Ranger Greatsword is Dead - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Ranger Greatsword is Dead

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Comments

  • verskore.4312verskore.4312 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

    @ZhouX.8742 said:
    You can tell Durz and Swagger never fight actual top tier players just from their comments like shadow does on a regular basis against monthly AT winners and people who actually understand creating space, mobility in fights and how important it is.

    It's so funny to see, but sad at the same time because this is the state of PvP in this game. Also, do any of you 2 even actually play top tier pvp to even have a comment on actual skill play with GS / Sword? or just wvw roam? I'm guessing WvW roam.

    I was until yesterday in platinum, EU server. I am not very good, due to my age, lag, etc. Still platinum is not a lower rank either. I can say that GS is not anymore an option for sPVP if you want to level up more than gold I. GS + Longbow in both sPVP and WvW is no longer a viable solution.
    I don't know what rank @Durzlla.6295 and @Swagger.1459 have, but I am waiting for them to confirm 😊.
    I am playing now axe+axe/sword+warhorn. Surv/Nat/Soulb. The build it is pretty solid. Still I am missing my Gs/Lb with MM/Bm/Soulb.

    im p2 EU and run sic em lb/gs, i also rlly dont like the GS 4 change but I learned to live with it, you just have to time your Knockback better now so it takes more skill nowadays. The evade nerf on GS AA is worse though, cleaving by AAing got so much harder now. Apart from these changes GS is still very much viable in higher tier gameplay but not as much as it used to be.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2019

    @RangerThings.9810 said:
    Why was the change to GS4 made? Is this an "improvement" or a nerf? Did GS have too much utility, so throw was taken away?

    It was clunky like most of the ranger weapons . You activate that and randomly becasue a clone or a pve mob you go into the kick.
    Right now IMO the GS is better. You can relay in the full duration of the block at least.

    What killed the GS is the nerf to the autoattack whom nobody asked like ever. At least they could have speed up the chain so it is no so punshing to try to finish the AA chain.

  • Mokk.2397Mokk.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    No doubt much of this has been argued but I still need to vent over this.
    ANET devs must think people that play rangers are complete morons . What idiot would stand there, holding their sword in the air, for any opponent to see, for 5 eternal seconds waiting for someone to attack so we can kick them. Seriously did you guys come up with this on a Monday morning after a long weekend of partying? I don't mind loosing a bit of evade but but changing the number 4 skill to this has to be a joke . I Mean Come ON seriously?

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2019

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Despite the lack of auto evade and the loss of Crippling throw, the ability to block everything for 3s is amazing.

    Do we need one or both of those back? Yes. Am I mad things got changed? Yeah.

    That being said, having played it out, GS definitely has a different feel and yet still feels quite strong imo.

    Fully agree with you, the full block on GS is amazing..for me the weapon is better than before

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    Just played again and the melee changes are great hope they apply the new design philosophy to every weapon of every class

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2019

    The evade loss is a valid concern but raging about GS4 throw no longer existing is completely unfounded. It could literally be sidestepped and its projectile was so slow it was super easy to LOS on almost anything. But honestly, it wasn't even worth LOS'ing because it was kitten lol.

    If you're getting kited on a soulbeast with GS while playing multiple pets with mobility you're definitively doing something wrong.
    If I can take pre-buff reaper to not get kited by tourney-level/near-tourney-level pre-nerf daredevils... yeah... you're misplaying your mobility effects.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2019

    @RangerThings.9810 said:
    Why was the change to GS4 made? Is this an "improvement" or a nerf? Did GS have too much utility, so throw was taken away?

    Yes and no.
    Basically it was made for fluidity and so that GS no longer dominates sword as hard in these game modes. So you basically have more than one viable option.
    GS is still good. It's not that hugely fantastic as it was before but still good.

  • Ragi.7291Ragi.7291 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2019

    The GS redesign is pretty good maybe not for you but for the game in general.
    So yes there are problems in terms of damage balancing and condition in the different game modes.
    example in pve raid in power build Soulbeast, we use the dagger because it makes more damage whereas it is a weapon condi and not the sword (here there is a problem of damage in pve)
    On the other hand, VS players conditions such as Crippled, immobilization, poison,... are extremely strong conditions so when pve is very very very weak.
    Here the dagger in second hand has extremely strong conditions that are poison and Cripple for pvp, but this weapon if it is conditions are not replaced by something much more impacting for pve this one will once again be unplayable/ineffective in pve mode.

    You tell us you don't like the fact that you lost your dodge on your self attack.
    I understand you but this dodge was far too strong for very good players and too random for all the rest of the players.
    One of the big problems with GW2 is its system, which is far too rich and therefore complicated for the vast majority of players.
    The difference between a pve "casu" player and a very good player can go up to 500% difference in terms of dps on the same targets and in pvp it is not even comparable.
    Anet must make the gameplay simpler to allow a larger population of the game to make the whole content and therefore to make them play more....

    Maybe you may be telling me "no this gameplay and this system is simple" but no.
    A large part of the players do not even know what hard CC and soft CC are and even less do they know what they are used for.
    Most people do not use the combo system, a combo zone in the game.
    Because already, they can't use their skills at the right time, they do too much, some have no readability.
    I give you an example that for me is one of the reasons for the success of FF14, they lowered the average level for a person to use his build.
    They have made for example that hard CC skills don't inflict any damage so people are intuitively guided to use this skill only when they really need it and not to rely on all their skill as quickly as possible.

    I find that on some points and some weapons they take the right direction a skill = a precise utility.
    Then they don't go far enough for my taste.

    Yet another GW1 example with an incredibly good and technical gameplay and for time, you had very little skill and 0 other combo system or other.
    All the technicality was in the construction of your build and its application with parsimony.
    And for the PvE on GW2, currently the mobs are extremely weak we would say a hack'n' slash, even the raid bosses have what 3 or 4 mechanics.
    A simpler gameplay allows to have more complicated mobs with more mechanics or a much higher requirement in verse.
    Currently in all game modes, the 1st credo is to kill your opponent as soon as possible.
    There is almost more that fight it is executions, in pvp you die in 3 seconds in raid pve you fall many boss in 1 to 2 minutes for very good players.

    We need a simpler gameplay so that as many people as possible can play together and make up a very large part of the available content.

  • could add a sec of cripple to 3rd auto maybe ppl be happy

    Te lazla otstara.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2019

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    Just played again and the melee changes are great hope they apply the new design philosophy to every weapon of every class

    The greatsword changes were a nerf in literally every way. The full duration block was easily done by spamming jump prior to the nerfs so essentially we lost out on Crippling Throw and the evade on gs autos. The knockback is even easier to dodge now and the evade is actually worthless because you're rooted in place and the duration is so short.

    Sword might feel more fluid simply because the forward leap is on 2 but it is straight up worse against any competent player.

    Yay great changes right? /s

  • Krispera.5087Krispera.5087 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Despite the lack of auto evade and the loss of Crippling throw, the ability to block everything for 3s is amazing.

    Do we need one or both of those back? Yes. Am I mad things got changed? Yeah.

    That being said, having played it out, GS definitely has a different feel and yet still feels quite strong imo.

    Fully agree with you, the full block on GS is amazing..for me the weapon is better than before

    New Counterattack is pretty kitten good.
    RIP AA.

  • Ashkew.6584Ashkew.6584 Member ✭✭✭

    Tbh, i find it interresting to see so many players talking about the loss of the auto evade and its stow trick, but in reality like 95% of the players i fought never used the evade/stow trick.

