Core Power Mesmer Is Nasty Toxic Nonesense

[Trigr.6481]

This is quality stuff to read while I'm at work. Please, keep going.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I donno dont think it's fair to tilt to mesmer alone. This whole game is utter garbage these days and condi as a whole is at a ridiculous level. All u see is condi guards/dh, dire weavers,mirages etc pretty much anything with condi builds are overperforming. Each point in conquest is like wvw with scourges it's just perma covered in condis, real fun and if it's not some ridiculous condi burst build(yeah condi's are so OP right now it's a burst worth each tick) than it's some complete cheese power build built to hard cc and strip the opponent to 0 hp in 2 sec flat. That's all this game is nowadays. Hate to think what the population will be next yr lol

[mortrialus.3062]

@"ZDragon.3046" said:Has anyone thought that maybe traits dont need to be nerfed here just the f1 shatter itself.Nerf its low end damage so that shattering with 1 clone is not very potent as seen in someones post above with a 1 clone shatter doing a total of 12k damage.But buff it so that its more potent on the max end shatter that way even if this build is used it wont be doing that level of damage and doing 1 shots from stealth especially

its a simple fix that wont kill any traits but helps normalize the shatter itself if its doing that kind of damage with a 1 clone why would you work for more when its damage is suppose to scale up with clones reaching even higher amounts I still dont know why a 1 clone shatter is doing a total of 12k damage by itself, darn everything else.

That said i dont think anet will take this approach to the issue presented.

As for other comments ive seen someone compared this to LoL getting 1 shot by assassin like characters.In that game1 you dont run into unsafe spots and riot split true stealth from camoflauge which gw2 does not have2 you have wards that can be placed and reveal peoples locations even in stealth

Someone also compared this to fps games where you get 1 shot by snipers and or shotguns1 if these things are left unchecked the whole game becomes all players using these things and it gets old very quick2 these things generally are not enticing to the player on the receiving end of them especially if they dont like that playstyle3 not everyone wants to be forced into that playstyle to feel like they can do something

Generally people dont like not getting to play and thats what 1 shot builds do they dont allow people to play especially when they dont or cant see them coming.

I did that on page 2.

If you get the might from mantra of pain and shatter in melee range you can get 12k mind wracks with just one clone.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

it really should be renamed to mind wreck

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"mortrialus.3062" nerf mind wrack, 12k dmg with 1 clone, right?well here is a thing.Target has 19 vuln stacks.Mental anguish is used.Both hits stun.Target doesnt have protection.Superiority Complex procs due to stun.Egoism procs too.Berserker amulet + scholar runes.Immagine playing whatever entitled people call "skilled power mesmer build"1 You dont have anguish. -20% damage.2 Since you dont cheese stealth, target has protection. -33% damage3 Egoism is not used. -5% damage4 Different ammy/rune -5% flat modif - 600 stats lets say 20% damage.5 no more rune of savagery -3% damage

12k x 0,8 x 0,66 x 0,95 x 0,95 x 0,8 x 0,97 = 4470 damageNow here is the thing, If you apply 19 stack of vulnerability, Stun your oponent, And land double crit with mind wrack it will deal 4470 damage in a duel.How do you want to nerf it? Becouse thats the damage holo deals with basic auto in holo forge.If people want this build gone remove MoP from the game and boom, fixed.But for kitten sake give us some good utilities becouse you know something is wrong when class uses kitten like decoy.

Well yeah, holo aa sucks too but at least that's melee...I mean they were always melee where as mes will port in from stealth

[Leonidrex.5649]

@ZDragon.3046 said:Has anyone thought that maybe traits dont need to be nerfed here just the f1 shatter itself.Nerf its low end damage so that shattering with 1 clone is not very potent as seen in someones post above with a 1 clone shatter doing a total of 12k damage.But buff it so that its more potent on the max end shatter that way even if this build is used it wont be doing that level of damage and doing 1 shots from stealth especially

its a simple fix that wont kill any traits but helps normalize the shatter itself if its doing that kind of damage with a 1 clone why would you work for more when its damage is suppose to scale up with clones reaching even higher amounts I still dont know why a 1 clone shatter is doing a total of 12k damage by itself, darn everything else.

That said i dont think anet will take this approach to the issue presented.

As for other comments ive seen someone compared this to LoL getting 1 shot by assassin like characters.In that game1 you dont run into unsafe spots and riot split true stealth from camoflauge which gw2 does not have2 you have wards that can be placed and reveal peoples locations even in stealth

Someone also compared this to fps games where you get 1 shot by snipers and or shotguns1 if these things are left unchecked the whole game becomes all players using these things and it gets old very quick2 these things generally are not enticing to the player on the receiving end of them especially if they dont like that playstyle3 not everyone wants to be forced into that playstyle to feel like they can do something

Generally people dont like not getting to play and thats what 1 shot builds do they dont allow people to play especially when they dont or cant see them coming.

