extra

bad feeling

about this no-tell Mesmer stealth across the map and 1HKO you stuff. Like actual instant 1HKO. Not like DEs or Soulbeasts that just deal a lot of damage really fast. No, this is an actual quite literal "instant 1HKO right out of stealth"

~ 2nd edit

And this meme deserves to be here too

How about we just nerf stealth on mesmers just like we did for the thief class?If 4 explosions of illusions are a problem and hitting that hard with mind stab cand o 20k well if we make stealth last 2 secs or something and then stealth falls off as soon as mesmer does anything they won't be so overpowered and maybe we might not need to touch their damage or maybe I dunno

Stealth should never last too long anyways. I still remember when perma stealth thief was wreaking havoc in WVW.

It's not 4 explosions of illusions, actually.

The typical instant kill mesmer burst you're seeing is just a one clone shatter plus the mesmer who counts as a clone themselves. That's it. I've seen just the 1 Clone Mind Wrack portion of the burst hit for 14k. It typically hits for 9-12k.

People keep pointing fingers at everything except what is actually killing people. We can talk about the stealth, and the multicasting. But 1 Clone Shatters were never supposed to be doing this level of damage to being with and are supposed to be something of a wasted opportunity in their own way. If we were talking actual 3 clones+Mesmer shatters the set up required for that actually probably does deserve to be something of an exodia execute style win condition, but that's not what is going on here. Mirror Blade into Mind Wrack can truck people as soon as the Mirror Blade makes its clone.

Like we can and should look at the multicasting with Mantra of Pain, Mind Wrack, and the very high stealth uptime with the Chaos Traitline (Though in my opinion mesmers should typically be very high stealth as part of their design). But I think the change that makes the most sense is to hit the damage on Mind Wrack with only 1x Clone and trimming might off mantra of distraction.

I hate those no clone 6k+ MW or up to 14k with one clone MW too, don't get me wrong, but they only do that much dmg when the Mesmer stacks every passive dmg multiplier he can find in the game. Just remove passive dmg mulitplier from traits, its a stupid, uncreative and lazy traitdesign doesn't add any skill ceiling anyway. Let only runes and sigils add small passive dmg boni. Or at least put different passive dmg traits in the same place so you have to choose between them, as Viquing suggested as a first step until Anet has some new ideas for a better traitdesign can replace that stuff. Superiority Complex also seems a bit bugged or simply overperforming, some crits i got hit by (not only from MW) run riot here and there. If you nerf the shatters, then every Mesmer build not using stacked dmg traits and run the more skillbased and active traitalternatives will do zero dmg, with other words we would punish the builds running more skilled traits for no reason. That is exactly the best way to kill skillbased Mesmer builds. Compared to the power creep we have shatters base dmg is already not great. Without stacked dmg traits/ rune they do less dmg per clone than most classes autoattacks.

As for the PU core stealthspam oneshot build just rework MoP into a non dmg boonremove mantra and the build maybe is already dead anyway. Used or not, PU still should get reworked into a less unhealthy mechanic too. For example remove the steathduration and higher boonduration in return (only defensive boons, delete the might from all grandmaster traits in Chaos).

No clue why we have so many so long threads about a build that is so obviously not skillbased and unhealthy from its playstyle (no matter how viable it is in conquest) but also so easy to fix...

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

Ouchies :cry:

https://streamable.com/v6ksk