    Greatsword is still great, i play on EU on f2p and am in plat 3 using it, on other account same, and in NA currently on nr11 LB all using core ranger lb/gs. ITs very much viable, the block is amazing, they removed the counterplay from it which most skilled players used against u, they cant proc the counterkick. i mean its great, gives great sustain and a controlled cc.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashkew.6584 said:
    Tbh, i find it interresting to see so many players talking about the loss of the auto evade and its stow trick, but in reality like 95% of the players i fought never used the evade/stow trick.

    Greatsword is still great, i play on EU on f2p and am in plat 3 using it, on other account same, and in NA currently on nr11 LB all using core ranger lb/gs. ITs very much viable, the block is amazing, they removed the counterplay from it which most skilled players used against u, they cant proc the counterkick. i mean its great, gives great sustain and a controlled cc.

    Yes so that's specifically what I said in regards to the nerfs "removing the skill ceiling" on the weapon. Because, as you said yourself, only a fraction of rangers (usually skilled ones that have practiced using the gs auto evades reliably) were able to use it.

    Again, spamming jump would've prevented the counterattack from triggering. Thus, the full duration block was already able to be achieved prior to the nerfs.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2019

    @Ferus.3165 said:
    just play deadeye... super safe, super easy and does the same job lb ranger does, but with blinks and more stealth.

    Let's not forget, Thief got nerfed once in the history of GW2. That's all. It's a wonderful option!

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    Just played again and the melee changes are great hope they apply the new design philosophy to every weapon of every class

    The greatsword changes were a nerf in literally every way. The full duration block was easily done by spamming jump prior to the nerfs so essentially we lost out on Crippling Throw and the evade on gs autos. The knockback is even easier to dodge now and the evade is actually worthless because you're rooted in place and the duration is so short.

    Sword might feel more fluid simply because the forward leap is on 2 but it is straight up worse against any competent player.

    Yay great changes right? /s

    The ya block change is kinda lame with the root (i wish they would unroot that and whirling defense ranger really needs some better cleave), I really do agree with you there. Still feel like the removal of evade frame on auto is an overall good change for the game, I hope they continue to tone down the amount of I frames in the game. And judging but there patch preview I think they are going to.

    as for the sword having an instant forward leap is so good dor chasing down targets, Since the original sword auto rework I hated how sword felt as it seemed only good for defensive plays.

    Now thinking about it more i really wish they had put that dev time into dagger mh, torch offhand, and druid overall (boy does it feel lame now to play in PvP)

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 24, 2019

    @Eleazar.9478 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    Just played again and the melee changes are great hope they apply the new design philosophy to every weapon of every class

    The greatsword changes were a nerf in literally every way. The full duration block was easily done by spamming jump prior to the nerfs so essentially we lost out on Crippling Throw and the evade on gs autos. The knockback is even easier to dodge now and the evade is actually worthless because you're rooted in place and the duration is so short.

    Sword might feel more fluid simply because the forward leap is on 2 but it is straight up worse against any competent player.

    Yay great changes right? /s

    The ya block change is kinda lame with the root (i wish they would unroot that and whirling defense ranger really needs some better cleave), I really do agree with you there. Still feel like the removal of evade frame on auto is an overall good change for the game, I hope they continue to tone down the amount of I frames in the game. And judging but there patch preview I think they are going to.

    as for the sword having an instant forward leap is so good dor chasing down targets, Since the original sword auto rework I hated how sword felt as it seemed only good for defensive plays.

    Now thinking about it more i really wish they had put that dev time into dagger mh, torch offhand, and druid overall (boy does it feel lame now to play in PvP)

    I don't know what types of players you're fighting but greatsword ranger already had losing matchups against all of the current side noders: Holo, SPB, Weaver, Symbolbrand, etc. etc. prior to the nerfs especially against players that know how to play their specs properly like Helio or Grimjack.

    Losing the greatsword auto evades means we flat out do not have any staying power on node when using our primary melee weaponset in both team fights and 1v1s. It was a horrible change considering this classes' spot in the previous and current meta.

    @Cal Cohen.2358 please add the evades on the greatsword autos back. Yes, we lost a ridiculous amount of utility with the removal of Crippling Throw (ie. cripple to prevent people from running away/chasing allies/getting to a point too fast for us to prevent a decap/projectile finisher that can blind when coupled with Smokescale F2) that you guys decided was perfectly fine to take away from us, but the loss of gs evades hurt the weapon more than anything else. The ability to survive on greatsword went from B+ tier to D at best. Good players can punish the non evade frames on Swoop consistently with interrupts to prevent the mobility and simply kiting away from the Counterattack prevents the knockback from landing. Our autos are essentially useless filler damage now and the entire weapon revolves around landing Mauls and running away with a "new" full duration block (that we had prior to the nerfs by spamming jump) into a potential Hilt Bash and more Mauls.

    You guys turned an incredibly fun, balanced weapon that rangers' have had since release into a one-dimensional shadow of it's former self. There's barely any distinction between the way a new player uses this weapon compared to an experienced one because you guys decided to nullify nearly all of the outplay potential whilst simultaneously lowering the skill ceiling to the skill floor.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    Just played again and the melee changes are great hope they apply the new design philosophy to every weapon of every class

    The greatsword changes were a nerf in literally every way. The full duration block was easily done by spamming jump prior to the nerfs so essentially we lost out on Crippling Throw and the evade on gs autos. The knockback is even easier to dodge now and the evade is actually worthless because you're rooted in place and the duration is so short.

    Sword might feel more fluid simply because the forward leap is on 2 but it is straight up worse against any competent player.

    Yay great changes right? /s

    The ya block change is kinda lame with the root (i wish they would unroot that and whirling defense ranger really needs some better cleave), I really do agree with you there. Still feel like the removal of evade frame on auto is an overall good change for the game, I hope they continue to tone down the amount of I frames in the game. And judging but there patch preview I think they are going to.

    as for the sword having an instant forward leap is so good dor chasing down targets, Since the original sword auto rework I hated how sword felt as it seemed only good for defensive plays.

    Now thinking about it more i really wish they had put that dev time into dagger mh, torch offhand, and druid overall (boy does it feel lame now to play in PvP)

    I don't know what types of players you're fighting but greatsword ranger already had losing matchups against all of the current side noders: Holo, SPB, Weaver, Symbolbrand, etc. etc. prior to the nerfs especially against players that know how to play their specs properly like Helio or Grimjack.

    Losing the greatsword auto evades means we flat out do not have any staying power on node when using our primary melee weaponset in both team fights and 1v1s. It was a horrible change considering this classes' spot in the previous and current meta.

    @Cal Cohen.2358 please add the evades on the greatsword autos back. Yes, we lost a ridiculous amount of utility with the removal of Crippling Throw (ie. cripple to prevent people from running away/chasing allies/getting to a point too fast for us to prevent a decap/projectile finisher that can blind when coupled with Smokescale F2) that you guys decided was perfectly fine to take away from us, but the loss of gs evades hurt the weapon more than anything else. The ability to survive on greatsword went from B+ tier to D at best. Good players can punish the non evade frames on Swoop consistently with interrupts to prevent the mobility and simply kiting away from the Counterattack prevents the knockback from landing. Our autos are essentially useless filler damage now and the entire weapon revolves around landing Mauls and running away with a "new" full duration block (that we had prior to the nerfs by spamming jump) into a potential Hilt Bash and more Mauls.

    You guys turned an incredibly fun, balanced weapon that rangers' have had since release into a one-dimensional shadow of it's former self. There's barely any distinction between the way a new player uses this weapon compared to an experienced one because you guys decided to nullify nearly all of the outplay potential whilst simultaneously lowering the skill ceiling to the skill floor.