Im hight dia every season in lol.In league everyone gets 1shoted, from tanks to glass cannons, if you fail to dodge skillshot then you are dead. Doesnt even ahve to be skillshot really, can be point and click too.Wards get removed by sweepers, or avoided by gameknowlage ( i play jungle, and its trivial to avoid wards unless its 5man premade )Wards that reveal stealth COST GOLD, compare it to like losing a trait so that sometimes you can reveal someone.Stealth and camuflage isnt that just akali that was overpowered as usual and was invisible inside of towers? stealth classes CANT be revealed, you can only kinda get their location by using sweeper.Important not is that in league you cant just dodge, some classes just cant. And if you get hityou get 1shot bya any mage.

And speaking of F1.I did the same combo on meta power mirage.3 times, Damage was as follows :

• 4464 from F1 ( both crit )
• 4996 from F1 ( both crit )
• 3794 from F1 ( 1 crit )Im sure the F1 damage is the problem. Keep in mind that classes that get boomed by 1shot have access to protections, to weakness.And since mesmer has garbage tier condi clear he cant remove weakness.How can mesmer deal any shatter damage if you nerf THIS. Now think whats the damage against target with protecrion, about 2-3k ?

Did some more testing, 4clone shatter, with Vulnerability stacks AND might dealt 9k damage.thats almost as much as random skill from warrior.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"mortrialus.3062" nerf mind wrack, 12k dmg with 1 clone, right?well here is a thing.Target has 19 vuln stacks.Mental anguish is used.Both hits stun.Target doesnt have protection.Superiority Complex procs due to stun.Egoism procs too.Berserker amulet + scholar runes.Immagine playing whatever entitled people call "skilled power mesmer build"1 You dont have anguish. -20% damage.2 Since you dont cheese stealth, target has protection. -33% damage3 Egoism is not used. -5% damage4 Different ammy/rune -5% flat modif - 600 stats lets say 20% damage.5 no more rune of savagery -3% damage

12k x 0,8 x 0,66 x 0,95 x 0,95 x 0,8 x 0,97 = 4470 damageNow here is the thing, If you apply 19 stack of vulnerability, Stun your oponent, And land double crit with mind wrack it will deal 4470 damage in a duel.How do you want to nerf it? Becouse thats the damage holo deals with basic auto in holo forge.If people want this build gone remove MoP from the game and boom, fixed.But for kitten sake give us some good utilities becouse you know something is wrong when class uses kitten like decoy.

Well yeah, holo aa sucks too but at least that's melee...I mean they were always melee where as mes will port in from stealth

Holo has crazy stealth uptime too :D

[ZDragon.3046]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:Has anyone thought that maybe traits dont need to be nerfed here just the f1 shatter itself.Nerf its low end damage so that shattering with 1 clone is not very potent as seen in someones post above with a 1 clone shatter doing a total of 12k damage.But buff it so that its more potent on the max end shatter that way even if this build is used it wont be doing that level of damage and doing 1 shots from stealth especially

its a simple fix that wont kill any traits but helps normalize the shatter itself if its doing that kind of damage with a 1 clone why would you work for more when its damage is suppose to scale up with clones reaching even higher amounts I still dont know why a 1 clone shatter is doing a total of 12k damage by itself, darn everything else.

That said i dont think anet will take this approach to the issue presented.

As for other comments ive seen someone compared this to LoL getting 1 shot by assassin like characters.In that game1 you dont run into unsafe spots and riot split true stealth from camoflauge which gw2 does not have2 you have wards that can be placed and reveal peoples locations even in stealth

Someone also compared this to fps games where you get 1 shot by snipers and or shotguns1 if these things are left unchecked the whole game becomes all players using these things and it gets old very quick2 these things generally are not enticing to the player on the receiving end of them especially if they dont like that playstyle3 not everyone wants to be forced into that playstyle to feel like they can do something

Generally people dont like not getting to play and thats what 1 shot builds do they dont allow people to play especially when they dont or cant see them coming.

Im hight dia every season in lol.In league everyone gets 1shoted, from tanks to glass cannons, if you fail to dodge skillshot then you are dead. Doesnt even ahve to be skillshot really, can be point and click too.Wards get removed by sweepers, or avoided by gameknowlage ( i play jungle, and its trivial to avoid wards unless its 5man premade )Yes that called having counter-play thats fine but generally they dont get removed immediately they serve their purpose unless you place them foolishly right in a foe's face.Wards that reveal stealth COST GOLD, compare it to like losing a trait so that sometimes you can reveal someone.Yes thats called having a resource cost and you sure enough buy them when a stealth champion gets fed or is a problem so that you can counter them. Tools like this dont exsist in gw2 if they did people would use them against certain professions that use stealth more than others to no doubt shut them down.Stealth and camuflage isnt that just akali that was overpowered as usual and was invisible inside of towers? stealth classes CANT be revealed, you can only kinda get their location by using sweeper.Stealth is when a champion can not be seen under normal means by enemies except turrets and gold wards no matter how close they get to them while camouflage hides a champion from minions and some wards how ever they are revealed if they get too close to an enemy champion even if they dont attack. In other words its a lesser stealth.

Akali's smoke is not the same concept i believe they specifically label it as obscured and is pretty much unique only to her. its more of a half way point between something like being invuln and being in true stealth. She is untargetable but can still be hit by aoe. Thats a bad reference to use for what i pointed out. Accurate champions would be more like Twitch who has true stealth vs Evelynn who uses camouflage.

Important not is that in league you cant just dodge, some classes just cant. And if you get hityou get 1shot bya any mage.

Even in this example you still know not to walk into the mage's range without your team or you die. Most mages dont have stealth access and and almost always be seen when engaging them except for when hiding in brush, for which there are wards. If stealth was not as strong as it is in gw2 people wouldnt have as much of a right to really complain about this kind of build but so long as it remains as 100% total invisibility getting blown up with this kind of damage without tell is not ok. No amount of references will make it ok especially if those references are examples where 100% true stealth does not exist or a lesser stealth exist along side true stealth.

And speaking of F1.I did the same combo on meta power mirage.3 times, Damage was as follows :

• 4464 from F1 ( both crit )
• 4996 from F1 ( both crit )
• 3794 from F1 ( 1 crit )Im sure the F1 damage is the problem. Keep in mind that classes that get boomed by 1shot have access to protections, to weakness.And since mesmer has garbage tier condi clear he cant remove weakness.How can mesmer deal any shatter damage if you nerf THIS. Now think whats the damage against target with protecrion, about 2-3k ?

once again i said nerf its low end aka it wont do as much with 1 clone and to buff its top end when used with 3 clones to make up for the loss of damage on the low end. Doing this would solve the one shot issue and bring it down to a more proper bursting level without digging into traits which undoubtably will ruin mesmer more than just normalizing the shatter itself.

Did some more testing, 4clone shatter, with Vulnerability stacks AND might dealt 9k damage.thats almost as much as random skill from warrior.

The issue is that you cannot apply weakness and would not know to apply protection to a class you cannot see coming. IF the burst could always be seen people would take far less issue with it. Its the concept that mesmer has great mobility and common access to stealth that basically makes this play style very limited to counter espeically on initial interactions without having a passive (balanced stance, endure pain, instant reflexes) to save you.

When you compare these burst to other professions even if their damage might be higher keep in mind its almost never damage you wont see coming except in a few cases and in those cases stealth access is much more limited than what it is for the mesmer.

The only other profession that has potential to one shot like this from stealth is core thief with a 24k back stabs and that shouldn't exists either.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@ZDragon.3046 what you propose ruins other mesmer builds, for exampleIf you buff top end damage and nerf low end damage, it will turn into even more steamroll fiesta, where holo runs at you holding m1 and you cant do anything becouse you cant fight back, cant generate clones cuz they get 1shot cleaved.Then it creates a problem where mes long range bombards you with ambushes and if you get close you get boomed with 14k shatter.Solution to the 1shot build is remove Mental Anguish from the game, it serves only to 1shot and nothing else.

There are already tools to deal with this 1shot build, people just dont use them. Do you think that whiny necro would die so much if he used knights amulet?He faces 4 power builds, and he took amulet with no toughness, laughable.I would take condi mes with 1200 toughtness ammy and toughness rune, with prema protection and laugh at them.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"ZDragon.3046" what you propose ruins other mesmer builds, for exampleIf you buff top end damage and nerf low end damage, it will turn into even more steamroll fiesta, where holo runs at you holding m1 and you cant do anything becouse you cant fight back, cant generate clones cuz they get 1shot cleaved.

So being able to 1 shot the holo is ok where they also cant do anything back? Or at least someone who is not fast enough to panic press shrink panic potion etc

Then it creates a problem where mes long range bombards you with ambushes and if you get close you get boomed with 14k shatter.Sword ambush is at least obvious and dodgable especially at range. Not to mention you give up a core line for the mirage line which likely culls your damage down quite a bit in exchange.Solution to the 1shot build is remove Mental Anguish from the game, it serves only to 1shot and nothing else.

Im am almost sure thats not the only purpose of Mental AnguishThe idea of mental Anguish is not just for burst but also the idea that some one with the right build set up might be encouraged to not attack or use skills say if confusion was applied in a high numbered count or they are just generally running away but not using any skills. It has other purposes where it could be seen as useful. Though if you think thats the right call so be it.

There are already tools to deal with this 1shot build, people just dont use them. Do you think that whiny necro would die so much if he used knights amulet?Because knight amulet does not stop this kind of damage which is the issue with the game right now. You can have healla toughness in your build and still be 1shot by that level of damage. Trust me Ive used knight amulet against this before by the time the weapon swap to sword happens you have like 1k hp especially if you have no shroud to cover your rear. The best tools that stop this kind of things are life saving passives that negate damage like the ones i named above endure pain, instant reflexes etc.

He faces 4 power builds, and he took amulet with no toughness, laughable.So if you know you are fighting 4 guardians with mirage should you be taking barbarian amulet so that retaliation does not erase all of your hp while fighting?Would you do that?No you wouldnt because that amulet does nothing for your build and its not an optimal solution for working around that issue.The idea of arguing that he took the wrong amulet is silly most people have an idea in mind of what build they want to play before the match starts even if i was to run a tanky setup i probably wouldnt have used knights for something like this my first instinctive thought when seeing multiple mesmers on a enemy team especially if its before the staff nerfs would be that condition damage is going to be high and i need more vitality not more toughness. Its possible he could have made the wrong read meaning its possible that there is no way he could have known what the mesmers were going to be running when the match started.