    This is the answer you seek

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    HEY MAN!

    Ranger is FIRE right now! Seriously. The GS auto evade nerf SUCKS and there are times where I eat prime light beams or full power mes shatters or something because I am mid "ENDURING STAB" and thinking it's still gonna let me evade. The nerf of GS throw SUCKS and it's pretty brutal not being able to chase someone down without it. Or being able to swap, throw it in, and then come in with swoop or smokescale assault....

    What this has meant for me, is I have to be more opportunistic with when I go into the fight, and since it's no longer as optimal to just swap to GS if they have CDs up and can just run away from me now that crippling throw is gone - and this is actually kind of a good thing, it makes ME play smarter imo.

    What we gained: GS 4. A three second block feels like an eternity, yeah we could auto GS evade for about 3s, and we had the block that we could use to kite and whatnot, but this FEELS way longer and gives a nice reprieve from the mental speed gymnastics you'd have to do on ranger before when your counterattack got triggered. On top of that, the Counterattack kick now hitting 3 targets is actually major. I too was worried about mesmers and clones and whatnot, but being able to just straight up block everything for 3s and then cleave all the clones out in front of you with an evade knockback is actually pretty sweet - and one of the main reasons why this skill turned out OK, even if I lament the losses of the other skills.

    I solo queued up to Top 10 this season and had some of the most fun I have had in awhile. Of course, I play a little more DPS and roaming oriented than you do, but I actually was forced to make sure home was ok for most games which meant fighting wars, eles, mesmers, thieves, etc and I came out on top or held long enough for the situation to change where I could get a + or I could leave - a big part of this was GS 4.

    Give it a shot,
    I think ranger is in a solid place. The new sword changes are sweet, the new GS change is actually good, I've seen viable boonbeasts, core rangers, and lb/gs soulbeasts as well. Game is in a pretty decent spot right now imo.

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    Just played again and the melee changes are great hope they apply the new design philosophy to every weapon of every class

    The greatsword changes were a nerf in literally every way. The full duration block was easily done by spamming jump prior to the nerfs so essentially we lost out on Crippling Throw and the evade on gs autos. The knockback is even easier to dodge now and the evade is actually worthless because you're rooted in place and the duration is so short.

    Sword might feel more fluid simply because the forward leap is on 2 but it is straight up worse against any competent player.

    Yay great changes right? /s

    The ya block change is kinda lame with the root (i wish they would unroot that and whirling defense ranger really needs some better cleave), I really do agree with you there. Still feel like the removal of evade frame on auto is an overall good change for the game, I hope they continue to tone down the amount of I frames in the game. And judging but there patch preview I think they are going to.

    as for the sword having an instant forward leap is so good dor chasing down targets, Since the original sword auto rework I hated how sword felt as it seemed only good for defensive plays.

    Now thinking about it more i really wish they had put that dev time into dagger mh, torch offhand, and druid overall (boy does it feel lame now to play in PvP)

    I don't know what types of players you're fighting but greatsword ranger already had losing matchups against all of the current side noders: Holo, SPB, Weaver, Symbolbrand, etc. etc. prior to the nerfs especially against players that know how to play their specs properly like Helio or Grimjack.

    Losing the greatsword auto evades means we flat out do not have any staying power on node when using our primary melee weaponset in both team fights and 1v1s. It was a horrible change considering this classes' spot in the previous and current meta.

    @Cal Cohen.2358 please add the evades on the greatsword autos back. Yes, we lost a ridiculous amount of utility with the removal of Crippling Throw (ie. cripple to prevent people from running away/chasing allies/getting to a point too fast for us to prevent a decap/projectile finisher that can blind when coupled with Smokescale F2) that you guys decided was perfectly fine to take away from us, but the loss of gs evades hurt the weapon more than anything else. The ability to survive on greatsword went from B+ tier to D at best. Good players can punish the non evade frames on Swoop consistently with interrupts to prevent the mobility and simply kiting away from the Counterattack prevents the knockback from landing. Our autos are essentially useless filler damage now and the entire weapon revolves around landing Mauls and running away with a "new" full duration block (that we had prior to the nerfs by spamming jump) into a potential Hilt Bash and more Mauls.

    You guys turned an incredibly fun, balanced weapon that rangers' have had since release into a one-dimensional shadow of it's former self. There's barely any distinction between the way a new player uses this weapon compared to an experienced one because you guys decided to nullify nearly all of the outplay potential whilst simultaneously lowering the skill ceiling to the skill floor.

    This is the answer you seek

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    HEY MAN!

    Ranger is FIRE right now! Seriously. The GS auto evade nerf SUCKS and there are times where I eat prime light beams or full power mes shatters or something because I am mid "ENDURING STAB" and thinking it's still gonna let me evade. The nerf of GS throw SUCKS and it's pretty brutal not being able to chase someone down without it. Or being able to swap, throw it in, and then come in with swoop or smokescale assault....

    What this has meant for me, is I have to be more opportunistic with when I go into the fight, and since it's no longer as optimal to just swap to GS if they have CDs up and can just run away from me now that crippling throw is gone - and this is actually kind of a good thing, it makes ME play smarter imo.

    What we gained: GS 4. A three second block feels like an eternity, yeah we could auto GS evade for about 3s, and we had the block that we could use to kite and whatnot, but this FEELS way longer and gives a nice reprieve from the mental speed gymnastics you'd have to do on ranger before when your counterattack got triggered. On top of that, the Counterattack kick now hitting 3 targets is actually major. I too was worried about mesmers and clones and whatnot, but being able to just straight up block everything for 3s and then cleave all the clones out in front of you with an evade knockback is actually pretty sweet - and one of the main reasons why this skill turned out OK, even if I lament the losses of the other skills.

    I solo queued up to Top 10 this season and had some of the most fun I have had in awhile. Of course, I play a little more DPS and roaming oriented than you do, but I actually was forced to make sure home was ok for most games which meant fighting wars, eles, mesmers, thieves, etc and I came out on top or held long enough for the situation to change where I could get a + or I could leave - a big part of this was GS 4.

    Give it a shot,
    I think ranger is in a solid place. The new sword changes are sweet, the new GS change is actually good, I've seen viable boonbeasts, core rangers, and lb/gs soulbeasts as well. Game is in a pretty decent spot right now imo.

    I already read that and I get what Eura is saying. His muscle memory got messed up because of the auto change and he misses the GS4 throw.

    He's had to change the way he plays as a result of the changes and now he has to play much more conservatively because of the loss of defense/utility on greatsword.

    The full GS4 block could've been done prior to the nerfs by spamming jump. The only thing that changed was a bug that allowed some attacks to hit through the block if we were in the air. I mean, great, they fixed the bug but I'd much rather have the pre-nerf gs over the current one. It's much, much weaker than it was (and it wasn't even overpowered to begin with).

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    Just played again and the melee changes are great hope they apply the new design philosophy to every weapon of every class

    The greatsword changes were a nerf in literally every way. The full duration block was easily done by spamming jump prior to the nerfs so essentially we lost out on Crippling Throw and the evade on gs autos. The knockback is even easier to dodge now and the evade is actually worthless because you're rooted in place and the duration is so short.

    Sword might feel more fluid simply because the forward leap is on 2 but it is straight up worse against any competent player.

    Yay great changes right? /s

    The ya block change is kinda lame with the root (i wish they would unroot that and whirling defense ranger really needs some better cleave), I really do agree with you there. Still feel like the removal of evade frame on auto is an overall good change for the game, I hope they continue to tone down the amount of I frames in the game. And judging but there patch preview I think they are going to.

    as for the sword having an instant forward leap is so good dor chasing down targets, Since the original sword auto rework I hated how sword felt as it seemed only good for defensive plays.

    Now thinking about it more i really wish they had put that dev time into dagger mh, torch offhand, and druid overall (boy does it feel lame now to play in PvP)

    I don't know what types of players you're fighting but greatsword ranger already had losing matchups against all of the current side noders: Holo, SPB, Weaver, Symbolbrand, etc. etc. prior to the nerfs especially against players that know how to play their specs properly like Helio or Grimjack.

    Losing the greatsword auto evades means we flat out do not have any staying power on node when using our primary melee weaponset in both team fights and 1v1s. It was a horrible change considering this classes' spot in the previous and current meta.

    @Cal Cohen.2358 please add the evades on the greatsword autos back. Yes, we lost a ridiculous amount of utility with the removal of Crippling Throw (ie. cripple to prevent people from running away/chasing allies/getting to a point too fast for us to prevent a decap/projectile finisher that can blind when coupled with Smokescale F2) that you guys decided was perfectly fine to take away from us, but the loss of gs evades hurt the weapon more than anything else. The ability to survive on greatsword went from B+ tier to D at best. Good players can punish the non evade frames on Swoop consistently with interrupts to prevent the mobility and simply kiting away from the Counterattack prevents the knockback from landing. Our autos are essentially useless filler damage now and the entire weapon revolves around landing Mauls and running away with a "new" full duration block (that we had prior to the nerfs by spamming jump) into a potential Hilt Bash and more Mauls.

    You guys turned an incredibly fun, balanced weapon that rangers' have had since release into a one-dimensional shadow of it's former self. There's barely any distinction between the way a new player uses this weapon compared to an experienced one because you guys decided to nullify nearly all of the outplay potential whilst simultaneously lowering the skill ceiling to the skill floor.

    This is the answer you seek

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    HEY MAN!

    Ranger is FIRE right now! Seriously. The GS auto evade nerf SUCKS and there are times where I eat prime light beams or full power mes shatters or something because I am mid "ENDURING STAB" and thinking it's still gonna let me evade. The nerf of GS throw SUCKS and it's pretty brutal not being able to chase someone down without it. Or being able to swap, throw it in, and then come in with swoop or smokescale assault....

    What this has meant for me, is I have to be more opportunistic with when I go into the fight, and since it's no longer as optimal to just swap to GS if they have CDs up and can just run away from me now that crippling throw is gone - and this is actually kind of a good thing, it makes ME play smarter imo.

    What we gained: GS 4. A three second block feels like an eternity, yeah we could auto GS evade for about 3s, and we had the block that we could use to kite and whatnot, but this FEELS way longer and gives a nice reprieve from the mental speed gymnastics you'd have to do on ranger before when your counterattack got triggered. On top of that, the Counterattack kick now hitting 3 targets is actually major. I too was worried about mesmers and clones and whatnot, but being able to just straight up block everything for 3s and then cleave all the clones out in front of you with an evade knockback is actually pretty sweet - and one of the main reasons why this skill turned out OK, even if I lament the losses of the other skills.

    I solo queued up to Top 10 this season and had some of the most fun I have had in awhile. Of course, I play a little more DPS and roaming oriented than you do, but I actually was forced to make sure home was ok for most games which meant fighting wars, eles, mesmers, thieves, etc and I came out on top or held long enough for the situation to change where I could get a + or I could leave - a big part of this was GS 4.

    Give it a shot,
    I think ranger is in a solid place. The new sword changes are sweet, the new GS change is actually good, I've seen viable boonbeasts, core rangers, and lb/gs soulbeasts as well. Game is in a pretty decent spot right now imo.

    I already read that and I get what Eura is saying. His muscle memory got messed up because of the auto change and he misses the GS4 throw.

    He's had to change the way he plays as a result of the changes and now he has to play much more conservatively because of the loss of defense/utility on greatsword.

    The full GS4 block could've been done prior to the nerfs by spamming jump. The only thing that changed was a bug that allowed some attacks to hit through the block if we were in the air. I mean, great, they fixed the bug but I'd much rather have the pre-nerf gs over the current one. It's much, much weaker than it was (and it wasn't even overpowered to begin with).

    I believe the loss of defense across the board is intentional , you forget that nerfs are coming to all the sidenoders you say to have troubles with. As @Eurantien.4632 and others have stated, the full gs4 block is much favoured over the supposed jump block trick, you are in the minority asking to revert the changes

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    Just played again and the melee changes are great hope they apply the new design philosophy to every weapon of every class

    The greatsword changes were a nerf in literally every way. The full duration block was easily done by spamming jump prior to the nerfs so essentially we lost out on Crippling Throw and the evade on gs autos. The knockback is even easier to dodge now and the evade is actually worthless because you're rooted in place and the duration is so short.

    Sword might feel more fluid simply because the forward leap is on 2 but it is straight up worse against any competent player.

    Yay great changes right? /s

    The ya block change is kinda lame with the root (i wish they would unroot that and whirling defense ranger really needs some better cleave), I really do agree with you there. Still feel like the removal of evade frame on auto is an overall good change for the game, I hope they continue to tone down the amount of I frames in the game. And judging but there patch preview I think they are going to.

    as for the sword having an instant forward leap is so good dor chasing down targets, Since the original sword auto rework I hated how sword felt as it seemed only good for defensive plays.

    Now thinking about it more i really wish they had put that dev time into dagger mh, torch offhand, and druid overall (boy does it feel lame now to play in PvP)

    I don't know what types of players you're fighting but greatsword ranger already had losing matchups against all of the current side noders: Holo, SPB, Weaver, Symbolbrand, etc. etc. prior to the nerfs especially against players that know how to play their specs properly like Helio or Grimjack.

    Losing the greatsword auto evades means we flat out do not have any staying power on node when using our primary melee weaponset in both team fights and 1v1s. It was a horrible change considering this classes' spot in the previous and current meta.

    @Cal Cohen.2358 please add the evades on the greatsword autos back. Yes, we lost a ridiculous amount of utility with the removal of Crippling Throw (ie. cripple to prevent people from running away/chasing allies/getting to a point too fast for us to prevent a decap/projectile finisher that can blind when coupled with Smokescale F2) that you guys decided was perfectly fine to take away from us, but the loss of gs evades hurt the weapon more than anything else. The ability to survive on greatsword went from B+ tier to D at best. Good players can punish the non evade frames on Swoop consistently with interrupts to prevent the mobility and simply kiting away from the Counterattack prevents the knockback from landing. Our autos are essentially useless filler damage now and the entire weapon revolves around landing Mauls and running away with a "new" full duration block (that we had prior to the nerfs by spamming jump) into a potential Hilt Bash and more Mauls.

    You guys turned an incredibly fun, balanced weapon that rangers' have had since release into a one-dimensional shadow of it's former self. There's barely any distinction between the way a new player uses this weapon compared to an experienced one because you guys decided to nullify nearly all of the outplay potential whilst simultaneously lowering the skill ceiling to the skill floor.

    This is the answer you seek

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    HEY MAN!

    Ranger is FIRE right now! Seriously. The GS auto evade nerf SUCKS and there are times where I eat prime light beams or full power mes shatters or something because I am mid "ENDURING STAB" and thinking it's still gonna let me evade. The nerf of GS throw SUCKS and it's pretty brutal not being able to chase someone down without it. Or being able to swap, throw it in, and then come in with swoop or smokescale assault....

    What this has meant for me, is I have to be more opportunistic with when I go into the fight, and since it's no longer as optimal to just swap to GS if they have CDs up and can just run away from me now that crippling throw is gone - and this is actually kind of a good thing, it makes ME play smarter imo.