You literally cannot argue that he is wrong for taking the wrong amulet especially when there is a high chance of guessing incorrectly while also trying to accommodate your own build.

Had you said he is wrong for not running spectral armor "ok this is legit"Had you said he is wrong for going in first and solo "ok this is legit"Had you said he is wrong for going in with no Life force "ok this is legit"But to say he should have had on the right ammy so he should die to this "no thats just bs"

I would take condi mes with 1200 toughtness ammy and toughness rune, with prema protection and laugh at them.

And you would be erased just as fast as he was because your hp would be 19k which is easily erasable to glass cannon builds even with 1500 or more bonus toughness.Toughness is good for smaller hits like cleave or stray aoe for direct focust hard burst especially ones that hit in big meaty chunks of damage its some what worthless. AT best you end up still alive with 10% or less hp and then anything you cast is interrupted by the 2nd part of the burst as they weapon swap.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@ZDragon.3046 what you propose ruins other mesmer builds, for exampleIf you buff top end damage and nerf low end damage, it will turn into even more steamroll fiesta, where holo runs at you holding m1 and you cant do anything becouse you cant fight back, cant generate clones cuz they get 1shot cleaved.

So being able to 1 shot the holo is ok where they also cant do anything back? Or at least someone who is not fast enough to panic press shrink panic potion etc

Then it creates a problem where mes long range bombards you with ambushes and if you get close you get boomed with 14k shatter.Sword ambush is at least obvious and dodgable especially at range. Not to mention you give up a core line for the mirage line which likely culls your damage down quite a bit in exchange.Solution to the 1shot build is remove Mental Anguish from the game, it serves only to 1shot and nothing else.

Im am almost sure thats not the only purpose of Mental AnguishThe idea of mental Anguish is not just for burst but also the idea that some one with the right build set up might be encouraged to not attack or use skills say if confusion was applied in a high numbered count or they are just generally running away but not using any skills. It has other purposes where it could be seen as useful. Though if you think thats the right call so be it.

There are already tools to deal with this 1shot build, people just dont use them. Do you think that whiny necro would die so much if he used knights amulet?Because knight amulet does not stop this kind of damage which is the issue with the game right now. You can have healla toughness in your build and still be 1shot by that level of damage. Trust me Ive used knight amulet against this before by the time the weapon swap to sword happens you have like 1k hp especially if you have no shroud to cover your rear. The best tools that stop this kind of things are life saving passives that negate damage like the ones i named above endure pain, instant reflexes etc.

He faces 4 power builds, and he took amulet with no toughness, laughable.So if you know you are fighting 4 guardians with mirage should you be taking barbarian amulet so that retaliation does not erase all of your hp while fighting?Would you do that?No you wouldnt because that amulet does nothing for your build and its not an optimal solution for working around that issue.The idea of arguing that he took the wrong amulet is silly most people have an idea in mind of what build they want to play before the match starts even if i was to run a tanky setup i probably wouldnt have used knights for something like this my first instinctive thought when seeing multiple mesmers on a enemy team especially if its before the staff nerfs would be that condition damage is going to be high and i need more vitality not more toughness. Its possible he could have made the wrong read meaning its possible that there is no way he could have known what the mesmers were going to be running when the match started.

You literally cannot argue that he is wrong for taking the wrong amulet especially when there is a high chance of guessing incorrectly while also trying to accommodate your own build.

Had you said he is wrong for not running spectral armor "ok this is legit"Had you said he is wrong for going in first and solo "ok this is legit"Had you said he is wrong for going in with no Life force "ok this is legit"But to say he should have had on the right ammy so he should die to this "no thats just bs"

I would take condi mes with 1200 toughtness ammy and toughness rune, with prema protection and laugh at them.

And you would be erased just as fast as he was because your hp would be 19k which is easily erasable to glass cannon builds even with 1500 or more bonus toughness.Toughness is good for smaller hits like cleave or stray aoe for direct focust hard burst especially ones that hit in big meaty chunks of damage its some what worthless. AT best you end up still alive with 10% or less hp and then anything you cast is interrupted by the 2nd part of the burst as they weapon swap.

You clearly have no bloody idea how the toughness works, IF he had prot and toughtness the 20-25k combo would hit him for 10k, he would be at half hp, with all cooldowns against berk ammy meser.I fought prot holo, my combo did about half his hp, thats it. he heals to full in 1s and now I must leave, he knew my build and made right choice to switch, but you people do what you do best, complain.

Had FB that facetank 2 people while rezing for 20s, took no damage. Thats fine.Weaver that chained 7 dodges/invulnerables that heal him for 8k, and if you were come close you would eat 10k+ condis, thats OK.Prot holo that I stood at max range and attacked for about a minute and he outhealed my damage with passive regenerations and healing turren without bothering to dodge anything, thats fine too.Soulbeast running about with 3min of swiftness without swift rune, this is ok, had also 20 stacks of stab btw.Scrapper that gets 25 stacks of might for 25s along with every other boon in the game exept quickness alacrity and res.Fine and dandy buff their damage.Warrior that has so much might generation that you dont even bother stripping it becouse its back in 4s, with one of the best mobility, damage and CC in the game. OKEDOKE.