    What we gained: GS 4. A three second block feels like an eternity, yeah we could auto GS evade for about 3s, and we had the block that we could use to kite and whatnot, but this FEELS way longer and gives a nice reprieve from the mental speed gymnastics you'd have to do on ranger before when your counterattack got triggered. On top of that, the Counterattack kick now hitting 3 targets is actually major. I too was worried about mesmers and clones and whatnot, but being able to just straight up block everything for 3s and then cleave all the clones out in front of you with an evade knockback is actually pretty sweet - and one of the main reasons why this skill turned out OK, even if I lament the losses of the other skills.

    I solo queued up to Top 10 this season and had some of the most fun I have had in awhile. Of course, I play a little more DPS and roaming oriented than you do, but I actually was forced to make sure home was ok for most games which meant fighting wars, eles, mesmers, thieves, etc and I came out on top or held long enough for the situation to change where I could get a + or I could leave - a big part of this was GS 4.

    Give it a shot,
    I think ranger is in a solid place. The new sword changes are sweet, the new GS change is actually good, I've seen viable boonbeasts, core rangers, and lb/gs soulbeasts as well. Game is in a pretty decent spot right now imo.

    I already read that and I get what Eura is saying. His muscle memory got messed up because of the auto change and he misses the GS4 throw.

    He's had to change the way he plays as a result of the changes and now he has to play much more conservatively because of the loss of defense/utility on greatsword.

    The full GS4 block could've been done prior to the nerfs by spamming jump. The only thing that changed was a bug that allowed some attacks to hit through the block if we were in the air. I mean, great, they fixed the bug but I'd much rather have the pre-nerf gs over the current one. It's much, much weaker than it was (and it wasn't even overpowered to begin with).

    I believe the loss of defense across the board is intentional , you forget that nerfs are coming to all the sidenoders you say to have troubles with. As @Eurantien.4632 and others have stated, the full gs4 block is much favoured over the supposed jump block trick, you are in the minority asking to revert the changes

    I can guarantee that anyone who was comfortable with greatsword before the patch prefers the previous iteration over the current.

    Pressing spacebar a few times to get the full block duration isn't mind-bogglingly difficult.

    Damage is way higher at the moment because it's a burst meta. You need higher defense to survive but ranger gs staying power just got gutted.

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    Always felt that the evade on Gs auto compensated for the fact that ranger dont have traits like many classes have to do dmg on evade (warrior, engineer)
    With The last few pathches ranger and soul beast have been nerfed quite hard ( Long bow , unblockables, Sword and GS ) And it never where any thing close to Holo or Mirage.
    Why ranger gets nerfed so hard when the TOP roamers gets very light nerfs is....
    Only nerf I can see is good for the whole game mode (wvw) is long bow as the range makes it a toxic weapon in wvw due to ist superior range over all other, but cant help to think they should have done something about the range and not the dmg witch is wet noodle lvl.

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    In my opinion the new GS is better in 1v1 but lost all staying power in team play :(

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sansar.1302 said:
    Always felt that the evade on Gs auto compensated for the fact that ranger dont have traits like many classes have to do dmg on evade (warrior, engineer)
    With The last few pathches ranger and soul beast have been nerfed quite hard ( Long bow , unblockables, Sword and GS ) And it never where any thing close to Holo or Mirage.
    Why ranger gets nerfed so hard when the TOP roamers gets very light nerfs is....
    Only nerf I can see is good for the whole game mode (wvw) is long bow as the range makes it a toxic weapon in wvw due to ist superior range over all other, but cant help to think they should have done something about the range and not the dmg witch is wet noodle lvl.
    In my opinion the new GS is better in 1v1 but lost all staying power in team play :(

    It's worse in 1v1s too. The staying power in team play is basically nonexistent at this point.

    I mean, it's usable, but in terms of what we need to do in fights (especially on node in Conquest) it's way weaker than it used to be.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    I got a question what about that attack that has the bear animation.

    Was that attack from the GS because its GS nerfed as well? Maul says its number 2 on GS

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • @Axl.8924 said:
    I got a question what about that attack that has the bear animation.

    Was that attack from the GS because its GS nerfed as well? Maul says its number 2 on GS

    Maul wasn't changed directly but Sic 'em was nerfed down to 25% dmg and unblockable got shafted too. It deals only 2-3k dmg itself, it was the dmg modifiers along with other conditional traits that resulted in massive crits you know of.
    Now you can kinda do that with core ranger too but the dmg is split between the pet and ranger and to proc moment of clarity+remorseless you need to interrupt with either GS4 of GS5. This is kinda hard as we dont have the staying power we previously had with AA evade.
    Also, Maul has one of the biggest tells in the game so it's easily blocked with aegis/blinded or any other counterplay.

    GS would do a lot better if stab/stun breakers were not as common as the whole concept of ranger GS now is burst/CC based.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    Well, that's really sad.

    How are you supposed to kill someone with a 2-3k maul? wow t hats pretty pitiful.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    Just played again and the melee changes are great hope they apply the new design philosophy to every weapon of every class

    The greatsword changes were a nerf in literally every way. The full duration block was easily done by spamming jump prior to the nerfs so essentially we lost out on Crippling Throw and the evade on gs autos. The knockback is even easier to dodge now and the evade is actually worthless because you're rooted in place and the duration is so short.

    Sword might feel more fluid simply because the forward leap is on 2 but it is straight up worse against any competent player.

    Yay great changes right? /s

    The ya block change is kinda lame with the root (i wish they would unroot that and whirling defense ranger really needs some better cleave), I really do agree with you there. Still feel like the removal of evade frame on auto is an overall good change for the game, I hope they continue to tone down the amount of I frames in the game. And judging but there patch preview I think they are going to.

    as for the sword having an instant forward leap is so good dor chasing down targets, Since the original sword auto rework I hated how sword felt as it seemed only good for defensive plays.

    Now thinking about it more i really wish they had put that dev time into dagger mh, torch offhand, and druid overall (boy does it feel lame now to play in PvP)

    I don't know what types of players you're fighting but greatsword ranger already had losing matchups against all of the current side noders: Holo, SPB, Weaver, Symbolbrand, etc. etc. prior to the nerfs especially against players that know how to play their specs properly like Helio or Grimjack.

    Losing the greatsword auto evades means we flat out do not have any staying power on node when using our primary melee weaponset in both team fights and 1v1s. It was a horrible change considering this classes' spot in the previous and current meta.

    @Cal Cohen.2358 please add the evades on the greatsword autos back. Yes, we lost a ridiculous amount of utility with the removal of Crippling Throw (ie. cripple to prevent people from running away/chasing allies/getting to a point too fast for us to prevent a decap/projectile finisher that can blind when coupled with Smokescale F2) that you guys decided was perfectly fine to take away from us, but the loss of gs evades hurt the weapon more than anything else. The ability to survive on greatsword went from B+ tier to D at best. Good players can punish the non evade frames on Swoop consistently with interrupts to prevent the mobility and simply kiting away from the Counterattack prevents the knockback from landing. Our autos are essentially useless filler damage now and the entire weapon revolves around landing Mauls and running away with a "new" full duration block (that we had prior to the nerfs by spamming jump) into a potential Hilt Bash and more Mauls.

    You guys turned an incredibly fun, balanced weapon that rangers' have had since release into a one-dimensional shadow of it's former self. There's barely any distinction between the way a new player uses this weapon compared to an experienced one because you guys decided to nullify nearly all of the outplay potential whilst simultaneously lowering the skill ceiling to the skill floor.

    This is the answer you seek

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    HEY MAN!

    Ranger is FIRE right now! Seriously. The GS auto evade nerf SUCKS and there are times where I eat prime light beams or full power mes shatters or something because I am mid "ENDURING STAB" and thinking it's still gonna let me evade. The nerf of GS throw SUCKS and it's pretty brutal not being able to chase someone down without it. Or being able to swap, throw it in, and then come in with swoop or smokescale assault....

    What this has meant for me, is I have to be more opportunistic with when I go into the fight, and since it's no longer as optimal to just swap to GS if they have CDs up and can just run away from me now that crippling throw is gone - and this is actually kind of a good thing, it makes ME play smarter imo.

    What we gained: GS 4. A three second block feels like an eternity, yeah we could auto GS evade for about 3s, and we had the block that we could use to kite and whatnot, but this FEELS way longer and gives a nice reprieve from the mental speed gymnastics you'd have to do on ranger before when your counterattack got triggered. On top of that, the Counterattack kick now hitting 3 targets is actually major. I too was worried about mesmers and clones and whatnot, but being able to just straight up block everything for 3s and then cleave all the clones out in front of you with an evade knockback is actually pretty sweet - and one of the main reasons why this skill turned out OK, even if I lament the losses of the other skills.

    I solo queued up to Top 10 this season and had some of the most fun I have had in awhile. Of course, I play a little more DPS and roaming oriented than you do, but I actually was forced to make sure home was ok for most games which meant fighting wars, eles, mesmers, thieves, etc and I came out on top or held long enough for the situation to change where I could get a + or I could leave - a big part of this was GS 4.

    Give it a shot,
    I think ranger is in a solid place. The new sword changes are sweet, the new GS change is actually good, I've seen viable boonbeasts, core rangers, and lb/gs soulbeasts as well. Game is in a pretty decent spot right now imo.

    I already read that and I get what Eura is saying. His muscle memory got messed up because of the auto change and he misses the GS4 throw.

    He's had to change the way he plays as a result of the changes and now he has to play much more conservatively because of the loss of defense/utility on greatsword.

    The full GS4 block could've been done prior to the nerfs by spamming jump. The only thing that changed was a bug that allowed some attacks to hit through the block if we were in the air. I mean, great, they fixed the bug but I'd much rather have the pre-nerf gs over the current one. It's much, much weaker than it was (and it wasn't even overpowered to begin with).

    I believe the loss of defense across the board is intentional , you forget that nerfs are coming to all the sidenoders you say to have troubles with. As @Eurantien.4632 and others have stated, the full gs4 block is much favoured over the supposed jump block trick, you are in the minority asking to revert the changes

    I can guarantee that anyone who was comfortable with greatsword before the patch prefers the previous iteration over the current.

    Pressing spacebar a few times to get the full block duration isn't mind-bogglingly difficult.

    Damage is way higher at the moment because it's a burst meta. You need higher defense to survive but ranger gs staying power just got gutted.

    It's not mind-bogglingly diffulcult..it's unnecessarily difficult given how other professions with access to block , don't have to press spacebar repeateadly.

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Atronach.8520 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I got a question what about that attack that has the bear animation.

    Was that attack from the GS because its GS nerfed as well? Maul says its number 2 on GS

    Maul wasn't changed directly but Sic 'em was nerfed down to 25% dmg and unblockable got shafted too. It deals only 2-3k dmg itself, it was the dmg modifiers along with other conditional traits that resulted in massive crits you know of.
    Now you can kinda do that with core ranger too but the dmg is split between the pet and ranger and to proc moment of clarity+remorseless you need to interrupt with either GS4 of GS5. This is kinda hard as we dont have the staying power we previously had with AA evade.
    Also, Maul has one of the biggest tells in the game so it's easily blocked with aegis/blinded or any other counterplay.

    GS would do a lot better if stab/stun breakers were not as common as the whole concept of ranger GS now is burst/CC based.

    Why would I force myself into a melee brawl situation with a ranger when I can choose to play safely from range? My staying power comes from the fact that I can switch between melee and ranged option on the fly and be equally effective...if I want the "staying power" of a warrior or a guardian, I would play one and that I believe is the same reasoning of the devs.

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2019

    I still haven't gotten over the evade remove from the auto-chain. Muscle memory's a beach, lol.

    Anyways, the GS4 change, as it currently stands, is a buff to ranger. The retaliative kick, however, feels extremely bad. The aftercast is massive and because it's a knockback and not knockdown (why?), it has immense anti-synergy with Maul and Hilt Bash.

    Current ranger gameplay effectively has GS as your defensive play option, with focus on staying at range and relying on your pet for pressure. Kinda silly, and not exactly the direction I want to see ranger headed into.

    @Sansar.1302 said:
    In my opinion the new GS is better in 1v1 but lost all staying power in team play :(

    Pretty much.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    It's not mind-bogglingly diffulcult..it's unnecessarily difficult given how other professions with access to block , don't have to press spacebar repeateadly.

    It's not difficult at all. I'm glad the block lasts the full duration now, but the loss of Crippling Throw and the auto evade are extremely heavy nerfs on a weapon that wasn't even an issue to begin with.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
    I still haven't gotten over the evade remove from the auto-chain. Muscle memory's a beach, lol.

    A lot of experienced rangers had 7 years of muscle memory using the greatsword auto evade. It's kitten stupid man.

    @Cal Cohen.2358 I cannot believe you guys actually thought removing it was a good idea.

  • Fluffball.8307Fluffball.8307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Every time I try to come back I see something like this.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2019

    @Fluffball.8307 said:
    Every time I try to come back I see something like this.

    I'm still pissed man. Ranger wasn't in a good place before the last balance patch but Anet being Anet decides to keep slapping us with nerfs just like they did with Druid.

    @Cal Cohen.2358 Removing Crippling Throw and the greatsword auto evade were mistakes. Just like when you guys decided to nerf ranger Shouts by turning them into Command skills for no kitten reason. Just like when you guys decided to completely butcher Druid patch after patch even though it was already a 1 spamming shell of it's former self.

    There is literally no reason to use the greatsword autos anymore. Now they're filler damage at most and you'll get punished heavily for even attempting to use the 3/4s cast time Power Stab against any remotely competent player. 15 endurance gained is an absolutely pathetic attempt at remedying what you took away. Way to rub salt in the wounds YOU created.

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Fluffball.8307 said:
    Every time I try to come back I see something like this.

    I'm still pissed man. Ranger wasn't in a good place before the last balance patch but Anet being Anet decides to keep slapping us with nerfs just like they did with Druid.

    @Cal Cohen.2358 Removing Crippling Throw and the greatsword auto evade were mistakes. Just like when you guys decided to nerf ranger Shouts by turning them into Command skills for no kitten reason. Just like when you guys decided to completely butcher Druid patch after patch even though it was already a 1 spamming shell of it's former self.

    There is literally no reason to use the greatsword autos anymore. Now they're filler damage at most and you'll get punished heavily for even attempting to use the 3/4s cast time Power Stab against any remotely competent player. 15 endurance gained is an absolutely pathetic attempt at remedying what you took away. Way to rub salt in the wounds YOU created.

    Yes, considering how rarely you'll be able to pull the entire chain off w/o being punished, the 15 endurance is meaningless compared to Natural Vigor.

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Atronach.8520 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I got a question what about that attack that has the bear animation.