As for mirage thing, if you fight against 4 guardians that tought shit man, its preety much dodge everything becouse retal alone will drop you to 20% during a fight.ammy doesnt matter.Went back to thief BTW, I have more mobility, survivability, sustain and dont have counters so hard that im not allowed to play if my oponent is good.Was fun to watch sind btw, ran into 4 people attacked mesmer, killed him didnt use any cooldowns full hp, fun gameplay.But hey, thats fine. having singular traits giving perma boons is cool.You play necro, mes hard counters you so you go around forums spewing baseles cries about it, joy to read. And for every person like you I will put EXTRA effort to make the MOST unfun builds to play agains, so that cries never stop.If mes gets nerfed ill make fucking scrapper to do the same shit to necros, just becouse I can.

Oh and btw, in about 2k+ games of PVP I had I got 1shot from stealth about 10 times total, 2 of which were from scrapper, 1 from core engi. 4 from mes and rest from holo. Guess what class actually had to put resources into making it possible? definitely not holo thats for sure.

[ZDragon.3046]

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:

You clearly have no bloody idea how the toughness works, IF he had prot and toughtness the 20-25k combo would hit him for 10k, he would be at half hp, with all cooldowns against berk ammy meser.Thats wishful thinking toughness is not that effective.

I fought prot holo, my combo did about half his hp, thats it. he heals to full in 1s and now I must leave, he knew my build and made right choice to switch, but you people do what you do best, complain.

How do you a know protection holo is running toughness though. You are assuming they did but using the idea that protection holo's damage reduction is a means to classify toughness on any other profession on equal footing WHICH IS WRONG by the way.You do know that holo or engi in general have lots of ways of reducing damage via raw percentages which is out right better than the flat reduction that toughness would offer. A prot who runs the bubble shield, has protection, and multiple other boons to trigger iron blooded or what ever the damage reduction trait is called is going to be very resistant to damage regardless of which ammy they use because the damage is being reduced up front by a method of a raw percent reduction stacking.

This is yet another reason why percentage values are more favorable than fixed stat values even if the fixed stats convert in some way to being a percentage value after they are applied. If a skill says take 10% reduced damage and you compare it to a trait that says gain 200 toughness the 10% reduced damage will be better no matter which amulet you run. For example zerker ammy with 80% or more damage reduction from traits and skills vs knight amulet will still result that the zerker ammy user will take far less damage. Because by no means does 2.2k toughness convert by any means to something to the effect of 80% or more damage reduction. Prot Holo can run bonus toughness and im not saying that they couldnt but they certainly dont need to. At one point they could reach 95% damage reduction in short instances and take less than 200 crits damage from other players on zerk ammy while they were running zerk ammy then anet made some modifications to how damage reduction traits added up which is why you dont see that anymore. My point is your looking at protection holo and assuming that what they do is = to what everyone else gets for taking some toughness and thats just straight up false.

Had FB that facetank 2 people while rezing for 20s, took no damage. Thats fine.This sounds unrealistic i dont even need to run glass reaper and attack a rezzing firebrand for 5 seconds than this to make them question that attempting to hold f is a mistake Lets also mention that generally speaking if this is a support firebrand it wont take him 20 seconds to res a player especially if your damage is that low that you had time to attack him or the perosn he was trying to save for 20 seconds. Should he be able to sit perfectly still for 20 seconds while under pressure form high dps and just be fine using no skills what so ever..... IVE NEVER SEEN THIS HAPPEN EVER!

Prot holo that I stood at max range and attacked for about a minute and he outhealed my damage with passive regenerations and healing turren without bothering to dodge anything, thats fine too.if all you did was stand at range and auto attack yeah that sounds about normal. You are not a ranger with a longbow your threat pressure is not that good from ranged. What were you thinking. That you cant auto someone to death with your great-sword or something :grey_question:

As for mirage thing, if you fight against 4 guardians that tought kitten man, its preety much dodge everything becouse retal alone will drop you to 20% during a fight.ammy doesnt matter.

No No No :astonished: if you just ran with more hp you wouldnt die you know this going in. This is the logic you just applied to someone else and just like that you now understand how you own statement made no sense.

Im no pro but you have much to learn about the game or games and stats in general and a lot of things happen which you dont seem to understand or make bad comparisons to justify your own suggestions. We all make miss reads from time to time but you do it far more often than you should which leads me to believe its not people like me who ruin the game its people like you who try to justify everything through double speak and misdirection. You dismissed my argument over how someone could falsely select an amulet by guessing what the other team was running to say "Well protection holo has good damage reduction" basically and then started pointing fingers at every other profession (most of which we already know are going to be nerfed in the future) to misdirect your initial insane statement of "well he should have had toughness!" ontop of what i can only is assuming that raw toughness works the same way as front loaded raw percentage reduction which is what prot holo is all about.

You flipped the script when your own logic is turned against you i think its safe to say we are done here :-1:

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:I think the crux of the problem is that it was given too much stealth.