    Was that attack from the GS because its GS nerfed as well? Maul says its number 2 on GS

    Maul wasn't changed directly but Sic 'em was nerfed down to 25% dmg and unblockable got shafted too. It deals only 2-3k dmg itself, it was the dmg modifiers along with other conditional traits that resulted in massive crits you know of.
    Now you can kinda do that with core ranger too but the dmg is split between the pet and ranger and to proc moment of clarity+remorseless you need to interrupt with either GS4 of GS5. This is kinda hard as we dont have the staying power we previously had with AA evade.
    Also, Maul has one of the biggest tells in the game so it's easily blocked with aegis/blinded or any other counterplay.

    GS would do a lot better if stab/stun breakers were not as common as the whole concept of ranger GS now is burst/CC based.

    Why would I force myself into a melee brawl situation with a ranger when I can choose to play safely from range? My staying power comes from the fact that I can switch between melee and ranged option on the fly and be equally effective...if I want the "staying power" of a warrior or a guardian, I would play one and that I believe is the same reasoning of the devs.

    I find staying in range harder to do the higher the skill rating is. Good players wont let you freecast from 1.5k range away often and such builds which can get in close to you and force you into GS are usually way to counter the ranger. Cause aside from full 3s block(which I find more convenient now btw but still it was possible before with jumping) you don't have much going on to stay in fight. Also, much more difficult to hold node now. So you're usually forced to disengage while in GS and try to one shot in between.

    Good players like Eurantien can pull that combo more often which is why they still find the success, but it's usually hit or miss type skillset. So I don't think you're equally effective in LB and in GS - LB is much more consistent with dmg if you can use no port spots and kite. However the amount of reflects/shields atm reduce the effectiveness of the weapon overall. You used to swap to GS in there before, but now you can't really stay in teamfights for more than 5 sec. Hence my remarks.
    I don't want to play like a warrior as well, I'm not comparing classes instead I'm comparing effectiveness of the spec compared to other specs in its role.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fluffball.8307 said:
    Every time I try to come back I see something like this.

    Ah, what a great timing you have, maybe they implement all those changes to keep you away.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    The evade on 3rd auto could, and I feel should, be returned considering the amount of damage being eaten while in melee. I’m personally ok with counter kick on 4, because I use a ranged weapon too, but to each their own.

    What do you generally run for secondary weapons on your greatsword build? What pets do you use when specced into Soulbeast?

    The new kick is significantly worse than the old one. All it has going for it is the very short evade.

    I use LB/GS and Smokescale/Gazelle.

    I know you didn't say it, but trust me, it's not a L2P issue on my part.

    Also, core ranger basically got gutted this patch as well. Playing it successfully at a high level involved using the GS auto evades and Crippling Throw ON PURPOSE (no RNG!) to survive and kill people.

    It was admittedly too strong for an AA chain imo.. I've just retrained muscle memory to evade manually. It hasn't gotten me into any trouble yet.. and the block changes make up for everything imo. Much more solid now. I've been asking for that for a while. But it is a shame the throw is gone.

    I can't speak for core ranger but when on slb I think it was too op.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2019

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    The evade on 3rd auto could, and I feel should, be returned considering the amount of damage being eaten while in melee. I’m personally ok with counter kick on 4, because I use a ranged weapon too, but to each their own.

    What do you generally run for secondary weapons on your greatsword build? What pets do you use when specced into Soulbeast?

    The new kick is significantly worse than the old one. All it has going for it is the very short evade.

    I use LB/GS and Smokescale/Gazelle.

    I know you didn't say it, but trust me, it's not a L2P issue on my part.

    Also, core ranger basically got gutted this patch as well. Playing it successfully at a high level involved using the GS auto evades and Crippling Throw ON PURPOSE (no RNG!) to survive and kill people.

    It was admittedly too strong for an AA chain imo.. I've just retrained muscle memory to evade manually. It hasn't gotten me into any trouble yet.. and the block changes make up for everything imo. Much more solid now. I've been asking for that for a while. But it is a shame the throw is gone.

    I can't speak for core ranger but when on slb I think it was too op.

    They should've just made it so you couldn't cast the third part of the chain multiple times. The evade was the reason why the 3/4 cast time was justified especially considering it doesn't even do that much damage.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    The evade on 3rd auto could, and I feel should, be returned considering the amount of damage being eaten while in melee. I’m personally ok with counter kick on 4, because I use a ranged weapon too, but to each their own.

    What do you generally run for secondary weapons on your greatsword build? What pets do you use when specced into Soulbeast?

    The new kick is significantly worse than the old one. All it has going for it is the very short evade.

    I use LB/GS and Smokescale/Gazelle.

    I know you didn't say it, but trust me, it's not a L2P issue on my part.

    Also, core ranger basically got gutted this patch as well. Playing it successfully at a high level involved using the GS auto evades and Crippling Throw ON PURPOSE (no RNG!) to survive and kill people.

    It was admittedly too strong for an AA chain imo.. I've just retrained muscle memory to evade manually. It hasn't gotten me into any trouble yet.. and the block changes make up for everything imo. Much more solid now. I've been asking for that for a while. But it is a shame the throw is gone.

    I can't speak for core ranger but when on slb I think it was too op.

    They should've just made it so you couldn't cast the third part of the chain multiple times. The evade was the reason why the 3/4 cast time was justified especially considering it doesn't even do that much damage.

    Pretty sure power stab is like 75% of maul dmg... Yeah I would like it if they didn't remove evade, but gs is still really strong melee weapon tbh. The block change makes gs feel stronger than it was before tbh but that's just me.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    The evade on 3rd auto could, and I feel should, be returned considering the amount of damage being eaten while in melee. I’m personally ok with counter kick on 4, because I use a ranged weapon too, but to each their own.

    What do you generally run for secondary weapons on your greatsword build? What pets do you use when specced into Soulbeast?

    The new kick is significantly worse than the old one. All it has going for it is the very short evade.

    I use LB/GS and Smokescale/Gazelle.

    I know you didn't say it, but trust me, it's not a L2P issue on my part.

    Also, core ranger basically got gutted this patch as well. Playing it successfully at a high level involved using the GS auto evades and Crippling Throw ON PURPOSE (no RNG!) to survive and kill people.

    It was admittedly too strong for an AA chain imo.. I've just retrained muscle memory to evade manually. It hasn't gotten me into any trouble yet.. and the block changes make up for everything imo. Much more solid now. I've been asking for that for a while. But it is a shame the throw is gone.

    I can't speak for core ranger but when on slb I think it was too op.

    They should've just made it so you couldn't cast the third part of the chain multiple times. The evade was the reason why the 3/4 cast time was justified especially considering it doesn't even do that much damage.

    Pretty sure power stab is like 75% of maul dmg... Yeah I would like it if they didn't remove evade, but gs is still really strong melee weapon tbh. The block change makes gs feel stronger than it was before tbh but that's just me.

    It's usable but has a lot less utility with the loss of auto evades and crippling throw. You're not wrong but I definitely prefer the old version we had for literally 7 years since release. Messed up my muscle memory pretty badly and the weapon was pretty balanced with a low skill floor and high skill ceiling.

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    The evade on 3rd auto could, and I feel should, be returned considering the amount of damage being eaten while in melee. I’m personally ok with counter kick on 4, because I use a ranged weapon too, but to each their own.

    What do you generally run for secondary weapons on your greatsword build? What pets do you use when specced into Soulbeast?

    The new kick is significantly worse than the old one. All it has going for it is the very short evade.

    I use LB/GS and Smokescale/Gazelle.

    I know you didn't say it, but trust me, it's not a L2P issue on my part.

    Also, core ranger basically got gutted this patch as well. Playing it successfully at a high level involved using the GS auto evades and Crippling Throw ON PURPOSE (no RNG!) to survive and kill people.

    It was admittedly too strong for an AA chain imo.. I've just retrained muscle memory to evade manually. It hasn't gotten me into any trouble yet.. and the block changes make up for everything imo. Much more solid now. I've been asking for that for a while. But it is a shame the throw is gone.

    I can't speak for core ranger but when on slb I think it was too op.

    They should've just made it so you couldn't cast the third part of the chain multiple times. The evade was the reason why the 3/4 cast time was justified especially considering it doesn't even do that much damage.

    Pretty sure power stab is like 75% of maul dmg... Yeah I would like it if they didn't remove evade, but gs is still really strong melee weapon tbh. The block change makes gs feel stronger than it was before tbh but that's just me.

    It's usable but has a lot less utility with the loss of auto evades and crippling throw. You're not wrong but I definitely prefer the old version we had for literally 7 years since release. Messed up my muscle memory pretty badly and the weapon was pretty balanced with a low skill floor and high skill ceiling.

    GS where hit hard and now I dont think ranger is a viable roamer or 1v1 vs same skill (still get 15+ kill streak wvw solo everyday)
    Mostly roaming on my Reaper now :(

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2019

    It seems okay to me, its faster and more responsive and I was able to down entire groups of people at tower lords. People say the removed evades is weak but I find that I have plenty of dodges when using it, especially with Vigor up.

    Its far more responsive than any 2H weapon I've seen, almost feels like a 1H Sword.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest(PvE), Terakura/Spellbreaker & Kitty Koume/Reaper(WvW) | ♀♥♀

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    It seems okay to me, its faster and more responsive and I was able to down entire groups of people at tower lords. People say the removed evades is weak but I find that I have plenty of dodges when using it, especially with Vigor up.

    Its far more responsive than any 2H weapon I've seen, almost feels like a 1H Sword.

    Faster? the speed where never changed, only removal of the evade that have been there since start of game, only a nerf no compensation :(

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2019

    Greatsword is just different. It's fine. Our best weapon in PvP in my opinion.

    The problem is... it's 100% getting nerfed again... that nerf is gonna hurt.

    Complaining won't bring the evade on autoattack back. But something better than 15 endurance would be appreciated.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    The evade on 3rd auto could, and I feel should, be returned considering the amount of damage being eaten while in melee. I’m personally ok with counter kick on 4, because I use a ranged weapon too, but to each their own.

    What do you generally run for secondary weapons on your greatsword build? What pets do you use when specced into Soulbeast?

    The new kick is significantly worse than the old one. All it has going for it is the very short evade.

    I use LB/GS and Smokescale/Gazelle.

    I know you didn't say it, but trust me, it's not a L2P issue on my part.

    Also, core ranger basically got gutted this patch as well. Playing it successfully at a high level involved using the GS auto evades and Crippling Throw ON PURPOSE (no RNG!) to survive and kill people.

    It was admittedly too strong for an AA chain imo.. I've just retrained muscle memory to evade manually. It hasn't gotten me into any trouble yet.. and the block changes make up for everything imo. Much more solid now. I've been asking for that for a while. But it is a shame the throw is gone.

    I can't speak for core ranger but when on slb I think it was too op.

    They should've just made it so you couldn't cast the third part of the chain multiple times. The evade was the reason why the 3/4 cast time was justified especially considering it doesn't even do that much damage.

    Pretty sure power stab is like 75% of maul dmg... Yeah I would like it if they didn't remove evade, but gs is still really strong melee weapon tbh. The block change makes gs feel stronger than it was before tbh but that's just me.

    It's usable but has a lot less utility with the loss of auto evades and crippling throw. You're not wrong but I definitely prefer the old version we had for literally 7 years since release. Messed up my muscle memory pretty badly and the weapon was pretty balanced with a low skill floor and high skill ceiling.

    Yea I agree. Crippling throw was super useful.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    The evade on 3rd auto could, and I feel should, be returned considering the amount of damage being eaten while in melee. I’m personally ok with counter kick on 4, because I use a ranged weapon too, but to each their own.

    What do you generally run for secondary weapons on your greatsword build? What pets do you use when specced into Soulbeast?

    The new kick is significantly worse than the old one. All it has going for it is the very short evade.

    I use LB/GS and Smokescale/Gazelle.

    I know you didn't say it, but trust me, it's not a L2P issue on my part.

    Also, core ranger basically got gutted this patch as well. Playing it successfully at a high level involved using the GS auto evades and Crippling Throw ON PURPOSE (no RNG!) to survive and kill people.

    It was admittedly too strong for an AA chain imo.. I've just retrained muscle memory to evade manually. It hasn't gotten me into any trouble yet.. and the block changes make up for everything imo. Much more solid now. I've been asking for that for a while. But it is a shame the throw is gone.

    I can't speak for core ranger but when on slb I think it was too op.

    They should've just made it so you couldn't cast the third part of the chain multiple times. The evade was the reason why the 3/4 cast time was justified especially considering it doesn't even do that much damage.

    Pretty sure power stab is like 75% of maul dmg... Yeah I would like it if they didn't remove evade, but gs is still really strong melee weapon tbh. The block change makes gs feel stronger than it was before tbh but that's just me.

    It's usable but has a lot less utility with the loss of auto evades and crippling throw. You're not wrong but I definitely prefer the old version we had for literally 7 years since release. Messed up my muscle memory pretty badly and the weapon was pretty balanced with a low skill floor and high skill ceiling.

    GS where hit hard and now I dont think ranger is a viable roamer or 1v1 vs same skill (still get 15+ kill streak wvw solo everyday)
    Mostly roaming on my Reaper now :(

    I've had no issues in solo roaming after this change. Only problem has been group fights where I needed crippling throw to stay on target. Now I get kited more easily. I would probably swap to rune of speed if I didn't play almost exclusively solo on my ranger. But in 1v1 slb is still one of the best specs tbh.

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2019

    that does not mean it preform any good

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2019

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Greatsword is just different. It's fine. Our best weapon in PvP in my opinion.

    The problem is... it's 100% getting nerfed again... that nerf is gonna hurt.

    Complaining won't bring the evade on autoattack back. But something better than 15 endurance would be appreciated.

    Yeah it's ok. I still prefer the older version ofc.

    What do you think about 50 endurance on hit? That way we get a full evade (.75s as opposed to the previous 1s that could be used up to 3x)

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Eurantien.4632 said:
    Greatsword is just different. It's fine. Our best weapon in PvP in my opinion.

    The problem is... it's 100% getting nerfed again... that nerf is gonna hurt.

    Complaining won't bring the evade on autoattack back. But something better than 15 endurance would be appreciated.

    Yeah it's ok. I still prefer the older version ofc.

    What do you think about 50 endurance on hit? That way we get a full evade (.75s as opposed to the previous 1s that could be used up to 3x)

    I don't know. The problem with GS auto is it is absolutely garbage on dps now. You're almost never getting the full chain off, you just don't have that kind of time to stand in the fray since you don't get the evade now to peel out. So if we buff it to 50 endurance, is it gonna help that much? I guess if I ran out of dodges and needed something?

    My concern is... with a tankier build like a/a gs paladins "boonbeast" type deal, all of a sudden you've got something that can stand in the fray long enough to get a full autochain off and reap the rewards. In this instance that would be a full endurance bar every 2-4 seconds (2s with quickness). That's now too powerful in my opinion.

    The evade was good before because while you were doing it, you were doing 0 dmg, which meant as a tank they were just doing whatever cause they know you had no follow up, and as a dps people didn't care cause now you were doing no dmg either and they can just follow up and try and melt you since you're so squishy as dps ranger. I'm not sure what the answer is.