In all of these years, I've never once had a problem with Power Shatter builds. I had always referenced them as "good & balanced" but lately that is not the case. Having too much stealth grants waaaaay too much ease of application for these nuclear 1HKOs, as well as too easy of disengage afterwards.

As of about the past 24 hours, I'm considering picking up Mesmer and forcing myself to play this disgusting build because it's just too good not to use, when you need a good swap to 1HKO for a carry vs. low tiered opponents.

I picked up Soulbeast to see how to use/counter the 22k Rapid Fire. Mowed sooooo many people down

[Leonidrex.5649]

@ZDragon.3046 not everyone has reaper level of damage to kill firebrand.Toughtness doesnt reduce damage by flat ammount, Damage is divided by toughtness, so the class with low toughtness ( ele,mesmer and necro ) get LARGE ammount of damage reduction from it.Damage done = (Weapon strength) Power (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor)

Mesmer in pvp has 1888 Armour.Taking 1200 toughness amulet increases it to 30881888/3088=0,61 meaning 39% damage reduction.20k combo on no toughness ammy would get turned into 12k combo.Combining it with protection futher changes the damage to under 9k. Numbers dont lie, friend.

About retaliation.Problem with retaliation is that IF you take tanky amulet = you must attack more to kill = you take more retaliation procs = you end up with the same outcome.IN FACT glass cannon amulet is BETTER against retaliation, becouse if you happen to burst retaliation user down, then you dont have to repeatedly hit the, and thus procing retaliation lower ammount of times.

Honestly, he could use Rune of earth, knights amulet and just laught at them. But he used same thing he would use at any other teamcomp.

[Zoricus.2439]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I am seriously getting tired of builds that can stealth in at you from 4000 some range and instantly drop your health from 100% to 0% with no tells.

It's a bad design that makes for a bad game that isn't fun to play.

Agreed.

[Aaralyna.3104]

I surely can't pull anything close to this on my gs mesmer (ok I don't use stealth as one only got so many options to have active). I am actually down pretty fast and at best do 5-6k dps I think. Mesmer also got nerfed a lot already. Not every player plays the mesmer in same way and not everyone is as proficient/skilled.

However stealth should have some tells... Even if its just some alarm you hear when any stealted enemy is within x range of you would be nice so you can expect you may be ambushed any moment without having the stealth person actually visible. You only don't know how many tho as it should not only be for mesmer but also other professions with stealth (or ones that got group stealted by another class). Or some skill all classes have that works like a detector (like warclaw has). As long as you know its around you, you can at least prepare a little. And skill you can choose to use it or not use it.

And if they change mesmer yet again, let it be pvp only.

Btw that second vid I didn't find a good example. That whole team was mesmers with same setup and on voice... In ranked I never even ended up with more than 2 mesmers in same team (and then saw the same amount in opponents team) and definetly nobody uses voice chat.

[sarangajit.5648]

Any attack after going to stealth for more than 3 secs gives an effect that reduces outgoing damage by 50% for 1 sec. It is still possible to 1 shot people from stealth within the first 3 secs but it gives enough counterplay to the opponent to avoid it. Also going out of stealth after more than 3 secs gives the same effect so that they cannot time the 1shot burst with the end of stealth.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"Liza.2758" said:u know i'm not defending the build but u can't really say there is no counter play

the counter play is simply ur reaction. u will most likely say how can u react to that in 1 - 2 sec.

The instant dead is very common in League. 1 shot from stealth 1 shot from brush 1 shot from dark area.

super fast reaction is part of what determined how good player is

https://twitter.com/gzeebee/status/1073584565464121344?s=20

something like this.

That's not instant... Whoever that player is had two visual indicator's that the player was there. That's pretty easy to react to honestly.

A properly executed mantra burst is way faster than that.

https://www.twitch.tv/vallun/clip/HedonisticWanderingBeanFutureMan?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

[Shao.7236]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Liza.2758" said:u know i'm not defending the build but u can't really say there is no counter play

the counter play is simply ur reaction. u will most likely say how can u react to that in 1 - 2 sec.

The instant dead is very common in League. 1 shot from stealth 1 shot from brush 1 shot from dark area.

super fast reaction is part of what determined how good player is

https://twitter.com/gzeebee/status/1073584565464121344?s=20

something like this.

That's not instant... Whoever that player is had two visual indicator's that the player was there. That's pretty easy to react to honestly.

A properly executed mantra burst is way faster than that.

https://www.twitch.tv/vallun/clip/HedonisticWanderingBeanFutureMan?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

Visually speaking here, Vallun has clearly some delay in his game compared to most of what I've seen.

So to factor that in, reveal on Mirror Blade is still totally not out of the realm of possibility for this overall non sense to stop.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Shao.7236 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Liza.2758" said:u know i'm not defending the build but u can't really say there is no counter play

the counter play is simply ur reaction. u will most likely say how can u react to that in 1 - 2 sec.

The instant dead is very common in League. 1 shot from stealth 1 shot from brush 1 shot from dark area.

super fast reaction is part of what determined how good player is

https://twitter.com/gzeebee/status/1073584565464121344?s=20

something like this.

That's not instant... Whoever that player is had two visual indicator's that the player was there. That's pretty easy to react to honestly.

A properly executed mantra burst is way faster than that.

https://www.twitch.tv/vallun/clip/HedonisticWanderingBeanFutureMan?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

Visually speaking here, Vallun has clearly some delay in his game compared to most of what I've seen.

So to factor that in, reveal on Mirror Blade is still totally not out of the realm of possibility for this overall non sense to stop.

That burst was well under 250 ms. Even with 0 ping that would've been extremely difficult for an athlete with an exceptionally fast reaction time to see and respond to in time.

[Burnfall.9573]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I donno dont think it's fair to tilt to mesmer alone. This whole game is utter garbage these days and condi as a whole is at a ridiculous level. All u see is condi guards/dh, dire weavers,mirages etc pretty much anything with condi builds are overperforming. Each point in conquest is like wvw with scourges it's just perma covered in condis, real fun and if it's not some ridiculous condi burst build(yeah condi's are so OP right now it's a burst worth each tick) than it's some complete cheese power build built to hard cc and strip the opponent to 0 hp in 2 sec flat. That's all this game is nowadays. Hate to think what the population will be next yr lol

Pointing fingers at Necromancer Profession....Necromancer is a condition base Profession; what else should be expected from them? while Thief Profession is an All-In-One Meta Build Profession...(yes there there is a profession in guild wars 2 who is the Meta itself and who have total control of it at will) who continually being excused and justified for their complete role of guild wars 2 being Toxic in the first place

Unlike All-In-One Meta Build Thief Profession who are continually protected by Anet for 7 years, Mesmer Profession are continually on their watch and are nerfed more

Infact, All-In-One Meta Build Thief Profession has been Toxic to the game since guild wars 2 beta and are given more privilege with free pass than every profession in the game to do whatever they want to destroy every potential healthy competitive gaming experience in guild wars 2 yet till this day, absolutely Nothing is done to address them?

Not even to go as far to rework this Toxic All-In-One Meta Profession for the well being of the game including its players?

All fingers should be pointed at this Toxicity until Anet truly want the best interest for the game including its players

[Leonidrex.5649]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"Liza.2758" said:u know i'm not defending the build but u can't really say there is no counter play

the counter play is simply ur reaction. u will most likely say how can u react to that in 1 - 2 sec.

The instant dead is very common in League. 1 shot from stealth 1 shot from brush 1 shot from dark area.

super fast reaction is part of what determined how good player is

https://twitter.com/gzeebee/status/1073584565464121344?s=20

something like this.

That's not instant... Whoever that player is had two visual indicator's that the player was there. That's pretty easy to react to honestly.

A properly executed mantra burst is way faster than that.

https://www.twitch.tv/vallun/clip/HedonisticWanderingBeanFutureMan?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

Its not him appearing he had to react, Its him flashing ( teleporting when he was mid air ) if he was 0,05s slower he would have died, if he was tiny bitfaster, his cocoon would fly over and he would have died. THIS is not his reaction being good, pro player got lucky there. He didnt anticipate kha flash, can got lucky that kha flashed into his cocoon otherwise he would be dead.

Some pro players havereaction time of 150ms, watch csgo pros play, expectially those with AWP.Also saying that the burst was well under 250 is plain wrong becouse gs3 alone has 250ms casttime.

[Hylo.1968]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Liza.2758" said:u know i'm not defending the build but u can't really say there is no counter play

the counter play is simply ur reaction. u will most likely say how can u react to that in 1 - 2 sec.

The instant dead is very common in League. 1 shot from stealth 1 shot from brush 1 shot from dark area.

super fast reaction is part of what determined how good player is

https://twitter.com/gzeebee/status/1073584565464121344?s=20

something like this.

No. You clearly don't play Guild Wars 2 if you believe there is any counter play to any of this. Watch the first 60s of this video for an example of what I mean. Notice that you can't even see where the Mesmer is at all or where he was or where he is going, and by the time damage lands there is quite seriously "Zero reaction time." I mean this nasty disgusting bull@#$% is worse than Deadeye or Soulbeasts ever were. With Deadeyes and Soulbeasts, at least you can see them from time to time and get to hear noises or see animations before you get blown up. And even DE & Soulbeast damage doesn't actually instantly kill you. You may see your health quickly drop, but there is actually reaction time. This Power Mesmer #$%^ seriously gives you 0 reaction time.

It's garbage and completely worthy of a hotfix like CI was given.

@"RisenHowl.2419" said:Let me preface this by saying yes, i understand it's a meme build. It's easy to kill when you have invuln for the initial burst. Just Dodge. Only bad players die against power mes. Bring a reveal. Watch the minimap. etc.

GW2 pvp player population is at an all time low, imagine someone starting out in pvp running into this. Why on earth would they come back?

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:I am seriously getting tired of builds that can stealth in at you from 4000 some range and instantly drop your health from 100% to 0% with no tells.

It's a bad design that makes for a bad game that isn't fun to play.Am I the only one who thinks that this is a trollpost?

It's definitely not a troll post. I'm being 100% serious. And while we're talking about "trolling" this stupid high stealth uptime build also has of late been encouraging players to abuse speedhack & even telehack. Yeah, I'm an old player and I know the game well. I've known the game well for years and I keep up on every patch update. I know how far a Core Mesmer can realistically move across a map legitimately, whether it is stealthed or not. When I send a Mesmer on respawn from my home node in Legacy, and the dude is seriously back on top of me in like 10s,1HKOing me from stealth, that's enormously jacked up speed hack or tele hack, one or the other. That is not possible with just Blink & Super Speed. So yeah I'm pissed off about it. Because in this cause, speed hack and tele hack starts turning into this "auto kill" hack when it's being used on a build like Power Core Mesmer.

It's straight ruining not only ranked, but like unranked and ATs. It needs to be dealt with ASAP.

Idk if it's you on this necro, but your utilities were trash my boy.I can understand your complaint but I personally find power core mesmer fine. I could maybe ask for a change of the spammable mantra of pain.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I donno dont think it's fair to tilt to mesmer alone. This whole game is utter garbage these days and condi as a whole is at a ridiculous level. All u see is condi guards/dh, dire weavers,mirages etc pretty much anything with condi builds are overperforming.

Each point in conquest is like wvw with scourges it's just perma covered in condis

, real fun and if it's not some ridiculous condi burst build(yeah condi's are so OP right now it's a burst worth each tick) than it's some complete cheese power build built to hard cc and strip the opponent to 0 hp in 2 sec flat. That's all this game is nowadays. Hate to think what the population will be next yr lol

Pointing fingers at Necromancer Profession....Necromancer is a condition base Profession; what else should be expected from them? while Thief Profession is an All-In-One Meta Build Profession...(yes there there is a profession in guild wars 2 who is the Meta itself and who have total control of it at will) who continually being excused and justified for their complete role of guild wars 2 being Toxic in the first place

Unlike All-In-One Meta Build Thief Profession who are continually protected by Anet for 7 years, Mesmer Profession are continually on their watch and are nerfed more

Infact, All-In-One Meta Build Thief Profession has been Toxic to the game since guild wars 2 beta and are given more privilege with free pass than every profession in the game to do whatever they want to destroy every potential healthy competitive gaming experience in guild wars 2 yet till this day, absolutely Nothing is done to address them?

Not even to go as far to rework this Toxic All-In-One Meta Profession for the well being of the game including its players?

All fingers should be pointed at this Toxicity until Anet truly want the best interest for the game including its players

Not pointing fingers atNecro at all. I'm saying in conquest condi's have become so rampant the nodes are being covered like zergs are by scourges in wvw. Burn guards,fire weavers,scourges/necrosis etc etc just spam condis on point every match all match. For fun I popped resistance on warrior and ran on point and watched my hp go 100-0 in literally 2 secs and that's after also using shake it off while having resistance my hp still tanked in seconds and that is not how condi's should be. It was like I got power burst by 3 players at the same time

[Shao.7236]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I donno dont think it's fair to tilt to mesmer alone. This whole game is utter garbage these days and condi as a whole is at a ridiculous level. All u see is condi guards/dh, dire weavers,mirages etc pretty much anything with condi builds are overperforming.

Each point in conquest is like wvw with scourges it's just perma covered in condis

, real fun and if it's not some ridiculous condi burst build(yeah condi's are so OP right now it's a burst worth each tick) than it's some complete cheese power build built to hard cc and strip the opponent to 0 hp in 2 sec flat. That's all this game is nowadays. Hate to think what the population will be next yr lol

Pointing fingers at Necromancer Profession....Necromancer is a condition base Profession; what else should be expected from them? while Thief Profession is an All-In-One Meta Build Profession...(yes there there is a profession in guild wars 2 who is the Meta itself and who have total control of it at will) who continually being excused and justified for their complete role of guild wars 2 being Toxic in the first place

Unlike All-In-One Meta Build Thief Profession who are continually protected by Anet for 7 years, Mesmer Profession are continually on their watch and are nerfed more

Infact, All-In-One Meta Build Thief Profession has been Toxic to the game since guild wars 2 beta and are given more privilege with free pass than every profession in the game to do whatever they want to destroy every potential healthy competitive gaming experience in guild wars 2 yet till this day, absolutely Nothing is done to address them?

Not even to go as far to rework this Toxic All-In-One Meta Profession for the well being of the game including its players?

All fingers should be pointed at this Toxicity until Anet truly want the best interest for the game including its players

Not pointing fingers atNecro at all. I'm saying in conquest condi's have become so rampant the nodes are being covered like zergs are by scourges in wvw. Burn guards,fire weavers,scourges/necrosis etc etc just spam condis on point every match all match. For fun I popped resistance on warrior and ran on point and watched my hp go 100-0 in literally 2 secs and that's after also using shake it off while having resistance my hp still tanked in seconds and that is not how condi's should be. It was like I got power burst by 3 players at the same time

You don't really want to stand on node when you know people have a lot of AoE's anyway unless you're build to face tank such pressure. Take your opportunities, some will guard nodes better for a while but not permanently.